I see where you're coming from with your stats in response to the reply but you do know that MS doesn't put out their own pc.
They license off their software to 3rd party players and they in turn glut the market up with windows based products. It is a very easy business when all you have to do is buy your parts off the shelf and install someone else's software. Same as with Android.
Apple on the other hand makes their on software and hardware(for the most part) and take full responsibility for their products. Got a problem with your mac hardware or software? Go to Apple.
Got a problem with your HP Pavillion? Don't even think about calling MS.
<p> </p><div class="quote-container"> <span>Quote:</span> <div class="quote-block"> Originally Posted by <strong>Technarchy</strong> <a href="/t/149556/mostly-complete-release-preview-of-windows-8-coming-in-june#post_2099881"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" /></a><br /> <br /> <p> I actually agree. Windows 8 is a bigger deal than some on here think for a few reasons.</p> <p> </p> <p> I'm considering overhauling my current PC hardware and installing Windows 8, but for sure I am adding a new Apple desktop as well. Just waiting for the Sandy Bridge refresh with the biggest and baddest graphics you can get.</p> </div></div><p> </p><p> Care to list any of those few reasons? I've played with Windows 8 a bit. I think it's a horrible mess of conflicting user interfaces. FYI I love Windows 7 and actually run it as the only OS on my iMac since Lion is such a POS in terms of stability and performance. </p>
So far I agree with totally. I too use 7 in a VM and it is usable, kind of XP that works. Still all the same annoying stuff but as I say, ok. 8 seems like lipstick on a pig to me.
1.25 billion Windows PCs running today. (That includes all versions of Windows.)
234 million Android phones and 13 million Android tablets (as per IDC), for a total of 247 million Android devices.
112 million iPhones and 40 million iPads, leading to 152 million iOS devices.
76%... no details about mac's (less than 10% I still think?)...
So no small percentage.
You can add 60 million Mac's, but your right thats not a small percentage.
Not as much wrong as 'virtually all computers around the world run Windows', I would think.
But never mind, the point is that in a few years time almost everyone has a smartphone and most laptops will be iPads (or other tablets) and a significant portion of the remaining laptops will be Macs; which will reduce Windows to 10% or so.
A phone is not a real computer. If you can't do Enterprise-level development with something, it may be really "neat", but it is not a legitimate computing device.
A phone is not a real computer. If you can't do Enterprise-level development with something, it may be really "neat", but it is not a legitimate computing device.
Who made you the arbiter of what defines a real computer?
I actually agree. Windows 8 is a bigger deal than some on here think for a few reasons.
I'm considering overhauling my current PC hardware and installing Windows 8, but for sure I am adding a new Apple desktop as well. Just waiting for the Sandy Bridge refresh with the biggest and baddest graphics you can get.
Why would you keep two platforms up to date like that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoC
"This new format takes some getting used to....."
I think it is worse than you imply...but the following is only my opinion, not some scientific study.
I think that W8 tiles, though modern looking, do not match what the human mind sees as instinctly "organized" and "easily grasped". Hence, the learning curve is going to put people off...again. For corporate users, that can be a killer.
People for at least about 10,000 years have put ideas/character information in multiple rows down a papyrus or clay slab.
A 2 dimensional surface of patterned squares and rectangles has a disorienting visual effect on me. I am not sure I can get over it, but it would most likely be by just staying with Win7 or turning off the so called "tiles" (or staying on Macs which I also use). I detect "Prettyfication" at work inside MS.
"Tiles": The visual disorientation of W8 is something like I feel when looking at complex tiled wall surfaces (which as art is ok, as we don't look to "use" or "find" individual tiles). There is no one way for the user to psychologically "see" organization as it is all just a mass of different size visuals.
A different form of the same effect is what I personally experience with users who don't want to use Windows Explorer to organize data into folders. They put up a full desktop mass of disorienting icons which are damn near useless for quickly finding any but the half dozen most used icons and those are usually in a row or column starting at a corner of the screen.
I think Microsoft is making a mistake of using Apple's brainstorming term "Think Different" as being equal to "Distort Different" or some other similar invented iconic term used in internal MS speak.
Working where I feel visual distortion detracts me from getting things done fast. Photo backgrounds, flighty colored menu bars, translucency, gobs of artistic icons and moving items are detriments to clarity and ease of use.
iOS actually moves in close to visual confusion with grids of app icons. The saving grace on an iPhone is that you can limit the icons on the first & subsequent pages to just the few you need. I have seen users flipping pages to find an App and they just don't know how to find it easily.
