Apple is first technology company to join Fair Labor Association

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  • Reply 21 of 26
    asciiascii Posts: 5,936member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Radar View Post


    ... I for one don't see any solid reason why capitalism can't coexist with a leftist outlook. Good on him, I say.



    But can a "save the world" mentality produce disruptive/industry changing products?



    No it can't, you need a subversive mindset for that, you need to want to uproot the existing order. That's why Steve cultivated a hippy (anti-establishment) mindset. Tim is cultivating a bleeding heart mindset.



    All action is ultimately preceded by thought and Tim is changing the thoughts, so how can the products not change? Of course culture does not change overnight, so hopefully there will be a few more years of good products.
  • Reply 22 of 26
    radarradar Posts: 271member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ascii View Post


    But can a "save the world" mentality produce disruptive/industry changing products?



    No it can't, you need a subversive mindset for that, you need to want to uproot the existing order. That's why Steve cultivated a hippy (anti-establishment) mindset. Tim is cultivating a bleeding heart mindset.



    All action is ultimately preceded by thought and Tim is changing the thoughts, so how can the products not change? Of course culture does not change overnight, so hopefully there will be a few more years of good products.



    I'm pretty sure that both 'designing cutting edge technology' and 'a saving the world minder' (your words, not mine) involve a 'subversive' mindset. They sure don't involve adherence to the status quo.

    ANd actually lots of action is preceded by not much thought at all, at least not much long range vision. You only need look at the so-called 'Arab Spring' (or a vote for Bush 2 vs. a vote for Bush 1, if you prefer) to see that.
  • Reply 23 of 26
    asciiascii Posts: 5,936member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Radar View Post


    I'm pretty sure that both 'designing cutting edge technology' and 'a saving the world minder' (your words, not mine) involve a 'subversive' mindset. They sure don't involve adherence to the status quo.



    A leftist outlook is very much the mainstream/status quo. It is the "default" culture that most companies inherit from the street, and is why most companies are not all that innovative. It's why Steve recognised the need to tailor a more subversive culture for his company. Tim is dragging Apple back to this more mainstream line, and along with it will go their innovation. He's not deliberately doing it, he's just being himself, but the CEO sets the tone, and the end result will be the same.



    Quote:

    ANd actually lots of action is preceded by not much thought at all, at least not much long range vision. You only need look at the so-called 'Arab Spring' (or a vote for Bush 2 vs. a vote for Bush 1, if you prefer) to see that.



    So let's see: Apple has a choice of action following from a bleeding heart mindset, or action following from no thought whatsoever. Nope, I don't see how either of those will lead to industry redefining products.
  • Reply 24 of 26
    radarradar Posts: 271member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ascii View Post


    A leftist outlook is very much the mainstream/status quo. It is the "default" culture that most companies inherit from the street, and is why most companies are not all that innovative. It's why Steve recognised the need to tailor a more subversive culture for his company. Tim is dragging Apple back to this more mainstream line, and along with it will go their innovation. He's not deliberately doing it, he's just being himself, but the CEO sets the tone, and the end result will be the same.







    So let's see: Apple has a choice of action following from a bleeding heart mindset, or action following from no thought whatsoever. Nope, I don't see how either of those will lead to industry redefining products.



    Uh, really? And when exactly was the last time a leftist president was elected to office in the US? If you say Obama's a leftist I'll simply have to crap my pants laughing. In American politics two parties dominate, Republicans (to the right of Attilla the Hun) and Democrats (Republican-Lite). (None of the above.)



    Looking at Apple's use of labor in tin-pot dictatorships like China, I hardly think you can call their corporate culture 'bleeding heart'. Clearly the dollar and profit at any price made such decisions possible.



    I still don't see the logic between your attempt to connect 'bleeding heart' mindsets with technological innovation, as if the latter is possible only in the absence of the former. That doesn't make any sense and if it does, you don't explain why or offer any proof.
  • Reply 25 of 26
    asciiascii Posts: 5,936member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Radar View Post


    I still don't see the logic between your attempt to connect 'bleeding heart' mindsets with technological innovation, as if the latter is possible only in the absence of the former. That doesn't make any sense and if it does, you don't explain why or offer any proof.



    It makes sense if you understand, like Steve did, that cause and effect operates in people and culture just as it does in an engine or a chemistry set.



    But you seem to like politics. You don't need a Steve-like mind for that, all you need is big horse teeth and an ability to talk crap. So keep practicing and maybe one day you'll be happy.
  • Reply 26 of 26
    radarradar Posts: 271member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ascii View Post


    It makes sense if you understand, like Steve did, that cause and effect operates in people and culture just as it does in an engine or a chemistry set.



    But you seem to like politics. You don't need a Steve-like mind for that, all you need is big horse teeth and an ability to talk crap. So keep practicing and maybe one day you'll be happy.



    Good dodge on the question, just not good enough. Again, you're leaving a huge gap in your assertion that there's a link between tech innovation and 'bleeding heart' mindsets. All you did there was make a vague reference to something about a 'Steve-like mind", whatever that is. Like a missionary who only quotes the Word, I guess that's the only "proof" you require? C'mon man, give us the goods!
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