Attacking companies that alone or in collusion can buy up whole sections of government does make sense, and of course as we all know apple is above colluding with anyone right? Sadly in a lot of these cases the people's hands are tied, worldwide and certainly not just in apple's case as I made abundantly clear from the get go.
Point 1, rubbish, if itunes want to sell to my country the better get taxed directly according to the same country rules I am getting taxed by and everyone is getting taxed by, point 2 is bs all markets within the EU are well functioning enough to have itunes operating from them and trade an e-service cross borders, point 3 is rubbish as well, this just gives apple a wider margin, it's not benefiting me, I 'd benefit from having them pay my government the same VAT every business working within my nation state has to pay.
Luxembourg might be having the time of their life in their mini tax haven over there, but when the whole of Europe is going from one recession to another with basic public sector services being cut one after the other and unemployment rates hitting 20% they have some nerve claiming they should get away with offering the lowest VAT rates to apple because they don't have any population or government expenses to support via VAT taxation to begin with. European leaders should get their act together and stop this insanity from taking place. And it's certainly not just about apple. European e-service offering businesses cannot pick and chose where they get taxed in Europe and play one against the other. It's as simple as that. If apple or any other business think it's not a viable business proposition for them to offer a service with the current VAT taxation of said country they should simply not be offering it.
All in all the most rubbish reply I 've heard in a long time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Steinberg
Another non story about this stupid tax stuff....Lets get over it and move on to when the new Iphone is coming out.
Speak for yourself, and make a minimum effort to inform yourself about world politics once in a while, it will make you sound a bit less insultingly ignorant.
Buy from Amazon or whoever you want, buy books in local bookstores, buy CD's and rip them the only thing left is Apps so focus on the free ones.
Vote for your country to leave the EU.
That solves most of your "issues".
Luxemburg have been doing what they are doing for hundreds of years.
This is not a non-story, this is a huge issue. As a European consumer (I live in Germany) one has to pay VAT/Sales Tax. This is almost 20% of the purchase price! Instead of this money staying in the country where I live AND make the purchase, and being used for local means, it simply goes to Luxembourg. Moreover since Apple avoids paying corporate taxes in Germany, more money is siphoned off instead of staying here locally and being put to good use. After reading the NYTimes article I am boycotting Apple and eBay and other companies who willingly take advantage of this absurd European Tax Laws. Think of it this way: it is as if a consumer in New York has to pay MORE for an iTunes purchase, so that somebody in Rhode Island has a few more pennies in their pocket, meanwhile Apple POCKETS the money that you as a consumer are paying in additional taxes. I say to Apple, DON'T BE EVIL.
Ask your evil judges to stop scaring off big business with their laughing stock patent troll courts.
Watch foreign companies close their German operations as the risk of litigation increases.
to myapplelove: Although I agree in a part with your analysis of current financial problems, your understanding of VAT is a bit backwards. It's always the customer who pays VAT, Apple sets the price and the country where the sale is registered adds the VAT. The VAT difference between the 15% and 21 for example (Belgium) does not stay in apple's pockets. It stays in mine!
I agree that there is a moral problem with paying VAT in an other country than your own. Apple itself, only recently changed their policies concerning cross national sells in their online apple store (hardware). It used to be possible to buy a mac in France with a Belgian billing address. This is not possible anymore. If I go to amazon.fr or amazon.co.uk I still can order an item and pay the VAT in France or UK.
Concluding, the free transfer of goods is a very good thing in Europe, I hate the border control when I travel to let's say Switzerland and has been very good for businesses across all borders. However the European government should revise the legislation regarding to internet sales. However paying the VAT in your country of residence will mean no more 0.99 or 1.29 euro songs across European markets and will probably mean prices will go up for most consumers.
I think a cross national VAT for internet purchases in Europe would be the only good solution, paid in country of residence.
