Count me as part of this group. I'm on a 2008 MacBook Pro 17" 3,1 that's about to EOL. Was offered a new 15" MBP, but declined. Waiting to see if the 17" line will live on and, if so, in what type of configuration.
Sales go up when you release new stuff. Who would have ever predicted something like that?
I'm not surprised at all, I tell anyone that will listen to wait no matter what sort of PC you want to buy. At this point you are talking weeks to a couple of months.
But DUDE, Samsung has a ChromeBook you can get............. (with obvious sarcasm)
What's funny is that the average Joe doesn't understand the product cycles and how it affects their shipments. People see a decline in sales and think everyone is abandoning Apple, when it is just a simple preconceived drop due to ramping down of one product and ramping production of a new product that is creating pent up demand.
Not to worry, the lines will still be out the door come product release time. Apple stores are still packed just it's Christmas. Jeeeeeezzz.
I cannot believe the paranoia at Intel. I guess Andy Grove's management style is still alive and well at Intel. I don't know why Intel cares, Apple still uses Intel processors for their laptops and desktops. So if the computer that shipped has an Apple logo or not, they shouldn't mind. I mean at least Apple also uses an Intel designed Thunderbolt connector which the others don't.
amd was in the running for new airs but failed to deliver in quantity and quality. Excellent gpu performance but low cpu performance.
In the AIR, Mini and some other machines the CPU performance would not have been that bad. Now that AMD is producing they are getting a lot of design ins due to the APUs extremely good value in laptops. Llano isn't as bad as many seem to believe.
amd was in the running for new airs but failed to deliver in quantity and quality. Excellent gpu performance but low cpu performance.
The Air was/is a huge seller for Apple. It shows that powerful is not what it use to be. So ARM seems to be working well for task not needing so much power, like content consumption in iOS devices, and Airplay allows it to migrate to larger screens. That said, if ARM can leverage the GPU by oft-loading a lot of the CPU's computation task to multi-core GPU designs, then ARM, along with Apple's optimization and propriety design, might/can be as powerful as an iMac for the consumer market.*
* Apple's market has effectively changed from Pro to Prosumer to Consumer by anybody's metric over the last few years, and since Apple only seems to do what they do best, if it ain't for the consumer don't hold your breath waiting for it.
HAHA if apple goes to arm for desktop you will see the death of apple desktops. Lets not fool ourselves, arm may be great for mobility, but its not where close to Intel desktop performance nor will they ever be close.
arm dominance will be gone as soon as 2014. Intel already beats dual core arm cpu with its single core solution and intel fab is about 3 to 4 years ahead of any foundry
i think you are missing the big picture. intel is late getting this tick out and it is expected to only be 15% faster clock for clock. The cost per node in foundry build out is growing faster each genation. First we saw the death of frequecy growth along the lines of Moores law. That happened back in 2002 when prescott failed to add anything but extra heat when the clock reached between 2 and 3 ghz. Next we are seeing bigger is better falling by the wayside in gpu's. first AMD went with smaller more efficient cores in their flagship (6970) and now nvidia hs followed suit. The 680 launch has ditched the framework from the 580 and used a smaller die size to focus on performance per watt.
Intel is 2 generations late to the smart phone wars. First the iPhone stole mindshare and developers attention from Windows machines, and then the iPad killed netbooks and now it is eating the 2nd laptop in the family market. Worse still enterprises are busy depolying the more locked down and portble iPad through out the fortune 500. Intel is trying to fight the Macbook air with marketing when the problem is windows. You can't make a profitable laptop for under $800 with the windows and intel taxes taking $250 off the top.
I do not believe that Intel or Microsoft are unaware of these problems. The problem is that they are both addicted to the cash flow from their current business model. How is a one process node lead going to save Intel if the competition can sell $20 chips that provide 50% of the processing power with one tenth the power draw? The increased efficeincy gives Arm the room to grow more powerful chips. What will Intel do in 2 more nodes (4 years) when 90% of the power of their chips only costs $20. How will they pay for the 10 billion $ fabs needed to build their chips if 40% of their market has already switched?
I want my first Mac, I have Money, I'm Waiting.... I just dont know what the hell I'm waiting on because I dont know what's coming because of all this secret secret crap. It's driving my NUTS!!!
"More importantly, we expect demand upside from iPhone and iPad (83% of gross profit) to more than offset any Mac downside (9% of gross profit)," Huberty writes.
Great more iOS users... now they can change the name again to. Apple toys
amd was in the running for new airs but failed to deliver in quantity and quality. Excellent gpu performance but low cpu performance.
