<p>And giving the child the password to your iTunes account is the same as giving them your credit card.<br /> <br /> What part of 'personal responsibility' do you not understand?</p>
Parents are NOT giving their child the password to their iTunes account.
Before Apple fixed it with iOS 4.3 there was a fifteen minute window after you make a purchase during which time you don't need to re-enter your password for any further purchases. So if you buy a new app for your child then hand them the device to play, your child can then make in app purchases without a password.
Ps the new forum sucks on the iPad. I get a "the rich text editor is not compatible with your browser" and the quoted message is a bunch of HTML.
Parents are NOT giving their child the password to their iTunes account.
I'm sure that you know that for certain, but I'm here to tell you you're completely wrong about that. They absolutely are.
Quote:
Before Apple fixed it with iOS 4.3 there was a fifteen minute window after you make a purchase during which time you don't need to re-enter your password for any further purchases. So if you buy a new app for your child then hand them the device to play, your child can then make in app purchases without a password.
And your claim is that in every single possible instance in which a child could have purchased something without the parent's consent, the device was running a version of iOS prior to iOS 4.3 AND the password had been entered less than 15 minutes prior.
Considering Apple knows when the IAP was made, they can easily determine if the IAP was made within the fifteen minute window. If this isn't the case wouldn't Apple have said so rather than arguing for dismissal because they fixed the 15 minute window?
This lawsuit is absolutely ridiculous. These parents have no case. I would be really shocked if Apple loses. My lawyer buddies just shook their heads in disbelief when I asked them what they thought about the case. It's a pretty sad state of affairs with the court system now. I don't know what this judge was thinking to allow this case to move forward.
The judge HAS to allow it to go forward.
Apple asked for dismissal - which is only allowed when there is no disagreement over the facts and the law is completely clear.
Those examples are reasonable, like a car for $100000, especially if the car is beautiful looking, powerful, of a high quality, etc. But for imaginary coins just to play a video game? Apple, not the government, should make these charges more reasonable, I think, especially for games that are targeted at children, and who may not fully understand the difference between real money and game money. And parents can't watch their children playing with their iPad or iPhone all the time, right? And even free games require a password to download them, the same one for in-app purchases. And what about someone pressing an in-app purchase button by mistake. This almost happened to me. I was really worried. Later, I found out that in settings I can disable in-app purchases. Perhaps this should be done by default, though this is a slightly different topic. Anyway, if a person's credit card was inadvertently charged for $5, maybe ok, but how would someone feel if it became, say $300, from 3 in-app purchases? Happy? Fair? Well, if done deliberately, perhaps, but accidentally, I think not. It seems unreasonable, possibly even a kind or trickery.
My understanding is that a summary judgement happens during a trial after evidence is presented and testimony is given. That hasn’t happened yet. A dismissal can happen for the same reason - the layer argues with the judge that the claims do not match up with direct evidence and that the other side knows better and should be dismissed outright. However this happens generally before the trial happens. I don’t think you can get a summary judgment at the point of the trial - the only option would be a dismissal.
Blaming others for your own stupidity … If you have kids then buy them iPod touches or iPhones (i don’t really care) and fucking iTunes gift cards, not your credit card data.
Doesn't absolve them of responsibility. You don't give the child the device without teaching them how to use it and how to be responsible with it.
true, but, for example, can an 8 year old understand responsibility? The child will get excited and just want to play the game, and that includes getting imaginary coins if needed, and which he/she probably doesn't understand that this costs real money and what the value means.
What about this: the in-app purchases can't cost more than the app itself?
Before you say, "That doesn't work; free apps allow in-app purchases," I'll amend "or more than $25 if the app is free". That seems reasonable. Not that it's not the user's fault in the first place.
yes, $25 seems a good suggestion for free apps, and it's a lot more reasonable than $100, and I agree that in essence, it is the user's fault, yes, though people do make mistakes sometimes, and especially non-technical people. Perhaps Apple should require that a confirmation message should always appear, and that the password should always be re-entered for in-app purchases. This may help accidental or unwanted in-app purchases.
