First wave of Windows 8 tablets rumored to arrive in October

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  • Reply 61 of 78
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Relic View Post


    Well I like it and it's defiantly no more childish looking then iOS.



    At no point did I say it was childish. Stop putting words in my mouth.



    I like Metro for Tablets and Phones. On there it works very well because its clearly geared for small screens and fingers. When my iPhone4 contract is up I'm seriously considering a Nokia Lumia 900 if the iPhone 5 is not up to scratch.



    Desktops and Laptop, however... Yeah no

    Metro on desktops can be summed up with three words:

    Complication through Oversimplification.



    Yeah its pretty and all that; but its a waste of screen space, nearly everything I do in windows 7 and Mac OSX now requires an extra click in windows 8, the interface is very obscure and the layout is illogical:



    Why is the shutdown button in the settings and lock screen but not in the main menu?

    Why do I need to open the Metro settings panel to open the system settings (control panel)?

    Why is the control panel in Metro not linked in any way to the actual control panel?

    Why do metro apps not appear in the task bar?

    Why is there two independent versions of Internet Explorer on a desktop?

    Whats the point in Metro when opening the file browser or any other standard desktop application throws you out of metro and back to the normal explorer desktop?

    How is Metro supposed to replace or enhance the standard desktop when its applications are limited to a single full screen window with clunky task switching?

    What is the point of the "snap" feature when a normal floating window can do the same thing with far more freedom?

    Why has the start button been replaced with an arbitrary hot corner?

    A hot corner requires the mouse pointer be in the very corner of the screen, how are you supposed to do that comfortably on a tablet without triggering another function?

    Why do I need to go into the task manager to fully quit a Metro application?

    If its tablet oriented, why is the mouse friendly desktop still there?





    I asked myself all these questions in the first ten minutes of using windows 8. Nothing about its interface makes sense. It either needs to be all Metro (downgrade to the 80s in terms of productivity) or be all Explorer Desktop (in which case its a pointless minor upgrade to Windows 7).
  • Reply 62 of 78
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by benanderson89 View Post


    I asked myself all these questions in the first ten minutes of using windows 8. Nothing about its interface makes sense. It either needs to be all Metro (downgrade to the 80s in terms of productivity) or be all Explorer Desktop (in which case its a pointless minor upgrade to Windows 7).



    Yep I agree, an all Metro UI is the way to go on a tablet. That's why I'm hoping the ARM version will be just that. As the ARM cpu is cot compatible with older Windows programs there will only be new apps written for the Metro, hopefully. This fall back to the classic desktop will ruin Windows 8, it's all or nothing Microsoft, second guessing will only turn more people away.



    I will buy a Windows 8 ARM tablet though as I am always excited about new things. If it works out I will continue to use it and promote it if not well I'll sell it and that will be that.



    One more thing, you mentioned that there was to much in the way of empty/wasted space on the Metro UI. I think this is the greatest strength. I find it pleasing to my eyes and I really like the live tiles. It makes a lot of sense, especially on a phone or tablet where your fingers do the clicking. Also, is there a way to close down apps in iOS, I don't know this but I think Metro also pauses it's apps when their in the background. Having a Control Panel is just an added benefit, like in Android. Although I think Android is the winner in dealing with opened software, click on the, "Opened Apps" icon, then using your finger slide the app in you want closed to the left, same as unlocking an iPhone but you slide left instead of right, awesome idea.
  • Reply 63 of 78
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Relic View Post


    Yep I agree, an all Metro UI is the way to go on a tablet. That's why I'm hoping the ARM version will be just that. As the ARM cpu is cot compatible with older Windows programs there will only be new apps written for the Metro, hopefully. This fall back to the classic desktop will ruin Windows 8, it's all or nothing Microsoft, second guessing will only turn more people away.



    I will buy a Windows 8 ARM tablet though as I am always excited about new things. If it works out I will continue to use it and promote it if not well I'll sell it and that will be that.



