Google gets caught with their hand in the cookie jar, and their only comment is: "but they're really good cookies. I should get to eat them if I want to". Lame.
Ha! I see what you did there. Cookie jar, cookies....... Okay, I'm going home now.
Gatorguy ... "FWIW there were members here who found that Apple themselves were bypassing user's settings, placing cookies when the users visited Apple company sites even tho Safari was set to prohibit them. Perhaps that's why Apple hasn't yet closed the hole that allowed it to happen?"
I don't believe this.
Some guy on a forum making an anti-Apple statement is not the same as actual evidence.
In fact that kind of behaviour is pretty much de rigeur around here.
I remembered this one from not that long ago. Whether you want to believe it or not, the member (lfmorrison) claims it's true in this thread. See post 260-265
Google gets caught with their hand in the cookie jar, and their only comment is: "but they're really good cookies. I should get to eat them if I want to". Lame.
And that strategy is actually working out pretty well for them. "Tens of millions" probably doesn't even cover what they made by tracking during the period they were doing it. Same goes for the Google Music service. Can't come to an agreement with the record labels? No problem just go ahead and put up the tunes. Eavesdrop on people's WiFi? Sure why not. We'll figure it out in court later. It'll only be a slap on the wrist anyway.
Gatorguy ... "FWIW there were members here who found that Apple themselves were bypassing user's settings, placing cookies when the users visited Apple company sites even tho Safari was set to prohibit them. Perhaps that's why Apple hasn't yet closed the hole that allowed it to happen?"
I don't believe this.
Some guy on a forum making an anti-Apple statement is not the same as actual evidence.
In fact that kind of behaviour is pretty much de rigeur around here.
I don't know what was going on, and I make no accusations. BUT - under Snow Leopard 10.6.8 and Safari 5, when I cleared all cookies and disabled them, the next time I checked there would be cookies set from Google and Apple (and others, including third-party cookies from DoubleClick and others - remember that we later found out that Google was actually instructing advertisers on how to get through the block). The Google cookies would appear instantaneously, while I would seem to get Apple cookies only after visiting Apple's website. This was so constant that I sent feedback to Apple at least 3 times, telling them that Safari under 10.6.8 was failing to block cookies. After every security update I would send them feedback again, until it finally stopped.
I don't know if this is all from the same issue, or if Snow Leopard 10.6.8 actually had a problem in blocking cookies. I make no accusations on Apple's side (I do accuse Google), but that's what was happening on my computer. It could have been inadvertant by Apple, as they don't stand to profit from cookies like Google does, and they're not a gateway to third-party advertisers.
Elroth, Apple is also sharing supposed anonymized data with their advertisers (iAd) including demographics, location, iTunes data, and perhaps UDID. They have a vested interest in placing cookies too and they'd love to replace Google on Apple devices. If they can't offer as good user data/feedback as Google does there's no way they're getting a premium for iAds. Cookie placement, disregarding the user's preferences, may not be just an accident.
Elroth, Apple is also sharing supposed anonymized data with their advertisers (iAd) including demographics, location, iTunes data, and perhaps UDID. They have a vested interest in placing cookies too and they'd love to replace Google on Apple devices. If they can't offer as good user data/feedback as Google does there's no way they're getting a premium for iAds. Cookie placement, disregarding the user's preferences, may not be just an accident.
You have to opt-in for iAds to be sent to you, don't you? (at least by using the free applications that contain iAds). I don't believe Apple is violating these issues on purpose, but loopholes pop up, as when that developer was caught collecting users' address book info. That was a violation of Apple's terms, but the loophole was there. Every time a loophole opens and is exposed, Apple works to close it. There's no evidence Apple is using cookies nefariously, like Google does.
[And my best memory is that when I went back to Snow Leopard 10.6.7 and Safari 5.0.5, it did block cookies correctly. I think there was a problem with 10.6.8, in addition to Google's shenanigans].
You have to opt-in for iAds to be sent to you, don't you?
No, you have to visit a completely separate Apple webpage to opt-out of iAd and it's related user-tracking. Apple has a support page here that tells you how and what it means, along with a link to the oddly named page. (Note those are o's and not zero's). It's clear that Apple didn't want it to be part of the standard user account settings so that the iAd program wasn't so easily noticed and refused.
"The US Federal Trade Commission is reportedly negotiating with Google over the size of a fine that will be imposed"
30 posts and no one finds this statement bizarre?
So how does this conversation go.
FTC says, "Google we are going to fine you 100 million dollars."
Google says, "We really think that is too much"
FTC says, "Well what do you think is fair"?
