There are PC chassis out there that are virtually tool less to repair. If not tool less a minimal of screw drivers are required. In any event few make getting to a hard drive or a disk drive a major exercise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot
Odd... I've been using my current iMacs for years now and have never needed a suction cup OR putty knife to use them.
Now... your car analogy... if you wanted to FIX a BROKEN car... you would need several different tools that most people don't possess.
Ah yes the special tool arguement. Realize though that many people have the tools to do superficial work on their cars. One balances tool ownership with personal skills and a willingness to do the work. On the vast majority of PC hardware it is trivial to maintain a selection of tools to service them. That combined with easy access lowers the bar inexpensive repairs and upgrades.
It is the difference between doing a engine rebuild and changing the oil.
Quote:
Do you drive a car?... If so do you own a spring compressor?, torque wrench?, pickle forks?, a brand-proprietary fuel line disconnect tool?, compression gauge?, feeler gauges?, etc? ... or are you able to drive it without all those tools?
This isn't even remotely connected to the issue at hand. Say you don't own those things, you are still at an advantage when it comes to hiring somebody else to work on the vehicle. An easy to service car will save you money as the degree of specialization is reduced.
A design that predates every single other sold by Apple.
I have NEVER heard that. No intelligent 'consumer' wastes $2400 on a computer they can open (when they're not going to DO anything in it) or for 'ports on the front'.
Uh... huh...
So does this say the Mac Pro doesn't have the best design of any openable computer on the market?
Blah, blah, blah, xMac, blah, blah, blah, the reason the PC exists, blah, blah, blah...
'Accept', and no, they're not "harder to use".
And that is the only real complaint people have about the iMac that I agree with. There should be a drive bay on it like the Mac Pro has for easy hard drive swappage.
Completely and utterly different concept. That's a HORRIBLE analogy. HORRIBLE analogy.
This post was so funny. The moderator, Tal' just opens a can of whoop ass on him.
A glorious death match. Given his spine (after having ripped it out) to feed one chunk at a time.
But seriously *(wipes tear from eye...)...it was a good point that the Mac Pro's stagnant design (some may argue it's a timeless monument to the dinosaur tower...it is a work of art) but it does predate everything Apple is now doing.
That was an excellent point made by Tal. And it's a pertinent one. It goes to the crux of the 'Apple considering the future' of the Mac Pro debate. Apple are selling almost 4 million laptops per quarter. Never mind the desktops! Now, for the life of me, I don't know why anyone would want a laptop. I'm not fond of them. But I do see why someone would want a tablet. Or an iPad. (let's get it right...) Some may argue that the laptop is the ultimate desktop replacement. I wouldn't argue. ANd you can put it on any desk you want And if you have a Macbook Pro you can do 'pro' work on the move.
At least the iMac gives you a value proposition with the bigger screen.
Which way is the wind blowing? It's away from the Mac Pro and all it stands for.
I really don't give a damn about his philosophies, in this case his views are certainly bull heaviness and yes laziness. It is not an impossible task to come up with an attractive yet useful solution.
Beyond that this so called design philosophy gave us the original Mac Books AIRs with their trap doors. One can not twist that into good design, in fact the market totally rejected the hardware. There is a balance between art and usefulness. The new AIRs acceptance in the marketplace has a lot to do with design that is acceptable to the users.
You are so wrapped up in the Johnny love fest you fail to see where many of his art projects have failed in the marketplace, mainly due to the design. Now I'm not here demanding perfection because if you don't screw up once in a while you aren't trying. What I object to is the lack of objectivity seen in these forums and the defense of really bad design at the hands of Johnny and his crew.
That depends upon a number of factors including how you have the unit mounted.
Try a little harder please.
The thing is millions of consumers are 'wrapped' up in Apple's designer Ive chic and the design philosophy that goes into each device. And it's put 100 billion in Apple's bank. Sure, Macs have been doing better and deliver solid profits but dragged along by the halo glow of the ipod/iphone/iPad. ...it's the idevices that have taken Apple to mega Olympian level they are at now. And the sales reflect that shared belief between Apple/Ives and the Consumer.
Sure, some companies sell 'bee doo beep' LED and port infested products that have the aesthetic of an maggot infested Apple. You can still buy those...from the competition. And they're doing very well with it.
