Apple 'frustrated' as plans for new Austin, Tex., facility are 'in peril'

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 77
    hodar wrote: »
    <p> Now, throw in University of Texas at Austin, Austin Community College, St. Edwards, Concordia, Huston Tilotson, ITT Technical Institute, plus the colleges in the immediate area like Georgetown and Southwest Tecnical Institute - there is a plethora of talent coming out of these universities, plus established talent from the major companies in both software and hardware based companies.</p>

    Not that I'm a fan but I can't believe you left out Texas A&M! UT and A&M each have enrollments of over 50,000 students, making them some of the largest public universities in the country - fifth and sixth respectively. And A&M is just about 2 hours away, if you're from Texas that's like next door.
  • Reply 62 of 77
    nht wrote: »
    <p>  </p><div class="quote-container"> <span>Quote:</span> <div class="quote-block"> Originally Posted by <strong>Hodar</strong> <a href="/t/149669/apple-frustrated-as-plans-for-new-austin-tex-facility-are-in-peril#post_2101912"><img alt="View Post" class="inlineimg" src="/img/forum/go_quote.gif" /></a><br /> <br /> <p> Add to that the intrinsic benefits of Texas (no state income tax, pleasant weather, major cities of Houston, San Antonio and Dallas/Ft. Worth are only a couple hours drive away.  Hiking, biking, camping, fishing - all within the immediate area.</p> </div></div><p>  </p><p> Did you say pleasant weather?  Man, I worked in Houston for a while and it's an armpit in the summer and summer lasts forever.</p><p>  </p>

    I'll let you in on our secret - Houston is our sacrificial anode. It's where we hope people from outside Texas (read yankees) will settle down. The reason Houston has that climate is because it's located on a bayou (read swamp). There are really nice places in Texas, and there are really not nice ones too. There are places in west Texas...well, they're not Hell, but you can see Hell from there. Austin though is nice, Sixth Street, live music, Town Lake, Barton Creek. You can find something for everybody there.
  • Reply 63 of 77
    <p> As a huge Formula One fan, I find it ironically amusing that money was found for a rather extravagant, $250 million (+/-) world class race track near Austin, which will host a round of the F1 World Championship beginning this year. And if they're lucky, F1 will stick around for maybe five years. </p>

    Yeah, I agree that is strange.

    Now, a NASCAR track...
  • Reply 64 of 77
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 2,490member


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ezduzit View Post


    apple doesn't need my advice but none the less,  they should tell the


    money grubbing austin tx politicians that they can shove austin.


     


    that $300+ million would receive a warm welcome in more cities than can be


    counted.  they are in north carolina now.  what about south carolina.  they


    would be welcome with open arms.



     


    I'm no fan of either Texas politicians or government bureaucracy and inefficient decision making, but isn't it the other way around?  Isn't Apple the one doing the money grubbing?    Frankly, I think it should be illegal to offer any large business any financial incentives at all.   This way, all localities would be on an even playing field and companies would make the decisions to locate based on more appropriate reasons like access to qualified employees, land availability, access to shipping routes (if relevant), etc.   Why should taxpayers fund Apple's expansion?


     


    From past postings, I get the feeling (obviously anecdotal) that a majority of posters on here are political conservatives, yet when it comes to Apple, they have no problem with Governments "giving away the store" to acquire Apple business.  


     


     

  • Reply 65 of 77
    slang4artslang4art Posts: 376member


    Yes, except they aren't spending money. They are agreeing to skim less, knowing that the free market will work itself out.

  • Reply 66 of 77
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post


     


     


    I'm no fan of either Texas politicians or government bureaucracy and inefficient decision making, but isn't it the other way around?  Isn't Apple the one doing the money grubbing?    Frankly, I think it should be illegal to offer any large business any financial incentives at all.   This way, all localities would be on an even playing field and companies would make the decisions to locate based on more appropriate reasons like access to qualified employees, land availability, access to shipping routes (if relevant), etc.   Why should taxpayers fund Apple's expansion?


