. . . there is only one thing that matters here, whether the story is close to the truth or far from it.
People here are not so much questioning the "truth" of the story's details, they are questioning the unfairness of focusing exclusively on Apple, and the unfairness of ignoring the larger background issues, such as what Apple has aleady been doing.
It's not that. It's that you are assuming Apple is wrong and NYT is right. The best available 3rd party evidence is the Fair Labor association which comes down on Apple's side.
You said "Apple are not the innocent underdogs in dire need of our protection. When Apple messes up, or is doing something badly, they deserve to be called out on it like anyone else," which is absolutely true, but the same applies to the NYT.
Does the Ferrari factory worker own a Ferrari? ...
iPads are a high priced luxury item.
No, they are not. That's why I picked them. Luxury items are high end MacBook Airs, not to mention Mac Pros.
But I'm in a generous mood. I'll lower the bar to the iPod Touch. They can't afford those either.
The Ferrari worker might not own a Ferrari (a new one), but every Ferrari worker can buy a decent car. That's the analogy. (Actually, it's closer to the idea that a Cadillac worker can buy a Chevy.)
I wonder if The Verge will become The New Gizmodo. They weren't given any special treatment in the Mountain Lion press rollout. No keynote-for-one like Gruber got. Could be enough to trigger an anti-Apple snark-fest over there.
OK. Yeah. Maybe that was a little harsh. The Verge crew have apparently already figured out how to use spellcheckers, and may have actually read Strunk & White's "The Elements of Style." Two things that are apparently beyond the grasp of the Gizmodo kiddies.
The Verge is still new so I think that explains it. They are also balanced for a tech news site. I'm a big fan of their page layouts and coding. It's attractive and loads quickly compared to other sites.
It was hardly a hit piece. Judging by what Apple publicised shortly before the story hit, leaked comments immediately afterwards, and additional measures they have since introduced, Apple knows there's a real problem. If the NYT articles does anything to help improve working conditions for some Foxconn employees then it will been well worth the while. I think slightly more important than an invite to a top secret OS X unveiling event.
It seems everyone who dares say anything negative about an Apple product is a known Apple hater. Consumer Reports during the iPhone 4 antenna debacle is a case in point. CR had a whole history of highly recommending Apple products up to that point. But the moment they dissed the sacred iPhone 4, they were denounced as well known Apple haters by the glorious followers.
I love Apple products. I'm surrounded by them in my home. But I'll never understand why there are so many ardent fanatics who get butthurt every time someone dares publish something negative about the company. Apple are not the innocent underdogs in dire need of our protection. When Apple messes up, or is doing something badly, they deserve to be called out on it like anyone else.
Agree with you 100%.
Remember thou, that a lot of the frothing Apple zealots on this site are investors. A negative light on Apple is a negative light on them and their god.
To you and me and other sane people, Apple devices are technology gadgets and computing devices - to them, they are idols to be worshiped and CEO's are their clergy. Their rewards are monies and riches that they did nothing to earn.
These sick psychophants dont care about child exploitation or an inhabitable planet - not as long as their false god continues to reward them.
Apple's attempt to control the message through the medium will not be successful. Freedom has always found a way to weave through tyrany much more potent then a psudo american company like Apple.
People here are not so much questioning the "truth" of the story's details, they are questioning the unfairness of focusing exclusively on Apple, and the unfairness of ignoring the larger background issues, such as what Apple has aleady been doing.
Why do you refuse to see this distinction?
Because Apple is #1 now. It's natural, not contrived, that they will draw the most attention. Also, what Apple has been doing is pretty common. Nokia has been doing audits for years. Apple is one of the better ones, but it is by no means alone, and frankly none of them are that great.
Sounds like Apple is treating those that print false misleading stories fairly to me. There the ones that are acting like 15 year olds and printing whatever they feel like without any facts to back them up with. Just recently inspectors went through Foxconn's factories and were surprised as to how great the working conditions were.