Blaming others for your own stupidity … If you have kids then buy them iPod touches or iPhones (i don’t really care) and fucking iTunes gift cards, not your credit card data.
Apart from your offensive bad language, your idea of an iTunes gift card is a very good one! It may mean having to deal with multiple accounts for updates, but I guess it's better than being shocked with multiple $100 purchases. In addition, what do you think about having in-app purchases turned off by default? Excuse my ignorance, but I didn't realise this function even existed for months when I bought my iPhone (I was new to Apple). Now I always have it turned off. Then no-one will make an in-app purchase by accident.
My understanding is that a summary judgement happens during a trial after evidence is presented and testimony is given. That hasn’t happened yet. A dismissal can happen for the same reason - the layer argues with the judge that the claims do not match up with direct evidence and that the other side knows better and should be dismissed outright. However this happens generally before the trial happens. I don’t think you can get a summary judgment at the point of the trial - the only option would be a dismissal.
After the evidence is given and the testimony is heard, a regular judgement is rendered.
A dismissal can happen at various times. Before the trial, or after the plaintiff closes its case are two possibiilities.
Summary judgement is not given during a trial. It is given before the trial begins.
If the parents complain to Apple Care, Apple should just issue a credit and eat the cost. Apple should also auto-flag all children's apps for password prompt on every purchase. I'm not saying it's Apple's fault--I'm not wielding torches and pitchforks like some of you--but to me, this is a customer service issue, not something worth going to court over.
Comments
concerned/aggrieved parents, baloney. these people are just another pack of class action trolls hoping to cash in.
Parents are NOT giving their child the password to their iTunes account.
Before Apple fixed it with iOS 4.3 there was a fifteen minute window after you make a purchase during which time you don't need to re-enter your password for any further purchases. So if you buy a new app for your child then hand them the device to play, your child can then make in app purchases without a password.
Ps the new forum sucks on the iPad. I get a "the rich text editor is not compatible with your browser" and the quoted message is a bunch of HTML.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando
Parents are NOT giving their child the password to their iTunes account.
I'm sure that you know that for certain, but I'm here to tell you you're completely wrong about that. They absolutely are.
Quote:
Before Apple fixed it with iOS 4.3 there was a fifteen minute window after you make a purchase during which time you don't need to re-enter your password for any further purchases. So if you buy a new app for your child then hand them the device to play, your child can then make in app purchases without a password.
And your claim is that in every single possible instance in which a child could have purchased something without the parent's consent, the device was running a version of iOS prior to iOS 4.3 AND the password had been entered less than 15 minutes prior.
This claim is nonsense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boltsfan17
This lawsuit is absolutely ridiculous. These parents have no case. I would be really shocked if Apple loses. My lawyer buddies just shook their heads in disbelief when I asked them what they thought about the case. It's a pretty sad state of affairs with the court system now. I don't know what this judge was thinking to allow this case to move forward.
The judge HAS to allow it to go forward.
Apple asked for dismissal - which is only allowed when there is no disagreement over the facts and the law is completely clear.
Ah...no.
That would be summary judgement.
You really should stay quiet on this legal stuff.
Those examples are reasonable, like a car for $100000, especially if the car is beautiful looking, powerful, of a high quality, etc. But for imaginary coins just to play a video game? Apple, not the government, should make these charges more reasonable, I think, especially for games that are targeted at children, and who may not fully understand the difference between real money and game money. And parents can't watch their children playing with their iPad or iPhone all the time, right? And even free games require a password to download them, the same one for in-app purchases. And what about someone pressing an in-app purchase button by mistake. This almost happened to me. I was really worried. Later, I found out that in settings I can disable in-app purchases. Perhaps this should be done by default, though this is a slightly different topic. Anyway, if a person's credit card was inadvertently charged for $5, maybe ok, but how would someone feel if it became, say $300, from 3 in-app purchases? Happy? Fair? Well, if done deliberately, perhaps, but accidentally, I think not. It seems unreasonable, possibly even a kind or trickery.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dolphin0611
And parents can't watch their children playing with their iPad or iPhone all the time, right?