     


    From past postings, I get the feeling (obviously anecdotal) that a majority of posters on here are political conservatives, yet when it comes to Apple, they have no problem with Governments "giving away the store" to acquire Apple business.  


     


     



     


    That's really a bizarre interpretation.



    Fine. If you think it's money grubbing for Apple to bring a $300 M investment and 3600 jobs to a city and want to ensure that Austin is the best location for that facility, then no amount of rational discussion is going to change your mind.




    You're also wrong in your conclusion that taxpayers are funding Apple's expansion. The Austin taxpayers will be far better off if Apple does this deal than if they don't - even with the discounts being offered. So how are the taxpayers funding the deal when the taxpayers come out of it much better off?



    Fortunately, you're not responsible for business development for any cities.

  • Reply 67 of 77
    adonissmuadonissmu Posts: 1,772member


    Anti Business practices....WTF? They are arguing over how much money the state is going to spend to help Apple build the facility. That is not about anti business practices. This is about Apple wanting corporate welfare when they have 100 billion in the bank. They should be building their own facility with their own funds. Texas doesn't have the money to be giving Apple a handout. Texas is really the only other state besides the west coast and the cities on the northern half of east coast where there are plenty of engineers in the quantities that Apple would likely need/want. Apple is going to build their facility there regardless.


     


    I think Texas should do this deal even if it costs them a bit but they need to stop mismanaging this deal. 

  • Reply 68 of 77
    adonissmuadonissmu Posts: 1,772member


    I like texas and miss the wonderful weather. They don't have subways and infrastructure like NYC does and collect no taxes to support themselves. For all the succession talk down there, Texas is one of the largest if not the largest welfare state in the country. No thanks.

  • Reply 69 of 77
    adonissmuadonissmu Posts: 1,772member


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Hodar View Post


    You are missing a few rather key points that is rather attractive to Austin.  Austin is the Silicon Valley of the West.  Texas Instruments, Intel, Freescale, Samsung, Micron among others call Austin home.  This means, that new components are just a short car ride from Apple's labs.  Technical support from the chip designers is just a face-to-face meeting without the need for huge amounts of notice, no hotels, time changes, airline trips.  Literally, a 30 minute drive away.


     


    Now, throw in University of Texas at Austin, Austin Community College, St. Edwards, Concordia, Huston Tilotson, ITT Technical Institute, plus the colleges in the immediate area like Georgetown and Southwest Tecnical Institute - there is a plethora of talent coming out of these universities, plus established talent from the major companies in both software and hardware based companies.


     


    Add to that the intrinsic benefits of Texas (no state income tax, pleasant weather, major cities of Houston, San Antonio and Dallas/Ft. Worth are only a couple hours drive away.  Hiking, biking, camping, fishing - all within the immediate area.


     


    This makes Austin pretty attracive, despite some idiots in local goverment.



     


     


    Im sorry but most of those schools you listed are crappy schools. Apple is thinking Texas A&M, UT, San Antonio College, & UT Arlington maybe Rice, SMU, & TCU to get their talent. Maybe now is a good time for me to join Apple. Ive got the resume for it. image

  • Reply 70 of 77
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AdonisSMU View Post


    I like texas and miss the wonderful weather. They don't have subways and infrastructure like NYC does and collect no taxes to support themselves. For all the succession talk down there, Texas is one of the largest if not the largest welfare state in the country. No thanks.



     


    Texas doesn't collect taxes? I guess we can completely ignore your views since you obviously have no idea what you're talking about.


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AdonisSMU View Post


    Anti Business practices....WTF? They are arguing over how much money the state is going to spend to help Apple build the facility. That is not about anti business practices. This is about Apple wanting corporate welfare when they have 100 billion in the bank. They should be building their own facility with their own funds. Texas doesn't have the money to be giving Apple a handout. Texas is really the only other state besides the west coast and the cities on the northern half of east coast where there are plenty of engineers in the quantities that Apple would likely need/want. Apple is going to build their facility there regardless.


     


    I think Texas should do this deal even if it costs them a bit but they need to stop mismanaging this deal. 



