Then as such, you should remember back in the late 80's and 90's that Apple resellers were a Godsend for you and Apple. It gave Apple an outlet to sell their wares. It gave you a place that was dedicated to the Mac platform and none of this store within a store BS they originally had at CompUSA.
I also remember some really terrible ones. Anyone remember the Sears Apple section? Sears was an authorized Apple reseller - and had terrible displays, usually empty and when they had a computer there, it was usually broken. If you asked a sales person for help, they invariably steered you away from Apple products.
Resellers can be great or they can be terrible. But, ultimately, their success depends on their own actions.
I also remember some really terrible ones. Anyone remember the Sears Apple section? Sears was an authorized Apple reseller - and had terrible displays, usually empty and when they had a computer there, it was usually broken. If you asked a sales person for help, they invariably steered you away from Apple products.
Resellers can be great or they can be terrible. But, ultimately, their success depends on their own actions.
I don't believe this story for one second. It is simply not remotely consistent with the massive revenue and profit increases that Apple saw in Europe in the past quarter (+55% and +69%, as noted before). Moreover, the Euro depreciated against USD during this time, thereby making the reported numbers in USD even lower than it otherwise might have been.
It is quite unlikely that more than 55% and 69%, respectively - which would be the case if iPhone sales fell - came from sales increases in Macs and iPads. (We know that iPods have been flat-to-declining.) If the recession were affecting the iPhone, it would be affecting iPads (a relative luxury) and Macs (more expensive on a per-unit basis) even more.
I don't believe this story for one second. It is simply not remotely consistent with the massive revenue and profit increases that Apple saw in Europe in the past quarter (+55% and +69%, as noted before). Moreover, the Euro depreciated against USD during this time, thereby making the reported numbers in USD even lower than it otherwise might have been.
It is quite unlikely that more than 55% and 69%, respectively - which would be the case if iPhone sales fell - came from sales increases in Macs and iPads. (We know that iPods have been flat-to-declining.) If the recession were affecting the iPhone, it would be affecting iPads (a relative luxury) and Macs (more expensive on a per-unit basis) even more.
One story added the word "sales" to the story while others consistently talked about market share. I do believe, though, that market share and sales fell in Spain, while only market share dropped in France and Germany [and Italy]. The UK could have played a big part in increased sales in Europe but definitely there is a trend towards Android in France, Germany and Italy. [plus, it must be remembered that this survey was until the end of November. Regardless, I believe that even if Apple was able to do a massive push during December then we will still see a fall off of market share, and possibly even sales, in France, Germany, Italy and Spain during the 1st calendar quarter of 2012.]
I don't think roughing up the resellers is the answer to a (large) drop in market share. Reeducating the reseller and having a point by point standards list with strict adherence is one way to help alleviate any problems. Denying a reseller product while keeping the Apple store bloated is not, imo.
I like how people expect Apple to maintain the exact same strategies, business practises, and marketing paradigms that it held back in the 'dark days'. I mean, seriously? As the environment changes, so have they, in terms of doing whats optimal for them. If official Apple stores can't keep stock of their products because of crazy high demand, do you honestly expect them NOT to prioritize their own stores over resellers?Not doing so would be idiotic, irrational, and insane. This isn't some evil scheme to put these resellers out of business. It's about prioritizing stock of their own stores, which makes complete sense.
I keep seeing the statement of 'back in the day it was X who kept Apple alive and now they're screwing us' statements ad-nauseum. And? So instead of catering to the mainstream, you want Apple to continue to focus on this fringe percentage of the population who have always been fans of the company, and to put their needs and wants beyond those of the hundreds of millions of normal people it's now selling to? Get the hell over yourselves, enough with the entitlement, victimization bullshit. You bought Apple products because you liked them and chose to, not as charity work to keep the company alive. The distributors sold Apple products because they were also making money from it, it wasn't charity work. Apple doesn't owe you anything, so stop pretending it does, and stop expect it to base it's product strategy on the wants of the 0.001% of its consumer base that were 'there for Apple when it needed it' (those people that are butt-hurt that Apple announces new iPhones and iPads at it's keynotes, and not new MacPros).
I completely agree with you but I stopped posting replies to ill-informed comments like the one that you replied to.