No violations what so ever. Print what you like, but don't print without some facts to back them up with. New York Times should publish a with drawl story and apologize to Apple. It's easy to assume things, it's harder to gain the facts and apparently NYT wasn't interested in the facts this time.
Seems the New York Times has decided to declare war on Apple. Seems an odd choice, but so be it.
Sigh. .... . I keep harping on this paranoid theory of mine. NYT is a failing paper, possible?
Hedge funds are heavily invested in Apple, true? Maybe NYT got paid by hedge reps to focus the story on Apple?
The timing of all of this just floors me. Apple hits $500 and soars past that, then all of a sudden five big negative Apple stories made out of rehashed news from prior weeks/months/years.
There's even a play out there, The Agony and ecstasy of Steve jobs. The big fat producer of that play is doing the talk show circuit. That show took some longer term planning I'll admit, but it's part of the landscape I'm complaining about. It didn't help when the guy shows up on John Stuart wearing a shirt with dominoes embroidered on it. Wait, that does sound paranoid.
Oh, are we at that time of the month when options expire? Oh my goodness, here's Apples CEO TALKING to Goldman Sachs and the share price is going UP we can't have that! Call CNN !!!!!
Why are w talking about NYT and CNN and Apple haters??? Got nothin to do with much.
I submit this is the hedge funds forcing their way yet again. The media are such lapdogs it don't take much to get them all to run with something then you can get a chain reaction going.
It takes a STRONG stomach to stay with this stock. Some of you new stockholders need to get a grip out there. The positive stories will come out when Apple does another cool thing, and when the hedge funds want that kind of story pushed to suit their particular investments at the time.
I'm not gonna claim everything is due to the hedge funds re Apple, but it's looking mighty suspicious. Just watch CNBC stock channel for a couple weeks and you'll start to see this amazing timing. Hell, they even TELL you when the plug is about to get pulled and to go take your profits now, buy back in at X price.
Because Apple is #1 now. It's natural, not contrived, that they will draw the most attention. Also, what Apple has been doing is pretty common. Nokia has been doing audits for years. Apple is one of the better ones, but it is by no means alone, and frankly none of them are that great.
You're right. It's natural that number one will attract the most attention from the feeble-minded rabble. People of generous spirit and intellect will look at the whole picture and focus on the unfairness of uneven economic development around the world.
What's going on in this period in history is that China is developing, while the post-industrial areas are looking for their next economic role. You are not helping by prattling about what we already know is unfair.
Gizmodo subsequently acted as the ringleader behind 2010's "Antennagate" accusations that the iPhone 4's antenna was improperly designed, then acted as a sounding board for the 2011 sequel dramatically headlined "iSpy Conspiracy: Your iPhone Is Secretly Tracking Everywhere You?ve Been, All The Time," an media event that required Apple to host a press briefing and answer questions posed by concerned Congressmen.
\\-fənt also -ˌfant\\\\ˈsi-kə-fənt also ˈsī- & -ˌfant\\
Definition of SYCOPHANT
: a servile self-seeking flatterer
Quote:
Originally Posted by rain
Remember thou, that a lot of the frothing Apple zealots on this site are investors. A negative light on Apple is a negative light on them and their god.
To you and me and other sane people, Apple devices are technology gadgets and computing devices - to them, they are idols to be worshiped and CEO's are their clergy. Their rewards are monies and riches that they did nothing to earn.
These sick psychophants dont care about child exploitation or an inhabitable planet - not as long as their false god continues to reward them.
Zuh?
Wait, so the devices are idols, and who's the god, "Apple" (the company)? So that would make Apple stores, what, temples? Well, that explains the child sacrifices at the mall. Oh, and that means the new Apple 'spaceship' campus would be the mothership, which explains why the Apple god isn't worried about an inhabitable planet. The mothership will take the iPod-people to the iHomeworld. And ... the monies (and the riches too) only go to the shareholders? So you're only a zealot if you own stock? Does that mean you can only be a, what, wild-eyed fanatic if you don't own stock? What if I get an iTunes gift card for my birthday? That's 'riches' of a sort (or monies at the least) - does that make me a zealot, or a fanatic? Maybe just an acolyte?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rain
Apple's attempt to control the message through the medium will not be successful. Freedom has always found a way to weave through tyrany much more potent then a psudo american company like Apple.
