Thermal testing shows new iPad no hotter than Android tablets, notebooks

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 87
    tyler82tyler82 Posts: 1,095member
    Off topic from this article but it was the nearest iPad thread I could find- I just wanted to update everyone on my dead pixel issue. I returned my 32GB ipad to the apple store today and they also observed the dead pixel. I also wanted to get AppleCare+ and upgrade to the 64GB model, and they were happy to do that. They swapped out the 32g for the 64g and there was another dead pixel in the same spot!! Good thing I was patient and set up the iPad in the apple store to confirm this. They said they had never had this problem and that it was very weird that it happened twice in a row. Well they swapped out that ipad for another 64g, no questions asked, and this one is now perfectly pixel free, with applecare+. The experience was very pleasurably stress free and, if anything, Samsung is to blame for creating displays with dead pixels

    I am now a owner of a new 64GB black iPad 4G. I guess I never considered getting the top of the line before since I didn't realize exactly how much the iPad would change my lifestyle and computing habits. I use the iPad now more than my MacBook, which is kind of a pity since I bought a 27" cinema display for it. If it's any consolation, I am typing this post on my MacBook

    I also compared the iPad 2 screen in the Apple Store to the new iPad, since I had never used an earlier version iPad. The difference is HUGE! I really am spoiled now
  • Reply 42 of 87
    myapplelovemyapplelove Posts: 1,515member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    Which manufacturer is this? Who was offering a smaller lithography of the GPU on a large sacle when these started going into production several months ago?





    Yes, 64GB is crippling. Maybe you should get a class action lawsuit going. You've clearly been hurt Apple's actions against you.





    Now it's not fair that Apple offered more choice instead of less? That's right, Apple should what you want without regard for their average customer or trying to run a successful business.



    Samsung did but they weren't making it available to apple of course, and Amd did too. You are very well informed of this, so why pretend you don't know it?



    A successful business is not one beyond reproach or criticism and certainly not an infallible one. Now according to you every decision apple takes is going to be justified because it's trying to run a successful business, so what are others trying to do then run unsuccessful businesses? You have got to be kidding with these kinds of counter arguments.



    Btw you care to comment on the original quote of the iPad not being especially uncomfortable to hold for a brief period? You seem to have missed that...
  • Reply 43 of 87
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post


    Samsung did but they weren't making it available to apple of course, and Amd did too. You are very well informed of this, so why pretend you don't know it?



    A successful business is not one beyond reproach or criticism and certainly not an infallible one. Now according to you every decision apple takes is going to be justified because it's trying to run a successful business, so what are others trying to do then run unsuccessful businesses? You have got to be kidding with these kinds of counter arguments.



    Apparently I'm not ell informed because I know of no vendor using 28/30nm Img Tech GPUs. It's my understand this would not be be ready until 2013.





    PS: If I didn't know you better I'd have thought you were being satirical pooh poohing that girl who won the content and calling Foxconn workers slave girls.
  • Reply 44 of 87
    kevinn206kevinn206 Posts: 117member
    Did PCWorld calibrate the infrared thermocouple for emissivity factor? The default according to the manual is 0.95, and that needs to be changed depending on the "reflectiveness" of the object that you are trying to measure. (-25 to 999°F, 12:1 (D:S), ±1% accuracy, laser sight, fixed emissivity (.95), hard case)



    My company actually bought a $40,000 temperature measurement camera, and it has automatic emissivity correction and high resolution. I don't think a $500 infrared would have it. A black case, a white case, and a silvery reflective case will make a huge difference if the factor is not adjusted correctly. Typically, black will give you the more accurate reading.



    Basically, if PCW use a black Samsung Galaxy and Asus Transformer Prime compared to a white iPad 2/3, then the reading is very likely to be wrong. It would underestimate the temperature of the iPad 2/3 with the white/silvery case.
  • Reply 45 of 87
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,217member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    He understates the case for CR simply looking for attention. I've seen at least 4 other reports of iPad temperatures and NONE of them have gotten over 100 degrees - much less 116 degrees.