Google says, "Well I have $87 in my wallet"
FTC says, "Ok close enough"
FTC says, "One more thing, Let this be a lesson and don't let us catch you again.
Maybe if I get a parking ticket I can negotiate with the judge how much my fine will be. Once again corporate america and the government screw the American public.
A $100 MILLION fine would be a fair starting point to punish Google for violating Apple user's privacy - and for committing fraud. After all, the Google fraudulently made it seem as if the user initiated entry to a form in order to bypass Safari's privacy settings.
A $700 MILLION fine would be a fair fine. This wouldn't be a slap on the wrist.
I guess Google felt it needs to resort to underhanded tactics to break beyond their current market cap. Surely corporate reputation means nothing nowadays.
Gatorguy, I tried my best, but I was not able to simply not come to the conclusion, to have nothing anymore to do with Google, as far as possible. Even Android, I'll hopefully enlist the help of my colleague to do the testing of websites on Android platforms.
I have to say, without reservation, Google is now dead to me.
Appreciate your efforts though, I hope it won't be in vain and also that one day, maybe, Google will clean up its act.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
Elroth, Apple is also sharing supposed anonymized data with their advertisers (iAd) including demographics, location, iTunes data, and perhaps UDID. They have a vested interest in placing cookies too and they'd love to replace Google on Apple devices. If they can't offer as good user data/feedback as Google does there's no way they're getting a premium for iAds. Cookie placement, disregarding the user's preferences, may not be just an accident.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon
Google gets caught with their hand in the cookie jar, and their only comment is: "but they're really good cookies. I should get to eat them if I want to". Lame.
Ha! I see what you did there. Cookie jar, cookies....... Okay, I'm going home now.
US FTC worried about Google's privacy with what must be negotiation speak.
"Google, is ten million too much? Will you accept that? And, we promise to protect your privacy. Is that OK?"
Well, gosh darn. The heavy hand of this government agency protecting the consumer is a marvel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
Gatorguy ... "FWIW there were members here who found that Apple themselves were bypassing user's settings, placing cookies when the users visited Apple company sites even tho Safari was set to prohibit them. Perhaps that's why Apple hasn't yet closed the hole that allowed it to happen?"
I don't believe this.
Some guy on a forum making an anti-Apple statement is not the same as actual evidence.
In fact that kind of behaviour is pretty much de rigeur around here.
I remembered this one from not that long ago. Whether you want to believe it or not, the member (lfmorrison) claims it's true in this thread. See post 260-265
http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/147855/google-facebook-working-to-undermine-do-not-track-privacy-protections/240#post_2088592
I don't see anything in his posting history to indicate he's anything other than a happy Apple owner.
And that strategy is actually working out pretty well for them. "Tens of millions" probably doesn't even cover what they made by tracking during the period they were doing it. Same goes for the Google Music service. Can't come to an agreement with the record labels? No problem just go ahead and put up the tunes. Eavesdrop on people's WiFi? Sure why not. We'll figure it out in court later. It'll only be a slap on the wrist anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
Gatorguy ... "FWIW there were members here who found that Apple themselves were bypassing user's settings, placing cookies when the users visited Apple company sites even tho Safari was set to prohibit them. Perhaps that's why Apple hasn't yet closed the hole that allowed it to happen?"
I don't believe this.
Some guy on a forum making an anti-Apple statement is not the same as actual evidence.
In fact that kind of behaviour is pretty much de rigeur around here.
I don't know what was going on, and I make no accusations. BUT - under Snow Leopard 10.6.8 and Safari 5, when I cleared all cookies and disabled them, the next time I checked there would be cookies set from Google and Apple (and others, including third-party cookies from DoubleClick and others - remember that we later found out that Google was actually instructing advertisers on how to get through the block). The Google cookies would appear instantaneously, while I would seem to get Apple cookies only after visiting Apple's website. This was so constant that I sent feedback to Apple at least 3 times, telling them that Safari under 10.6.8 was failing to block cookies. After every security update I would send them feedback again, until it finally stopped.
I don't know if this is all from the same issue, or if Snow Leopard 10.6.8 actually had a problem in blocking cookies. I make no accusations on Apple's side (I do accuse Google), but that's what was happening on my computer. It could have been inadvertant by Apple, as they don't stand to profit from cookies like Google does, and they're not a gateway to third-party advertisers.