Designers don't always get it right. And nobody said Ives Apple designs are perfect. (Well, apart from the Mac Pro, the iMac, the Macbook Air, the iPhone, the iPod, the iPad...heh) But maybe the Cube was just overpriced. The puck? Hmm. Heh. The iPhone recharge plug. I'd give you a point for that one. Hard to grip and pull out and it's...er a plug...that's it's job. To be put in and out...baybee. Oh yes.
Sure, we can want these things. But looking back over Apple since their renaissance. Do we have a reasonably priced tower? No. Do we have the x-Mac? No. Do we have port infested designs? No. The ugly ports are out of sight. These agendas clearly don't fit in with what Apple are doing. (And no, it doesn't stop you wishing, Wizard. )
Good thing too. But then, people can be superficial that way...
If you don't 'give a damn' about his philosophies...why are you still arguing about them..? I don't see lots of Wizard types outside the bricks and mortar stores protesting about the lack of front port on stuff...or the 'lack of access to consumer machines. Sure the iMac is awkward to get into...but when do you ever need to go in one? Almost(!) never.
It's not 'impossible' to come up with an attractive yet useful solution. Walk into any Apple store. You'll see plenty of them. (They are 'attractive.' And they are 'useful.')
The old Mac Book Air was a bit ahead of the curve. Regardless. Apple's added a few extras and it's a sure success. Or in Wizard's language 'fixed that vital access flaw...'
'Bad design.' The examples you mention are piddly in the scheme of things. The Mac Pro front port design is ancient. It was an ugly fad in PC towers...and it still is. Apple are all about the machine not having wires sticking out everywhere. Where have you been for the last 15 years? Apple's design is 'so bad' that competitors are falling over themselves *(eg Samsung or the ultra book mob) to rip it off. But Apple have them beat on component pricing, beat on retail and beat on design and eco-structure.
Go buy a PC with a port sticking out the front. I don't see that happening with iMac (the screen moves when you prod it...heh, heh, heh...he got you good with that...), the iphone, the iPad.
'Bull heaviness and yes laziness.' Sounds like what you're asking for. Or your opinions, perhaps? Perhaps you don't understand the direction Apple is headed. You don't like it...I guess it's a democracy (apparently...) but don't hold your breath waiting for that front port.
Apple's a consumer electronics company now. The new Sony or the new Apple. People aren't lining up with torx screw drivers to access the iDevices or consumer Macs.
This post was so funny. The moderator, Tal' just opens a can of whoop ass on him.
A glorious death match. Given his spine (after having ripped it out) to feed one chunk at a time.
Har, har...sorry folks. I just got up...
Lemon Bon Bon.
Hey, I'm sorry, but I get vocal about this sort of thing.
It has been bleedingly obvious that Apple's not gonna give focus to a consumer machine that can be opened. If you didn't get that in 1997, you won't ever get it.
Don't get me wrong, I don't want the Mac Pro dead. I have one! Know why I have one? I'm not rich.
"Er? what?"
I have a Mac Pro because I'm not rich. I got it by saving my money and a generous grant from the My Grandmother foundation. I expect the hardware I have right now to work for my needs for three more years. Then I'll get some more RAM when it's dirt cheap and whatever GPU is in the newest of Apple's pro desktops at the time (provided they still exist). Then that'll last me another six years, twelve to thirteen total, by which time I MIGHT have the money to buy a new Mac. I should be able to afford some RAM in the future and a GPU, but not, say, a whole new iMac.
I'm already finding that it would be nice to have more than 6GB of RAM?
The old Mac Book Air was a bit ahead of the curve. Regardless. Apple's added a few extras and it's a sure success. Or in Wizard's language 'fixed that vital access flaw...'
You lost me there. The old macbook air couldn't run the installed hardware at normal settings, and it carried a very hefty pricetag for this. It was a first generation design. It flopped, and they fixed it. People on here always disapprove of Intel and the ultrabook thing, but better Intel cpus from better R&D budgets gives you better macbook airs. I know I know... they'll all switch to ARM by this time next year right? Even if Intel did nothing, that would take real time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
I have a Mac Pro because I'm not rich. I got it by saving my money and a generous grant from the My Grandmother foundation. I expect the hardware I have right now to work for my needs for three more years. Then I'll get some more RAM when it's dirt cheap and whatever GPU is in the newest of Apple's pro desktops at the time (provided they still exist). Then that'll last me another six years, twelve to thirteen total, by which time I MIGHT have the money to buy a new Mac. I should be able to afford some RAM in the future and a GPU, but not, say, a whole new iMac.
I'm already finding that it would be nice to have more than 6GB of RAM?