    CR's report is highly suspect.



    I am more suspicious about their methods. How many iPads did they test? how many usage scenarios.



    it feels like they tested one unit in one situation and are screaming that all iPads under all uses will scald users worse than a cup of brew from the local MickeyDs
  • Reply 46 of 87
    myapplelovemyapplelove Posts: 1,515member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    Apparently I'm not ell informed because I know of no vendor using 28/30nm Img Tech GPUs. It's my understand this would not be be ready until 2013.

    .



    You know of no "vendor" but you know plenty of fabs who could should apple had opted for them. You also know Samsung has already done a die shrink in their own arm chips. And I am sure you know of tsmc manufacturing at 28nm for nvidia and Amd.



    Your comments are not uncomfortably weak if read for a brief period of time.
  • Reply 47 of 87
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post


    You know of no "vendor" but you know plenty of fabs who could ahould apple had opted for them. You also know Samsung has already done a die shrink in their own arm chips. And I am sure you know of tsmc manufacturing at 28nm for nvidia and Amd.



    Your comments are not uncomfortably weak if read for a brief period of time.



    1) I know of no vendor using such chips and I now of no one who can make 28/30nm Img Tach GPUs at this time, and certainly not at the scale Apple needs. Show me who can!



    2) "ARM chips"? You seriously don't realize the heat being generated is from the GPU?
  • Reply 48 of 87
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,665member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post


    Samsung did but they weren't making it available to apple of course, and Amd did too. You are very well informed of this, so why pretend you don't know it?



    A successful business is not one beyond reproach or criticism and certainly not an infallible one. Now according to you every decision apple takes is going to be justified because it's trying to run a successful business, so what are others trying to do then run unsuccessful businesses? You have got to be kidding with these kinds of counter arguments.



    Btw you care to comment on the original quote of the iPad not being especially uncomfortable to hold for a brief period? You seem to have missed that...



    OK. Here's the thing. A certain type of poster has taken to seizing on anything and everything that comes down the pike to bash Apple, even when those things don't really make a great deal of sense. The PC World analysis of temperature really should put this one to bed-- the new iPad gets no more than 8 degrees warmer than the old one.



    Pretending that this is a huge problem is just stupid. Even more stupid is falling back on the lazy trope of claiming anyone who doesn't buy into this shit thinks "Apple can do no wrong" or is "above reproach or criticism."



    Guess what? I think Apple gets stuff wrong all the time. I think the iPad getting slightly warmer is a non-event, and the hysteria surrounding it typical of a certain kind of person.



    The new iPad is selling like hotcakes, has been very well received. You can wrangle with people all you want, call them fanboys, dismiss that disagreement as some kind of Apple apologetics, but I know, and I think you know, this stuff will presently die down when people get bored with it, the iPad will continue to sell in record numbers, and you won't hear much about how hot it gets, because it clearly doesn't.
  • Reply 49 of 87
    myapplelovemyapplelove Posts: 1,515member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by KevinN206 View Post


    Did PCWorld calibrate the infrared thermocouple for emissivity factor? The default according to the manual is 0.95, and that needs to be changed depending on the "reflectiveness" of the object that you are trying to measure. (-25 to 999°F, 12:1 (D:S), ±1% accuracy, laser sight, fixed emissivity (.95), hard case)



    My company actually bought a $40,000 temperature measurement camera, and it has automatic emissivity correction and high resolution. I don't think a $500 infrared would have it. A black case, a white case, and a silvery reflective case will make a huge difference if the factor is not adjusted correctly. Typically, black will give you the more accurate reading.



    Basically, if PCW use a black Samsung Galaxy and Asus Transformer Prime compared to a white iPad 2/3, then the reading is very likely to be wrong. It would underestimate the temperature of the iPad 2/3 with the white/silvery case.



    40,000 would be a bit too steep to be covered by the props apple will be offering to them... 10,000 (minus apple's cut is 7,000) $ is all they can afford for pretty Chinese girls and 25 billion apps downloaded, so that gives a sense of perpective.