People just don't understand that Apple is in the business to make money. You should read MacRumors. People vilify Apple ad nauseam over how they're treating the pro market badly. They say the same thing that the OP said about resellers. They say that the pro customers were Apple's bread and butter and Apple is now turning their back on them. They talk ad nauseam over how they used to have so much respect for Apple but they've become too ruthless, as though Apple as let them down.
But I suspect there are opportunities out there for clever entrepreneurs. For example, how about setting up a store that will do custom upgrades on new Macs? It could work like this:
1. you come into the store and consult with a salesperson who helps you pick a Mac from Apple's website and upgrades from OWC's website.
2. with the salesperson's help (if necessary) you order the stuff you need and have it delivered to the store.
3. everything is shipped to the store, where the staff put it altogether for you.
4. the store could even offer an alternative to AppleCare.
Such a store could also provide higher-end services and support for both consumers and small business (same day loaners on equipment that goes down; workshops on various software products that perhaps go into more depth than the Apple Store's workshops;...)
Such a store would be a bit of a niche, perhaps, but at least in larger cities I bet it could be successful.
Well that's exactly my business here in Germany. Only thing is you do not need to have a store at all.
It's called IT consulting.
We actually order online at Apple for our clients with their own accounts in most cases. We do the upgrade and fresh installations, optimizing the system, and hooking up to the network, etc. We also install mixed systems, including MS servers, backup solutions, the whole mobile thing, etc.
A couple of long time buddies of mine here were also once an "Authorized Reseller", but turned down the (new) Apple contracts about 8 (9?) years ago. They also do IT consulting with an emphasis on Mac/Apple shops and services, basically the same as mine.
IMO, anything more than a few rooms, the necessary equipment/tools needed for repairs/upgrades, and a small staff... of which a secretary/shop manager is the most important personnel... is plain over-confident, wasteful, and not likely to be profitable.
I don't think anyone is asking Apple to "subsidize" purchases. They are simply - and rightfully - asking to be given adequate product to sell.
Of course there's a subsidy that is being asked for: The final sale price of the product is the same: i.e., Apple gets a higher margin when they sell through their own stores than through other retailers. That is Retailing 101. The fact that you choose to ignore that basic fact doesn't make it go away.
And, what is so 'rightful' about these guys that is not so with long-time customers?
Out hustle Apple you will be lost. You obviosly did a good job at the hustle part of your business. Congrats. Selling is more than having "the goods" on the shelf. Your relationship with YOUR customers is key to success. Good business is not like a vending machine, to get and keep customers more is needed, like service, service and did I mention service?
Thanks for the kinds words. I love Apple as a company but it feels good to not have that direct affiliation like before.
I now do consulting and high end software sales on my own and it's a much more pleasant experience. Apple Stores will send business your way all day if they know your not selling hardware.
Apple does have a ruthless side these days. Back in the dark days it was the resellers that kept Apple alive.
In the dark days, resellers were also marginalizing Apple products, which is why Apple has such a dislike for resellers. Does that mean all resellers were problematic? No, but when you are bitten by a coyote, you tend to shy away from all coyotes from then on.
In the dark days, resellers were also marginalizing Apple products, which is why Apple has such a dislike for resellers. Does that mean all resellers were problematic? No, but when you are bitten by a coyote, you tend to shy away from all coyotes from then on.
Resellers were also bad about keeping secrets back in the day which helped create Apple's dislike for them.
Apple is perhaps being ruthless, or the European resellers are not investing enough credit, or somehow European operations have gone slightly off the boil.
But it is a sad fact of life in any case. My condolences to Apple Premium Resellers (APRs).
Some APRs around the world *have* done better with official Apple Stores around though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
They should be looking for alternate revenue streams because this issue will not get better for them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
Perhaps their credit is being cut back by Apple as their businesses have declined which might explain inventory shortages. Apple are not going ship a ton of product to a company with a massive overdraft and a potential to go out of business. A horrible catch 22 to be sure if true but it wouldn't be Apple's doing by intent.
I won't touch the subject where they complain an English company is doing audits in the French stores ... Way too political!
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit
One has to ask, though, if Apple is choking off supply only to the stores close to Apple stores or if supply is also being cut to locations that aren't anywhere near an Apple store.
Remember that France is one of the countries showing a decline of iPhone sales in Europe. Actually, France had the greatest drop in sales.
Of course, one could argue that the drop in sales occurred because the resellers weren't doing their job but if that's not the reason then Apple had best address the situation promptly.