Ram is already exceptionally cheap there. It seems like one of the cheapest upgrades of all. It's just that for a while we were stuck with application builds that couldn't benefit much from much additional ram. Some applications would go through serious acrobatics to remain within this limit. Outside of the mac pro, I'd jump straight to the mini. The imacs have shown too many display problems spanning many computer generations, and out of warranty, replacing a hard drive can run you several hundred dollars.
Yeah I see that all the time but it has absolutely nothing to do with naming the next iPhone, iPhone 5.
I'd have to say a very strong possibility.
I want iPad 3 to get more Flash storage but also realize that they may have to expand RAM considerably to drive a retina display. So at a minimum I'm expecting more RAM which may impact cost.
Nope my definition is that the 15" AIR is exactly that an AIR. The MBP are far more powerful than the current AIRs, something I expect to remain true for a very very long time. MBP simply have more volume to work with, which means there is more freedom to tune various parameters and to deliver bleeding edge pro features. As to the 13" MBP even now the AIRs don't come close to the performance of the 13" MBP, remove the optical from that machine and you can make it even more powerful. There is really no overlap in targetted audiences.
Maybe I'm a bit wishful but I just think this is a good year for Apple to break out a bit and attack new markets. It is also a good year to strengthen existing product lines.
I want the iPad to have a micro or mini SD card slot/tray for use for additional storage, such as keeping a collection of videos on them or additional music profiles and transferring files in and out of the iPad.
I suppose a (full size) SD card slot would do double duty if they enabled it for all of the above.
Designers don't always get it right. And nobody said Ives Apple designs are perfect. (Well, apart from the Mac Pro, the iMac, the Macbook Air, the iPhone, the iPod, the iPad...heh) But maybe the Cube was just overpriced. The puck? Hmm. Heh. The iPhone recharge plug. I'd give you a point for that one. Hard to grip and pull out and it's...er a plug...that's it's job. To be put in and out...baybee. Oh yes.
<snip>
Lemon Bon Bon.
Almost all of Sir Jonny's designs have thermal issues. It would be good to let the functionality have a little greater influence on the design.
Comments
Odd... I've been using my current iMacs for years now and have never needed a suction cup OR putty knife to use them.
Now... your car analogy... if you wanted to FIX a BROKEN car... you would need several different tools that most people don't possess.
Ah yes the special tool arguement. Realize though that many people have the tools to do superficial work on their cars. One balances tool ownership with personal skills and a willingness to do the work. On the vast majority of PC hardware it is trivial to maintain a selection of tools to service them. That combined with easy access lowers the bar inexpensive repairs and upgrades.
It is the difference between doing a engine rebuild and changing the oil.
Do you drive a car?... If so do you own a spring compressor?, torque wrench?, pickle forks?, a brand-proprietary fuel line disconnect tool?, compression gauge?, feeler gauges?, etc? ... or are you able to drive it without all those tools?
This isn't even remotely connected to the issue at hand. Say you don't own those things, you are still at an advantage when it comes to hiring somebody else to work on the vehicle. An easy to service car will save you money as the degree of specialization is reduced.
A design that predates every single other sold by Apple.
I have NEVER heard that. No intelligent 'consumer' wastes $2400 on a computer they can open (when they're not going to DO anything in it) or for 'ports on the front'.
Uh... huh...
So does this say the Mac Pro doesn't have the best design of any openable computer on the market?
Blah, blah, blah, xMac, blah, blah, blah, the reason the PC exists, blah, blah, blah...
'Accept', and no, they're not "harder to use".
And that is the only real complaint people have about the iMac that I agree with. There should be a drive bay on it like the Mac Pro has for easy hard drive swappage.
Completely and utterly different concept. That's a HORRIBLE analogy. HORRIBLE analogy.
A glorious death match. Given his spine (after having ripped it out) to feed one chunk at a time.
Har, har...sorry folks. I just got up...
Lemon Bon Bon.
That was an excellent point made by Tal. And it's a pertinent one. It goes to the crux of the 'Apple considering the future' of the Mac Pro debate. Apple are selling almost 4 million laptops per quarter. Never mind the desktops! Now, for the life of me, I don't know why anyone would want a laptop. I'm not fond of them. But I do see why someone would want a tablet. Or an iPad. (let's get it right...) Some may argue that the laptop is the ultimate desktop replacement. I wouldn't argue. ANd you can put it on any desk you want
At least the iMac gives you a value proposition with the bigger screen.
Which way is the wind blowing? It's away from the Mac Pro and all it stands for.
