I didn't know those statistics. I'm glad to hear them if true. About the way forward, that might be very true, at least I agree with it, but wisdom also says never burn your bridges! There are plenty of low-tech people, here in the USA, who would love to have those jobs. Besides, just last week in the news it was said that Foxconn hires more engineers than most American companies do.
With trademark issue, it doesn't matter where the iPads are made. China is a huge market for Apple, and the trademark dispute would arise even if the iPads were made in the US (which is preposterous). So long as we pay people to not work, they will never accept work like assembling iPads.
It really doesn't sound like Proview has any case. The High Court of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region seems like's in line with most suspected. Even if China doesn't see it the same way if I were Apple I would spend even more money paying out to Chinese officials to crush Proview than pay Proview off just to make a make a point.
Totally. Apple must not give into extortion from Proview. Far better to give into extortion from Chinese officials. (I'm only half joking -- at least the government is a bit more enlightened in its extortionist tendencies)
Another way to make a point would be to play up Brazilian production of iPads in the Chinese media.
An even better thing to do is to go beyond symbolic points and truly diversify the geography of iDevice production. Apple needs to start producing significant volumes of iDevices in North and South America so as not to be so dependent on a country (China) that is deeply corrupt. Of course, it's a tricky balance to strike, because China is also an important market that is becoming more important all the time. And eventually China might develop into a country where the rule of law means something. So Apple doesn't want to offend the Chinese people.
I suspect Proview was a Taiwanese company at first, got into financial trouble, like many other companies in similar situation, went to China and raised money from the local Chinese government, and bought out shares of the Taiwanese company shares.
This may be why the local court is on Proview's side, claiming "global" does not mean China domestic, claiming Chinese trademark laws are complicated... etc. trying to get a big payday.
I think eventually, Apple will have to go to the Beijing Supreme Court or something, and have the central government overriding the local rulings and Proview officials might get arrested for corruption charges.
If you researched this and know this to be fact, great then say so and post the links to the information. This isn't a contest so what is the point of guessing? If everybody posted their guesses then we'd have pages and pages of pointless garbage.
If you researched this and know this to be fact, great then say so and post the links to the information. This isn't a contest so what is the point of guessing? If everybody posted their guesses then we'd have pages and pages of pointless garbage.
The timing doesn't make a lot of sense. If Apple bought the trademark in 2006, Apple had 4 years to make sure Proview transferred the trademark before the iPad was announced. Did Proview back out of the iPad trademark transfer process BEFORE they figured out that the buyer was secretly Apple?
None of it makes any sense to me.
Why did Apple bring suit in Hong Kong claiming a China trademark?
Why didn't Apple plead these facts in the China court, or in the China Appeals court?
This may be why the local court is on Proview's side, claiming "global" does not mean China domestic, claiming Chinese trademark laws are complicated... etc. trying to get a big payday.
Does anybody know if the relevant documents were in English? Lots of peopel are riffing on the word "global", including the news sources. But was the contract in english or mandarin?
I didn't know those statistics. I'm glad to hear them if true. About the way forward, that might be very true, at least I agree with it, but wisdom also says never burn your bridges! There are plenty of low-tech people, here in the USA, who would love to have those jobs. Besides, just last week in the news it was said that Foxconn hires more engineers than most American companies do.
Unfortunately as one hedge fund manager said at a recent dinner speech in New York, ?the low-skilled American worker is the most overpaid worker in the world.? $16/hr in the US vs <$1/hr elsewhere.
So they signed an agreement to transfer the trademark to Apple, but didn't actually go to the trademark office and do it. That clarifies things.
Kind of. A company, later revealed to be either Apple using a false name or one working on Apple's behalf, bought the 'global rights' to the trademark from Proview's Europe parent office for something like $50k. Apparently Europe never mentioned that they in fact don't control the mark in China when that deal was signed and only brought it up after they discovered the IP App Development Inc/Apple connection. And then demanded scads more money for Apple to buy China. Apple countered that IP App Dev wasn't told this and the papers say "Global rights" so China is part of the deal. But because Proview wanted more money they didn't transfer China with the rest.
The courts in Hong Kong apparently agree that Proview is playing games and Apple acted in good faith and the mark should be theirs. Personally I think that Apple should go to Europe and sue the parent company for acting in bad faith. Perhaps agree to pay a modest amount for the China rights, but based on the pre launch value of the mark not the current. Say no more than the same $50k they paid for the rest of the world.
Unfortunately as one hedge fund manager said at a recent dinner speech in New York, ?the low-skilled American worker is the most overpaid worker in the world.? $16/hr in the US vs <$1/hr elsewhere.