    Seriously though, very informative post, thanks!
  • Reply 50 of 87
    myapplelovemyapplelove Posts: 1,515member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by addabox View Post


    The new iPad is selling like hotcakes



    Apt analogy.



    not especially uncomfortable If held for brief periods.
  • Reply 51 of 87
    kevinn206kevinn206 Posts: 117member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post


    40,000 would be a bit too steep to be covered by the props apple will be offering to them... 10,000 (minus apple's cut is 7,000) $ is all they can afford for pretty Chinese girls and 25 billion apps downloaded, so that gives a sense of perpective.



    Seriously though, very informative post, thanks!



    We use it to measure electronic components that are very small (about 0.020 inches in length & width). It's smaller than a grain of rice.
  • Reply 52 of 87
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,665member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post


    Apt analogy.



    not especially uncomfortable If held for brief periods.



    You're quoting the Consumer Reports article that's citing results nobody else seems to be able to replicate.



    In fact, you seem a little obsessed with that one remark, much like a not particularly bright troll.
  • Reply 53 of 87
    myapplelovemyapplelove Posts: 1,515member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


    1) I know of no vendor using such chips and I now of no one who can make 28/30nm Img Tach GPUs at this time, and certainly not at the scale Apple needs. Show me who can!



    2) "ARM chips"? You seriously don't realize the heat being generated is from the GPU?



    I was making a point that the process manufacturing is there, of course the gpu is the main offender. I ve already told you who can tsmc and Samsung themselves. The capacity to manufacture at a smaller scale is there, be it imagination's gpu or anyone's provided apple was willing to invest in it, but they chose to keep 40% margins, cripple storage (where they could have very well afforded to add more) and make the new iPad good enough to fry an egg on. No worries though 28nm tegra 4 is around the corner as well as retina displays in volumes. Like I said I wouldn't have minded the heat so much if they had not pulled the stunt of keeping flash that they already get immensely cheaper than anyone at 2010 storage levels. But getting a hit on both storage (and thus limiting the life span of my device) and heat is hard to swallow.



    As someone who has been expecting the apple tablet for about 4-5 years before its release, and as someone who saw its immense market shaping potential, and someone who stood in line for iPad 1 and owns ipad 2 as well, and as someone who also values Hidpi displays apple is making it extra hard for me to buy this time.
  • Reply 54 of 87
    myapplelovemyapplelove Posts: 1,515member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by addabox View Post


    You're quoting the Consumer Reports article that's citing results nobody else seems to be able to replicate.



    In fact, you seem a little obsessed with that one remark, much like a not particularly bright troll.



    Yeah cause everyone is trying to replicate consumer reports fabricated results and failing... And we all know consumer reports not only do a shoddy job but they are also downright evil ever since reporting how badly apple's antennae engineers (all 12 of them) had effed up with the iPhone 4. It's not as if people are constantly reporting their iPads getting warm to touch.



    Btw, how come pc world failed to test if the iPad would actually charge during a CPU/gpu intensive task? They seemed to have missed this...
  • Reply 55 of 87
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post


    I was making a point that the process manufacturing is there, of course the gpu is the main offender. I ve already told you who can tsmc and Samsung themselves. The capacity to manufacture at a smaller scale is there, be it imagination's gpu or anyone's provided apple was willing to invest in it



    1) You keep saying it but you haven't proved it. In fact, all you've done is poo pooh Apple, and everyone at Apple since posting here today. Your posts make you sound like a very hateful and irrational person.



    2) So you think because 'a chip manufactured a certain lithography that all chips can be manufactured at a smaller lithography at the same time. That simply isn't true.



