Once again, I'd like to offer my thanks and congratulations to Microsoft for making something with an original UI and use style for once in their company's existence. I wish only for Windows Phone 7 to be made better.
Agreed. History shows that MS will make it better. Windows and IE both took multiple generations to pass muster.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Android as an iOS competitor isn't a stable future, and Apple needs SOMETHING in the way of professional competition to prevent monopoly whiners and keep innovation pushing forward.
Android is confronted with some issues and problems. But I wholeheartedly disagree that it isn't professional competition. I use it consistently (along with iOS) and really marvel at why people dismiss it.
I wish Microsoft success with the phone, but at the expense of Android, not Apple (provided Apple keeps innovating). I think Microsoft partnering with Nokia was a smart move, as most Android based phones are very cheaply made including the high end ones by Samsung, HTC, and Motorola. You just have to place one in your hand next to an iPhone to understand that. Nokia makes decent hardware. I kept a four year old Nokia phone alive on T-Mobile hoping for an iPhone announcement. Eventually I gave up and unlocked iPhones.
If WP does succeed, it will be at the expense of Android. Remember, iOS users tend to be far more loyal than users of other smartphone operating systems. Android has succeeded primarily because it emerged as "everyone else's" answer to the iPhone (while Symbian, BB, WebOS, MeeGo, etc. stalled, faded to oblivion, or failed to gain traction). I think Microsoft is hoping some phone makers become wary of Google's power and its acquisition of Motorola Mobility.
On the table side, everyone is hoping to succeed at the expense of Apple and/or grow the market. I think it will actually be more the latter (as the Kindle Fire has shown), but since Apple peaked at something like 68% of the (albeit small) market, it will be reported as the former. Interestingly, Microsoft is also blazing a different route from Google, positioning Windows 8 ARM, rather than Windows Phone, as their offering. It's a bit different from previous Windows tablet efforts (which had relied on the full blown x86 version of Windows).
Thank your sir. I figured you had some hands-on time with it. Your opinion means more with actual use, compared to some who seem to just parrot something they read once. Not anyone here of course.
Or people who just make stuff up about stuff they've never seen before, and hope no one else has either. Someone here, of course.
Agreed. History shows that MS will make it better. Windows and IE both took multiple generations to pass muster.
Before the release of Windows 3.1, Microsoft had DOS to fall back on. Developers kept on writing DOS software, and Microsoft kept selling DOS software. Developers and office workers stayed with Microsoft despite the lack of a decent graphical user interface. Windows 3.1 itself was essentially an app running on top of DOS. Microsoft was in no hurry to bang out a GUI-based OS. Money was rolling in from DOS sales.
But Microsoft has no OS to fall back on in either the smartphone space or the pad computing space. Yes, Gates and Ballmer have tried to hype Windows Slates. No, neither developers nor consumers actually noticed. Then Microsoft completely killed off Windows Mobile 6.x. There is no upgrade path from WinMob to WP7. No "migration assistant." No automated code translation tool. Windows Phone 7, from the end-user's point of view, is a 1.0 release. It's not an upgrade. It's an unproven, brand-new, incompatible, phone-only OS. With no market share.
You say that "History shows that MS will make it better." Well good for you. You and the rest of the world all know that it took Microsoft 3 hacks at Windows before it worked well enough to use. (I've seen a PC running Windows 2.0. It was hideous.) It took MS several hacks to move beyond Windows XP (Vista / W7.) So the market should, wisely, take a wait-and-see approach to Windows Phone. Wait a year or two to see how it turns out.
So maybe in 2014 the corporate IT departments of the Fortune 500 will have another look at Windows Phone. It will be interesting to see if Microsoft tries to keep Windows Phone alive that long. They way they tried to keep Zune alive years after its actual death on the market. Maybe they should have paid retail sales people $10 per Zune. That's what they're doing with Windows Phone handsets now. They've never had to do that with Windows PCs.
Oh, and by the way, IE still doesn't pass muster. It is successful only because it is the default browser on Windows.
I agree. WP7 is actually very nice, and is a legitimate iOS competitor, which blazed its own path rather than slavishly copying Apple. I think MS does indeed stand a decent chance, especially if they get some enterprise features working well (and the Office suite on it, maybe).