    One more thing, you mentioned that there was to much in the way of empty/wasted space on the Metro UI. I think this is the greatest strength. I find it pleasing to my eyes and I really like the live tiles. It makes a lot of sense, especially on a phone or tablet where your fingers do the clicking. Also, is there a way to close down apps in iOS, I don't know this but I think Metro also pauses it's apps when their in the background. Having a Control Panel is just an added benefit, like in Android. Although I think Android is the winner in dealing with opened software, click on the, "Opened Apps" icon, then using your finger slide the app in you want closed to the left, same as unlocking an iPhone but you slide left instead of right, awesome idea.



    I was talking about desktop computers, not tablets - the space on desktops and laptops is wasted. I've openly said that Metro is perfectly fine on a tablet device and that I'm considering a Windows Phone. Tablets and Phones being metro only is brilliant. Love the idea. I may invest in a Windows8 ARM tablet as well (just a cheap one to see what its like).



    There is a way to close down Apps in iOS and I'm surprised you don't know how to do it since it was all over the iOS4 keynote and in advertisement.



    There's the apps, there's the quit button, job done.



    With Windows8 you have to leave Metro, start the task manager, find the process or process tree (depending on application) and then end it. its illogical, involves too many clicks and wont be available in a Metro only environment.



    Windows8 on a conventional personal computer is clearly a half-baked idea to play catch-up with the other, more sane companies.
  • Reply 64 of 78
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Granmastak View Post


    You would think MSFT would pursue that, but it may have not made sense to their operations to actually manufacture hardware. I'm not sure they even make a mouse anymore.



    The problem with Microsoft making hardware is that its always shit - just look at the xbox! Old xboxes have a 33% failure rate! The new, "slim" model is even worse! 54% failure rate! How do you make hardware with a 54% failure rate!? note that failure rates include both hardware faults and DVDs turned smoothie...
  • Reply 65 of 78
    There's a lot of talk on win 8's. Ui being ugly and after after using an iPad for a few days now I've got to ask does anyone actually like the iOS ui?



    I suspect people actually don't, reason being none of the popular apps actually use the default ui for apps. All of them are completely customised to the point that even back buttons don't use the default styles. Even apples own apps all have custom ui's, apart from mail which looks a little boring.



    So with this in mind it could be argued that all apps on win 8 tablets could look like the iPad versions and then the only difference is the start screen. Now I don't have anything hugely against the iPad start screen, it's certainly a lot better than the android tablets I've looked at. But compared to win 8 it is basic, it can't display any information like the current weather and I've always had issues organising apps nicely into screens. Either you try to put them into folders but there's 1 to many, or you put them onto screens and you end up with far to many screens.
  • Reply 66 of 78
    that will be good for MS, although it'll be 7 months too late... cause Apple will have sold 20 million iPad3's by then.... mwahahaha
  • Reply 67 of 78
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,660member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by timgriff84 View Post


    There's a lot of talk on win 8's. Ui being ugly and after after using an iPad for a few days now I've got to ask does anyone actually like the iOS ui?



    I suspect people actually don't, reason being none of the popular apps actually use the default ui for apps. All of them are completely customised to the point that even back buttons don't use the default styles. Even apples own apps all have custom ui's, apart from mail which looks a little boring.



    Care to give some examples of all these non-standard UIs in iOS? Because I've found it remarkably consistent. And I don't see any evidence at all that Apple's apps are customized, apart from the necessary bits for a given functionality (for example, you wouldn't expect iPhoto to have the same UI as GarageBand, would you?)



    Quote:

    So with this in mind it could be argued that all apps on win 8 tablets could look like the iPad versions and then the only difference is the start screen. Now I don't have anything hugely against the iPad start screen, it's certainly a lot better than the android tablets I've looked at. But compared to win 8 it is basic, it can't display any information like the current weather and I've always had issues organising apps nicely into screens. Either you try to put them into folders but there's 1 to many, or you put them onto screens and you end up with far to many screens.



    I'm not seeing how Metro addresses the folder/icon issue. Metro tiles are considerably larger than iOS app icons, so if anything I've got more scrolling to do to see what's available.
  • Reply 68 of 78
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by benanderson89 View Post


    I was talking about desktop computers, not tablets - the space on desktops and laptops is wasted. I've openly said that Metro is perfectly fine on a tablet device and that I'm considering a Windows Phone. Tablets and Phones being metro only is brilliant. Love the idea. I may invest in a Windows8 ARM tablet as well (just a cheap one to see what its like).