Which just shows that guy's ignorance. Because in most of the world (especially Asia) the cost of living is much smaller for those workers because they get room and board from the companies, they don't have union dues and so on. So the lower pay is having to cover much less. Something he didn't consider in his comment
I hope Apple and every other American company that out-sources its manufacturing take this as a lesson why it's better "Made in American by Americans." China might have been good for the bottom line in the past but not so much anymore, particularly with right-to-work States. The US Government today loves to regulate. They should legislate an end to out-sourcing without a heavy tax burden. Sure it's protectionism and goes against my Republican proclivities but I believe if you want American protection for your company, then your product should be made in American by Americans.
Call me what you want. I don't care.
What an incredibly naive post. And I didn't call you anything.
Kind of. A company, later revealed to be either Apple using a false name or one working on Apple's behalf, bought the 'global rights' to the trademark from Proview's Europe parent office for something like $50k. Apparently Europe never mentioned that they in fact don't control the mark in China when that deal was signed and only brought it up after they discovered the IP App Development Inc/Apple connection. And then demanded scads more money for Apple to buy China. Apple countered that IP App Dev wasn't told this and the papers say "Global rights" so China is part of the deal. But because Proview wanted more money they didn't transfer China with the rest.
The courts in Hong Kong apparently agree that Proview is playing games and Apple acted in good faith and the mark should be theirs. Personally I think that Apple should go to Europe and sue the parent company for acting in bad faith. Perhaps agree to pay a modest amount for the China rights, but based on the pre launch value of the mark not the current. Say no more than the same $50k they paid for the rest of the world.
The fact that it was originally sold for a measly $50k implies that they weren't really using the trademark or, if they were, it wasn't a successful product. How in the world could they possibly have suffered $1.6B USD in damages? Lol.
Would anyone mind terribly if I jumped up and down, screaming "I don't care! I don't care! I don't care!" in response to this?
Frankly, if iI have to face one more iWord, iI am going to dr iVe to Cupert iNo to comm iT an iDrivebiEye, in defense of what's left of the English language.
Given that our elected officials have proved themselves manifestly useless when it comes to legislating anything that actually matters, might we at least get them to forbid trademarking any word that can't be found in, say, the Scrabble dictionary?
Except of course for eCrap?. I think we really need to hang on to eCrap?. That's a definite yes to eCrap?, and a resounding no to everth iNg else.
Apple's "i" products are assaulting the English language? Product names are rarely simple words out of a dictionary; they're often original words, combinations of existing words, or something similar. They're designed to be memorable. They aren't added to the dictionary unless the brandname becomes so synonymous with the product category that it is commonly used as a generic term (i.e. "kleenex").
If you prevent trademarking a word if it's not found in the dictionary, we're left a reality where all trademarks are week and easily invalidated. Remember when people were screaming that Apple can't have the trademark for "App Store" since they're just common words?
With lights out, scraggly windows, hastily hand painted sign and cloudy skies it doesn't look good for this rogue pirate. It's back to the hills for this hijack company. Let them grow rice.
The ragtag broken wood sign says it with emphasis.
Kind of. A company, later revealed to be either Apple using a false name or one working on Apple's behalf, bought the 'global rights' to the trademark from Proview's Europe parent office for something like $50k. Apparently Europe never mentioned that they in fact don't control the mark in China when that deal was signed and only brought it up after they discovered the IP App Development Inc/Apple connection. And then demanded scads more money for Apple to buy China. Apple countered that IP App Dev wasn't told this and the papers say "Global rights" so China is part of the deal. But because Proview wanted more money they didn't transfer China with the rest.
The courts in Hong Kong apparently agree that Proview is playing games and Apple acted in good faith and the mark should be theirs. Personally I think that Apple should go to Europe and sue the parent company for acting in bad faith. Perhaps agree to pay a modest amount for the China rights, but based on the pre launch value of the mark not the current. Say no more than the same $50k they paid for the rest of the world.
None of us know who knew what when, or whether Apple was bamboozled, or whether Apple was just negligent or whether Apple knew everything, and decided to play games.
Apple bought the mark from Proview Electronics, a company in Taiwan.
Unfortunately, in China, the mark was (and still is) owned by Proview Technology (Shenzhen) Co Ltd, who have no obligations to Apple. Or so says the Chinese Court. Apple is currently appealing this decision.
Proview International Holdings Ltd. owns both the companies mentioned.
What an incredibly naive post. And I didn't call you anything.
I bet there are many people who consider ideas and economic solutions, that they don't agree with, as naive. Idealism and national pride is often called "incredibly naive" in a global economy. It happens in politics daily. It's ignorant to call something "incredibly naive" in an open forum without qualifying the statement with an alternate point of view.
