I believe that, unless Congress acts to change things, Capital Gains tax rates go from the current 15% to 35+% this coming January. That's probably why we're seeing a lot of stock sales like Forstall's and it's not just in Apple. Sales like this are more like a hedge bet on Congress doing what it's been doing for a long time which is nothing, rather than being based on some insider knowledge of what might happen to Apple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvaldes1831
You are misinformed.
There are two capital gains tax rates: short-term (for investments held under a year) and long-term (over one year).
The short-term capital gains tax rates always match the tax rate for income in the same tax bracket. Thus, if you are in the 28% tax bracket for income, you will be paying 28% short-term capital gains taxes.
The current tax laws project an increase in the long-term capital gains tax rate from 15% to 20% (not 35+% as erroneously claimed above) for anyone above the 15% income tax bracket.
Be realistic: long-term capital gains tax rates will never exceed the income tax rate at that bracket. Otherwise, no one would want to invest for the long-term. The lack of long-term investment would likely destroy the world economy.
Moreover, the tax brackets themselves will change a bit:
Forstall is probably in the 35% marginal tax bracket. Which makes sense why he had to sell off almost half of the RSUs when they were issued in March. He owned 35% income tax to the IRS plus another 9-10% to California's Franchise Tax Board.
It's not that simple - there's more involved than capital gains.
The stock was a grant in 2008. At that time, the total value of the shares would have been counted as income - not capital gains. Capital gains would only be the increase in value since 2008.
There's more to the story one way or the other. Given that the grant was in 2008 and that he sold ALL of the shares to pay taxes, something else has happened to increase his tax liability. Either that or he previously sold half of the stock without paying the taxes.
Either way, it's really not important as far as Apple is concerned. He has plenty of incentive to stay regardless of whether he held this batch of stock or sold it.
Stop being so dense, people. If Forstall sold that many shares, then he sees something at Apple that he doesn’t like. He’s had several months of working with Tim Cook, and he realizes that he’s no Steve Jobs. Not to mention the horrible recent hirings of execs from United Airlines, Yahoo, and Dixons… 3 of the worst companies on the planet. The ship is sinking, and Forstall is jumping off while he can. I wouldn’t be surprised if Forstall leaves Apple fairly soon after this stock sale.
Stop being so dense, people. If Forstall sold that many shares, then he sees something at Apple that he doesn’t like. He’s had several months of working with Tim Cook, and he realizes that he’s no Steve Jobs. Not to mention the horrible recent hirings of execs from United Airlines, Yahoo, and Dixons… 3 of the worst companies on the planet. The ship is sinking, and Forstall is jumping off while he can. I wouldn’t be surprised if Forstall leaves Apple fairly soon after this stock sale.
I sort of hope so. While we DO need another Steve to take the reigns at Apple eventually, Forstall seems like the wrong one from what I've read.
If he can stay and not become CEO, that works, too.
I can't imagine why any Apple - or any other top level exec from any big corp would let money be a factor in where they go and what they do. Its silly money and the one thing it affords you is the option to make career or life choices without having to give a crap about the financial aspects. With 35 million dollar (less taxes) in the bank he can open up a bar and spend his day handing out free drinks if he so pleases. Is money a motivating factor for these guys?
He's selling now because he knows I'm coming after him for back taxes. You can run Scott, but you can't hide!
Generally, it is considered bad form to introduce politics into non-political sites. There are plenty of sites for that sort of thing. Why bring it here?
The fact is, he sold most of the vested shares, almost immediately after the open period.
If that doesn't mean he smells the (at least short term) top, I don't know what else can that mean.
You can say he's diversifying, or for tax reasons, but 95%? The 1st moment you can sell? That can't be good.
I'd say he was told that AAPL had hit a short term top, probably for this year... and if he was told that he'd have to sell this year for the best tax advantage then no better time than now.
Generally, it is considered bad form to introduce politics into non-political sites. There are plenty of sites for that sort of thing. Why bring it here?
I'm not sure how I feel about play-acting either, but he did it for satire's sake.
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit
I'd say he was told that AAPL had hit a short term top, probably for this year...
Stop being so dense, people. If Forstall sold that many shares, then he sees something at Apple that he doesn’t like. He’s had several months of working with Tim Cook, and he realizes that he’s no Steve Jobs. Not to mention the horrible recent hirings of execs from United Airlines, Yahoo, and Dixons… 3 of the worst companies on the planet. The ship is sinking, and Forstall is jumping off while he can. I wouldn’t be surprised if Forstall leaves Apple fairly soon after this stock sale.
If you say so. I guess that would make sense that he would make such a rash call after only a few months after years of working with the famously mercurial Steve Jobs. Could you never down your "soon" so we can have something to talk about if it doesn't happen.
They recently issued a lot of stock to Cook. It could also be that he is taking money off the table in the expectation of getting more stock at a new price.
Holiday quarter brought the price to $640. Why would you think that earnings over the next 2 quarters (plus this last quarter), that won't match the holiday quarter, will take the stock higher?