True, but that doesn't mean that they won't be considered in the future. AMD's competitiveness has cycled back and forth for decades. Sometimes they're not very competitive. At other times, they do pretty well. I could picture them making some headway - perhaps in the iMac line, for example.
Of course, I don't see them replacing Intel across the board.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljocampo
The Air was/is a huge seller for Apple. It shows that powerful is not what it use to be. So ARM seems to be working well for task not needing so much power, like content consumption in iOS devices, and Airplay allows it to migrate to larger screens.
How does the MBA show that ARM is working well? The MBA uses an Intel chip and tells you nothing about whether ARM would work at all.
Even though the Air uses a low performance Intel chip (by some standards), it's still probably an order of magnitude faster than the fastest ARM chip available today.
i think you are missing the big picture. intel is late getting this tick out and it is expected to only be 15% faster clock for clock. The cost per node in foundry build out is growing faster each genation. First we saw the death of frequecy growth along the lines of Moores law. That happened back in 2002 when prescott failed to add anything but extra heat when the clock reached between 2 and 3 ghz. Next we are seeing bigger is better falling by the wayside in gpu's. first AMD went with smaller more efficient cores in their flagship (6970) and now nvidia hs followed suit. The 680 launch has ditched the framework from the 580 and used a smaller die size to focus on performance per watt.
Intel is 2 generations late to the smart phone wars. First the iPhone stole mindshare and developers attention from Windows machines, and then the iPad killed netbooks and now it is eating the 2nd laptop in the family market. Worse still enterprises are busy depolying the more locked down and portble iPad through out the fortune 500. Intel is trying to fight the Macbook air with marketing when the problem is windows. You can't make a profitable laptop for under $800 with the windows and intel taxes taking $250 off the top.
I do not believe that Intel or Microsoft are unaware of these problems. The problem is that they are both addicted to the cash flow from their current business model. How is a one process node lead going to save Intel if the competition can sell $20 chips that provide 50% of the processing power with one tenth the power draw? The increased efficeincy gives Arm the room to grow more powerful chips. What will Intel do in 2 more nodes (4 years) when 90% of the power of their chips only costs $20. How will they pay for the 10 billion $ fabs needed to build their chips if 40% of their market has already switched?
it is not a good time to own these companis.
If Apple was so stupid to move their Macbooks to ARM....they would lose me as a customer in a heartbeat. I love my iPhone, love my iPad, but at times I need a computer to do real work. An ARM CPU would kill a Macbook for anything but web surfing.
I use iPhoto, iMovie, Aperture, Office.....all of which are not speed demons on my current Intel Core 2 duo 2009 2.53ghz Macbook. I want the latest i5 or i7 in a Macbook, I plan to buy in the fall, not some ARM chip or even some ultra power sipping version of the i5/i7.
"More importantly, we expect demand upside from iPhone and iPad (83% of gross profit) to more than offset any Mac downside (9% of gross profit)," Huberty writes.
Great more iOS users... now they can change the name again to. Apple toys
IOS : dumbing down of apple will be complete
Except some of us aren't about to buy any iPhones or iPads until Apple has a computer we want to spend money on.
True, but that doesn't mean that they won't be considered in the future. AMD's competitiveness has cycled back and forth for decades. Sometimes they're not very competitive. At other times, they do pretty well. I could picture them making some headway - perhaps in the iMac line, for example.
Of course, I don't see them replacing Intel across the board.
How does the MBA show that ARM is working well? The MBA uses an Intel chip and tells you nothing about whether ARM would work at all.
Even though the Air uses a low performance Intel chip (by some standards), it's still probably an order of magnitude faster than the fastest ARM chip available today.
Well maybe I wasn't clear enough. I know the Air has an Intel chip not an ARM chip. I was using the Air's normal usage (needing less powerful chips) which have shown that many user just don't need the power of a desktop Mac. I was relating the type usage in iOS devices as comparable to what people are using their Air's for. Many people have moved their personal productivity task over to iOS devices. Post PC era? I do believe the ARM or something like it or even an Intel Ultrabook chip, will replace the current chips in future revisions of Apple's laptops. My bet is on a custom ARM out of PA Semi but Apple's not dumping Intel in the near future for the reasons you mention. But it will happen IMO.
As for power and speed of ARM. I think people are judging ARM by the current state of its infrastructure and performance, and I am look in the crystal ball and seeing a really upgraded ARM and who's to say Apple couldn't use multiple ARM chips working in tandem powering an iMac. I just believe Apple eventual wants to power all their devices with their custom designed SoC chips.