Thanks for the kinds words. I love Apple as a company but it feels good to not have that direct affiliation like before.
I now do consulting and high end software sales on my own and it's a much more pleasant experience. Apple Stores will send business your way all day if they know your not selling hardware.
Yes, I worked four years in Malaysia with the largest Apple Premium Reseller there, from their very first shop to six, since I left they added a few more.
But it is good not being so closely tied to Apple, can be a nightmare sometimes.
I'm here in Australia doing mah own thing, still Apple-related, but much more... relieving(?).
In the dark days, resellers were also marginalizing Apple products, which is why Apple has such a dislike for resellers. Does that mean all resellers were problematic? No, but when you are bitten by a coyote, you tend to shy away from all coyotes from then on.
Resellers and Apple is like a fine dance ~ both courtship, mating and combat in ritual.
I don't believe this story for one second. It is simply not remotely consistent with the massive revenue and profit increases that Apple saw in Europe in the past quarter (+55% and +69%, as noted before). Moreover, the Euro depreciated against USD during this time, thereby making the reported numbers in USD even lower than it otherwise might have been.
It is quite unlikely that more than 55% and 69%, respectively - which would be the case if iPhone sales fell - came from sales increases in Macs and iPads. (We know that iPods have been flat-to-declining.) If the recession were affecting the iPhone, it would be affecting iPads (a relative luxury) and Macs (more expensive on a per-unit basis) even more.
Exactly. If Apple is keeping all the inventory for themselves and not shipping to the resellers, how in the world did they get a 55% increase in revenues? There are less than 100 Apple Stores in all of Europe, so they couldn't do that on their own.
Comments
Resellers sell Apple products at a very higher price...
I have only ever seen the exact prices as available at Apple Stores and online from any of the resellers I've visited.
Then as such, you should remember back in the late 80's and 90's that Apple resellers were a Godsend for you and Apple. It gave Apple an outlet to sell their wares. It gave you a place that was dedicated to the Mac platform and none of this store within a store BS they originally had at CompUSA.
I also remember some really terrible ones. Anyone remember the Sears Apple section? Sears was an authorized Apple reseller - and had terrible displays, usually empty and when they had a computer there, it was usually broken. If you asked a sales person for help, they invariably steered you away from Apple products.
Resellers can be great or they can be terrible. But, ultimately, their success depends on their own actions.
I also remember some really terrible ones. Anyone remember the Sears Apple section? Sears was an authorized Apple reseller - and had terrible displays, usually empty and when they had a computer there, it was usually broken. If you asked a sales person for help, they invariably steered you away from Apple products.
Resellers can be great or they can be terrible. But, ultimately, their success depends on their own actions.
The Performa line certainly didn't help...
C'mon, you guys.
The story was right here on AI:
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=139257
Thanks. I had missed it, for some reason.
I don't believe this story for one second. It is simply not remotely consistent with the massive revenue and profit increases that Apple saw in Europe in the past quarter (+55% and +69%, as noted before). Moreover, the Euro depreciated against USD during this time, thereby making the reported numbers in USD even lower than it otherwise might have been.
It is quite unlikely that more than 55% and 69%, respectively - which would be the case if iPhone sales fell - came from sales increases in Macs and iPads. (We know that iPods have been flat-to-declining.) If the recession were affecting the iPhone, it would be affecting iPads (a relative luxury) and Macs (more expensive on a per-unit basis) even more.
Thanks. I had missed it, for some reason.
I don't believe this story for one second. It is simply not remotely consistent with the massive revenue and profit increases that Apple saw in Europe in the past quarter (+55% and +69%, as noted before). Moreover, the Euro depreciated against USD during this time, thereby making the reported numbers in USD even lower than it otherwise might have been.
It is quite unlikely that more than 55% and 69%, respectively - which would be the case if iPhone sales fell - came from sales increases in Macs and iPads. (We know that iPods have been flat-to-declining.) If the recession were affecting the iPhone, it would be affecting iPads (a relative luxury) and Macs (more expensive on a per-unit basis) even more.
One story added the word "sales" to the story while others consistently talked about market share. I do believe, though, that market share and sales fell in Spain, while only market share dropped in France and Germany [and Italy]. The UK could have played a big part in increased sales in Europe but definitely there is a trend towards Android in France, Germany and Italy. [plus, it must be remembered that this survey was until the end of November. Regardless, I believe that even if Apple was able to do a massive push during December then we will still see a fall off of market share, and possibly even sales, in France, Germany, Italy and Spain during the 1st calendar quarter of 2012.]
