Sorry, but I don't want my only option to be a 4G/Wi-Fi iPad. I'd never pay AT&T their high fee just to check an email, post a pic or play a game. I'd much rather wait until I can do it over my already expensive Wi-Fi network at home or some other place where I don't pay. Besides, that black rubber bar on the 4G iPad is not attractive.
Perhaps nobody told you, but you're supposed to look at the FRONT of the iPad.
The electronics business worries about components that add 5 cents to costs. Getting them to include a $30-70 part is laughable.
What people hate is that the carriers treat each bucket of data separately. Your tablet can't share your phone's data cap unless you pay extra to enable tethering. Your phone most certainly can't use a commitment free tablet data plan. It's all the same data, but the carriers insist on being paid twice for it. Recently I've seen shared data plans, but they're always tied to a phone contract and always cost more than non-shared data.
The reason WiFi-only devices sell so well is that people have realized they don't need cellular data. We already have free WiFi in a lot of public places and paid WiFi in many more. If a big player like Apple or Google decided to blanket large urban areas with WiFi the cell phone companies would be left with nothing but low density suburbs and rural areas from which they'd be hard pressed to make much of a profit.
I think the AT&T statement is a combination of wishing, dreaming and trying to make people think 3G/4G in a tablet is more important than it really is. It's about saving an endangered business model.
People want devices capable of always being data-accessable. The challenge is getting MUCH more reasonable pricing from cellular companies for the same...
Your phone most certainly can't use a commitment free tablet data plan. It's all the same data, but the carriers insist on being paid twice for it.
Actually, if your phone is unlocked and is not on contract, you can use a tablet data plan on it. Just pop in the SIM card with a tablet data plan on it, and change the APN to match the tablet data plan's APN. Now, you may claim that AT&T's contract prohibit such usage, but this is a grey area because it isn't clear such a clause is enforceable in a court of law. I'm allowed, per my contract terms, to place my tablet data plan's SIM in other iPads or other tablets if I so choose, so why couldn't I insert it into my iPhone? "Because it is a phone", say you? Actually, no it is labeled iPhone, but without any plan on it, it is simply a smaller tablet as long as it being used as such. I don't think AT&T would win that argument in court. "It can't be a tablet because the screen is only 3.5"? Ya I'd like to see them make that argument in court.
But you don't even need to worry about the courts right now. AT&T doesn't even block you from using your tablet data plan on your unlocked contract free phones. I did it for 3 years when I was in the US, and now do it in Canada with Bell. No carrier that I am aware of blocks such usage. In Canada, Bell even lets me add a voice plan with 100 minutes a month for 12$ on the Tablet data plan if I elect to do so.
What no carrier allows however is for you to use your tablet data plan on your phone if your phone already has a contract with the carrier. If your iPhone is under contract, you must use the phone's data plan and not the tablet plan. If you try using the tablet plan on a phone that only has a voice plan, the carrier will simply add a phone data plan to your contract automatically. As I said though, they do not add voice plans to tablet data plans, for the most part, nor do they block tablet plans from being used in unlocked, commitment free, phones.
I think Apple should put up its own Wi-Fi networks on every street throughout each city in which they have a retail store. Then expand iMessage to include VOIP to call regular phone numbers like Skype. If they did that we would see very competitive pricing from the cell carriers.
Apple doesn't have its own wifi networks.
Apple also isn't stupid and doesn't want to dilute its highly profitable business with a low margin/negative margin business. Want to see a stock go from $600 to $300? This is a great way to make that happen.
But you don't even need to worry about the courts right now. AT&T doesn't even block you from using your tablet data plan on your unlocked contract free phones. I did it for 3 years when I was in the US, and now do it in Canada with Bell. No carrier that I am aware of blocks such usage. In Canada, Bell even lets me add a voice plan with 100 minutes a month for 12$ on the Tablet data plan if I elect to do so.
What no carrier allows however is for you to use your tablet data plan on your phone if your phone already has a contract with the carrier. If your iPhone is under contract, you must use the phone's data plan and not the tablet plan. If you try using the tablet plan on a phone that only has a voice plan, the carrier will simply add a phone data plan to your contract automatically. As I said though, they do not add voice plans to tablet data plans, for the most part, nor do they block tablet plans from being used in unlocked, commitment free, phones.
I should point out that ever since the TDMA device era, both AT&T and Rogers (Canada) predecessors have always had separate voice and data provisioning. In the 2G system, data was rarely provisioned owing to lack of devices (mainly Blackberry devices), and text-messaging, voicemail, etc were what's known as "bolt-on" features. As they migrated to 3G billing systems, the new billing systems enforce specific combinations of plans, features and promotions and can only be overridden by higher management, unlike the 2G systems which many customers days were ruined once unmatching changes were saved. These were enforced by a maintenance program, so you'd have the illegal combination for about a week, and then the maintenance program would delete it. That's where most billing errors come from.