Comments
Tick tock...
Sales go up when you release new stuff. Who would have ever predicted something like that?
I'm not surprised at all, I tell anyone that will listen to wait no matter what sort of PC you want to buy. At this point you are talking weeks to a couple of months.
What's funny is that the average Joe doesn't understand the product cycles and how it affects their shipments. People see a decline in sales and think everyone is abandoning Apple, when it is just a simple preconceived drop due to ramping down of one product and ramping production of a new product that is creating pent up demand.
Not to worry, the lines will still be out the door come product release time. Apple stores are still packed just it's Christmas. Jeeeeeezzz.
I cannot believe the paranoia at Intel. I guess Andy Grove's management style is still alive and well at Intel. I don't know why Intel cares, Apple still uses Intel processors for their laptops and desktops. So if the computer that shipped has an Apple logo or not, they shouldn't mind. I mean at least Apple also uses an Intel designed Thunderbolt connector which the others don't.
amd was in the running for new airs but failed to deliver in quantity and quality. Excellent gpu performance but low cpu performance.
In the AIR, Mini and some other machines the CPU performance would not have been that bad. Now that AMD is producing they are getting a lot of design ins due to the APUs extremely good value in laptops. Llano isn't as bad as many seem to believe.
what new hardware? just put a beta voice-recognition software like Siri on every single Mac books and call it "Mac Book S"
Sales go up when you release new stuff. Who would have ever predicted something like that?
Well, not Palm or HP.
amd was in the running for new airs but failed to deliver in quantity and quality. Excellent gpu performance but low cpu performance.
The Air was/is a huge seller for Apple. It shows that powerful is not what it use to be. So ARM seems to be working well for task not needing so much power, like content consumption in iOS devices, and Airplay allows it to migrate to larger screens. That said, if ARM can leverage the GPU by oft-loading a lot of the CPU's computation task to multi-core GPU designs, then ARM, along with Apple's optimization and propriety design, might/can be as powerful as an iMac for the consumer market.*
* Apple's market has effectively changed from Pro to Prosumer to Consumer by anybody's metric over the last few years, and since Apple only seems to do what they do best, if it ain't for the consumer don't hold your breath waiting for it.
Wonder if Intel is pretending to be late with ivy bridge just so it's ultra campaign can gather steam?
My thoughts exactly
HAHA if apple goes to arm for desktop you will see the death of apple desktops. Lets not fool ourselves, arm may be great for mobility, but its not where close to Intel desktop performance nor will they ever be close.
arm dominance will be gone as soon as 2014. Intel already beats dual core arm cpu with its single core solution and intel fab is about 3 to 4 years ahead of any foundry
i think you are missing the big picture. intel is late getting this tick out and it is expected to only be 15% faster clock for clock. The cost per node in foundry build out is growing faster each genation. First we saw the death of frequecy growth along the lines of Moores law. That happened back in 2002 when prescott failed to add anything but extra heat when the clock reached between 2 and 3 ghz. Next we are seeing bigger is better falling by the wayside in gpu's. first AMD went with smaller more efficient cores in their flagship (6970) and now nvidia hs followed suit. The 680 launch has ditched the framework from the 580 and used a smaller die size to focus on performance per watt.
Intel is 2 generations late to the smart phone wars. First the iPhone stole mindshare and developers attention from Windows machines, and then the iPad killed netbooks and now it is eating the 2nd laptop in the family market. Worse still enterprises are busy depolying the more locked down and portble iPad through out the fortune 500. Intel is trying to fight the Macbook air with marketing when the problem is windows. You can't make a profitable laptop for under $800 with the windows and intel taxes taking $250 off the top.
I do not believe that Intel or Microsoft are unaware of these problems. The problem is that they are both addicted to the cash flow from their current business model. How is a one process node lead going to save Intel if the competition can sell $20 chips that provide 50% of the processing power with one tenth the power draw? The increased efficeincy gives Arm the room to grow more powerful chips. What will Intel do in 2 more nodes (4 years) when 90% of the power of their chips only costs $20. How will they pay for the 10 billion $ fabs needed to build their chips if 40% of their market has already switched?
it is not a good time to own these companis.
Great more iOS users... now they can change the name again to. Apple toys
IOS : dumbing down of apple will be complete
what new hardware? just put a beta voice-recognition software like Siri on every single Mac books and call it "Mac Book S"
lol.
amd was in the running for new airs but failed to deliver in quantity and quality. Excellent gpu performance but low cpu performance.
