Apple rumored to begin production of 7.85" iPad in third quarter of 2012

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  • Reply 81 of 117
    paxmanpaxman Posts: 4,729member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    Even past the technical issues you mention there are marketing issues. To me, branding it an iPod is better than an iPad if they are going to make a cheap alternative to the iPad. For instance, using a TN panel instead of IPS.



    That is an interesting question - how to market such a device.



    As a smaller iPad it would have advantages such as portability, and weight for reading, but the overall usability would be reduced for one obvious reason - screen size. As an iPod it would loose out on portability but definitely gain in all other aspects. As a gaming platform it would be better than either imo., and as the iPod is the premier gaming platform between the two....



    Keeping the price low would be important but Apple wouldn't cut too manny corners in this respect. In the end such a device would offer an alternative to buyers at both ends of the scale, but I suspect it would cannibalize iPod sales more than iPad sales. But whether to call it an iPod or iPad... that's a tough call.
  • Reply 82 of 117
    galbigalbi Posts: 968member
    But...but.. Steve said 7" tablets are going to fail.
  • Reply 83 of 117
    irelandireland Posts: 17,798member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stelligent View Post


    What makes no sense is using absurdly large font size to call attention to oneself and to compensate for who knows what.



    lol, you funny.
  • Reply 84 of 117
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by charlituna View Post


    And of course now that Jobs is dead Apple can dump all his plans and opinions and do whatever they want and will.



    The only reason anyone has given for why Apple would make a 7" inch iPad is to beat the Fire. But based on the numbers (3 million Kindle models of any kind sold last quarter for example), the iPad is already beating it at the present cost and size. So why fix what ain't broke.



    If anything is coming out of these rumors it is more likely to be a slightly larger iPod touch that could focus on the whole gaming thing. Great for the kids, great as a controller for those AirPlay friendly games like Real Racing and so on. But it will be an iPod scaling up the ipod/iphone apps, not an iPad scaling down. There's no need for it to be otherwise



    Hello to all...



    Id like to remind people that even if this rumor is true, you will have to think about one of Apple's most prized possessions... THEIR PROFIT!!!!



    When the iPad came out, if I remember right, even their stock took a hit in relation to the lower margins Apple would incur because of this.



    Now look at the fire.... Amazon is LITERALLY either LOSING money or barely breaking even with that thing and even then it is a severely limited device!

    This is something Apple would never do so you have to wonder which features will be omitted... The screen, for sure, it wont be IPS, the cameras, def!-you MIGHT get a front camera for face time, memory-8GB or less plus cloud storage, processor-gotta be at least A5, network, WiFi only, but it would otherwise be a fully functional tablet!



    Apple would have to figure out how to keep at least a 30% margin while delivering a device worthy of the Apple brand.
  • Reply 85 of 117
    irelandireland Posts: 17,798member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    There are always reasons for having multiple sizes.



    Fragmentation, consumer confusion, 10" is a better size for a tablet (the number one reason), 3.5" is pocket size and better for your mobile phone, a more focused set up products for developers etc. There are too many reasons why an 7.85" iPad makes no sense, especially when you consider the way Apple operates. Restraint is one of Apple's quality that no other company seems to be able to recognize and copy, and it's probably the reason above all else as to their success. A 7.85" iPad or iPod is not happening.
  • Reply 86 of 117
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Galbi View Post


    But...but.. Steve said 7" tablets are going to fail.



    Really? Do you have a quote from Steve where he stated that all such devices with a 7" display will fail?



    edit:
    Quote:

    “7-inch tablets are tweeners: too big to compete with a smartphone and too small to compete with the iPad,” said Jobs, adding that competing manufacturers were struggling to meet the price point of the iPad, which starts at $500. Both Samsung and RIM have not announced pricing on their tablets.



    “These are among the reasons that the current crop of 7-inch tablets are going to be DOA — dead on arrival,” Jobs said during the earnings call.



    If that quote is accurate Steve clearly referred to the current 7" tablets (and he was right). Do you have any evidence that no 7" touchscreen device can be viable?
  • Reply 87 of 117
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by freediverx View Post


    Lots of people bought netbooks for a while due to their portability and low price. They were drawn by the wow factor of owning a tiny notebook computer at a price far below the average for a typical notebook. Later this market died off when users finally realized they were pieces of junk.



