Let's just leave it at a lot of people here assuming Apple is automatically in the right, even though they have yet to get a single decisive victory that vindicates all their losses to date. The comment about working overseas and finding the "ethics" and "business standards" to be different is vague and vapid. It's accepted that different countries and their businesses will have different ways of doing ethics.
But ethics? That's a good one. Ever heard of the Great Recession? I'm sure anyone who's been reading the news can name at least 5 companies--American companies--that more or less orchestrated it.
Except we're talking specifically about acculturated notions of what it means to innovate vs. what it means to copy. Pretty clearly, some Asian cultures have a different take on this, as you would expect given the West's emphasis on the individual over the group.
Let's just leave it at a lot of people here assuming Apple is automatically in the right, even though they have yet to get a single decisive victory that vindicates all their losses to date. The comment about working overseas and finding the "ethics" and "business standards" to be different is vague and vapid. It's accepted that different countries and their businesses will have different ways of doing ethics.
But ethics? That's a good one. Ever heard of the Great Recession? I'm sure anyone who's been reading the news can name at least 5 companies--American companies--that more or less orchestrated it.
More over generalizations that amount to nonsense.
Sweden, France, Germany, etc. 'emphasize' the 'individual over the group'?
US ≠ 'West.'
Hmmmm, talking historically here. The Enlightenment and its subsequent development in, yes, the "West" put an unprecedented emphasis on the rights and attainments of the individual. That has subsequently developed into a bit of a mania in the US, but the fact remains that compared to the feudal, agrarian or tribal based systems that preceded it, Enlightenment values put an unprecedented emphasis on "man", by which they meant the individual. It changed the nature of the arts, of inquiry into natural phenomena, governments relation to its citizenry, etc.
I'm not making any claims for better, just noting the difference. And yes, compared to traditional Asian culture Sweden, France, and Germany are hotbeds of individualism.
I am not a lawyer, but I don't think you've interpreted it correctly.
I think when a company is preparing for litigation, they make the strongest and most expansive case possible to encourage settlement and heh, maybe to intimidate as well. I expect that this can make for potentially a very lengthy case that can be confusing and time consuming for the judge and very expensive for the litigants. Some of the claims may require a lot of work when they are not really central to the argument. I understand that the judge asks them to strip out those sorts of claims to simply things for the court. They have lots of other cases to deal with.
Oftentimes patents appear to be removed from cases to avoid having them deemed invalid. According to FOSSPatents, that's a contributing reason for some of the recent claims removed from Apple patent litigation.
"In early February, Judge Richard Posner told Apple and Motorola that he was "not satisfied" with the "winnowing" they had done at the time, which would have left six Apple and three Motorola patents for trial. On Monday, he made his own contribution to "winnowing" by declaring an Apple patent on an operating system wrapper invalid, and by issuing a host of additional claim constructions based on which Apple and Motorola could now negotiate some further narrowing.
In other litigations (an ITC investigation against Samsung and a Motorola lawsuit in Florida), Apple has recently shown quite some willingness to withdraw patent claims that become realistically unwinnable, mostly as a result of unfavorable claim constructions.
This is the kind of cop-out I hear all the time. It makes no sense at all. If that were the case, such companies have no business doing business globally. They should stay at home and do what they do. Using the same logic ("they do it differently"), we might as well jettison all international laws, conventions, and institutions.
Quite apart from the fact that it is painting with a ridiculously broad brush ("S. E. Asia"), most importantly it is a condescending view you have: there is no culture or legal system in which copying, cheating, or stealing is legal.
Intellectual property is quite a Western concept. So you are right that no civilized culture legalizes stealing. But who decides what "stealing" is when no tangible property is involved? That's where culture comes into play.
As mentioned, Western countries historically promote individualism over the group, which explains the concept of an individual owning an idea, where other cultures may view IP as belonging to the collective.
Who's to say what's right? Even here, many debate whether patent law is worth it.
Jesus, it's quite incredible how ethnocentric/racists you fanbois are. What's next? only Anglo protestants have salvation & work ethics to be successful in global economy? Have you been drinking M. Weber kool-aid? Just where did you guys get your PhD's in sociology?
This is doubly funny considering that Apple is just a glorified marketing / product integration company that depends on technology / manufacturing giants like Xerox, Samsung, Sharp, etc for success.
Discussing differences in prevailing cultures of differing geographic locations is not racism or ethnocentrism. If you do conduct business in a global manner, it's important to understand cultural differences.
And Apple just slaps off the shelf components together and sticks an Apple logo on it, huh? Because iOS is just sitting on the shelf. And that A5X chip definitely isn't proprietary. And Apple doesn't have an R&D department and numerous patents. Apple also definitely doesn't contribute to the open source community and definitely didn't release WebKit which is used by everyone and their mother.
Apple is a software company who also sells its own hardware. Apple outsources the manufacturing of the hardware to various suppliers. Do you think the "great innovator" Samsung makes everything in-house?