True, but that doesn't mean that they won't be considered in the future. AMD's competitiveness has cycled back and forth for decades. Sometimes they're not very competitive. At other times, they do pretty well. I could picture them making some headway - perhaps in the iMac line, for example.
Of course, I don't see them replacing Intel across the board.
The Air was/is a huge seller for Apple. It shows that powerful is not what it use to be. So ARM seems to be working well for task not needing so much power, like content consumption in iOS devices, and Airplay allows it to migrate to larger screens.
How does the MBA show that ARM is working well? The MBA uses an Intel chip and tells you nothing about whether ARM would work at all.
Even though the Air uses a low performance Intel chip (by some standards), it's still probably an order of magnitude faster than the fastest ARM chip available today.
i think you are missing the big picture. intel is late getting this tick out and it is expected to only be 15% faster clock for clock. The cost per node in foundry build out is growing faster each genation. First we saw the death of frequecy growth along the lines of Moores law. That happened back in 2002 when prescott failed to add anything but extra heat when the clock reached between 2 and 3 ghz. Next we are seeing bigger is better falling by the wayside in gpu's. first AMD went with smaller more efficient cores in their flagship (6970) and now nvidia hs followed suit. The 680 launch has ditched the framework from the 580 and used a smaller die size to focus on performance per watt.
Intel is 2 generations late to the smart phone wars. First the iPhone stole mindshare and developers attention from Windows machines, and then the iPad killed netbooks and now it is eating the 2nd laptop in the family market. Worse still enterprises are busy depolying the more locked down and portble iPad through out the fortune 500. Intel is trying to fight the Macbook air with marketing when the problem is windows. You can't make a profitable laptop for under $800 with the windows and intel taxes taking $250 off the top.
I do not believe that Intel or Microsoft are unaware of these problems. The problem is that they are both addicted to the cash flow from their current business model. How is a one process node lead going to save Intel if the competition can sell $20 chips that provide 50% of the processing power with one tenth the power draw? The increased efficeincy gives Arm the room to grow more powerful chips. What will Intel do in 2 more nodes (4 years) when 90% of the power of their chips only costs $20. How will they pay for the 10 billion $ fabs needed to build their chips if 40% of their market has already switched?
it is not a good time to own these companis.
If Apple was so stupid to move their Macbooks to ARM....they would lose me as a customer in a heartbeat. I love my iPhone, love my iPad, but at times I need a computer to do real work. An ARM CPU would kill a Macbook for anything but web surfing.
I use iPhoto, iMovie, Aperture, Office.....all of which are not speed demons on my current Intel Core 2 duo 2009 2.53ghz Macbook. I want the latest i5 or i7 in a Macbook, I plan to buy in the fall, not some ARM chip or even some ultra power sipping version of the i5/i7.
"More importantly, we expect demand upside from iPhone and iPad (83% of gross profit) to more than offset any Mac downside (9% of gross profit)," Huberty writes.
Great more iOS users... now they can change the name again to. Apple toys
IOS : dumbing down of apple will be complete
Except some of us aren't about to buy any iPhones or iPads until Apple has a computer we want to spend money on.
True, but that doesn't mean that they won't be considered in the future. AMD's competitiveness has cycled back and forth for decades. Sometimes they're not very competitive. At other times, they do pretty well. I could picture them making some headway - perhaps in the iMac line, for example.
Of course, I don't see them replacing Intel across the board.
How does the MBA show that ARM is working well? The MBA uses an Intel chip and tells you nothing about whether ARM would work at all.
Even though the Air uses a low performance Intel chip (by some standards), it's still probably an order of magnitude faster than the fastest ARM chip available today.
Well maybe I wasn't clear enough. I know the Air has an Intel chip not an ARM chip. I was using the Air's normal usage (needing less powerful chips) which have shown that many user just don't need the power of a desktop Mac. I was relating the type usage in iOS devices as comparable to what people are using their Air's for. Many people have moved their personal productivity task over to iOS devices. Post PC era? I do believe the ARM or something like it or even an Intel Ultrabook chip, will replace the current chips in future revisions of Apple's laptops. My bet is on a custom ARM out of PA Semi but Apple's not dumping Intel in the near future for the reasons you mention. But it will happen IMO.
As for power and speed of ARM. I think people are judging ARM by the current state of its infrastructure and performance, and I am look in the crystal ball and seeing a really upgraded ARM and who's to say Apple couldn't use multiple ARM chips working in tandem powering an iMac. I just believe Apple eventual wants to power all their devices with their custom designed SoC chips.