Would anyone mind terribly if I jumped up and down, screaming "I don't care! I don't care! I don't care!" in response to this?
Frankly, if iI have to face one more iWord, iI am going to dr iVe to Cupert iNo to comm iT an iDrivebiEye, in defense of what's left of the English language.
Given that our elected officials have proved themselves manifestly useless when it comes to legislating anything that actually matters, might we at least get them to forbid trademarking any word that can't be found in, say, the Scrabble dictionary?
Except of course for eCrap?. I think we really need to hang on to eCrap?. That's a definite yes to eCrap?, and a resounding no to everth iNg else.
The US is still the biggest manufacturer in the world. In 2010 it manufactured $3.2 trillion worth of goods as against $2.7 trillion in China. US manufacturing has never been higher.
The only reason China has so many more jobs in this sector is that it is a lower tech operation. If you want the US to become lower tech you can have your jobs back, but that would suck.
The way forward is to create new things, new industries...
Excellent. I'm sure this is correct as I have read it before. If only both political parties could work together to determinedly rebuild America all would be well in the New World. The penny jobs should still best be left where they are as China is a budding giant with a huge population and a developing middle (and spending/purchasing) class and Apple products are the super magnets attracting such purchasers. Education and progressive taxation may be the shovels that help our US friends conquer their fears. Minimum wage jobs are not going to grow the American shrinking middle class, the harbinger of progress.
There's a last chance opportunity afoot for America to reach tall and I believe it shall be done.
Unfortunately as one hedge fund manager said at a recent dinner speech in New York, ?the low-skilled American worker is the most overpaid worker in the world.? $16/hr in the US vs <$1/hr elsewhere.
I guess this is why there are millions of low-skilled workers in the US who work at the minimum wage. They'd love to make $16/Hr. but are happy to have a job. That hedge fund manager is living in his own generalities and stereotypes with his unfortunate comments. Workers at Foxconn are not making under a dollar(US) an hour. Low-skilled Chinese workers at Foxconn are doing much better than the average Chinese worker. Reality is quite different.
Comments
I didn't know those statistics. I'm glad to hear them if true. About the way forward, that might be very true, at least I agree with it, but wisdom also says never burn your bridges! There are plenty of low-tech people, here in the USA, who would love to have those jobs. Besides, just last week in the news it was said that Foxconn hires more engineers than most American companies do.
With trademark issue, it doesn't matter where the iPads are made. China is a huge market for Apple, and the trademark dispute would arise even if the iPads were made in the US (which is preposterous). So long as we pay people to not work, they will never accept work like assembling iPads.
It really doesn't sound like Proview has any case. The High Court of the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region seems like's in line with most suspected. Even if China doesn't see it the same way if I were Apple I would spend even more money paying out to Chinese officials to crush Proview than pay Proview off just to make a make a point.
Totally. Apple must not give into extortion from Proview. Far better to give into extortion from Chinese officials. (I'm only half joking -- at least the government is a bit more enlightened in its extortionist tendencies)
Another way to make a point would be to play up Brazilian production of iPads in the Chinese media.
An even better thing to do is to go beyond symbolic points and truly diversify the geography of iDevice production. Apple needs to start producing significant volumes of iDevices in North and South America so as not to be so dependent on a country (China) that is deeply corrupt. Of course, it's a tricky balance to strike, because China is also an important market that is becoming more important all the time. And eventually China might develop into a country where the rule of law means something. So Apple doesn't want to offend the Chinese people.
I suspect Proview was a Taiwanese company at first, got into financial trouble, like many other companies in similar situation, went to China and raised money from the local Chinese government, and bought out shares of the Taiwanese company shares.
This may be why the local court is on Proview's side, claiming "global" does not mean China domestic, claiming Chinese trademark laws are complicated... etc. trying to get a big payday.
I think eventually, Apple will have to go to the Beijing Supreme Court or something, and have the central government overriding the local rulings and Proview officials might get arrested for corruption charges.
If you researched this and know this to be fact, great then say so and post the links to the information. This isn't a contest so what is the point of guessing? If everybody posted their guesses then we'd have pages and pages of pointless garbage.
If you researched this and know this to be fact, great then say so and post the links to the information. This isn't a contest so what is the point of guessing? If everybody posted their guesses then we'd have pages and pages of pointless garbage.
OMG! Surely not!
Abandoned Proview facility in Shenzhen, China. | Credit: Caixin
wow, straight from the game "LEFT 4 DEAD 2". OMG it's real! it's real! run from the zombies! run run i say RUN...