    There is a way to close down Apps in iOS and I'm surprised you don't know how to do it since it was all over the iOS4 keynote and in advertisement.

    There's the apps, there's the quit button, job done.



    With Windows8 you have to leave Metro, start the task manager, find the process or process tree (depending on application) and then end it. its illogical, involves too many clicks and wont be available in a Metro only environment.



    Windows8 on a conventional personal computer is clearly a half-baked idea to play catch-up with the other, more sane companies.



    Okay calm down there buddy, I know you were only talking about the desktop and I agree with everything you said, in fact all my posts have reflected just that. Windows 8 on desktop is too half baked, however I'm really hoping that the tablet experience will be much better. So much so that I will buy one, I really hope Nokia will be ready in October. If you going to buy a Microsoft based tablet then you should get one from the company that is holding hands with Microsoft.
  • Reply 69 of 78
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by barnsey_00 View Post


    that will be good for MS, although it'll be 7 months too late... cause Apple will have sold 20 million iPad3's by then.... mwahahaha



    It's never to late to release a product. If it's good then it should do well. I don't believe anyone will ever match the success that Apple has had but it's also silly to think that their won't be others that can be competitive with good products.
  • Reply 70 of 78
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by addabox View Post


    Metro tiles are considerably larger than iOS app icons, so if anything I've got more scrolling to do to see what's available.



    Yes the icon sizes are a little on the large side but they offer live information and other info that could, no is useful. Plus I'm sure there will be apps and tweaks that will allow you to change their size as there are with the mobile version, so it won't be much of an issue. I quite like seeing all of my apps in one long row as well, it's different from transitioning from one page to another sure but when I think about it that doesn't really offer any advantages other then adding effects.



    Each to his own but I really think Microsoft has a hit on their hands for tablets. The desktop, well that's another situation completely. Microsoft has a whole lot of tweaking that still needs to be done on that side of things, a whole lot. I would even dare call it a complete failure but we will have to see what the final product brings.
  • Reply 71 of 78
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by benanderson89 View Post


    ...



    With Windows8 you have to leave Metro, start the task manager, find the process or process tree (depending on application) and then end it. its illogical, involves too many clicks and wont be available in a Metro only environment.



    Windows8 on a conventional personal computer is clearly a half-baked idea to play catch-up with the other, more sane companies.



    Closing metro apps with the Task Manager is no longer needed with Windows 8 Consumer Preview. In fact, you're not supposed to close metro apps at all. The OS automatically suspend and save states as necessary for apps that are not currently active. But MS added 2 methods to close metro apps for people who insist on managing the apps themselves:



    To close metro apps in Windows 8 Consumer Preview (not Developer Preview):



    Mouse: 1) Bring the mouse cursor to the top edge and the cursor turns into a "grab hand" that you can click and drag down to close 2) engage the app switcher, right-click on the app, and select close.



    Touch: Drag and hold your finger from the top bezel of the active app and follow through to the bottom to close (somewhat like webOS); This gesture also allows you to "snap" an app to the left or right side.
  • Reply 72 of 78
    That reallly sucks.
  • Reply 73 of 78
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by yuki2012 View Post


    That reallly sucks.



    Uuuuh that's like the easiest thing I have ever done, very intuitive if you ask me, however It's now different with the Consumer build. Simply mover your mouse to the upper far left corner of screen and the list of opened apps will appear, Metro and Classic alike, then simply right click to bring down the, "Close" button or if that's to hard and you have a middle button on your mouse, just click that and the app will close. If all of that is still to hard or if your on a tablet, with your mouse or finger simply drag and drop the app to the far right hand corner of the screen and the app will also close. Even still you can always use the oldly but goody, "ALT F4".



    So what exactly sucks about that, I wish all OS's had those features.
  • Reply 74 of 78
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by KevinN206 View Post


    Closing metro apps with the Task Manager is no longer needed with Windows 8 Consumer Preview. In fact, you're not supposed to close metro apps at all. The OS automatically suspend and save states as necessary for apps that are not currently active. But MS added 2 methods to close metro apps for people who insist on managing the apps themselves:



    To close metro apps in Windows 8 Consumer Preview (not Developer Preview):



    Mouse: 1) Bring the mouse cursor to the top edge and the cursor turns into a "grab hand" that you can click and drag down to close 2) engage the app switcher, right-click on the app, and select close.