It's a misnomer to think that only "real" companies make everything themselves. Modern business promotes streamlined outsourcing, allowing each company in the supply chain to focus on its core competency.
Intellectual property is quite a Western concept. So you are right that no civilized culture legalizes stealing. But who decides what "stealing" is when no tangible property is involved? That's where culture comes into play.
As mentioned, Western countries historically promote individualism over the group, which explains the concept of an individual owning an idea, where other cultures may view IP as belonging to the collective.
Who's to say what's right? Even here, many debate whether patent law is worth it.
What are you talking about!?
Why don't you do some simple research to figure out -- and then enlighten us, please -- at least one major Asian country that does not have IP laws on its books?
I've been in manufacturing for 25years and it's the same thing time after time. A US company becomes successful with great idea decides to send manufacturing to China, Korea, .... Next thing you know they duplicate your design, process, everything and now they are your new competition that eventually puts you out of business. What Samsung has done is just blatant stealing. The best way to combat this is to send a message to Samsung by not buying anything labeled Samsung. So, join the campaign and not buy Samsung TV's, cameras,appliances,etc. Not Republican, Democrat, Independent, we are Americans!!!!!!!!!
Hmmmm, talking historically here. The Enlightenment and its subsequent development in, yes, the "West" put an unprecedented emphasis on the rights and attainments of the individual. That has subsequently developed into a bit of a mania in the US, but the fact remains that compared to the feudal, agrarian or tribal based systems that preceded it, Enlightenment values put an unprecedented emphasis on "man", by which they meant the individual. It changed the nature of the arts, of inquiry into natural phenomena, governments relation to its citizenry, etc.
I'm not making any claims for better, just noting the difference. And yes, compared to traditional Asian culture Sweden, France, and Germany are hotbeds of individualism.
Fair enough.
But it's a bit of a stretch to go from the Enlightenment to the view that there's a cultural predeliction (or lack thereof) for IP law. That's where the overgenerailzation is.
The bottom line is, every major country has well-established IP laws. The extent and consistency of the application of these laws varies everywhere, including in such 'indvidualistic' countries such as the US. Emerging, scrappy competitors -- especially in tech -- often have a tendency to imitate, copy, or even steal to get started in business, and then try to hold on to what they have.
The recent mega-globalizers have been primarily from Asia (started with Japan, then Korea, then Taiwan, now China, just to name the biggies) and they're doing things not unlike what companies like Microsoft (and even Apple) have done. But to make broad cultural attributions is neither fair or justified.
Comments
Let's just leave it at a lot of people here assuming Apple is automatically in the right, even though they have yet to get a single decisive victory that vindicates all their losses to date. The comment about working overseas and finding the "ethics" and "business standards" to be different is vague and vapid. It's accepted that different countries and their businesses will have different ways of doing ethics.
But ethics? That's a good one. Ever heard of the Great Recession? I'm sure anyone who's been reading the news can name at least 5 companies--American companies--that more or less orchestrated it.
Except we're talking specifically about acculturated notions of what it means to innovate vs. what it means to copy. Pretty clearly, some Asian cultures have a different take on this, as you would expect given the West's emphasis on the individual over the group.
Let's just leave it at a lot of people here assuming Apple is automatically in the right...
Lets just leave it at a lot of people, well more specifically one person, i.e. you, assuming things about "people here".
OK
Door ----------->
Let's just leave it at a lot of people here assuming Apple is automatically in the right, even though they have yet to get a single decisive victory that vindicates all their losses to date. The comment about working overseas and finding the "ethics" and "business standards" to be different is vague and vapid. It's accepted that different countries and their businesses will have different ways of doing ethics.
But ethics? That's a good one. Ever heard of the Great Recession? I'm sure anyone who's been reading the news can name at least 5 companies--American companies--that more or less orchestrated it.
Losses? What losses?
.... the West's emphasis on the individual over the group.
More over generalizations that amount to nonsense.
Sweden, France, Germany, etc. 'emphasize' the 'individual over the group'?
US ≠ 'West.'
More over generalizations that amount to nonsense.
Sweden, France, Germany, etc. 'emphasize' the 'individual over the group'?
US ≠ 'West.'
Hmmmm, talking historically here. The Enlightenment and its subsequent development in, yes, the "West" put an unprecedented emphasis on the rights and attainments of the individual. That has subsequently developed into a bit of a mania in the US, but the fact remains that compared to the feudal, agrarian or tribal based systems that preceded it, Enlightenment values put an unprecedented emphasis on "man", by which they meant the individual. It changed the nature of the arts, of inquiry into natural phenomena, governments relation to its citizenry, etc.
I'm not making any claims for better, just noting the difference. And yes, compared to traditional Asian culture Sweden, France, and Germany are hotbeds of individualism.
I am not a lawyer, but I don't think you've interpreted it correctly.