Lemon Bon Bon.
I really don't give a damn about his philosophies, in this case his views are certainly bull heaviness and yes laziness. It is not an impossible task to come up with an attractive yet useful solution.
Beyond that this so called design philosophy gave us the original Mac Books AIRs with their trap doors. One can not twist that into good design, in fact the market totally rejected the hardware. There is a balance between art and usefulness. The new AIRs acceptance in the marketplace has a lot to do with design that is acceptable to the users.
You are so wrapped up in the Johnny love fest you fail to see where many of his art projects have failed in the marketplace, mainly due to the design. Now I'm not here demanding perfection because if you don't screw up once in a while you aren't trying. What I object to is the lack of objectivity seen in these forums and the defense of really bad design at the hands of Johnny and his crew.
That depends upon a number of factors including how you have the unit mounted.
Try a little harder please.
The thing is millions of consumers are 'wrapped' up in Apple's designer Ive chic and the design philosophy that goes into each device. And it's put 100 billion in Apple's bank. Sure, Macs have been doing better and deliver solid profits but dragged along by the halo glow of the ipod/iphone/iPad. ...it's the idevices that have taken Apple to mega Olympian level they are at now. And the sales reflect that shared belief between Apple/Ives and the Consumer.
Sure, some companies sell 'bee doo beep' LED and port infested products that have the aesthetic of an maggot infested Apple. You can still buy those...from the competition. And they're doing very well with it.
Designers don't always get it right. And nobody said Ives Apple designs are perfect. (Well, apart from the Mac Pro, the iMac, the Macbook Air, the iPhone, the iPod, the iPad...heh) But maybe the Cube was just overpriced. The puck? Hmm. Heh. The iPhone recharge plug. I'd give you a point for that one. Hard to grip and pull out and it's...er a plug...that's it's job. To be put in and out...baybee. Oh yes.
Sure, we can want these things. But looking back over Apple since their renaissance. Do we have a reasonably priced tower? No. Do we have the x-Mac? No. Do we have port infested designs? No. The ugly ports are out of sight. These agendas clearly don't fit in with what Apple are doing. (And no, it doesn't stop you wishing, Wizard.
Good thing too. But then, people can be superficial that way...
Lemon Bon Bon.
If you don't 'give a damn' about his philosophies...why are you still arguing about them..? I don't see lots of Wizard types outside the bricks and mortar stores protesting about the lack of front port on stuff...or the 'lack of access to consumer machines. Sure the iMac is awkward to get into...but when do you ever need to go in one? Almost(!) never.
It's not 'impossible' to come up with an attractive yet useful solution. Walk into any Apple store. You'll see plenty of them. (They are 'attractive.' And they are 'useful.')
The old Mac Book Air was a bit ahead of the curve. Regardless. Apple's added a few extras and it's a sure success. Or in Wizard's language 'fixed that vital access flaw...'
'Bad design.' The examples you mention are piddly in the scheme of things. The Mac Pro front port design is ancient. It was an ugly fad in PC towers...and it still is. Apple are all about the machine not having wires sticking out everywhere. Where have you been for the last 15 years? Apple's design is 'so bad' that competitors are falling over themselves *(eg Samsung or the ultra book mob) to rip it off. But Apple have them beat on component pricing, beat on retail and beat on design and eco-structure.
Go buy a PC with a port sticking out the front. I don't see that happening with iMac (the screen moves when you prod it...heh, heh, heh...he got you good with that...), the iphone, the iPad.
'Bull heaviness and yes laziness.' Sounds like what you're asking for. Or your opinions, perhaps? Perhaps you don't understand the direction Apple is headed. You don't like it...I guess it's a democracy (apparently...) but don't hold your breath waiting for that front port.
Apple's a consumer electronics company now. The new Sony or the new Apple. People aren't lining up with torx screw drivers to access the iDevices or consumer Macs.
Lemon Bon Bon.
Apple TV 3 ? A6, apps, bluetooth keyboard, Safari, 1080P output
Not sure about the Apple TV set
802.11ac Airport & Time Capsules or maybe just Time Machine? Update Express to 802.11ac.
New Mac Pro tower form factor ? Will it include optical drive? Will is use flash storage like the Air?
New MacBook Pro design with 16:9 display ratio & possible Retina option
Revamped iMac ? Like Mac Pro will it jettison optical drive? Will it use flash storage like the Air?