Tiles of icons have been done with computers as long as there were GUIs. The thing that's new is lengthening some tiles. I think making a linear list of options is impractical for computers.
Some of the difficulty in managing apps spatially is there are too many of them. If a user wants that many apps, the only good way to call one up is to use the search
Quote:
Originally Posted by kkqd1337
Brilliant news.. Can't wait. I still think Mac needs to sort it's OS out to make itself a proper workhorse OS like Windows
Apple, not Mac. Apple is the company that makes Macs. Mac is just the name of a computer platform.
A phone is not a real computer. If you can't do Enterprise-level development with something, it may be really "neat", but it is not a legitimate computing device.
A computer is not a real computer. If it can't reproduce (a)sexually, it may be really "neat", but it is not a legitimate computing device.
Brilliant news.. Can't wait. I still think Mac needs to sort it's OS out to make itself a proper workhorse OS like Windows
Care to explain why Mac OS X isn't a 'proper workhorse OS like Windows'? Please be specific.
In reality, OS X is every bit as much a 'proper workhorse OS' as Windows. In fact, since it's a full-featured Unix, some people would argue that it's better. And for the few Windows-only apps you might require (the number is declining), you can always use Parallels or Fusion.
Oh, and btw, it's hard to take anyone who doesn't know the difference between 'Mac' and 'Apple' seriously - even if the rest of your post weren't so inane.
I actually agree. Windows 8 is a bigger deal than some on here think for a few reasons.
I'm considering overhauling my current PC hardware and installing Windows 8, but for sure I am adding a new Apple desktop as well. Just waiting for the Sandy Bridge refresh with the biggest and baddest graphics you can get.
Basing my opinion on about as much fact as you do here ....
I am more and more getting the feeling that Windows 8 will not only be a flop, but a flop of Vista like proportions. The clients I see daily that are still using Windows will generally use whatever comes on the machine so sales-wise, Microsoft is safe as it always is. People will buy it because they have no choice. On the other hand, despite all the superficial changes, Windows has basically stayed the same in general layout for about 17 years now (since Windows 95 when they worked out their first basic GUI).
All Windows until now has used the Start Menu as a way to organise access to programs and devices. This time it's different.
It seems rather obvious that Microsoft will have to provide a way of putting that Start menu back, at least as a hack. If they don't, it's 100% certain that third parties will do so anyway. This means that most installations of Windows 8 (call centres, factories, offices, businesses, etc.), will Immediately remove the Metro "layer" and never think about it again.
If Microsoft sticks to it's guns though (and they will probably try to for at least 6 months), and doesn't put the Start menu back, huge amounts of Jane and Joe Average folks who go out to buy a new computer will be totally lost, and totally pissed off that the Start Menu is gone. There will be outrage, there will be calls for a fix, and almost overnight there will be many hacks to get rid of Metro. The biggest search trending on Google a week after Windows 8's release date, will be "How do I get the Start Menu back?"
The consumers will get shafted by MS as they always have been. The business customers that are MS's true customers will get a "fix" on the sly, and people will start talking about "how to fix Metro" (for Windows 9).
If Microsoft sticks to it's guns though (and they will probably try to for at least 6 months), and doesn't put the Start menu back, huge amounts of Jane and Joe Average folks who go out to buy a new computer will be totally lost, and totally pissed off that the Start Menu is gone. There will be outrage, there will be calls for a fix, and almost overnight there will be many hacks to get rid of Metro. The biggest search trending on Google a week after Windows 8's release date, will be "How do I get the Start Menu back?"
I actually foresee zero problems showing up on the Internet and Windows 8 appearing a success.
… Because without the Start button, tons of people won't know how to get to their applications to get ON the Internet to complain about it.
Comments
I see where you're coming from with your stats in response to the reply but you do know that MS doesn't put out their own pc.
They license off their software to 3rd party players and they in turn glut the market up with windows based products. It is a very easy business when all you have to do is buy your parts off the shelf and install someone else's software. Same as with Android.
Apple on the other hand makes their on software and hardware(for the most part) and take full responsibility for their products. Got a problem with your mac hardware or software? Go to Apple.
Got a problem with your HP Pavillion? Don't even think about calling MS.
But nonetheless, the number don't lie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxMacCary
Vista ....
Windows 7 ....
Windows 8 ....
And, I understand, Windows 9 is just around the corner ....
Who. The. Heck. CARES .....
10.5...
10.6...
10.7...
10.8...
10.9?
What's. Your. Point? Every technology company releases a new version of software almost annually. Obviously you cared enough to read and comment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe
What's. Your. Point? Every technology company releases a new version of software almost annually. Obviously you cared enough to read and comment.