I think when a company is preparing for litigation, they make the strongest and most expansive case possible to encourage settlement and heh, maybe to intimidate as well. I expect that this can make for potentially a very lengthy case that can be confusing and time consuming for the judge and very expensive for the litigants. Some of the claims may require a lot of work when they are not really central to the argument. I understand that the judge asks them to strip out those sorts of claims to simply things for the court. They have lots of other cases to deal with.
Oftentimes patents appear to be removed from cases to avoid having them deemed invalid. According to FOSSPatents, that's a contributing reason for some of the recent claims removed from Apple patent litigation.
"In early February, Judge Richard Posner told Apple and Motorola that he was "not satisfied" with the "winnowing" they had done at the time, which would have left six Apple and three Motorola patents for trial. On Monday, he made his own contribution to "winnowing" by declaring an Apple patent on an operating system wrapper invalid, and by issuing a host of additional claim constructions based on which Apple and Motorola could now negotiate some further narrowing.
In other litigations (an ITC investigation against Samsung and a Motorola lawsuit in Florida), Apple has recently shown quite some willingness to withdraw patent claims that become realistically unwinnable, mostly as a result of unfavorable claim constructions.
http://fosspatents.blogspot.com/2012...operating.html
This is the kind of cop-out I hear all the time. It makes no sense at all. If that were the case, such companies have no business doing business globally. They should stay at home and do what they do. Using the same logic ("they do it differently"), we might as well jettison all international laws, conventions, and institutions.
Quite apart from the fact that it is painting with a ridiculously broad brush ("S. E. Asia"), most importantly it is a condescending view you have: there is no culture or legal system in which copying, cheating, or stealing is legal.
Intellectual property is quite a Western concept. So you are right that no civilized culture legalizes stealing. But who decides what "stealing" is when no tangible property is involved? That's where culture comes into play.
As mentioned, Western countries historically promote individualism over the group, which explains the concept of an individual owning an idea, where other cultures may view IP as belonging to the collective.
Who's to say what's right? Even here, many debate whether patent law is worth it.
Jesus, it's quite incredible how ethnocentric/racists you fanbois are. What's next? only Anglo protestants have salvation & work ethics to be successful in global economy? Have you been drinking M. Weber kool-aid? Just where did you guys get your PhD's in sociology?
This is doubly funny considering that Apple is just a glorified marketing / product integration company that depends on technology / manufacturing giants like Xerox, Samsung, Sharp, etc for success.
Discussing differences in prevailing cultures of differing geographic locations is not racism or ethnocentrism. If you do conduct business in a global manner, it's important to understand cultural differences.
And Apple just slaps off the shelf components together and sticks an Apple logo on it, huh? Because iOS is just sitting on the shelf. And that A5X chip definitely isn't proprietary. And Apple doesn't have an R&D department and numerous patents. Apple also definitely doesn't contribute to the open source community and definitely didn't release WebKit which is used by everyone and their mother.
Apple is a software company who also sells its own hardware. Apple outsources the manufacturing of the hardware to various suppliers. Do you think the "great innovator" Samsung makes everything in-house?
It's a misnomer to think that only "real" companies make everything themselves. Modern business promotes streamlined outsourcing, allowing each company in the supply chain to focus on its core competency.
Intellectual property is quite a Western concept. So you are right that no civilized culture legalizes stealing. But who decides what "stealing" is when no tangible property is involved? That's where culture comes into play.
As mentioned, Western countries historically promote individualism over the group, which explains the concept of an individual owning an idea, where other cultures may view IP as belonging to the collective.
Who's to say what's right? Even here, many debate whether patent law is worth it.
What are you talking about!?
Why don't you do some simple research to figure out -- and then enlighten us, please -- at least one major Asian country that does not have IP laws on its books?
Hmmmm, talking historically here. The Enlightenment and its subsequent development in, yes, the "West" put an unprecedented emphasis on the rights and attainments of the individual. That has subsequently developed into a bit of a mania in the US, but the fact remains that compared to the feudal, agrarian or tribal based systems that preceded it, Enlightenment values put an unprecedented emphasis on "man", by which they meant the individual. It changed the nature of the arts, of inquiry into natural phenomena, governments relation to its citizenry, etc.
I'm not making any claims for better, just noting the difference. And yes, compared to traditional Asian culture Sweden, France, and Germany are hotbeds of individualism.
Fair enough.
But it's a bit of a stretch to go from the Enlightenment to the view that there's a cultural predeliction (or lack thereof) for IP law. That's where the overgenerailzation is.
The bottom line is, every major country has well-established IP laws. The extent and consistency of the application of these laws varies everywhere, including in such 'indvidualistic' countries such as the US. Emerging, scrappy competitors -- especially in tech -- often have a tendency to imitate, copy, or even steal to get started in business, and then try to hold on to what they have.
The recent mega-globalizers have been primarily from Asia (started with Japan, then Korea, then Taiwan, now China, just to name the biggies) and they're doing things not unlike what companies like Microsoft (and even Apple) have done. But to make broad cultural attributions is neither fair or justified.