    The color Kindles sell well because they're cheap enough to make them seem like an appealing purchase for consumers who can't afford an iPad and because they're tied into Amazon's well established marketplace. Most reviews so far have pointed out their poor build quality, performance, UI and overall user experience. Once the wow factor of owning your first tablet wears off, people will see its flaws and start craving a higher quality device. Todays' Kindle owners are tomorrow's iPad switchers, especially as iPads become more affordable.



    The iPhone is the perfect size for a device that's always with you, carried in your pocket. IPad is the perfect size for a highly portable, lightweight device providing a larger screen size and days' of battery life. MacBooks fill the need for a fully cable portable computer with even larger screens, more power, etc. Each product in Apple's lineup fits a distinct niche.



    I





    You could easily make the opposite argument and say that loads of people will switch down when they realise all they want to do is have a decent e-reader, something to surf the web/movies and answer their mail. The Kindle does all of that. If they can get a device that does it 90% as well for 50% less then I would imagine most will take it.
  • Reply 88 of 117
    paxmanpaxman Posts: 4,729member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Galbi View Post


    But...but.. Steve said 7" tablets are going to fail.



    I know you are not really being serious here, but nonetheless, I think any reference to what Steve said regarding this or any other product plans needs to be prefaced with: "At the time...". And then answered with: "Yeah, well, Steve said lots of things".



    Oh, and what Solip said.
  • Reply 89 of 117
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,429member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CarlosViscarra View Post


    Hello to all...



    Id like to remind people that even if this rumor is true, you will have to think about one of Apple's most prized possessions... THEIR PROFIT!!!!



    When the iPad came out, if I remember right, even their stock took a hit in relation to the lower margins Apple would incur because of this.



    Now look at the fire.... Amazon is LITERALLY either LOSING money or barely breaking even with that thing and even then it is a severely limited device!

    This is something Apple would never do so you have to wonder which features will be omitted... The screen, for sure, it wont be IPS, the cameras, def!-you MIGHT get a front camera for face time, memory-8GB or less plus cloud storage, processor-gotta be at least A5, network, WiFi only, but it would otherwise be a fully functional tablet!



    Apple would have to figure out how to keep at least a 30% margin while delivering a device worthy of the Apple brand.



    i don't think anyone expects an iPad 7" at $200 but $300 spec'd well enough would work. It's not really about what other tablets have failed. They failed not because of their size but because Android OS and Blackberry OS were inferior to iOS. People don't want tablets they want iPads.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    Fragmentation, consumer confusion, 10" is a better size for a tablet (the number one reason), 3.5" is pocket size and better for your mobile phone, a more focused set up products for developers etc. There are too many reasons why an 7.85" iPad makes no sense, especially when you consider the way Apple operates. Restraint is one of Apple's quality that no other company seems to be able to recognize and copy, and it's probably the reason above all else as to their success. A 7.85" iPad or iPod is not happening.



    consumer confusion is a strawman Ireland. Apple's advertising clearly shows how iCloud tethers and iPhone, iPod Touch and iPad to a Mac. There is no confusion there is only ecosystem.



    If consumers purchased 3.5 inch iPhones and iPod Touch by the millions then it's stretches credulity to believe that suddenly they become lost on a screen that is twice as large as when they have in their pocket.



    At this time all bets are off on how Apple operates as witnessed by how they granted early access to Mountain Lion to popular journalist and bloggers.



    I understand your point of view here but I just don't think it's persuasive in light of millions of sales of Kindle Fire which shows that



    A. Small tablets are acceptable within a given price range

    B. Price is an issue with consumers.
  • Reply 90 of 117
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    There are always reasons for having multiple sizes.



    I never agreed with Steve about 7" tablets. I had no issue with the 7" form factor other than it's very poor in a 16x9 configuration.



    The problem with small screens has be solved with the iPhone. Pinch to Zoom,Reader, Pop overs and more UI elements. The problem with the lack of the physical keyboard has been helped by Siri.