The timing doesn't make a lot of sense. If Apple bought the trademark in 2006, Apple had 4 years to make sure Proview transferred the trademark before the iPad was announced. Did Proview back out of the iPad trademark transfer process BEFORE they figured out that the buyer was secretly Apple?
None of it makes any sense to me.
Why did Apple bring suit in Hong Kong claiming a China trademark?
Why didn't Apple plead these facts in the China court, or in the China Appeals court?
This may be why the local court is on Proview's side, claiming "global" does not mean China domestic, claiming Chinese trademark laws are complicated... etc. trying to get a big payday.
Does anybody know if the relevant documents were in English? Lots of peopel are riffing on the word "global", including the news sources. But was the contract in english or mandarin?
I didn't know those statistics. I'm glad to hear them if true. About the way forward, that might be very true, at least I agree with it, but wisdom also says never burn your bridges! There are plenty of low-tech people, here in the USA, who would love to have those jobs. Besides, just last week in the news it was said that Foxconn hires more engineers than most American companies do.
Unfortunately as one hedge fund manager said at a recent dinner speech in New York, ?the low-skilled American worker is the most overpaid worker in the world.? $16/hr in the US vs <$1/hr elsewhere.
So they signed an agreement to transfer the trademark to Apple, but didn't actually go to the trademark office and do it. That clarifies things.
Kind of. A company, later revealed to be either Apple using a false name or one working on Apple's behalf, bought the 'global rights' to the trademark from Proview's Europe parent office for something like $50k. Apparently Europe never mentioned that they in fact don't control the mark in China when that deal was signed and only brought it up after they discovered the IP App Development Inc/Apple connection. And then demanded scads more money for Apple to buy China. Apple countered that IP App Dev wasn't told this and the papers say "Global rights" so China is part of the deal. But because Proview wanted more money they didn't transfer China with the rest.
The courts in Hong Kong apparently agree that Proview is playing games and Apple acted in good faith and the mark should be theirs. Personally I think that Apple should go to Europe and sue the parent company for acting in bad faith. Perhaps agree to pay a modest amount for the China rights, but based on the pre launch value of the mark not the current. Say no more than the same $50k they paid for the rest of the world.
Unfortunately as one hedge fund manager said at a recent dinner speech in New York, ?the low-skilled American worker is the most overpaid worker in the world.? $16/hr in the US vs <$1/hr elsewhere.
Which just shows that guy's ignorance. Because in most of the world (especially Asia) the cost of living is much smaller for those workers because they get room and board from the companies, they don't have union dues and so on. So the lower pay is having to cover much less. Something he didn't consider in his comment
I hope Apple and every other American company that out-sources its manufacturing take this as a lesson why it's better "Made in American by Americans." China might have been good for the bottom line in the past but not so much anymore, particularly with right-to-work States. The US Government today loves to regulate. They should legislate an end to out-sourcing without a heavy tax burden. Sure it's protectionism and goes against my Republican proclivities but I believe if you want American protection for your company, then your product should be made in American by Americans.
Call me what you want. I don't care.
What an incredibly naive post. And I didn't call you anything.
None of it makes any sense to me.
Why did Apple bring suit in Hong Kong claiming a China trademark?
Why didn't Apple plead these facts in the China court, or in the China Appeals court?
HK has a better grasp of the rule of law. Not quite East Texas to draw parallels... More like Deleware.
Kind of. A company, later revealed to be either Apple using a false name or one working on Apple's behalf, bought the 'global rights' to the trademark from Proview's Europe parent office for something like $50k. Apparently Europe never mentioned that they in fact don't control the mark in China when that deal was signed and only brought it up after they discovered the IP App Development Inc/Apple connection. And then demanded scads more money for Apple to buy China. Apple countered that IP App Dev wasn't told this and the papers say "Global rights" so China is part of the deal. But because Proview wanted more money they didn't transfer China with the rest.
The courts in Hong Kong apparently agree that Proview is playing games and Apple acted in good faith and the mark should be theirs. Personally I think that Apple should go to Europe and sue the parent company for acting in bad faith. Perhaps agree to pay a modest amount for the China rights, but based on the pre launch value of the mark not the current. Say no more than the same $50k they paid for the rest of the world.
The fact that it was originally sold for a measly $50k implies that they weren't really using the trademark or, if they were, it wasn't a successful product. How in the world could they possibly have suffered $1.6B USD in damages? Lol.
Would anyone mind terribly if I jumped up and down, screaming "I don't care! I don't care! I don't care!" in response to this?
Frankly, if iI have to face one more iWord, iI am going to dr iVe to Cupert iNo to comm iT an iDrivebiEye, in defense of what's left of the English language.