Cheers,
Mz
I m sorry MZ but as I pointed out several times here the customer pays the VAT, but this VAT goes towards his nation state and not Luxembourg. You don't prosper if you get an extra 6% off a purchase but your government takes nil in the tons of transactions that take place in itunes. If you want better infrastructure, schools, hospitals, government, public services, etc. etc. etc. someone has to pay for them. Would you rather have Luxembourg get 15% by virtue of them having close to zip to support in terms of their government instead of your state getting 21%. The extra 6% btw isn't really going to your pocket, because apple is competing with others that sell from your country too and get taxed there when you pay at 21%. If apple were to compete in your country they 'd have to eat up that 6% themselves and reduce the price to match local competition. I would like to see them trying to raise the price from .99 and 1.29 btw if they could and not eat up the 6% in favour of the customer, and see how much they would get. Apple is looking for a wider margin here and dodging tax, and they 've found a loophole to do it based on the fact that the laws in the EU are not what they should be and e-services don't have transfer fees. If they could sell at 10% vat they would, and guess what they'd still sell at .99 and 1.29.
I am all for free "transfer" of goods across the EU goes without saying, but nothing is really transferred physically here, and nothing has to be produced somewhere to be transferred elsewhere. Apple hasn't set up a factory in Luxemburg and are shipping out of it. They 've cloned their us servers pretty much and are getting updated across the Atlantic to push products across Europe and no local government is getting anything in return except for Luxembourg, which btw has some ball defending themselves and saying they are offering an environment for cross border ebusiness yada yada yada, they are offering shit other than the fact that because they hardly have anyone or any state to sustain they can lower vat to ridiculously law by european standards levels. And then people say how come young people's unemployment rates are nearing 20% everywhere...well makes sense someone is hardly offering any jobs and are also not paying any vat (via the customer) to the respective member states to who they sell tons of content daily.
Buy from Amazon or whoever you want, buy books in local bookstores, buy CD's and rip them the only thing left is Apps so focus on the free ones.
Vote for your country to leave the EU.
That solves most of your "issues".
Luxemburg have been doing what they are doing for hundreds of years.
Oh we have a tough one here, let me tell you something wise guy, I guess you hadn't noticed you are not here to tell anyone what to do, and in that tone, but I guess you are very macho tucked away behind the keyboard right. But come to Europe, especially now where there's a recession across Europe we just love smart guys like you telling us what to do. You 'll have the time of your life rest assured, there are some very picturesque rivers crossing europe and it's also surrounded with water and both of them go pretty deep.
to myapplelove: Although I agree in a part with your analysis of current financial problems, your understanding of VAT is a bit backwards. It's always the customer who pays VAT, Apple sets the price and the country where the sale is registered adds the VAT. The VAT difference between the 15% and 21 for example (Belgium) does not stay in apple's pockets. It stays in mine!
I agree that there is a moral problem with paying VAT in an other country than your own. Apple itself, only recently changed their policies concerning cross national sells in their online apple store (hardware). It used to be possible to buy a mac in France with a Belgian billing address. This is not possible anymore. If I go to amazon.fr or amazon.co.uk I still can order an item and pay the VAT in France or UK.
Concluding, the free transfer of goods is a very good thing in Europe, I hate the border control when I travel to let's say Switzerland and has been very good for businesses across all borders. However the European government should revise the legislation regarding to internet sales. However paying the VAT in your country of residence will mean no more 0.99 or 1.29 euro songs across European markets and will probably mean prices will go up for most consumers.
I think a cross national VAT for internet purchases in Europe would be the only good solution, paid in country of residence.
Cheers,
Mz
That has been mentioned before. It's actually the kind of thing that would help brick and mortar stores as well. In the US, many states have use tax on out of state purchases, but I wonder what percentage of that is actually paid. To clarify, it gives internet companies an unfair advantage over local businesses. There are some with both a web and brick and mortar presence, but it does make it difficult to stay competitive. Internet companies have always leveraged lower overhead, so having the lack of sales tax issue to leverage as well can become problematic for brick and mortar as they don't wish to simply become Amazon's showroom.
As far as I'm concerned, the NYT can go F#!K themselves. Apple is not doing anything illegal, and they are taking advantage of all tax-savings techniques that our good-old U.S. of A. government has approved of.
You want to point the finger at someone? Point it directly at the government(s). Whether it's a multi-billion dollar corporation or the humble Joe-Taxpayer, we will all do what we can to legally pay only what we're required to pay, and not a penny more.