    I chatted with a Doctor once that said he went into an Apple store with a lab coat on to see if the iPad fit in his coat. It didn't.



    I'm not saying this has to be a $200 product but it would make hay at $299.



    The reason why this rumor keeps cropping up because it's basic business. The iPad doesn't need to be cheap but it down need to go downmarket a bit.



    Apple takes a 30% cut on all paid products on the iTunes store. Increasing the size of overall pie is desirous.





    It would take a fool to think Apple is not "EXPLORING" the idea of taking on the smaller tablet market.... But Im sure even some of these protoypes which have made their way into the hands of loose-lipped bozos are from before the real iPad era... Apple made it clear they toyed with dozens of form factors and screen sizes before settling on the ideal size, iPad....



    You have to remember that most tech journalists are full blown hardware and software geeks who fantasize about specs and features that the mainstream couldnt care less about such as SD card slots and 28 USB ports around the rim or HDMI...



    So the fantasy of the 7" tablet is a tech geek's wet dream!

    What else do these geeks LUST after that Apple only cares to accessorize?

    Lets see shall we....



    These geeks have the mentality that if it can be done, if it can fit, and if it can be used by even one person then it should be included.... That is bologna!!!!!



    Id bet that between 80-90% of users will never use an SD card slot-Im one of them



    Id bet that the same 80-90% would never spend their time bragging to their friend about how much RAM is in the device or how fast the processor is and how it translates to cycles per second measured in the billions.... (GHz),



    Id bet again, 80-90% of folks wont ever hook up their iPad to their TV with HDMI... Dont beleive me? How many people do you know that owns a computer or laptop? How many of those people insist on or make habits of plunging their computer into their TV?



    What about USB ports???

    Well, what do you use USB ports for?

    A mouse?-CHECK, Apple iDevices use touchscreens (shut up, u know i dont mean iMacs)

    A keyboard?-Check! software keyboards work GREAT!!!

    Specialty devices? YEAH! MAYBE 5-20% of users need specialty devices.... So buy the USB adatper...



    you get my drift?
  • Reply 91 of 117
    Edited
  • Reply 92 of 117
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by paxman View Post


    I know you are not really being serious here, but nonetheless, I think any reference to what Steve said regarding this or any other product plans needs to be prefaced with: "At the time...". And then answered with: "Yeah, well, Steve said lots of things".



    Oh, and what Solip said.



    Steve ALSO said he would never lets MS Windows users get their hands on the iPod or iTunes!



    Steve Jobs might be super human, immortal, and probably the smartest greatest genius to ever live... But he was still human. Given his unmatched success (money does not equal success), id say give him a break... for every mistake he made, he was right twice, he changed the world ten times over!!!
  • Reply 93 of 117
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Scaramanga89 View Post


    You could easily make the opposite argument and say that loads of people will switch down when they realise all they want to do is have a decent e-reader, something to surf the web/movies and answer their mail. The Kindle does all of that. If they can get a device that does it 90% as well for 50% less then I would imagine most will take it.



    Please google anything regarding satisfaction ratings with the Kindle Fire, then you can come back here to edit your comment.
  • Reply 94 of 117
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,429member
    True Carlos. I guess the easiest way to really just break down the Pros and Cons of a smaller iPad.





    Pro



    Price- The ability to hit sub $300 price points with a smaller screen

    Resolution - Developers do not have to redo artwork

    Size -pocketable. Great if you want to use iPads for checkins, Point of Sale and other biz uses

    Market impact - brings a large amount of consumer and business opportunities into the fold. Keeps developers happy with a platform that is growing.





    Con



    Price- Reduction of iPad cachet? Squeezes iPod Touch higher end models in price.

    Resolution - smaller text, smaller icons, potentially smaller touch zones.

    Size - Could affect overall battery life,

    Market Impact - Cannibalization of larger iPad. Adds another device to source and support
  • Reply 95 of 117
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by freediverx View Post


    That segment of the market will be served by Apple offering last year's model at a lower price point, as they currently do wit the iPhone. Fragmenting the platform by creating an unnecessary new form factor is stupid.