Discussing Mac OS X 10.8
Do you think Apple will try to merge Mac OS X & iOS?
iPhone 5
iPad 3 ? including Siri
Mac mini ? moves to Ivy Bridge summertime.
It looks like I'm already off. 10.8 not only discussed, but previewed, beta, and out this summer! Whoa, nelly! Is 2012 going to blow us away?
A glorious death match. Given his spine (after having ripped it out) to feed one chunk at a time.
Har, har...sorry folks. I just got up...
Lemon Bon Bon.
Hey, I'm sorry, but I get vocal about this sort of thing.
It has been bleedingly obvious that Apple's not gonna give focus to a consumer machine that can be opened. If you didn't get that in 1997, you won't ever get it.
Don't get me wrong, I don't want the Mac Pro dead. I have one! Know why I have one? I'm not rich.
"Er? what?"
I have a Mac Pro because I'm not rich. I got it by saving my money and a generous grant from the My Grandmother foundation. I expect the hardware I have right now to work for my needs for three more years. Then I'll get some more RAM when it's dirt cheap and whatever GPU is in the newest of Apple's pro desktops at the time (provided they still exist). Then that'll last me another six years, twelve to thirteen total, by which time I MIGHT have the money to buy a new Mac. I should be able to afford some RAM in the future and a GPU, but not, say, a whole new iMac.
I'm already finding that it would be nice to have more than 6GB of RAM?
The old Mac Book Air was a bit ahead of the curve. Regardless. Apple's added a few extras and it's a sure success. Or in Wizard's language 'fixed that vital access flaw...'
You lost me there. The old macbook air couldn't run the installed hardware at normal settings, and it carried a very hefty pricetag for this. It was a first generation design. It flopped, and they fixed it. People on here always disapprove of Intel and the ultrabook thing, but better Intel cpus from better R&D budgets gives you better macbook airs. I know I know... they'll all switch to ARM by this time next year right
I have a Mac Pro because I'm not rich. I got it by saving my money and a generous grant from the My Grandmother foundation. I expect the hardware I have right now to work for my needs for three more years. Then I'll get some more RAM when it's dirt cheap and whatever GPU is in the newest of Apple's pro desktops at the time (provided they still exist). Then that'll last me another six years, twelve to thirteen total, by which time I MIGHT have the money to buy a new Mac. I should be able to afford some RAM in the future and a GPU, but not, say, a whole new iMac.
I'm already finding that it would be nice to have more than 6GB of RAM?
Ram is already exceptionally cheap there. It seems like one of the cheapest upgrades of all. It's just that for a while we were stuck with application builds that couldn't benefit much from much additional ram. Some applications would go through serious acrobatics to remain within this limit. Outside of the mac pro, I'd jump straight to the mini. The imacs have shown too many display problems spanning many computer generations, and out of warranty, replacing a hard drive can run you several hundred dollars.
Yeah I see that all the time but it has absolutely nothing to do with naming the next iPhone, iPhone 5.
I'd have to say a very strong possibility.
I want iPad 3 to get more Flash storage but also realize that they may have to expand RAM considerably to drive a retina display. So at a minimum I'm expecting more RAM which may impact cost.
Nope my definition is that the 15" AIR is exactly that an AIR. The MBP are far more powerful than the current AIRs, something I expect to remain true for a very very long time. MBP simply have more volume to work with, which means there is more freedom to tune various parameters and to deliver bleeding edge pro features. As to the 13" MBP even now the AIRs don't come close to the performance of the 13" MBP, remove the optical from that machine and you can make it even more powerful. There is really no overlap in targetted audiences.
Maybe I'm a bit wishful but I just think this is a good year for Apple to break out a bit and attack new markets. It is also a good year to strengthen existing product lines.
I want the iPad to have a micro or mini SD card slot/tray for use for additional storage, such as keeping a collection of videos on them or additional music profiles and transferring files in and out of the iPad.
I suppose a (full size) SD card slot would do double duty if they enabled it for all of the above.
<snip>
Designers don't always get it right. And nobody said Ives Apple designs are perfect. (Well, apart from the Mac Pro, the iMac, the Macbook Air, the iPhone, the iPod, the iPad...heh) But maybe the Cube was just overpriced. The puck? Hmm. Heh. The iPhone recharge plug. I'd give you a point for that one. Hard to grip and pull out and it's...er a plug...that's it's job. To be put in and out...baybee. Oh yes.
<snip>
Lemon Bon Bon.
Almost all of Sir Jonny's designs have thermal issues. It would be good to let the functionality have a little greater influence on the design.
Cheers