Given that our elected officials have proved themselves manifestly useless when it comes to legislating anything that actually matters, might we at least get them to forbid trademarking any word that can't be found in, say, the Scrabble dictionary?
Except of course for eCrap?. I think we really need to hang on to eCrap?. That's a definite yes to eCrap?, and a resounding no to everth iNg else.
Apple's "i" products are assaulting the English language? Product names are rarely simple words out of a dictionary; they're often original words, combinations of existing words, or something similar. They're designed to be memorable. They aren't added to the dictionary unless the brandname becomes so synonymous with the product category that it is commonly used as a generic term (i.e. "kleenex").
If you prevent trademarking a word if it's not found in the dictionary, we're left a reality where all trademarks are week and easily invalidated. Remember when people were screaming that Apple can't have the trademark for "App Store" since they're just common words?
Please unbunch your panties.
The ragtag broken wood sign says it with emphasis.
Kind of. A company, later revealed to be either Apple using a false name or one working on Apple's behalf, bought the 'global rights' to the trademark from Proview's Europe parent office for something like $50k. Apparently Europe never mentioned that they in fact don't control the mark in China when that deal was signed and only brought it up after they discovered the IP App Development Inc/Apple connection. And then demanded scads more money for Apple to buy China. Apple countered that IP App Dev wasn't told this and the papers say "Global rights" so China is part of the deal. But because Proview wanted more money they didn't transfer China with the rest.
The courts in Hong Kong apparently agree that Proview is playing games and Apple acted in good faith and the mark should be theirs. Personally I think that Apple should go to Europe and sue the parent company for acting in bad faith. Perhaps agree to pay a modest amount for the China rights, but based on the pre launch value of the mark not the current. Say no more than the same $50k they paid for the rest of the world.
None of us know who knew what when, or whether Apple was bamboozled, or whether Apple was just negligent or whether Apple knew everything, and decided to play games.
Apple bought the mark from Proview Electronics, a company in Taiwan.
Unfortunately, in China, the mark was (and still is) owned by Proview Technology (Shenzhen) Co Ltd, who have no obligations to Apple. Or so says the Chinese Court. Apple is currently appealing this decision.
Proview International Holdings Ltd. owns both the companies mentioned.
What an incredibly naive post. And I didn't call you anything.
I bet there are many people who consider ideas and economic solutions, that they don't agree with, as naive. Idealism and national pride is often called "incredibly naive" in a global economy. It happens in politics daily. It's ignorant to call something "incredibly naive" in an open forum without qualifying the statement with an alternate point of view.
Would anyone mind terribly if I jumped up and down, screaming "I don't care! I don't care! I don't care!" in response to this?
Frankly, if iI have to face one more iWord, iI am going to dr iVe to Cupert iNo to comm iT an iDrivebiEye, in defense of what's left of the English language.
Given that our elected officials have proved themselves manifestly useless when it comes to legislating anything that actually matters, might we at least get them to forbid trademarking any word that can't be found in, say, the Scrabble dictionary?
Except of course for eCrap?. I think we really need to hang on to eCrap?. That's a definite yes to eCrap?, and a resounding no to everth iNg else.
You make a good point, Ms iPrune.
The US is still the biggest manufacturer in the world. In 2010 it manufactured $3.2 trillion worth of goods as against $2.7 trillion in China. US manufacturing has never been higher.
The only reason China has so many more jobs in this sector is that it is a lower tech operation. If you want the US to become lower tech you can have your jobs back, but that would suck.
The way forward is to create new things, new industries...
Excellent. I'm sure this is correct as I have read it before. If only both political parties could work together to determinedly rebuild America all would be well in the New World. The penny jobs should still best be left where they are as China is a budding giant with a huge population and a developing middle (and spending/purchasing) class and Apple products are the super magnets attracting such purchasers. Education and progressive taxation may be the shovels that help our US friends conquer their fears. Minimum wage jobs are not going to grow the American shrinking middle class, the harbinger of progress.
There's a last chance opportunity afoot for America to reach tall and I believe it shall be done.
Unfortunately as one hedge fund manager said at a recent dinner speech in New York, ?the low-skilled American worker is the most overpaid worker in the world.? $16/hr in the US vs <$1/hr elsewhere.
I guess this is why there are millions of low-skilled workers in the US who work at the minimum wage. They'd love to make $16/Hr. but are happy to have a job. That hedge fund manager is living in his own generalities and stereotypes with his unfortunate comments. Workers at Foxconn are not making under a dollar(US) an hour. Low-skilled Chinese workers at Foxconn are doing much better than the average Chinese worker. Reality is quite different.