    Can I add that Amazon has not revealed their profit/operating margin on the Kindle Fire?



    Despite selling MILLIONS of Fires how much net profit did they walk away with?



    How long can they continue to do this?



    Now that video chatting is really taking off, will they LOWER their possibly non-existant margin of today to add a camera? If they dont will people switch to video-chat enabled tablets?



    I used a Fire for a few days and quickly realized why it was selling, and why it wont succeed much more as evidenced by amazons reported scale-back of production.
  • Reply 96 of 117
    stelligentstelligent Posts: 2,680member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    There are always reasons for having multiple sizes.



    I never agreed with Steve about 7" tablets. I had no issue with the 7" form factor other than it's very poor in a 16x9 configuration.



    The problem with small screens has be solved with the iPhone. Pinch to Zoom,Reader, Pop overs and more UI elements. The problem with the lack of the physical keyboard has been helped by Siri.



    I chatted with a Doctor once that said he went into an Apple store with a lab coat on to see if the iPad fit in his coat. It didn't.



    Tell your doctor friend that the iPad dimensions are published. He could've simply measured his pocket rather than looking stupid in an Apple Store with a lab coat on. I really hope he is not your doctor, for he sounds rather dim.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    I'm not saying this has to be a $200 product but it would make hay at $299.



    A look at the prices of iPod Touch, iPhone and iPad will tell you that there is no proportional drop in COGS (and hence prices) just because a computer (and that's what an iDevice is) is smaller. So don't expect a 7" iPad, if it materializes, to start at $299.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    The reason why this rumor keeps cropping up because it's basic business.



    The reason why this rumor, or any rumor, keeps cropping up is because rumor mongering is an industry. Some do it as a hobby. Some profit from it.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    The iPad doesn't need to be cheap but it down need to go downmarket a bit.



    They sell 10s of millions of units and you want to tell Apple they *need* to go down market? Who the F*** are you to say what they need or don't need?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    Apple takes a 30% cut on all paid products on the iTunes store. Increasing the size of overall pie is desirous.



    Actually, they DON'T take 30% cut on all paid iTunes products.

    And Apple has always found streamlining of product lines to be more desirous than expanding them. Something tells me you feel qualified to school them.



    If and when Apple releases a 7" iPad (or 7.18952"), it will be because they have found a reason to make such an offering. My bet is that the reason will NOT be to increase sales volume just for the sake of it.
  • Reply 97 of 117
    stelligentstelligent Posts: 2,680member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    lol, you funny.



    You're right - it wasn't that funny. I simply don't get the need to post gargantuan photos and use gargantuan fonts. But it's a free world. My apologies for the weak sarcasm.
  • Reply 98 of 117
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,429member
    1A look at the prices of iPod Touch, iPhone and iPad will tell you that there is no proportional drop in COGS (and hence prices) just because a computer (and that's what an iDevice is) is smaller. So don't expect a 7" iPad, if it materializes, to start at $299.



    The missing X-factor here is the margin. The iPod Touch is probably operating at a higher margin than the iPad. COGS are influenced by purchasing. If Apple goes large on volume purchases the differences between the two products can be ameliorated at some level.



    The BoM would be decidedly different as well as there has been significant movement in the ancillary chips necessary to deliver the same functionality as a cheaper cost or improved functionality at the same cost.





    The reason why this rumor, or any rumor, keeps cropping up is because rumor mongering is an industry. Some do it as a hobby. Some profit from it.





    Where there's smoke..there is often fire.



    They sell 10s of millions of units and you want to tell Apple they *need* to go down market? Who the F*** are you to say what they need or don't need?





    And? I was around selling Macs when Apple almost went bankrupt. No company is infallible and today's sales are no guarantee of tomorrow's. Android on tablets isn't going to be deficient forever and one size size does not fit all in the desktop/notebook space nor does it fit all in the tablet space. Sometimes I look at my iPad and think "It'd be great if it was bigger right now and sometimes I think it'd be great if it was smaller"





    And Apple has always found streamlining of product lines to be more desirous than expanding them. Something tells me you feel qualified to school them.