So when you switch from no-commitment to post-paid or vice-versa, the representative typically is forced by the billing system to remove features, and you may not have that explained to you, as some features are trivial. In Canada for example, a big deal is still made over including long distance, where as most US voice plans include nationwide long distance as standard.
You have to make sure the representative reads back the entire setup of your device, before saving it, as certain promotions are usually only available for about 6 months, and then if they're removed, they do not come back, period. If you've had something like "unlimited data", I guarantee you it's gone the second you call in to change anything on that device. To add a voice plan to it, may force the billing system to delete it, if you move from "separately provisioned" data and voice plans to a combination plan. "Data devices" are normally provisioned as "data plans" with optional voice bolt-ons, where as phones are provisioned the other way around.
Considering the high costs of data, the carriers would absolutely love for all tablets and probably laptops to include cellular radios; they would be rolling in dough.
I think Apple should put up its own Wi-Fi networks on every street throughout each city in which they have a retail store.
Why should it be Apple. Why should they provide wifi to cities. It's not their responsibility to 'wire' anything at their own cost anymore than it is for them to solve the education issue, the unemployment issue, to change the labor laws in foreign countries etc.
If the cities want wifi on the streets that is their business and their task to undertake.
Sorry, but I don't want my only option to be a 4G/Wi-Fi iPad. I'd never pay AT&T their high fee just to check an email, post a pic or play a game.
You seem to be forgetting that you aren't on contract with an iPad. You can start and stop as much as you like, with no activation or termination fees. The only rule is that if you don't use the whole chunk of data it doesn't roll over nor can you get a refund. but otherwise, have at it.
so if you want to stick to wifi you can.
all ATT is saying is that they believe, and I think they are right, that one day the component prices will be so low that our 16GB (or whatever the baseline is) iPad will sell for the same $499 and have the cell radio in it, rather than now where we have to pay over $100 extra for that piece of hardware. And I happen to agree. there might be one wifi only that is essentially an education/kids model but the rest will have both wifi and cell data radios in them without the markup
I think Apple should put up its own Wi-Fi networks on every street throughout each city in which they have a retail store. Then expand iMessage to include VOIP to call regular phone numbers like Skype. If they did that we would see very competitive pricing from the cell carriers.
In Switzerland most cities now have free wif, in fact in Zurich you can be connected almost everywhere, the entire day without ever using you data plan.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by yensid98
Sorry, but I don't want my only option to be a 4G/Wi-Fi iPad. I'd never pay AT&T their high fee just to check an email, post a pic or play a game. I'd much rather wait until I can do it over my already expensive Wi-Fi network at home or some other place where I don't pay. Besides, that black rubber bar on the 4G iPad is not attractive.
Perhaps nobody told you, but you're supposed to look at the FRONT of the iPad.
The electronics business worries about components that add 5 cents to costs. Getting them to include a $30-70 part is laughable.
What people hate is that the carriers treat each bucket of data separately. Your tablet can't share your phone's data cap unless you pay extra to enable tethering. Your phone most certainly can't use a commitment free tablet data plan. It's all the same data, but the carriers insist on being paid twice for it. Recently I've seen shared data plans, but they're always tied to a phone contract and always cost more than non-shared data.
The reason WiFi-only devices sell so well is that people have realized they don't need cellular data. We already have free WiFi in a lot of public places and paid WiFi in many more. If a big player like Apple or Google decided to blanket large urban areas with WiFi the cell phone companies would be left with nothing but low density suburbs and rural areas from which they'd be hard pressed to make much of a profit.
I think the AT&T statement is a combination of wishing, dreaming and trying to make people think 3G/4G in a tablet is more important than it really is. It's about saving an endangered business model.
Yea, he forgot to mention Macbooks too...
People want devices capable of always being data-accessable. The challenge is getting MUCH more reasonable pricing from cellular companies for the same...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregalad
Your phone most certainly can't use a commitment free tablet data plan. It's all the same data, but the carriers insist on being paid twice for it.
Actually, if your phone is unlocked and is not on contract, you can use a tablet data plan on it. Just pop in the SIM card with a tablet data plan on it, and change the APN to match the tablet data plan's APN. Now, you may claim that AT&T's contract prohibit such usage, but this is a grey area because it isn't clear such a clause is enforceable in a court of law. I'm allowed, per my contract terms, to place my tablet data plan's SIM in other iPads or other tablets if I so choose, so why couldn't I insert it into my iPhone? "Because it is a phone", say you? Actually, no it is labeled iPhone, but without any plan on it, it is simply a smaller tablet as long as it being used as such. I don't think AT&T would win that argument in court. "It can't be a tablet because the screen is only 3.5"? Ya I'd like to see them make that argument in court.