Unfortunately by blazing their own path MS is now years behind iOS and Android. Their chances of success got smaller every year. Right now they have a mountain to climb and the odds are against them.
Even enterprise features may not be enough. The days of corporate phones are disappearing. Instead employees are increasingly wanting to use their personal phones to connect to corporate email and calendars services which means corporate IT departments need to support iOS and Android devices.
The Metro UI also is a disadvantage as it prevents phone manufacturers from customizing the interface. An Htc Android phone looks different to a Samsung Android phone and they both looks different to a Motorola Android phone. That gives consumers a reason to buy one over the other. In contrast, all Windows phones look alike, just like all Windows PC look the same and we've seen what that means. The only real way to differentiate from the competition is price which kills profits.
Unfortunately by blazing their own path MS is now years behind iOS and Android. Their chances of success got smaller every year. Right now they have a mountain to climb and the odds are against them.
Even enterprise features may not be enough. The days of corporate phones are disappearing. Instead employees are increasingly wanting to use their personal phones to connect to corporate email and calendars services which means corporate IT departments need to support iOS and Android devices.
The Metro UI also is a disadvantage as it prevents phone manufacturers from customizing the interface. An Htc Android phone looks different to a Samsung Android phone and they both looks different to a Motorola Android phone. That gives consumers a reason to buy one over the other. In contrast, all Windows phones look alike, just like all Windows PC look the same and we've seen what that means. The only real way to differentiate from the competition is price which kills profits.
The days of being able to communicate with different networking pieces is not over. Google is basically a front man for the ad industry. Far more insidious than Microsoft has ever been.
You don't want the basic UI and OS to be different from Samsung to HTC to company x. If required Microsoft can always design and farm out manufacturing the phones. You certainly don't want a free for all with telecommunications as to what works with what device.
Microsoft has many things going for it. It has some depth in research, excellent server capabilities, infrastructure for connection media, a good games' platform that can be extended. Samsung, HTC, and the rest have very little depth in software design which is what matters. Google is all over the map and is basically a henchman for ads. It won't be long before Microsoft will be back and the two main platforms in mobile devices will be from Apple and Microsoft.
Once again, I'd like to offer my thanks and congratulations to Microsoft for making something with an original UI and use style for once in their company's existence. I wish only for Windows Phone 7 to be made better. Android as an iOS competitor isn't a stable future, and Apple needs SOMETHING in the way of professional competition to prevent monopoly whiners and keep innovation pushing forward.
i find it hilarious that many pundits continually exhort Apple to "compete" with other companies nipping at their heels, when quite clearly it's the opposite, as evidenced by this article and just the fact that Google came up with Android.
Steve was about shattering paradigms to create new markets. Period. Whether this continues without him will be anybody's guess. Perhaps Scott Forstall can pick up the mantle. One can hope.
Anyone else who hope to follow is just lapping up leftovers from the table.
As much as Windows Phone might have going for it, I feel it biggest stumbling block is that it seems too abstract. People are visual and often stumble if something is hard to visualise. If they could somehow address that, then it may have a bigger chance. The iPhone and too some extent Android succeed because the whole experience is very visual.
You don't want the basic UI and OS to be different from Samsung to HTC to company x.
Unless companies can differentiate their products if gives consumers very little reason to choose between them apart from by price and then they don't make any money. Just look at the PC market. They all look the same so there is virtually no profit for manufacturers. The only company that can really make money is Apple which is also the only company that has really differentiated their computers.
It won't be long before Microsoft will be back and the two main platforms in mobile devices will be from Apple and Microsoft.
philip
LOL. Microsoft will continue to fail with the horrible Windows Phone until they are forced to throw in the towel. Billions in share holders value will be destroyed on the failure. I love watching this train wreck...couldn't happen to a better company than Microsoft.
Comments
?This boulder comprised of Apple and Blackberry rolled on our arm,? he said.
Too bad it wasn't his head!
Why is that funny?
Ha, I didn't even know MS had a mobile operating system or a Windows phone.
It may attract more flies than Flyface in the Dick Tracy comics (read POS).
Don't be so harsh on yourself as to laugh at your own lack of knowledge.
Once again, I'd like to offer my thanks and congratulations to Microsoft for making something with an original UI and use style for once in their company's existence. I wish only for Windows Phone 7 to be made better.