     


    Apple is building the facility with their own funds. Once again, you have managed to show that you don't have any idea what you're talking about.




    The deal is that Apple will pay less taxes in the future if this deal is done, but the entire cost of installing the facility will come from Apple.



    And it's not corporate welfare. It's a negotiated deal between Apple and the city to find the best alternative. As you've been told repeatedly, Apple has an obligation to its shareholders and employees to use its money wisely. Suggesting that they should simply spend $20 M more than they need to is absurd.

  • Reply 71 of 77
    adonissmu wrote: »
    <p> I like texas and miss the wonderful weather. They don't have subways and infrastructure like NYC does and collect no taxes to support themselves. For all the succession talk down there, Texas is one of the largest if not the largest welfare state in the country. No thanks.</p>


    Regarding subways, you're right, but I thought highways and utilities still count as infrastructure. But wow, have I been screwing up! Every January I pay my personal and business property taxes, and every day I pay sales taxes on almost every retail purchase that I make. I didn't realize they weren't collecting these taxes. Wonder where my money had been going? As far as Texas being a welfare state, we only get back 94 cents in federal spending for every dollar in federal taxes collected here. I believe that means Texas is supporting some other welfare state.

    http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/sr139.pdf
  • Reply 72 of 77
    successsuccess Posts: 1,039member


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Granmastak View Post



    This is precisely why we can't bring jobs back to the US.

    With all the anti -business practices, and out of control spending, we will become the next Greece.


     


    will become?  lol

  • Reply 73 of 77
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by diplication View Post





    Regarding subways, you're right, but I thought highways and utilities still count as infrastructure. But wow, have I been screwing up! Every January I pay my personal and business property taxes, and every day I pay sales taxes on almost every retail purchase that I make. I didn't realize they weren't collecting these taxes. Wonder where my money had been going? As far as Texas being a welfare state, we only get back 94 cents in federal spending for every dollar in federal taxes collected here. I believe that means Texas is supporting some other welfare state.

    http://www.taxfoundation.org/files/sr139.pdf


     


    You might like this article in the NYT this morning. Looks like Apple doesn't like to pay taxes either.


     


    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/29/business/apples-tax-strategy-aims-at-low-tax-states-and-nations.html

  • Reply 74 of 77
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


     


     


    You might like this article in the NYT this morning. Looks like Apple doesn't like to pay taxes either.


     


    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/29/business/apples-tax-strategy-aims-at-low-tax-states-and-nations.html



     


    What part of "it's perfectly legal and Apple has an obligation to maximize the return for their investors" do you not understand?

  • Reply 75 of 77


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


     


     


    What part of "it's perfectly legal and Apple has an obligation to maximize the return for their investors" do you not understand?



     


    Exactly.  If I was an investor I would expect Apple to use every legal means available to avoid paying any tax they weren't  required to pay, just like every April 15 I take every legal allowable deduction that I am entitled to take.  What reasonable person would want to pay more for anything than they are required to pay? - "How much is that automobile? $20,000? Would you take $30,000 instead?"

  • Reply 76 of 77


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mstone View Post


     


     


    You might like this article in the NYT this morning. Looks like Apple doesn't like to pay taxes either.


     


    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/29/business/apples-tax-strategy-aims-at-low-tax-states-and-nations.htmlAm ;



    Am I missing something?  Who does like to pay taxes?  I don't like to pay taxes, I wish all the government services were free, but they're not, so I am required to pay taxes.  Liking to pay taxes is kind of like expecting someone to enjoy a colonoscopy - not enjoyable but necessary!  So to extend the analogy, I don't sign up for an extra rectal examination just for the fun of it!

  • Reply 77 of 77
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    jragosta wrote: »
    What part of "it's perfectly legal and Apple has an obligation to maximize the return for their investors" do you not understand?</p>

    What part of my comment lead to believe that I lack understanding?

    You know it takes a lot of work to be nasty and rude all the time but it takes absolutely no effort whatsoever to be nice.
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