    Touch: Drag and hold your finger from the top bezel of the active app and follow through to the bottom to close (somewhat like webOS); This gesture also allows you to "snap" an app to the left or right side.



    Because dragging from the top down is how everyone who uses a mouse closes an application on a desktop computer.



    Even those methods are still backwards and unintuitive.



    So I'm in internet explorer 10 for Metro, I want to close it. To close it with the top-left hot corner I need to go to come out of another application first, then fire up the task switcher, then select the right thumb nail and then drag it as far down to the bottom of the screen as possible. To close it in-app I need to place my mouse at the very top of the screen, click and drag it all the way to the bottom.



    On a tablet, great! Thats the kind of thing I'd expect from a tablet. On a desktop with a mouse? I'm running two 21.5" screens at work and have a 27" inch screen with a 21.5" external at home. Dragging, with a mouse, from top to bottom on screens that size (where 20"+ is becoming the standard for desktops) is just a complete mess.



    You may be thinking "what about smaller laptops?" - ever tried dragging with a trackpad?



    I get how and why it works on tablets and can't wait to try it out on a tablet - but for conventional PCs is just awful.



    Hell, you can tell the desktop version of Windows8 is just a half arsed attempted to relight the Windows7 fire by slinging a pointless UI on top. Microsoft calling it a minor update without Metro is one thing, visiting the control panel and seeing that back-up and restore is still called "Windows 7 File Recovery" is another.





    I'm having fun using Windows 8 right now, no questions about that - but to do any work its right back to the desktop where I actually have some semblance of organisation. Once the novelty runs out I'm pretty sure I'll be trying to find a way to disable Metro - Microsoft give you that option in Ultimate/Professional (can't remember which) so what the hoo-haa.
  • Reply 75 of 78
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Relic View Post


    Uuuuh that's like the easiest thing I have ever done, very intuitive if you ask me, however It's now different with the Consumer build. Simply mover your mouse to the upper far left corner of screen and the list of opened apps will appear, Metro and Classic alike, then simply right click to bring down the, "Close" button or if that's to hard and you have a middle button on your mouse, just click that and the app will close. If all of that is still to hard or if your on a tablet, with your mouse or finger simply drag and drop the app to the far right hand corner of the screen and the app will also close. Even still you can always use the oldly but goody, "ALT F4".



    So what exactly sucks about that, I wish all OS's had those features.



    Because a task bar and close button don't do all those tasks already



    But seriously - why have those when the more mouse friendly taskbar is still there?
  • Reply 76 of 78
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by benanderson89 View Post


    Because a task bar and close button don't do all those tasks already



    But seriously - why have those when the more mouse friendly taskbar is still there?



    You can't close Metro apps with the Taskbar, they don't even show up there, just classic apps. Yep I know it's retarded. Just more proof the Microsoft put two OS's into one, without really much in the way of integration.
  • Reply 77 of 78
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Relic View Post


    You can't close Metro apps with the Taskbar, they don't even show up there, just classic apps. Yep I know it's retarded. Just more proof the Microsoft put two OS's into one, without really much in the way of integration.



    I know they're not there, hence the laughing smiley for sarcastic effect.

    But yes, it is two operating systems running at once and neither system knows the other is there.



    I'll still be investing in a cheap arm win tablet though, just to see what its like. Curiosity has gotten the better of me.
  • Reply 78 of 78
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by benanderson89 View Post


    I know they're not there, hence the laughing smiley for sarcastic effect.

    But yes, it is two operating systems running at once and neither system knows the other is there.



    I'll still be investing in a cheap arm win tablet though, just to see what its like. Curiosity has gotten the better of me.



    Yea, curiosity has the best of me as well, iOS or Android are far from being the perfect tablet OS. So I will keep searching till I find one. I do really like Metro UI though and I hope Microsoft can pull it off.
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