Doesn't absolve them of responsibility. You don't give the child the device without teaching them how to use it and how to be responsible with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz
Ah...no.
That would be summary judgement.
You really should stay quiet on this legal stuff.
My understanding is that a summary judgement happens during a trial after evidence is presented and testimony is given. That hasn’t happened yet. A dismissal can happen for the same reason - the layer argues with the judge that the claims do not match up with direct evidence and that the other side knows better and should be dismissed outright. However this happens generally before the trial happens. I don’t think you can get a summary judgment at the point of the trial - the only option would be a dismissal.
Blaming others for your own stupidity … If you have kids then buy them iPod touches or iPhones (i don’t really care) and fucking iTunes gift cards, not your credit card data.
a
oops
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Doesn't absolve them of responsibility. You don't give the child the device without teaching them how to use it and how to be responsible with it.
true, but, for example, can an 8 year old understand responsibility? The child will get excited and just want to play the game, and that includes getting imaginary coins if needed, and which he/she probably doesn't understand that this costs real money and what the value means.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
What about this: the in-app purchases can't cost more than the app itself?
Before you say, "That doesn't work; free apps allow in-app purchases," I'll amend "or more than $25 if the app is free". That seems reasonable. Not that it's not the user's fault in the first place.
yes, $25 seems a good suggestion for free apps, and it's a lot more reasonable than $100, and I agree that in essence, it is the user's fault, yes, though people do make mistakes sometimes, and especially non-technical people. Perhaps Apple should require that a confirmation message should always appear, and that the password should always be re-entered for in-app purchases. This may help accidental or unwanted in-app purchases.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Povilas
Blaming others for your own stupidity … If you have kids then buy them iPod touches or iPhones (i don’t really care) and fucking iTunes gift cards, not your credit card data.
Apart from your offensive bad language, your idea of an iTunes gift card is a very good one! It may mean having to deal with multiple accounts for updates, but I guess it's better than being shocked with multiple $100 purchases. In addition, what do you think about having in-app purchases turned off by default? Excuse my ignorance, but I didn't realise this function even existed for months when I bought my iPhone (I was new to Apple). Now I always have it turned off. Then no-one will make an in-app purchase by accident.
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz
Ah...no.
That would be summary judgement.
You really should stay quiet on this legal stuff.
The standards for dismissal are essentially the same for summary judgment and pre-trial dismissal.
Considering how messed up your understanding of the law is on all the other threads you've participated in, you are clearly not an expert in any way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by diddy
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz
Ah...no.
That would be summary judgement.
You really should stay quiet on this legal stuff.
My understanding is that a summary judgement happens during a trial after evidence is presented and testimony is given. That hasn’t happened yet. A dismissal can happen for the same reason - the layer argues with the judge that the claims do not match up with direct evidence and that the other side knows better and should be dismissed outright. However this happens generally before the trial happens. I don’t think you can get a summary judgment at the point of the trial - the only option would be a dismissal.
After the evidence is given and the testimony is heard, a regular judgement is rendered.
A dismissal can happen at various times. Before the trial, or after the plaintiff closes its case are two possibiilities.
Summary judgement is not given during a trial. It is given before the trial begins.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz
Ah...no.
That would be summary judgement.
You really should stay quiet on this legal stuff.
The standards for dismissal are essentially the same for summary judgment and pre-trial dismissal.
Prove it. You are hopelessly confused.
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz
After the evidence is given and the testimony is heard, a regular judgement is rendered.
A dismissal can happen at various times. Before the trial, or after the plaintiff closes its case are two possibiilities.
Summary judgement is not given during a trial. It is given before the trial begins.
Which happens to be exactly what this case was about. The judge ordered dismissal of some complaints and allowed the others to proceed.
It's interesting that you're flip flopping all over the place - while accusing others of not understanding the law.
I'm not saying it's Apple's fault--I'm not wielding torches and pitchforks like some of you--but to me, this is a customer service issue, not something worth going to court over.