Yeah man, Apple stole my freedom! Down with the tyrannical iMan! They're brainwashing me through my iPhone with their iRays.
I've always said there's no better way to make a logical point than with an incoherent rant.
lol is that so? Do you know something that one of the largest papers in this country doesn't?
The NYT loves Apple and their products. So there's zero incentive for them to publish anything inflammatory unless it's true.
Amazing how The Cult of Apple responds to negative things about Their Perfect Company,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody
Seems fair to me.
Yellow journalism is yellow journalism whether it's practiced by a bunch of high school kids or the old farts on the New York Times. They knew they were publishing half-truths and untruths. Que sera sera as Doris Day would say.
If Apple continued to treat them like other news sources it would send the wrong message. If only other companies, government agencies and so on would do the same then we wouldn't be subjected to so much crap and lies disguised as entertainment and "news."
And their coverage of the BP spill in the Gulf was pathetic. There were photos in most blogs for weeks before the Times finally started publishing them.
So I come here not to praise the Times. I am not a subscriber and won't be any time soon.
But I am also deeply unhappy about the path the computer industry has taken. It's not just working conditions, it's also that China is largely coal powered and the contractor companies dump toxic waste, etc.
I'd rather pay more for my gear if that's what it takes to obtain not only quality but an end-to-end supply, sales, and recycling product cycle that is not an insult to nature or people.
Apple is failing here just like all the others. But I care more about Apple because I am an Apple customer, and because I already knew the others were mediocre companies.
What is frustrating is that I cannot vote with my feet. The whole industry is essentially the same, and some of it is considerably worse. All I can do is buy the minimum I need and make it last as long as possible, but I still feel like an enabler of these practices.
To paraphrase Cook, I find it offensive that the tech industry, Apple included, has fostered working conditions worthy of mid 19th-century England.
My opinion is that Apple came back from near death to face a tech environment that was so competitive that they had not much choice but to scale up in the far east like all the others, just to get the good stuff made at all.
Apple is at an inflection point, I'm sure they know it. They are pretty good about responding to people's concerns, in fact they are extraordinary at it. They are as proactive as they can be and still be human.
I don't pretend to know when or how, but I feel that Apple is going to do all in their power to stay in business while a piece at a time work towards an end to end supply that is not an insult to nature or people. It will take some time though. Peace.
. . . The NYT loves Apple and their products. So there's zero incentive for them to publish anything inflammatory unless it's true.
Amazing how The Cult of Apple responds to negative things about Their Perfect Company,
Still don't get it?
One more time. If they're going to do this story, which may be true and not made up, they are not being fair if they single out Apple from the whole industry, and if they do not also single out Apple's unusual efforts to monitor their suppliers.
That's it. The truth of the stories' details are not in question.
It's sorta' like a petting zoo. They come to the fence and bleat pathetically, you feed them a handful of kibble then pat their heads. You feel bad for them being all penned in, but eventually you get bored and wander away anyhow.
It's sorta' like a petting zoo. They come to the fence and bleat pathetically, you feed them a handful of kibble then pat their heads. You feel bad for them being all penned in, but eventually you get bored and wander away anyhow.
Is it wrong to want to free the animals, or take them out for a walk just so they will cheer up for a little while?
Is it wrong to want to free the animals, or take them out for a walk just so they will cheer up for a little while?
I had a pet troll once. I thought I'd be nice and I set him free in the woods. I found him a few days later - damned chipmunks ate him alive. Poor troll.
Moral of the story: Trolls are too dumb to be left out on their own. It's better if you just play with them every once in a while to keep them happy.
Comments
. . . there is only one thing that matters here, whether the story is close to the truth or far from it.