I don't think roughing up the resellers is the answer to a (large) drop in market share. Reeducating the reseller and having a point by point standards list with strict adherence is one way to help alleviate any problems. Denying a reseller product while keeping the Apple store bloated is not, imo.
I like how people expect Apple to maintain the exact same strategies, business practises, and marketing paradigms that it held back in the 'dark days'. I mean, seriously? As the environment changes, so have they, in terms of doing whats optimal for them. If official Apple stores can't keep stock of their products because of crazy high demand, do you honestly expect them NOT to prioritize their own stores over resellers?Not doing so would be idiotic, irrational, and insane. This isn't some evil scheme to put these resellers out of business. It's about prioritizing stock of their own stores, which makes complete sense.
I keep seeing the statement of 'back in the day it was X who kept Apple alive and now they're screwing us' statements ad-nauseum. And? So instead of catering to the mainstream, you want Apple to continue to focus on this fringe percentage of the population who have always been fans of the company, and to put their needs and wants beyond those of the hundreds of millions of normal people it's now selling to? Get the hell over yourselves, enough with the entitlement, victimization bullshit. You bought Apple products because you liked them and chose to, not as charity work to keep the company alive. The distributors sold Apple products because they were also making money from it, it wasn't charity work. Apple doesn't owe you anything, so stop pretending it does, and stop expect it to base it's product strategy on the wants of the 0.001% of its consumer base that were 'there for Apple when it needed it' (those people that are butt-hurt that Apple announces new iPhones and iPads at it's keynotes, and not new MacPros).
I completely agree with you but I stopped posting replies to ill-informed comments like the one that you replied to.
People just don't understand that Apple is in the business to make money. You should read MacRumors. People vilify Apple ad nauseam over how they're treating the pro market badly. They say the same thing that the OP said about resellers. They say that the pro customers were Apple's bread and butter and Apple is now turning their back on them. They talk ad nauseam over how they used to have so much respect for Apple but they've become too ruthless, as though Apple as let them down.
I've been an Apple customer since 1984, through thick and thin, good days and bad, and people like me kept the company afloat through its 'dark days'.
So does that mean that Apple should subsidize my purchases as well?
I don't think anyone is asking Apple to "subsidize" purchases. They are simply - and rightfully - asking to be given adequate product to sell.
Apple does have a ruthless side these days. Back in the dark days it was the resellers that kept Apple alive.
It's not a wrong observation.
I've been an Apple customer since 1984, through thick and thin, good days and bad, and people like me kept the company afloat through its 'dark days'.
So does that mean that Apple should subsidize my purchases as well?
With all due respect, this retort misses the mark.
Looks like the middle man is being cut out.
But I suspect there are opportunities out there for clever entrepreneurs. For example, how about setting up a store that will do custom upgrades on new Macs? It could work like this:
1. you come into the store and consult with a salesperson who helps you pick a Mac from Apple's website and upgrades from OWC's website.
2. with the salesperson's help (if necessary) you order the stuff you need and have it delivered to the store.
3. everything is shipped to the store, where the staff put it altogether for you.
4. the store could even offer an alternative to AppleCare.
Such a store could also provide higher-end services and support for both consumers and small business (same day loaners on equipment that goes down; workshops on various software products that perhaps go into more depth than the Apple Store's workshops;...)
Such a store would be a bit of a niche, perhaps, but at least in larger cities I bet it could be successful.
Well that's exactly my business here in Germany. Only thing is you do not need to have a store at all.
It's called IT consulting.
We actually order online at Apple for our clients with their own accounts in most cases. We do the upgrade and fresh installations, optimizing the system, and hooking up to the network, etc. We also install mixed systems, including MS servers, backup solutions, the whole mobile thing, etc.
A couple of long time buddies of mine here were also once an "Authorized Reseller", but turned down the (new) Apple contracts about 8 (9?) years ago. They also do IT consulting with an emphasis on Mac/Apple shops and services, basically the same as mine.
IMO, anything more than a few rooms, the necessary equipment/tools needed for repairs/upgrades, and a small staff... of which a secretary/shop manager is the most important personnel... is plain over-confident, wasteful, and not likely to be profitable.