But you don't even need to worry about the courts right now. AT&T doesn't even block you from using your tablet data plan on your unlocked contract free phones. I did it for 3 years when I was in the US, and now do it in Canada with Bell. No carrier that I am aware of blocks such usage. In Canada, Bell even lets me add a voice plan with 100 minutes a month for 12$ on the Tablet data plan if I elect to do so.
What no carrier allows however is for you to use your tablet data plan on your phone if your phone already has a contract with the carrier. If your iPhone is under contract, you must use the phone's data plan and not the tablet plan. If you try using the tablet plan on a phone that only has a voice plan, the carrier will simply add a phone data plan to your contract automatically. As I said though, they do not add voice plans to tablet data plans, for the most part, nor do they block tablet plans from being used in unlocked, commitment free, phones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
I think Apple should put up its own Wi-Fi networks on every street throughout each city in which they have a retail store. Then expand iMessage to include VOIP to call regular phone numbers like Skype. If they did that we would see very competitive pricing from the cell carriers.
Apple doesn't have its own wifi networks.
Apple also isn't stupid and doesn't want to dilute its highly profitable business with a low margin/negative margin business. Want to see a stock go from $600 to $300? This is a great way to make that happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johndoe98
But you don't even need to worry about the courts right now. AT&T doesn't even block you from using your tablet data plan on your unlocked contract free phones. I did it for 3 years when I was in the US, and now do it in Canada with Bell. No carrier that I am aware of blocks such usage. In Canada, Bell even lets me add a voice plan with 100 minutes a month for 12$ on the Tablet data plan if I elect to do so.
What no carrier allows however is for you to use your tablet data plan on your phone if your phone already has a contract with the carrier. If your iPhone is under contract, you must use the phone's data plan and not the tablet plan. If you try using the tablet plan on a phone that only has a voice plan, the carrier will simply add a phone data plan to your contract automatically. As I said though, they do not add voice plans to tablet data plans, for the most part, nor do they block tablet plans from being used in unlocked, commitment free, phones.
I should point out that ever since the TDMA device era, both AT&T and Rogers (Canada) predecessors have always had separate voice and data provisioning. In the 2G system, data was rarely provisioned owing to lack of devices (mainly Blackberry devices), and text-messaging, voicemail, etc were what's known as "bolt-on" features. As they migrated to 3G billing systems, the new billing systems enforce specific combinations of plans, features and promotions and can only be overridden by higher management, unlike the 2G systems which many customers days were ruined once unmatching changes were saved. These were enforced by a maintenance program, so you'd have the illegal combination for about a week, and then the maintenance program would delete it. That's where most billing errors come from.
So when you switch from no-commitment to post-paid or vice-versa, the representative typically is forced by the billing system to remove features, and you may not have that explained to you, as some features are trivial. In Canada for example, a big deal is still made over including long distance, where as most US voice plans include nationwide long distance as standard.
You have to make sure the representative reads back the entire setup of your device, before saving it, as certain promotions are usually only available for about 6 months, and then if they're removed, they do not come back, period. If you've had something like "unlimited data", I guarantee you it's gone the second you call in to change anything on that device. To add a voice plan to it, may force the billing system to delete it, if you move from "separately provisioned" data and voice plans to a combination plan. "Data devices" are normally provisioned as "data plans" with optional voice bolt-ons, where as phones are provisioned the other way around.
Considering the high costs of data, the carriers would absolutely love for all tablets and probably laptops to include cellular radios; they would be rolling in dough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
I think Apple should put up its own Wi-Fi networks on every street throughout each city in which they have a retail store.
Why should it be Apple. Why should they provide wifi to cities. It's not their responsibility to 'wire' anything at their own cost anymore than it is for them to solve the education issue, the unemployment issue, to change the labor laws in foreign countries etc.
If the cities want wifi on the streets that is their business and their task to undertake.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yensid98
Sorry, but I don't want my only option to be a 4G/Wi-Fi iPad. I'd never pay AT&T their high fee just to check an email, post a pic or play a game.
You seem to be forgetting that you aren't on contract with an iPad. You can start and stop as much as you like, with no activation or termination fees. The only rule is that if you don't use the whole chunk of data it doesn't roll over nor can you get a refund. but otherwise, have at it.
so if you want to stick to wifi you can.
all ATT is saying is that they believe, and I think they are right, that one day the component prices will be so low that our 16GB (or whatever the baseline is) iPad will sell for the same $499 and have the cell radio in it, rather than now where we have to pay over $100 extra for that piece of hardware. And I happen to agree. there might be one wifi only that is essentially an education/kids model but the rest will have both wifi and cell data radios in them without the markup
In Switzerland most cities now have free wif, in fact in Zurich you can be connected almost everywhere, the entire day without ever using you data plan.