Note the name of the site we're on.
Hey, Einstein ...
You can't tell the difference between 10.n UPDATES for OS X and COMPLETELY DIFFERENT OSes/UIs for Windows?!?
Dope ....
?!?!?!?!?!?
What are you, twelve?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxMacCary
You can't tell the difference between 10.n UPDATES for OS X and COMPLETELY DIFFERENT OSes/UIs for Windows?!?
The point releases of OS X are equivalent to Windows releases. Don't pretend they're not.
So far I agree with totally. I too use 7 in a VM and it is usable, kind of XP that works. Still all the same annoying stuff but as I say, ok. 8 seems like lipstick on a pig to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mausz
http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-12-06/tech/30481049_1_android-apps-ios
1.25 billion Windows PCs running today. (That includes all versions of Windows.)
234 million Android phones and 13 million Android tablets (as per IDC), for a total of 247 million Android devices.
112 million iPhones and 40 million iPads, leading to 152 million iOS devices.
76%... no details about mac's (less than 10% I still think?)...
So no small percentage.
You can add 60 million Mac's, but your right thats not a small percentage.
Not as much wrong as 'virtually all computers around the world run Windows', I would think.
But never mind, the point is that in a few years time almost everyone has a smartphone and most laptops will be iPads (or other tablets) and a significant portion of the remaining laptops will be Macs; which will reduce Windows to 10% or so.
J.
A phone is not a real computer. If you can't do Enterprise-level development with something, it may be really "neat", but it is not a legitimate computing device.
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxSampleXX
A phone is not a real computer. If you can't do Enterprise-level development with something, it may be really "neat", but it is not a legitimate computing device.
Who made you the arbiter of what defines a real computer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Technarchy
I actually agree. Windows 8 is a bigger deal than some on here think for a few reasons.
I'm considering overhauling my current PC hardware and installing Windows 8, but for sure I am adding a new Apple desktop as well. Just waiting for the Sandy Bridge refresh with the biggest and baddest graphics you can get.
Why would you keep two platforms up to date like that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoC
"This new format takes some getting used to....."
I think it is worse than you imply...but the following is only my opinion, not some scientific study.
I think that W8 tiles, though modern looking, do not match what the human mind sees as instinctly "organized" and "easily grasped". Hence, the learning curve is going to put people off...again. For corporate users, that can be a killer.
People for at least about 10,000 years have put ideas/character information in multiple rows down a papyrus or clay slab.
A 2 dimensional surface of patterned squares and rectangles has a disorienting visual effect on me. I am not sure I can get over it, but it would most likely be by just staying with Win7 or turning off the so called "tiles" (or staying on Macs which I also use). I detect "Prettyfication" at work inside MS.
"Tiles": The visual disorientation of W8 is something like I feel when looking at complex tiled wall surfaces (which as art is ok, as we don't look to "use" or "find" individual tiles). There is no one way for the user to psychologically "see" organization as it is all just a mass of different size visuals.
A different form of the same effect is what I personally experience with users who don't want to use Windows Explorer to organize data into folders. They put up a full desktop mass of disorienting icons which are damn near useless for quickly finding any but the half dozen most used icons and those are usually in a row or column starting at a corner of the screen.
I think Microsoft is making a mistake of using Apple's brainstorming term "Think Different" as being equal to "Distort Different" or some other similar invented iconic term used in internal MS speak.
Working where I feel visual distortion detracts me from getting things done fast. Photo backgrounds, flighty colored menu bars, translucency, gobs of artistic icons and moving items are detriments to clarity and ease of use.
iOS actually moves in close to visual confusion with grids of app icons. The saving grace on an iPhone is that you can limit the icons on the first & subsequent pages to just the few you need. I have seen users flipping pages to find an App and they just don't know how to find it easily.
Tiles of icons have been done with computers as long as there were GUIs. The thing that's new is lengthening some tiles. I think making a linear list of options is impractical for computers.
Some of the difficulty in managing apps spatially is there are too many of them. If a user wants that many apps, the only good way to call one up is to use the search
Quote:
Originally Posted by kkqd1337
Brilliant news.. Can't wait. I still think Mac needs to sort it's OS out to make itself a proper workhorse OS like Windows
Apple, not Mac. Apple is the company that makes Macs. Mac is just the name of a computer platform.
What makes it not a "proper" workhorse OS?
Quote:
Originally Posted by xxSampleXX
A phone is not a real computer. If you can't do Enterprise-level development with something, it may be really "neat", but it is not a legitimate computing device.