    Correction. After the return of Steve, Apple found product simplification to be essential. However we still see the same strategy here. There's the Macbook Air for more basic users and the Pro and they all come in multiple sizes. An admission that preferences in dimensions will vary amongst customers. Yet now people are attempting to tell me that the iPad is only good in one size? Nay.





    I don't think anyone is trying school Apple. They know what they want and if Apple doesn't deliver then they don't get the sale and the overall numbers tell the tale.



    Without a more affordable iPad the competition will gain ground. This is a numbers game here for mobile devices. Negotiating power is based on these numbers for media deals.
  • Reply 99 of 117
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post


    The missing X-factor here is the margin. The iPod Touch is probably operating at a higher margin than the iPad. COGS are influenced by purchasing. If Apple goes large on volume purchases the differences between the two products can be ameliorated at some level.



    The BoM would be decidedly different as well as there has been significant movement in the ancillary chips necessary to deliver the same functionality as a cheaper cost or improved functionality at the same cost.



    Margin is often higher on cheaper devices. I would expect a 7"-ish iOS-based device to still be profitable from Apple. I don't see any benefit to a loss-leader simply to react to some multimedia eReaders with LCDs. This would have to be priced between the Touch and the iPad and would have to be something that wouldn't still business from the iPad if the profit per unit was lower unless the overall net gain was higher.



    I can see a case for constricted display components that would actually make this an ideal way to equalize pressure on their tablet market by offering a new size. I don't think that it would be an iPad in name. I think the iPod brand needs propping up and by offering it as an iPod Touch HD (or whatever) you can use cheaper and less components without users expecting it to be exactly the same as an iPad but smaller.



    Quote:

    And? I was around selling Macs when Apple almost went bankrupt. No company is infallible and today's sales are no guarantee of tomorrow's. Android on tablets isn't going to be deficient forever and one size size does not fit all in the desktop/notebook space nor does it fit all in the tablet space. Sometimes I look at my iPad and think "It'd be great if it was bigger right now and sometimes I think it'd be great if it was smaller"



    [...]



    Without a more affordable iPad the competition will gain ground. This is a numbers game here for mobile devices. Negotiating power is based on these numbers for media deals.



    I don't think that is necessarily true, especially in regard to the tablet market.



    I see Android OS'es ability to gain a lot of ground to be the same reason the iPhone was able to gain so much ground. To be clear, I don't mean in terms of anything other than market traction.



    The reason i see is due to the subsidization model. If the iPhone was $650 for all users up front the uptake wouldn't be so high. Same goes for vendors using Android. It's the $199 price that seems to be make this a non-issue for adoption that has pushed Apple out in front in terms in of revenue and profit and Android in terms of "activations."



    This hasn't worked for any other market. There is no Android-based PMPs that are gaining ground. There is no Android-based tablets that are gaining ground. It's the iPod and iPad, respectively. Even the Kindle Fire and Nook Color which run forked versions of Android, are well loved companies, and come in at 40 to 50% the price of the cheapest iPad still couldn't sell half of what the iPad sold last quarter when it was near a year old.
  • Reply 100 of 117
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ruel24 View Post


    Not completely true, or there would have never been an iPod Shuffle. But, I think Apple might start selling the iPad 2 cheaper to compete with the wannabes.



    The iPod shuffle wasn't necessarily targeted to the low-end market. It was an entirely different product than the original iPod. It's purpose was to be more portable, like wearing during exercising or walking around. The iPod classic was geared toward storing entire music libraries, while the shuffle was for playlists. Many people that had a big iPod also bought a iPod shuffle. It was a strategy to sell more iPods to current iPod owners. It did however, also attract new iPod users who weren't willing to spend as much for the big iPod. However, there are other MP3 players competing with the iPod shuffle (similar form & features), some priced half as much. It's totally two different products- dramatically different form factors, features, and use cases.



    I definitely think Apple will keep the iPad 2 16GB and knock off a $100 bucks.



    But I don't think Apple will offer a 7" iPad that tripped down version of the current iPad having cheaper components and less features. If Apple does make a 7" device it would be directed toward different use cases having entirely different features (not absence of) than iPad. Something that people that own iPads might also consider buying.
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