People here are not so much questioning the "truth" of the story's details, they are questioning the unfairness of focusing exclusively on Apple, and the unfairness of ignoring the larger background issues, such as what Apple has aleady been doing.
Why do you refuse to see this distinction?
It's not that. It's that you are assuming Apple is wrong and NYT is right. The best available 3rd party evidence is the Fair Labor association which comes down on Apple's side.
You said "Apple are not the innocent underdogs in dire need of our protection. When Apple messes up, or is doing something badly, they deserve to be called out on it like anyone else," which is absolutely true, but the same applies to the NYT.
Exactly so.
Does the Ferrari factory worker own a Ferrari? ...
iPads are a high priced luxury item.
No, they are not. That's why I picked them. Luxury items are high end MacBook Airs, not to mention Mac Pros.
But I'm in a generous mood. I'll lower the bar to the iPod Touch. They can't afford those either.
The Ferrari worker might not own a Ferrari (a new one), but every Ferrari worker can buy a decent car. That's the analogy. (Actually, it's closer to the idea that a Cadillac worker can buy a Chevy.)
I wonder if The Verge will become The New Gizmodo. They weren't given any special treatment in the Mountain Lion press rollout. No keynote-for-one like Gruber got. Could be enough to trigger an anti-Apple snark-fest over there.
OK. Yeah. Maybe that was a little harsh. The Verge crew have apparently already figured out how to use spellcheckers, and may have actually read Strunk & White's "The Elements of Style." Two things that are apparently beyond the grasp of the Gizmodo kiddies.
The Verge is still new so I think that explains it. They are also balanced for a tech news site. I'm a big fan of their page layouts and coding. It's attractive and loads quickly compared to other sites.
It was hardly a hit piece. Judging by what Apple publicised shortly before the story hit, leaked comments immediately afterwards, and additional measures they have since introduced, Apple knows there's a real problem. If the NYT articles does anything to help improve working conditions for some Foxconn employees then it will been well worth the while. I think slightly more important than an invite to a top secret OS X unveiling event.
It seems everyone who dares say anything negative about an Apple product is a known Apple hater. Consumer Reports during the iPhone 4 antenna debacle is a case in point. CR had a whole history of highly recommending Apple products up to that point. But the moment they dissed the sacred iPhone 4, they were denounced as well known Apple haters by the glorious followers.
I love Apple products. I'm surrounded by them in my home. But I'll never understand why there are so many ardent fanatics who get butthurt every time someone dares publish something negative about the company. Apple are not the innocent underdogs in dire need of our protection. When Apple messes up, or is doing something badly, they deserve to be called out on it like anyone else.
Agree with you 100%.
Remember thou, that a lot of the frothing Apple zealots on this site are investors. A negative light on Apple is a negative light on them and their god.
To you and me and other sane people, Apple devices are technology gadgets and computing devices - to them, they are idols to be worshiped and CEO's are their clergy. Their rewards are monies and riches that they did nothing to earn.
These sick psychophants dont care about child exploitation or an inhabitable planet - not as long as their false god continues to reward them.
Apple's attempt to control the message through the medium will not be successful. Freedom has always found a way to weave through tyrany much more potent then a psudo american company like Apple.
People here are not so much questioning the "truth" of the story's details, they are questioning the unfairness of focusing exclusively on Apple, and the unfairness of ignoring the larger background issues, such as what Apple has aleady been doing.
Why do you refuse to see this distinction?
Because Apple is #1 now. It's natural, not contrived, that they will draw the most attention. Also, what Apple has been doing is pretty common. Nokia has been doing audits for years. Apple is one of the better ones, but it is by no means alone, and frankly none of them are that great.
http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/...ref=davidpogue
He's been running it for a week:
http://www.celebritytweet.com/Pogue/...4500576927744/
No violations what so ever. Print what you like, but don't print without some facts to back them up with. New York Times should publish a with drawl story and apologize to Apple. It's easy to assume things, it's harder to gain the facts and apparently NYT wasn't interested in the facts this time.