I don't think anyone is asking Apple to "subsidize" purchases. They are simply - and rightfully - asking to be given adequate product to sell.
Of course there's a subsidy that is being asked for: The final sale price of the product is the same: i.e., Apple gets a higher margin when they sell through their own stores than through other retailers. That is Retailing 101. The fact that you choose to ignore that basic fact doesn't make it go away.
And, what is so 'rightful' about these guys that is not so with long-time customers?
With all due respect, this retort misses the mark.
Sure, since you said so, it must be true. No need to explain why.
Out hustle Apple you will be lost. You obviosly did a good job at the hustle part of your business. Congrats. Selling is more than having "the goods" on the shelf. Your relationship with YOUR customers is key to success. Good business is not like a vending machine, to get and keep customers more is needed, like service, service and did I mention service?
Thanks for the kinds words. I love Apple as a company but it feels good to not have that direct affiliation like before.
I now do consulting and high end software sales on my own and it's a much more pleasant experience. Apple Stores will send business your way all day if they know your not selling hardware.
Apple does have a ruthless side these days. Back in the dark days it was the resellers that kept Apple alive.
In the dark days, resellers were also marginalizing Apple products, which is why Apple has such a dislike for resellers. Does that mean all resellers were problematic? No, but when you are bitten by a coyote, you tend to shy away from all coyotes from then on.
In the dark days, resellers were also marginalizing Apple products, which is why Apple has such a dislike for resellers. Does that mean all resellers were problematic? No, but when you are bitten by a coyote, you tend to shy away from all coyotes from then on.
Resellers were also bad about keeping secrets back in the day which helped create Apple's dislike for them.
But it is a sad fact of life in any case. My condolences to Apple Premium Resellers (APRs).
Some APRs around the world *have* done better with official Apple Stores around though.
They should be looking for alternate revenue streams because this issue will not get better for them.
Perhaps their credit is being cut back by Apple as their businesses have declined which might explain inventory shortages. Apple are not going ship a ton of product to a company with a massive overdraft and a potential to go out of business. A horrible catch 22 to be sure if true but it wouldn't be Apple's doing by intent.
I won't touch the subject where they complain an English company is doing audits in the French stores ... Way too political!
One has to ask, though, if Apple is choking off supply only to the stores close to Apple stores or if supply is also being cut to locations that aren't anywhere near an Apple store.
Remember that France is one of the countries showing a decline of iPhone sales in Europe. Actually, France had the greatest drop in sales.
Of course, one could argue that the drop in sales occurred because the resellers weren't doing their job but if that's not the reason then Apple had best address the situation promptly.
Thanks for the kinds words. I love Apple as a company but it feels good to not have that direct affiliation like before.
I now do consulting and high end software sales on my own and it's a much more pleasant experience. Apple Stores will send business your way all day if they know your not selling hardware.
Yes, I worked four years in Malaysia with the largest Apple Premium Reseller there, from their very first shop to six, since I left they added a few more.
But it is good not being so closely tied to Apple, can be a nightmare sometimes.
I'm here in Australia doing mah own thing, still Apple-related, but much more... relieving(?).
In the dark days, resellers were also marginalizing Apple products, which is why Apple has such a dislike for resellers. Does that mean all resellers were problematic? No, but when you are bitten by a coyote, you tend to shy away from all coyotes from then on.
Resellers and Apple is like a fine dance ~ both courtship, mating and combat in ritual.
Thanks. I had missed it, for some reason.
I don't believe this story for one second. It is simply not remotely consistent with the massive revenue and profit increases that Apple saw in Europe in the past quarter (+55% and +69%, as noted before). Moreover, the Euro depreciated against USD during this time, thereby making the reported numbers in USD even lower than it otherwise might have been.
It is quite unlikely that more than 55% and 69%, respectively - which would be the case if iPhone sales fell - came from sales increases in Macs and iPads. (We know that iPods have been flat-to-declining.) If the recession were affecting the iPhone, it would be affecting iPads (a relative luxury) and Macs (more expensive on a per-unit basis) even more.
Exactly. If Apple is keeping all the inventory for themselves and not shipping to the resellers, how in the world did they get a 55% increase in revenues? There are less than 100 Apple Stores in all of Europe, so they couldn't do that on their own.