    From AnandTech:
    "While the MDM9600 is built on a 45nm process, its successor due in 2012 is built on a 28nm process. Qualcomm's current roadmaps show the 28nm MDM9615 arriving in Q2 2012. "



    "Brian did an excellent analysis on the LTE baseband in the new iPad here. Qualcomm's MDM9600, a 40nm design appears to be used by Apple instead of the 28nm MDM9615. In hindsight, speculating the use of a 28nm LTE baseband for the new iPad was likely short sighted. Apple had to be in the mass production phase for the new iPad somewhere in the January/February timeframe. Although 28nm silicon is shipping to customers today, that was likely too aggressive of a schedule to make it work for an early-March launch."
    Then there is the issue of Series 6 arriving in 2013.



    So AnandTech doesn't agree with you either and yet again everything you've said has been a complete fabrication.



    Quote:

    but they chose to keep 40% margins, cripple storage (where they could have very well afforded to add more) and make the new iPad good enough to fry an egg on.



    So many stupid comments in one sentence. I can't figure out why the mods don't ban you for making such asinine comments.



    Quote:

    No worries though 28nm tegra 4 is around the corner as well as retina displays in volumes.



    Yep, always right around the corner.



    Quote:

    Like I said I wouldn't have minded the heat so much if they had not pulled the stunt of keeping flash that they already get immensely cheaper than anyone at 2010 storage levels. But getting a hit on both storage (and thus limiting the life span of my device) and heat is hard to swallow.



    All this animosity toward not raising the capacity when most don't want 64GB iPads and most do want a better display. Reports show the new display, backlight, GPU, RAM, battery, and other accompanying HW have reduced the profit margin somewhat. But that can't be true because it would go against everything you want to hate in this world.



    How about this... just keep complaining about the iPad being a "frying pan" and being "crippled and useless" with only 64GB storage until 2013 when the capacities can double. Then you can feel vindicated saying that Apple listened to you.. and you specifically. Of course by then you'll probably say that 256GB should be the minimum size so you have something to complain about.
  • Reply 56 of 87
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post


    Yeah cause everyone is trying to replicate consumer reports fabricated results and failing...



    They are.
    Quote:

    Though the new iPad did run hotter than the iPad 2, the difference wasn’t great. And in repeated lab tests of the new iPad, we could not replicate the disturbingly high temperatures that some sources have reported. More important, the new iPad was not dramatically warmer than either the Asus Eee Pad Transformer Prime or the Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 LTE, even though its battery has a substantially higher milliampere-per-hour (mAh) rating than theirs do (11666mAh for the new iPad, versus 7000mAh for the Galaxy Tab 10.1 and 6930mAh for the Transformer Prime).



  • Reply 57 of 87
    myapplelovemyapplelove Posts: 1,515member
    You want a bet that in four months time at most retina androids running cooler than the iPad will be on the market? Be my guest.



    What does the anandtech quote prove? That Qualcomm could not manufacture at 28nm in time currently? So what? Who makes qualcomm's chips? What does the wifi chip have to do with the mission critical CPU/gpu die shrink to enable a demanding screen to run better with a cooler iPad? The process is there and there are manufacturers who could have provided apple the ability to manufacture imaginations chip at this scale. They are already manufacturing a few months ago other people's chips at such scales. And you are telling me I am making things up...



    Keep calling my comments stupid and asinine and my posting persona hateful and irrational and I ll keep responding with arguments, don't worry.



    You are kidding me that most don't want 64gb iPads right? By all reports the 16gb iPad is virtually un-saleable and from what you read about in forums and see in stores, and you tell me people don't want 64gb iPads just retina? You have got to be joking... At some point if they ever issue stats for sales of models I will wager you anything that the 64gb model trumps the 16gb in sales, I ll bet anything you want on this, are you up for it?
  • Reply 58 of 87
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,665member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post


    You want a bet that in four months time at most retina androids running cooler than the iPad will be on the market? Be my guest.



    What does the anandtech quote prove? That Qualcomm could not manufacture at 28nm in time currently? So what? Who makes qualcomm's chips? What does the wifi chip have to do with the mission critical CPU/gpu die shrink to enable a demanding screen to run better with a cooler iPad? The process is there and there are manufacturers who could have provided apple the ability to manufacture imaginations chip at this scale. They are already manufacturing a few months ago other people's chips at such scales. And you are telling me I am making things up...