Agreed. History shows that MS will make it better. Windows and IE both took multiple generations to pass muster.
Android as an iOS competitor isn't a stable future, and Apple needs SOMETHING in the way of professional competition to prevent monopoly whiners and keep innovation pushing forward.
Android is confronted with some issues and problems. But I wholeheartedly disagree that it isn't professional competition. I use it consistently (along with iOS) and really marvel at why people dismiss it.
After first bouncing off Ballmer's head.
I wish Microsoft success with the phone, but at the expense of Android, not Apple (provided Apple keeps innovating). I think Microsoft partnering with Nokia was a smart move, as most Android based phones are very cheaply made including the high end ones by Samsung, HTC, and Motorola. You just have to place one in your hand next to an iPhone to understand that. Nokia makes decent hardware. I kept a four year old Nokia phone alive on T-Mobile hoping for an iPhone announcement. Eventually I gave up and unlocked iPhones.
If WP does succeed, it will be at the expense of Android. Remember, iOS users tend to be far more loyal than users of other smartphone operating systems. Android has succeeded primarily because it emerged as "everyone else's" answer to the iPhone (while Symbian, BB, WebOS, MeeGo, etc. stalled, faded to oblivion, or failed to gain traction). I think Microsoft is hoping some phone makers become wary of Google's power and its acquisition of Motorola Mobility.
On the table side, everyone is hoping to succeed at the expense of Apple and/or grow the market. I think it will actually be more the latter (as the Kindle Fire has shown), but since Apple peaked at something like 68% of the (albeit small) market, it will be reported as the former. Interestingly, Microsoft is also blazing a different route from Google, positioning Windows 8 ARM, rather than Windows Phone, as their offering. It's a bit different from previous Windows tablet efforts (which had relied on the full blown x86 version of Windows).
Don't be so harsh on yourself as to laugh at your own lack of knowledge.
I had enough knowledge in 1985 to buy my first mac rather than a machine running MS OS.
And ... never owned a PC. In another 10 years my grandkids will be asking me "PaPa, what's a Windows Phone?"
?This boulder comprised of Apple and Blackberry rolled on our arm,? he said. ?Microsoft sat there for three or four years struggling to get out.?
Unfortunately for Microsoft, cutting off that arm doesn't guarantee survival.
And, either way, that arm is dead forever.
Huh.
Thank your sir. I figured you had some hands-on time with it. Your opinion means more with actual use, compared to some who seem to just parrot something they read once. Not anyone here of course.
Or people who just make stuff up about stuff they've never seen before, and hope no one else has either. Someone here, of course.
Agreed. History shows that MS will make it better. Windows and IE both took multiple generations to pass muster.
Before the release of Windows 3.1, Microsoft had DOS to fall back on. Developers kept on writing DOS software, and Microsoft kept selling DOS software. Developers and office workers stayed with Microsoft despite the lack of a decent graphical user interface. Windows 3.1 itself was essentially an app running on top of DOS. Microsoft was in no hurry to bang out a GUI-based OS. Money was rolling in from DOS sales.
But Microsoft has no OS to fall back on in either the smartphone space or the pad computing space. Yes, Gates and Ballmer have tried to hype Windows Slates. No, neither developers nor consumers actually noticed. Then Microsoft completely killed off Windows Mobile 6.x. There is no upgrade path from WinMob to WP7. No "migration assistant." No automated code translation tool. Windows Phone 7, from the end-user's point of view, is a 1.0 release. It's not an upgrade. It's an unproven, brand-new, incompatible, phone-only OS. With no market share.
You say that "History shows that MS will make it better." Well good for you. You and the rest of the world all know that it took Microsoft 3 hacks at Windows before it worked well enough to use. (I've seen a PC running Windows 2.0. It was hideous.) It took MS several hacks to move beyond Windows XP (Vista / W7.) So the market should, wisely, take a wait-and-see approach to Windows Phone. Wait a year or two to see how it turns out.
So maybe in 2014 the corporate IT departments of the Fortune 500 will have another look at Windows Phone. It will be interesting to see if Microsoft tries to keep Windows Phone alive that long. They way they tried to keep Zune alive years after its actual death on the market. Maybe they should have paid retail sales people $10 per Zune. That's what they're doing with Windows Phone handsets now. They've never had to do that with Windows PCs.