Why would you think that earnings over the next 2 quarters (plus this last quarter), that won't match the holiday quarter, will take the stock higher?
Why would you think earnings wouldn't match that? Their entire computer lineup is being updated in the next two months. iPhone and iPods in October. Hopefully even new AirPort models. People are waiting.
Considering the iPhone 5 release is likely to happenin the next 4 months or so; and that the predicted sales of these will be fairly huge - why sell now?
This doesn't include the anticipated sales of Apple's TV efforts, nor the Ivy Bridge refresh on their existing hardware - all of which should drive the stock price of Apple even higher.
Considering the iPhone 5 release is likely to happenin the next 4 months or so
Urgetokill… rising… Also, do you really think it would be sooner than October?
Quote:
This doesn't include the anticipated sales of Apple's TV efforts, nor the Ivy Bridge refresh on their existing hardware - all of which should drive the stock price of Apple even higher.
The latter, sure. *looks around absentmindedly* Oh, did you want me to acknowledge the former?
Why would you think earnings wouldn't match that? Their entire computer lineup is being updated in the next two months. iPhone and iPods in October. Hopefully even new AirPort models. People are waiting.
Let's see... in October Apple gave a future forecast of $37 billion for the "holiday" quarter and it hit $46.3 billion.
This last quarter Apple gave a future forecast of $34 billion for its 3rd fiscal quarter... and you translate that into $47 billion.
Bit of a stretch... even by Apple's conservative forecasting.
I can't imagine why any Apple - or any other top level exec from any big corp would let money be a factor in where they go and what they do. Its silly money and the one thing it affords you is the option to make career or life choices without having to give a crap about the financial aspects. With 35 million dollar (less taxes) in the bank he can open up a bar and spend his day handing out free drinks if he so pleases. Is money a motivating factor for these guys?
It certainly wasn't for Steve Jobs. He was raking in close to $40 million a year in Disney dividends. He could have just sat on the beach and read books.
Heck, Forstall could quit tomorrow, invest the $17 million remaining after taxes and live on the interest. He would still be raking in twice as much at 8% interest versus his current salary of $700K.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobinmurphy
I believe that, unless Congress acts to change things, Capital Gains tax rates go from the current 15% to 35+% this coming January. That's probably why we're seeing a lot of stock sales like Forstall's and it's not just in Apple. Sales like this are more like a hedge bet on Congress doing what it's been doing for a long time which is nothing, rather than being based on some insider knowledge of what might happen to Apple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvaldes1831
You are misinformed.
There are two capital gains tax rates: short-term (for investments held under a year) and long-term (over one year).
The short-term capital gains tax rates always match the tax rate for income in the same tax bracket. Thus, if you are in the 28% tax bracket for income, you will be paying 28% short-term capital gains taxes.
The current tax laws project an increase in the long-term capital gains tax rate from 15% to 20% (not 35+% as erroneously claimed above) for anyone above the 15% income tax bracket.
Be realistic: long-term capital gains tax rates will never exceed the income tax rate at that bracket. Otherwise, no one would want to invest for the long-term. The lack of long-term investment would likely destroy the world economy.
Moreover, the tax brackets themselves will change a bit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gains_tax_in_the_United_States
Forstall is probably in the 35% marginal tax bracket. Which makes sense why he had to sell off almost half of the RSUs when they were issued in March. He owned 35% income tax to the IRS plus another 9-10% to California's Franchise Tax Board.
It's not that simple - there's more involved than capital gains.
The stock was a grant in 2008. At that time, the total value of the shares would have been counted as income - not capital gains. Capital gains would only be the increase in value since 2008.
There's more to the story one way or the other. Given that the grant was in 2008 and that he sold ALL of the shares to pay taxes, something else has happened to increase his tax liability. Either that or he previously sold half of the stock without paying the taxes.
Either way, it's really not important as far as Apple is concerned. He has plenty of incentive to stay regardless of whether he held this batch of stock or sold it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty321
Stop being so dense, people. If Forstall sold that many shares, then he sees something at Apple that he doesn’t like. He’s had several months of working with Tim Cook, and he realizes that he’s no Steve Jobs. Not to mention the horrible recent hirings of execs from United Airlines, Yahoo, and Dixons… 3 of the worst companies on the planet. The ship is sinking, and Forstall is jumping off while he can. I wouldn’t be surprised if Forstall leaves Apple fairly soon after this stock sale.
Uh huh.
… I miss our emoticons.
The fact is, he sold most of the vested shares, almost immediately after the open period.
If that doesn't mean he smells the (at least short term) top, I don't know what else can that mean.
You can say he's diversifying, or for tax reasons, but 95%? The 1st moment you can sell? That can't be good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by virginblue4
As someone who doesn't know much about stock etc, this isn't a sign he may be leaving soon / thinking about leaving is it? I really hope not
I sort of hope so. While we DO need another Steve to take the reigns at Apple eventually, Forstall seems like the wrong one from what I've read.
If he can stay and not become CEO, that works, too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
I sort of hope so. While we DO need another Steve to take the reigns at Apple eventually, Forstall seems like the wrong one from what I've read.