A computer is not a real computer. If it can't reproduce (a)sexually, it may be really "neat", but it is not a legitimate computing device.
Hey, look! I can make up definitions, too!
Quote:
Originally Posted by kkqd1337
Brilliant news.. Can't wait. I still think Mac needs to sort it's OS out to make itself a proper workhorse OS like Windows
Care to explain why Mac OS X isn't a 'proper workhorse OS like Windows'? Please be specific.
In reality, OS X is every bit as much a 'proper workhorse OS' as Windows. In fact, since it's a full-featured Unix, some people would argue that it's better. And for the few Windows-only apps you might require (the number is declining), you can always use Parallels or Fusion.
Oh, and btw, it's hard to take anyone who doesn't know the difference between 'Mac' and 'Apple' seriously - even if the rest of your post weren't so inane.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu
I'd say a lot of people care, as virtually all computers around the world run Windows.
Or didn't you know that?
This is quite a vast overstatement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Technarchy
I actually agree. Windows 8 is a bigger deal than some on here think for a few reasons.
I'm considering overhauling my current PC hardware and installing Windows 8, but for sure I am adding a new Apple desktop as well. Just waiting for the Sandy Bridge refresh with the biggest and baddest graphics you can get.
Basing my opinion on about as much fact as you do here ....
I am more and more getting the feeling that Windows 8 will not only be a flop, but a flop of Vista like proportions. The clients I see daily that are still using Windows will generally use whatever comes on the machine so sales-wise, Microsoft is safe as it always is. People will buy it because they have no choice. On the other hand, despite all the superficial changes, Windows has basically stayed the same in general layout for about 17 years now (since Windows 95 when they worked out their first basic GUI).
All Windows until now has used the Start Menu as a way to organise access to programs and devices. This time it's different.
It seems rather obvious that Microsoft will have to provide a way of putting that Start menu back, at least as a hack. If they don't, it's 100% certain that third parties will do so anyway. This means that most installations of Windows 8 (call centres, factories, offices, businesses, etc.), will Immediately remove the Metro "layer" and never think about it again.
If Microsoft sticks to it's guns though (and they will probably try to for at least 6 months), and doesn't put the Start menu back, huge amounts of Jane and Joe Average folks who go out to buy a new computer will be totally lost, and totally pissed off that the Start Menu is gone. There will be outrage, there will be calls for a fix, and almost overnight there will be many hacks to get rid of Metro. The biggest search trending on Google a week after Windows 8's release date, will be "How do I get the Start Menu back?"
The consumers will get shafted by MS as they always have been. The business customers that are MS's true customers will get a "fix" on the sly, and people will start talking about "how to fix Metro" (for Windows 9).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
If Microsoft sticks to it's guns though (and they will probably try to for at least 6 months), and doesn't put the Start menu back, huge amounts of Jane and Joe Average folks who go out to buy a new computer will be totally lost, and totally pissed off that the Start Menu is gone. There will be outrage, there will be calls for a fix, and almost overnight there will be many hacks to get rid of Metro. The biggest search trending on Google a week after Windows 8's release date, will be "How do I get the Start Menu back?"
I actually foresee zero problems showing up on the Internet and Windows 8 appearing a success.
… Because without the Start button, tons of people won't know how to get to their applications to get ON the Internet to complain about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mausz
http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-12-06/tech/30481049_1_android-apps-ios
1.25 billion Windows PCs running today. (That includes all versions of Windows.)
234 million Android phones and 13 million Android tablets (as per IDC), for a total of 247 million Android devices.
112 million iPhones and 40 million iPads, leading to 152 million iOS devices.
76%... no details about mac's (less than 10% I still think?)...
So no small percentage.
All percentages like this show is that a lot of people use one or more of the following rationale when deciding what computer to purchase:
1) Which one is cheapest? (i.e. I only think about the initial cost, not the long term maintenance and frustration/time waste costs)
2) Which one do I already know? (i.e. conservatism, not interested in trying new things)
3) Which one does everyone else I know use? (i.e. safety in numbers, groupthink)
They say nothing about quality.
Wow! I wonder why its taking Microsoft such a long time to add a bunch of colored rectangles and squares. Too much time spent playing solitaire!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maecvs
This new format takes some getting used to.....
As a bit of an aside, is anyone checking out the big ass Microsloth store opening in a couple days. The one right beside the Stanford Apple store?
They must be crazy to open next door.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoxMacCary
Vista ....
Windows 7 ....
Windows 8 ....
And, I understand, Windows 9 is just around the corner ....
Who. The. Heck. CARES .....
About 90% of people who buy computers will be affected.