Oh, and by the way, IE still doesn't pass muster. It is successful only because it is the default browser on Windows.
I agree. WP7 is actually very nice, and is a legitimate iOS competitor, which blazed its own path rather than slavishly copying Apple. I think MS does indeed stand a decent chance, especially if they get some enterprise features working well (and the Office suite on it, maybe).
Unfortunately by blazing their own path MS is now years behind iOS and Android. Their chances of success got smaller every year. Right now they have a mountain to climb and the odds are against them.
Even enterprise features may not be enough. The days of corporate phones are disappearing. Instead employees are increasingly wanting to use their personal phones to connect to corporate email and calendars services which means corporate IT departments need to support iOS and Android devices.
The Metro UI also is a disadvantage as it prevents phone manufacturers from customizing the interface. An Htc Android phone looks different to a Samsung Android phone and they both looks different to a Motorola Android phone. That gives consumers a reason to buy one over the other. In contrast, all Windows phones look alike, just like all Windows PC look the same and we've seen what that means. The only real way to differentiate from the competition is price which kills profits.
no surprise here. everything microsoft does is in response to what apple does. why should their copy of the iphone be any different?
That just is not true.
philip
Unfortunately by blazing their own path MS is now years behind iOS and Android. Their chances of success got smaller every year. Right now they have a mountain to climb and the odds are against them.
Even enterprise features may not be enough. The days of corporate phones are disappearing. Instead employees are increasingly wanting to use their personal phones to connect to corporate email and calendars services which means corporate IT departments need to support iOS and Android devices.
The Metro UI also is a disadvantage as it prevents phone manufacturers from customizing the interface. An Htc Android phone looks different to a Samsung Android phone and they both looks different to a Motorola Android phone. That gives consumers a reason to buy one over the other. In contrast, all Windows phones look alike, just like all Windows PC look the same and we've seen what that means. The only real way to differentiate from the competition is price which kills profits.
The days of being able to communicate with different networking pieces is not over. Google is basically a front man for the ad industry. Far more insidious than Microsoft has ever been.
You don't want the basic UI and OS to be different from Samsung to HTC to company x. If required Microsoft can always design and farm out manufacturing the phones. You certainly don't want a free for all with telecommunications as to what works with what device.
Microsoft has many things going for it. It has some depth in research, excellent server capabilities, infrastructure for connection media, a good games' platform that can be extended. Samsung, HTC, and the rest have very little depth in software design which is what matters. Google is all over the map and is basically a henchman for ads. It won't be long before Microsoft will be back and the two main platforms in mobile devices will be from Apple and Microsoft.
philip
Once again, I'd like to offer my thanks and congratulations to Microsoft for making something with an original UI and use style for once in their company's existence. I wish only for Windows Phone 7 to be made better. Android as an iOS competitor isn't a stable future, and Apple needs SOMETHING in the way of professional competition to prevent monopoly whiners and keep innovation pushing forward.
i find it hilarious that many pundits continually exhort Apple to "compete" with other companies nipping at their heels, when quite clearly it's the opposite, as evidenced by this article and just the fact that Google came up with Android.
Steve was about shattering paradigms to create new markets. Period. Whether this continues without him will be anybody's guess. Perhaps Scott Forstall can pick up the mantle. One can hope.
Anyone else who hope to follow is just lapping up leftovers from the table.
You don't want the basic UI and OS to be different from Samsung to HTC to company x.
Unless companies can differentiate their products if gives consumers very little reason to choose between them apart from by price and then they don't make any money. Just look at the PC market. They all look the same so there is virtually no profit for manufacturers. The only company that can really make money is Apple which is also the only company that has really differentiated their computers.
This was photo-shopped?
http://www.pclaunches.com/entry_imag...ourier-mod.jpg
yeah. the images display sure are.
It won't be long before Microsoft will be back and the two main platforms in mobile devices will be from Apple and Microsoft.
philip
LOL. Microsoft will continue to fail with the horrible Windows Phone until they are forced to throw in the towel. Billions in share holders value will be destroyed on the failure. I love watching this train wreck...couldn't happen to a better company than Microsoft.