If he can stay and not become CEO, that works, too.
I can't imagine why any Apple - or any other top level exec from any big corp would let money be a factor in where they go and what they do. Its silly money and the one thing it affords you is the option to make career or life choices without having to give a crap about the financial aspects. With 35 million dollar (less taxes) in the bank he can open up a bar and spend his day handing out free drinks if he so pleases. Is money a motivating factor for these guys?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obama
He's selling now because he knows I'm coming after him for back taxes. You can run Scott, but you can't hide!
Generally, it is considered bad form to introduce politics into non-political sites. There are plenty of sites for that sort of thing. Why bring it here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by drobforever
The fact is, he sold most of the vested shares, almost immediately after the open period.
If that doesn't mean he smells the (at least short term) top, I don't know what else can that mean.
You can say he's diversifying, or for tax reasons, but 95%? The 1st moment you can sell? That can't be good.
I'd say he was told that AAPL had hit a short term top, probably for this year... and if he was told that he'd have to sell this year for the best tax advantage then no better time than now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eternal Emperor
Generally, it is considered bad form to introduce politics into non-political sites. There are plenty of sites for that sort of thing. Why bring it here?
I'm not sure how I feel about play-acting either, but he did it for satire's sake.
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit
I'd say he was told that AAPL had hit a short term top, probably for this year...
Month, more like.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty321
Stop being so dense, people. If Forstall sold that many shares, then he sees something at Apple that he doesn’t like. He’s had several months of working with Tim Cook, and he realizes that he’s no Steve Jobs. Not to mention the horrible recent hirings of execs from United Airlines, Yahoo, and Dixons… 3 of the worst companies on the planet. The ship is sinking, and Forstall is jumping off while he can. I wouldn’t be surprised if Forstall leaves Apple fairly soon after this stock sale.
If you say so. I guess that would make sense that he would make such a rash call after only a few months after years of working with the famously mercurial Steve Jobs. Could you never down your "soon" so we can have something to talk about if it doesn't happen.
They recently issued a lot of stock to Cook. It could also be that he is taking money off the table in the expectation of getting more stock at a new price.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Month, more like.
Why would you think this will last just a month.
Holiday quarter brought the price to $640. Why would you think that earnings over the next 2 quarters (plus this last quarter), that won't match the holiday quarter, will take the stock higher?
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit
Why would you think that earnings over the next 2 quarters (plus this last quarter), that won't match the holiday quarter, will take the stock higher?
Why would you think earnings wouldn't match that? Their entire computer lineup is being updated in the next two months. iPhone and iPods in October. Hopefully even new AirPort models. People are waiting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Uh huh.
… I miss our emoticons.
Yeah, what's up with that!? <<grumble>>
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Uh huh.
… I miss our emoticons.
There isn't one which suits something so stupendously dumb.
Considering the iPhone 5 release is likely to happenin the next 4 months or so; and that the predicted sales of these will be fairly huge - why sell now?
This doesn't include the anticipated sales of Apple's TV efforts, nor the Ivy Bridge refresh on their existing hardware - all of which should drive the stock price of Apple even higher.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodar
Considering the iPhone 5 release is likely to happenin the next 4 months or so
Urge to kill… rising… Also, do you really think it would be sooner than October?
Quote:
This doesn't include the anticipated sales of Apple's TV efforts, nor the Ivy Bridge refresh on their existing hardware - all of which should drive the stock price of Apple even higher.
The latter, sure. *looks around absentmindedly* Oh, did you want me to acknowledge the former?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Why would you think earnings wouldn't match that? Their entire computer lineup is being updated in the next two months. iPhone and iPods in October. Hopefully even new AirPort models. People are waiting.
Let's see... in October Apple gave a future forecast of $37 billion for the "holiday" quarter and it hit $46.3 billion.
This last quarter Apple gave a future forecast of $34 billion for its 3rd fiscal quarter... and you translate that into $47 billion.
Bit of a stretch... even by Apple's conservative forecasting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Quote:
Originally Posted by I am a Zither Zather Zuzz
Normally you shouldn't read too much in to a stock sale. Maybe he wants to buy something?
But this is different,
Yes, it's different. He has to pay taxes.
But that won't stop zzz from trying to use it to cast Apple in a bad light.
I find it extraordinary that he is selling 95%. How common is that? Does a comany's stock generally go up when an officer sells 95%
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman
I can't imagine why any Apple - or any other top level exec from any big corp would let money be a factor in where they go and what they do. Its silly money and the one thing it affords you is the option to make career or life choices without having to give a crap about the financial aspects. With 35 million dollar (less taxes) in the bank he can open up a bar and spend his day handing out free drinks if he so pleases. Is money a motivating factor for these guys?
It certainly wasn't for Steve Jobs. He was raking in close to $40 million a year in Disney dividends. He could have just sat on the beach and read books.
Heck, Forstall could quit tomorrow, invest the $17 million remaining after taxes and live on the interest. He would still be raking in twice as much at 8% interest versus his current salary of $700K.