Elroth, Apple is also sharing supposed anonymized data with their advertisers (iAd) including demographics, location, iTunes data, and perhaps UDID. They have a vested interest in placing cookies too and they'd love to replace Google on Apple devices. If they can't offer as good user data/feedback as Google does there's no way they're getting a premium for iAds. Cookie placement, disregarding the user's preferences, may not be just an accident.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
Elroth, Apple is also sharing supposed anonymized data with their advertisers (iAd) including demographics, location, iTunes data, and perhaps UDID. They have a vested interest in placing cookies too and they'd love to replace Google on Apple devices. If they can't offer as good user data/feedback as Google does there's no way they're getting a premium for iAds. Cookie placement, disregarding the user's preferences, may not be just an accident.
You have to opt-in for iAds to be sent to you, don't you? (at least by using the free applications that contain iAds). I don't believe Apple is violating these issues on purpose, but loopholes pop up, as when that developer was caught collecting users' address book info. That was a violation of Apple's terms, but the loophole was there. Every time a loophole opens and is exposed, Apple works to close it. There's no evidence Apple is using cookies nefariously, like Google does.
[And my best memory is that when I went back to Snow Leopard 10.6.7 and Safari 5.0.5, it did block cookies correctly. I think there was a problem with 10.6.8, in addition to Google's shenanigans].
Quote:
Originally Posted by elroth
You have to opt-in for iAds to be sent to you, don't you?
No, you have to visit a completely separate Apple webpage to opt-out of iAd and it's related user-tracking. Apple has a support page here that tells you how and what it means, along with a link to the oddly named page. (Note those are o's and not zero's). It's clear that Apple didn't want it to be part of the standard user account settings so that the iAd program wasn't so easily noticed and refused.
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4228
Fixed:
"FYI FWIW FCC is actually FTC. FTW!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by hittrj01
Who exactly is Brian? Did you mean Sergey Brin?
Look at him, the smug bastard.
Lash him!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
"The US Federal Trade Commission is reportedly negotiating with Google over the size of a fine that will be imposed"
30 posts and no one finds this statement bizarre?
So how does this conversation go.
FTC says, "Google we are going to fine you 100 million dollars."
Google says, "We really think that is too much"
FTC says, "Well what do you think is fair"?
Google says, "Well I have $87 in my wallet"
FTC says, "Ok close enough"
FTC says, "One more thing, Let this be a lesson and don't let us catch you again.
Maybe if I get a parking ticket I can negotiate with the judge how much my fine will be. Once again corporate america and the government screw the American public.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsonice
As far as fines are concerned - Larry and Brian and Eric should be given 50 lashes for this.
Per user.....
A $100 MILLION fine would be a fair starting point to punish Google for violating Apple user's privacy - and for committing fraud. After all, the Google fraudulently made it seem as if the user initiated entry to a form in order to bypass Safari's privacy settings.
A $700 MILLION fine would be a fair fine. This wouldn't be a slap on the wrist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
The talks between the government and Google are being kept confidential, apparently in a bid to protect the privacy of the search giant.
What about our privacy screw googles privacy they have been exploiting ours for years.
I guess Google felt it needs to resort to underhanded tactics to break beyond their current market cap. Surely corporate reputation means nothing nowadays.
Act now, remove Google from your life. Here's how I did it to remove almost all Google from my life:
Email: iCloud, anything but Gmail
Browser: Firefox
Search: DuckDuckGo
Analytics: Piwik
Mapping: Open Street Maps, Stamen tiledisplay, Openstreetmaps.de tiledisplay
Geocoding: Yahoo PlaceFinder
I'm sure there's more.
It's possible people.
Live Google free.
Gatorguy, I tried my best, but I was not able to simply not come to the conclusion, to have nothing anymore to do with Google, as far as possible. Even Android, I'll hopefully enlist the help of my colleague to do the testing of websites on Android platforms.
I have to say, without reservation, Google is now dead to me.
Appreciate your efforts though, I hope it won't be in vain and also that one day, maybe, Google will clean up its act.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
Elroth, Apple is also sharing supposed anonymized data with their advertisers (iAd) including demographics, location, iTunes data, and perhaps UDID. They have a vested interest in placing cookies too and they'd love to replace Google on Apple devices. If they can't offer as good user data/feedback as Google does there's no way they're getting a premium for iAds. Cookie placement, disregarding the user's preferences, may not be just an accident.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008
Act now, remove Google from your life.
It's possible people.
Live Google free.
Well, ALMOST possible.
You'll also want some extensions to supplement that: AdBlock, Ghostery, GoogleClickTracker, and Google Disconnect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Well, ALMOST possible.
You'll also want some extensions to supplement that: AdBlock, Ghostery, GoogleClickTracker, and Google Disconnect.
Thanks for the tips. Got AdBlock a year ago, can't live without it. As for the rest, yeah, good tips.