Seems the New York Times has decided to declare war on Apple. Seems an odd choice, but so be it.
Sigh. .... . I keep harping on this paranoid theory of mine. NYT is a failing paper, possible?
Hedge funds are heavily invested in Apple, true? Maybe NYT got paid by hedge reps to focus the story on Apple?
The timing of all of this just floors me. Apple hits $500 and soars past that, then all of a sudden five big negative Apple stories made out of rehashed news from prior weeks/months/years.
There's even a play out there, The Agony and ecstasy of Steve jobs. The big fat producer of that play is doing the talk show circuit. That show took some longer term planning I'll admit, but it's part of the landscape I'm complaining about. It didn't help when the guy shows up on John Stuart wearing a shirt with dominoes embroidered on it. Wait, that does sound paranoid.
Oh, are we at that time of the month when options expire? Oh my goodness, here's Apples CEO TALKING to Goldman Sachs and the share price is going UP we can't have that! Call CNN !!!!!
Why are w talking about NYT and CNN and Apple haters??? Got nothin to do with much.
I submit this is the hedge funds forcing their way yet again. The media are such lapdogs it don't take much to get them all to run with something then you can get a chain reaction going.
It takes a STRONG stomach to stay with this stock. Some of you new stockholders need to get a grip out there. The positive stories will come out when Apple does another cool thing, and when the hedge funds want that kind of story pushed to suit their particular investments at the time.
I'm not gonna claim everything is due to the hedge funds re Apple, but it's looking mighty suspicious. Just watch CNBC stock channel for a couple weeks and you'll start to see this amazing timing. Hell, they even TELL you when the plug is about to get pulled and to go take your profits now, buy back in at X price.
Because Apple is #1 now. It's natural, not contrived, that they will draw the most attention. Also, what Apple has been doing is pretty common. Nokia has been doing audits for years. Apple is one of the better ones, but it is by no means alone, and frankly none of them are that great.
You're right. It's natural that number one will attract the most attention from the feeble-minded rabble. People of generous spirit and intellect will look at the whole picture and focus on the unfairness of uneven economic development around the world.
What's going on in this period in history is that China is developing, while the post-industrial areas are looking for their next economic role. You are not helping by prattling about what we already know is unfair.
Gizmodo subsequently acted as the ringleader behind 2010's "Antennagate" accusations that the iPhone 4's antenna was improperly designed, then acted as a sounding board for the 2011 sequel dramatically headlined "iSpy Conspiracy: Your iPhone Is Secretly Tracking Everywhere You?ve Been, All The Time," an media event that required Apple to host a press briefing and answer questions posed by concerned Congressmen.
[ View article on AppleInsider ]
The real question is, what dark secret lies behind Daniel's habitual use of unnecessary "an's?'
Agree with you 100%.
sy·co·phant noun
\\-fənt also -ˌfant\\\\ˈsi-kə-fənt also ˈsī- & -ˌfant\\
Definition of SYCOPHANT
: a servile self-seeking flatterer
Remember thou, that a lot of the frothing Apple zealots on this site are investors. A negative light on Apple is a negative light on them and their god.
To you and me and other sane people, Apple devices are technology gadgets and computing devices - to them, they are idols to be worshiped and CEO's are their clergy. Their rewards are monies and riches that they did nothing to earn.
These sick psychophants dont care about child exploitation or an inhabitable planet - not as long as their false god continues to reward them.
Zuh?
Wait, so the devices are idols, and who's the god, "Apple" (the company)? So that would make Apple stores, what, temples? Well, that explains the child sacrifices at the mall. Oh, and that means the new Apple 'spaceship' campus would be the mothership, which explains why the Apple god isn't worried about an inhabitable planet. The mothership will take the iPod-people to the iHomeworld. And ... the monies (and the riches too) only go to the shareholders? So you're only a zealot if you own stock? Does that mean you can only be a, what, wild-eyed fanatic if you don't own stock? What if I get an iTunes gift card for my birthday? That's 'riches' of a sort (or monies at the least) - does that make me a zealot, or a fanatic? Maybe just an acolyte?