Can't someone throw a brick and the jackoffs at NYT? It's obvious they have an anti-Apple agenda.
I would put a tax... on all people... who stand... in water. Whaaa!
Comments
Attacking companies that alone or in collusion can buy up whole sections of government does make sense, and of course as we all know apple is above colluding with anyone right? Sadly in a lot of these cases the people's hands are tied, worldwide and certainly not just in apple's case as I made abundantly clear from the get go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove
Point 1, rubbish, if itunes want to sell to my country the better get taxed directly according to the same country rules I am getting taxed by and everyone is getting taxed by, point 2 is bs all markets within the EU are well functioning enough to have itunes operating from them and trade an e-service cross borders, point 3 is rubbish as well, this just gives apple a wider margin, it's not benefiting me, I 'd benefit from having them pay my government the same VAT every business working within my nation state has to pay.
Luxembourg might be having the time of their life in their mini tax haven over there, but when the whole of Europe is going from one recession to another with basic public sector services being cut one after the other and unemployment rates hitting 20% they have some nerve claiming they should get away with offering the lowest VAT rates to apple because they don't have any population or government expenses to support via VAT taxation to begin with. European leaders should get their act together and stop this insanity from taking place. And it's certainly not just about apple. European e-service offering businesses cannot pick and chose where they get taxed in Europe and play one against the other. It's as simple as that. If apple or any other business think it's not a viable business proposition for them to offer a service with the current VAT taxation of said country they should simply not be offering it.
All in all the most rubbish reply I 've heard in a long time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Steinberg
Another non story about this stupid tax stuff....Lets get over it and move on to when the new Iphone is coming out.
Speak for yourself, and make a minimum effort to inform yourself about world politics once in a while, it will make you sound a bit less insultingly ignorant.
Buy from Amazon or whoever you want, buy books in local bookstores, buy CD's and rip them the only thing left is Apps so focus on the free ones.
Vote for your country to leave the EU.
That solves most of your "issues".
Luxemburg have been doing what they are doing for hundreds of years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartmann
This is not a non-story, this is a huge issue. As a European consumer (I live in Germany) one has to pay VAT/Sales Tax. This is almost 20% of the purchase price! Instead of this money staying in the country where I live AND make the purchase, and being used for local means, it simply goes to Luxembourg. Moreover since Apple avoids paying corporate taxes in Germany, more money is siphoned off instead of staying here locally and being put to good use. After reading the NYTimes article I am boycotting Apple and eBay and other companies who willingly take advantage of this absurd European Tax Laws. Think of it this way: it is as if a consumer in New York has to pay MORE for an iTunes purchase, so that somebody in Rhode Island has a few more pennies in their pocket, meanwhile Apple POCKETS the money that you as a consumer are paying in additional taxes. I say to Apple, DON'T BE EVIL.
Ask your evil judges to stop scaring off big business with their laughing stock patent troll courts.
Watch foreign companies close their German operations as the risk of litigation increases.
Quote:
Originally Posted by a-maze
Have to reply:
to myapplelove: Although I agree in a part with your analysis of current financial problems, your understanding of VAT is a bit backwards. It's always the customer who pays VAT, Apple sets the price and the country where the sale is registered adds the VAT. The VAT difference between the 15% and 21 for example (Belgium) does not stay in apple's pockets. It stays in mine!
I agree that there is a moral problem with paying VAT in an other country than your own. Apple itself, only recently changed their policies concerning cross national sells in their online apple store (hardware). It used to be possible to buy a mac in France with a Belgian billing address. This is not possible anymore. If I go to amazon.fr or amazon.co.uk I still can order an item and pay the VAT in France or UK.
Concluding, the free transfer of goods is a very good thing in Europe, I hate the border control when I travel to let's say Switzerland and has been very good for businesses across all borders. However the European government should revise the legislation regarding to internet sales. However paying the VAT in your country of residence will mean no more 0.99 or 1.29 euro songs across European markets and will probably mean prices will go up for most consumers.
I think a cross national VAT for internet purchases in Europe would be the only good solution, paid in country of residence.