    Keep calling my comments stupid and asinine and my posting persona hateful and irrational and I ll keep responding with arguments, don't worry.



    You are kidding me that most don't want 64gb iPads right? By all reports the 16gb iPad is virtually un-saleable and from what you read about in forums and see in stores, and you tell me people don't want 64gb iPads just retina? You have got to be joking... At some point if they ever issue stats for sales of models I will wager you anything that the 64gb model trumps the 16gb in sales, I ll bet anything you want on this, are you up for it?



    How about some links to back up these things you "know"? Because this entire post pretty much comes off like an angry screed with no sourcing.



    I don't even know what you're so worked up about. Is it that Apple owes you a slightly cooler running iPad? One with more memory at the same price? Because from everything you've posted, you seem to kind of hate the thing and think it's a huge fiasco and consider Apple to be at least duplicitous if not criminally negligent, so I'm not sure why you'd want one. And if you don't want one, why do you care? Other than to pick fights with "Apple sheep", of course.



    My suspicion is that you've been doing your low-key, passive-agressive troll thing for a while, but finally some people have kind of squared around on you and pushed back and you don't like it. It makes you very grumpy. But that's going to have to be your problem.



    At the end of the day, you don't have a leg to stand on. People have posted links to multiple tests that suggest the new iPad runs slightly warmer than the old one, you keep posting the line you like from CR and carrying on like the thing were in danger of spontaneously combusting. You've been directed to articles citing production schedules that would have made it difficult if not impossible for Apple to incorporate a 28nm chip, since the production ramp-up on the iPad started several months ago. For whatever reasons you've decided that you don't care about that, Apple "should have" and "could have" made a cooler running, less power hungry iPad (although of course you haven't offered any reasons why Apple would forgo that highly desirable option, had it been available). Just, I dunno, evilness? Incompetence?



    At any rate, you seem to be insane. Ignore list it is.
  • Reply 59 of 87
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post


    Samsung did but they weren't making it available to apple of course, and Amd did too. You are very well informed of this, so why pretend you don't know it?.



    Still waiting for you to provide evidence of your claim. By all public reports, no one will be able to make a 30 nm ARM chip in quantity until later this year. What evidence do you have that refutes that?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by charlituna View Post


    I am more suspicious about their methods. How many iPads did they test? how many usage scenarios.



    it feels like they tested one unit in one situation and are screaming that all iPads under all uses will scald users worse than a cup of brew from the local MickeyDs



    I'm not sure they even did that. There are at least 4 published reports and none of them shows the iPad 3 getting over 100 degrees F under ANY conditions. CR claims 116. It's just not plausible - and since they have a history of lying, they really need to provide some evidence.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post


    Yeah cause everyone is trying to replicate consumer reports fabricated results and failing... And we all know consumer reports not only do a shoddy job but they are also downright evil ever since reporting how badly apple's antennae engineers (all 12 of them) had effed up with the iPhone 4. It's not as if people are constantly reporting their iPads getting warm to touch..



    I don't know about evil, but they have a history of lying. Furthermore, after multiple independent groups showed that their iPad claims don't appear to be true, they have a major credibility problem.



    I'm not going to guess their motives - I don't have any idea. But the evidence is pretty clear that their claim is unsubstantiated.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post


    Btw, how come pc world failed to test if the iPad would actually charge during a CPU/gpu intensive task? They seemed to have missed this...



    Because they weren't interested in that issue, most likely. Nor is it relevant. In spite of diligent efforts from multiple sources, no one has been able to come anywhere close to CR's claimed temperatures. That's enough to destroy their credibility - unless CR can provide additional information that might support their claims.
  • Reply 60 of 87
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post


    You want a bet that in four months time at most retina androids running cooler than the iPad will be on the market? Be my guest.



    And at some point, Apple will have an iPad 4 which will be even faster. And after that, an iPad 5 (not those names, of course).



    What does that have to do with the fact that CR is lying?
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