Apple's attempt to control the message through the medium will not be successful. Freedom has always found a way to weave through tyrany much more potent then a psudo american company like Apple.
Yeah man, Apple stole my freedom! Down with the tyrannical iMan! They're brainwashing me through my iPhone with their iRays.
I've always said there's no better way to make a logical point than with an incoherent rant.
The NYT loves Apple and their products. So there's zero incentive for them to publish anything inflammatory unless it's true.
Amazing how The Cult of Apple responds to negative things about Their Perfect Company,
Seems fair to me.
Yellow journalism is yellow journalism whether it's practiced by a bunch of high school kids or the old farts on the New York Times. They knew they were publishing half-truths and untruths. Que sera sera as Doris Day would say.
If Apple continued to treat them like other news sources it would send the wrong message. If only other companies, government agencies and so on would do the same then we wouldn't be subjected to so much crap and lies disguised as entertainment and "news."
lol is that so? Do you know something that one of the largest papers in this country doesn't?
Hehe, lol. Would you like the list in alphabetical or chronological order?
The NYT loves Apple and their products. So there's zero incentive for them to publish anything inflammatory unless it's true.
It's true what they say about ignorance being bliss.
Amazing how The Cult of Apple responds to negative things about Their Perfect Company,
Yeah, but the fruit punch at the meetings is outstanding.
And their coverage of the BP spill in the Gulf was pathetic. There were photos in most blogs for weeks before the Times finally started publishing them.
So I come here not to praise the Times. I am not a subscriber and won't be any time soon.
But I am also deeply unhappy about the path the computer industry has taken. It's not just working conditions, it's also that China is largely coal powered and the contractor companies dump toxic waste, etc.
I'd rather pay more for my gear if that's what it takes to obtain not only quality but an end-to-end supply, sales, and recycling product cycle that is not an insult to nature or people.
Apple is failing here just like all the others. But I care more about Apple because I am an Apple customer, and because I already knew the others were mediocre companies.
What is frustrating is that I cannot vote with my feet. The whole industry is essentially the same, and some of it is considerably worse. All I can do is buy the minimum I need and make it last as long as possible, but I still feel like an enabler of these practices.
To paraphrase Cook, I find it offensive that the tech industry, Apple included, has fostered working conditions worthy of mid 19th-century England.
My opinion is that Apple came back from near death to face a tech environment that was so competitive that they had not much choice but to scale up in the far east like all the others, just to get the good stuff made at all.
Apple is at an inflection point, I'm sure they know it. They are pretty good about responding to people's concerns, in fact they are extraordinary at it. They are as proactive as they can be and still be human.
I don't pretend to know when or how, but I feel that Apple is going to do all in their power to stay in business while a piece at a time work towards an end to end supply that is not an insult to nature or people. It will take some time though. Peace.
. . . The NYT loves Apple and their products. So there's zero incentive for them to publish anything inflammatory unless it's true.
Amazing how The Cult of Apple responds to negative things about Their Perfect Company,
Still don't get it?
One more time. If they're going to do this story, which may be true and not made up, they are not being fair if they single out Apple from the whole industry, and if they do not also single out Apple's unusual efforts to monitor their suppliers.
That's it. The truth of the stories' details are not in question.
Now do you get it?
The trolls are out and they are being fed.
It's sorta' like a petting zoo. They come to the fence and bleat pathetically, you feed them a handful of kibble then pat their heads. You feel bad for them being all penned in, but eventually you get bored and wander away anyhow.
It's sorta' like a petting zoo. They come to the fence and bleat pathetically, you feed them a handful of kibble then pat their heads. You feel bad for them being all penned in, but eventually you get bored and wander away anyhow.
I had a pet troll once. I thought I'd be nice and I set him free in the woods. I found him a few days later - damned chipmunks ate him alive. Poor troll.
Moral of the story: Trolls are too dumb to be left out on their own. It's better if you just play with them every once in a while to keep them happy.
True story.