Cheers,
Mz
I m sorry MZ but as I pointed out several times here the customer pays the VAT, but this VAT goes towards his nation state and not Luxembourg. You don't prosper if you get an extra 6% off a purchase but your government takes nil in the tons of transactions that take place in itunes. If you want better infrastructure, schools, hospitals, government, public services, etc. etc. etc. someone has to pay for them. Would you rather have Luxembourg get 15% by virtue of them having close to zip to support in terms of their government instead of your state getting 21%. The extra 6% btw isn't really going to your pocket, because apple is competing with others that sell from your country too and get taxed there when you pay at 21%. If apple were to compete in your country they 'd have to eat up that 6% themselves and reduce the price to match local competition. I would like to see them trying to raise the price from .99 and 1.29 btw if they could and not eat up the 6% in favour of the customer, and see how much they would get. Apple is looking for a wider margin here and dodging tax, and they 've found a loophole to do it based on the fact that the laws in the EU are not what they should be and e-services don't have transfer fees. If they could sell at 10% vat they would, and guess what they'd still sell at .99 and 1.29.
I am all for free "transfer" of goods across the EU goes without saying, but nothing is really transferred physically here, and nothing has to be produced somewhere to be transferred elsewhere. Apple hasn't set up a factory in Luxemburg and are shipping out of it. They 've cloned their us servers pretty much and are getting updated across the Atlantic to push products across Europe and no local government is getting anything in return except for Luxembourg, which btw has some ball defending themselves and saying they are offering an environment for cross border ebusiness yada yada yada, they are offering shit other than the fact that because they hardly have anyone or any state to sustain they can lower vat to ridiculously law by european standards levels. And then people say how come young people's unemployment rates are nearing 20% everywhere...well makes sense someone is hardly offering any jobs and are also not paying any vat (via the customer) to the respective member states to who they sell tons of content daily.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60
Buy from Amazon or whoever you want, buy books in local bookstores, buy CD's and rip them the only thing left is Apps so focus on the free ones.
Vote for your country to leave the EU.
That solves most of your "issues".
Luxemburg have been doing what they are doing for hundreds of years.
Oh we have a tough one here, let me tell you something wise guy, I guess you hadn't noticed you are not here to tell anyone what to do, and in that tone, but I guess you are very macho tucked away behind the keyboard right. But come to Europe, especially now where there's a recession across Europe we just love smart guys like you telling us what to do. You 'll have the time of your life rest assured, there are some very picturesque rivers crossing europe and it's also surrounded with water and both of them go pretty deep.
Quote:
Originally Posted by a-maze
Have to reply:
to myapplelove: Although I agree in a part with your analysis of current financial problems, your understanding of VAT is a bit backwards. It's always the customer who pays VAT, Apple sets the price and the country where the sale is registered adds the VAT. The VAT difference between the 15% and 21 for example (Belgium) does not stay in apple's pockets. It stays in mine!
I agree that there is a moral problem with paying VAT in an other country than your own. Apple itself, only recently changed their policies concerning cross national sells in their online apple store (hardware). It used to be possible to buy a mac in France with a Belgian billing address. This is not possible anymore. If I go to amazon.fr or amazon.co.uk I still can order an item and pay the VAT in France or UK.
Concluding, the free transfer of goods is a very good thing in Europe, I hate the border control when I travel to let's say Switzerland and has been very good for businesses across all borders. However the European government should revise the legislation regarding to internet sales. However paying the VAT in your country of residence will mean no more 0.99 or 1.29 euro songs across European markets and will probably mean prices will go up for most consumers.
I think a cross national VAT for internet purchases in Europe would be the only good solution, paid in country of residence.
Cheers,
Mz
That has been mentioned before. It's actually the kind of thing that would help brick and mortar stores as well. In the US, many states have use tax on out of state purchases, but I wonder what percentage of that is actually paid. To clarify, it gives internet companies an unfair advantage over local businesses. There are some with both a web and brick and mortar presence, but it does make it difficult to stay competitive. Internet companies have always leveraged lower overhead, so having the lack of sales tax issue to leverage as well can become problematic for brick and mortar as they don't wish to simply become Amazon's showroom.
I would put a tax... on all people... who stand... in water. Whaaa!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gumbys