Reducing the bezel structurally weakens the phone. They'll widen it.
Based on what? We're talking about the non-functional black band around the edge of the screen. How would it weaken the phone to make the screen cover more of the glass area????
Furthermore, what in the world makes you think that they'll WIDEN the bezel? That's not going to happen.
Have seen the FlyGrip. It's a silly gadget thats actually quite usefull.
ROTFLMAO. So the Apple haters make fun of the fact that Apple proposed a bumper which adds a tiny 1/8" or so to the width of the phone and argued that it was silly and clunky, but we're supposed to use that monstrosity? Sorry, I'll take a phone that's easy to use from the start rather than a phone that requires a separate handle.
I've read some stuff on how changing the aspect ratio slightly wouldn't be a total hurdle for most developers - would provide new real estate for iOS 6 - and wouldn't widen the phone much if at all - AND - so the thumb would have about the same L-R sweep, if not vertical. (Also as noted people have more than one size of hand - a fairly wide range in fact.)
And iPhone and iPad apps are already differentiated, so no impact there.
It's not going to happen. I just don't see Apple releasing a slightly different aspect ratio. Too much like Android's fragmentation.
Jobs was saying the iPad UI doesn't work on a smaller device. The iPhone, although smaller, has a different UI designed for smaller devices.
This is no more true than the last 100 times it was claimed. Apple has a single iOS UI - as spelled out in the iOS guidelines. The UI for the iPhone and iPad is the same - according to Apple's guidelines.
There are a very small number of areas where there are differentiating factors, but they are insignificant in terms of the UI.
... This is no more true than the last 100 times it was claimed. Apple has a single iOS UI - as spelled out in the iOS guidelines. The UI for the iPhone and iPad is the same - according to Apple's guidelines.
There are a very small number of areas where there are differentiating factors, but they are insignificant in terms of the UI.
So, now there are "differentiating factors" but it's still the same? I guess that's progress in your thinking, at least. But, the HIG document doesn't support your argument, so you should probably stop referencing it.
However, as far as a size change goes, reducing the bezel width causes at lest two problems: 1. More accidental taps. 2. If the bezel becomes too small, as on some Android phones, it can become difficult to position the cursor all the way at the edge of the screen in a text field because it's difficult to actually get your fingertip in the right position without it going off the phone.
Jobs said a smaller iPad wouldn't work because people's fingers aren't that small.
Why, then, is the even smaller display on the iPhone considered adequate?
I'm 2 1/2 years on a 3GS. My next phone will definitely have a larger screen. I'm more than happy to leave Apple for another brand that gives consumers what they want.
Good luck should you choose a competitor's device. Whether you realize the truth or not, Apple is giving customers what they want:
1. The top three selling phones in the United States are all designed by Apple in California.
2. Apple iPhones have the highest customer retention rate at 89% versus the competition, next nearest hardware is HTC at 39%.
3. Apple has the best customer service in every market in which they compete.
4. Apple iPhone even during "Antennagate" had a 2% return rate while the competition has mobile device return rates as high as 16%.
5. Apple provides the best ecosystem with iTunes with nearly 70% market share in digital music downloads and digital movie downloads as well as free, perpetual storage of all previously purchased media available for downloading again on demand.
6. Apple provides the best "cloud" solution with cross platform compatibility for calendars, contacts, email, "find my device" with notes and reminders available soon too. Furthermore, the 5 GB of free storage allows users to synch documents and data (apps) across devices and backup devices as well as temporarily storing and synching digital photos to the cloud (up to 1000 photos and doesn't subtract from the 5 GB).
7. Apple has the best software for mobile devices, clearly demonstrated by the fact that competitors need 150% of the process clock speed and 200% of the RAM of the iPhone 4S to simply match the performance.
It is very un-Jobs to switch to larger size. If anyone looks the the Apple product history, Jobs always goes small or nothing whenever he can. For him a device has to be functional as well as ease of use. Of course, there is no one to stop Cooks and Co. to go with larger iphone, only if there are poor sales number that can stop this. I think Samsung's variety of smartphones are forcing them to test the water.
Stop. You had me at "Apple is giving customers what they want".
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro
Good luck should you choose a competitor's device. Whether you realize the truth or not, Apple is giving customers what they want:
1. The top three selling phones in the United States are all designed by Apple in California.
2. Apple iPhones have the highest customer retention rate at 89% versus the competition, next nearest hardware is HTC at 39%.
3. Apple has the best customer service in every market in which they compete.
4. Apple iPhone even during "Antennagate" had a 2% return rate while the competition has mobile device return rates as high as 16%.
5. Apple provides the best ecosystem with iTunes with nearly 70% market share in digital music downloads and digital movie downloads as well as free, perpetual storage of all previously purchased media available for downloading again on demand.
6. Apple provides the best "cloud" solution with cross platform compatibility for calendars, contacts, email, "find my device" with notes and reminders available soon too. Furthermore, the 5 GB of free storage allows users to synch documents and data (apps) across devices and backup devices as well as temporarily storing and synching digital photos to the cloud (up to 1000 photos and doesn't subtract from the 5 GB).
7. Apple has the best software for mobile devices, clearly demonstrated by the fact that competitors need 150% of the process clock speed and 200% of the RAM of the iPhone 4S to simply match the performance.
Stop. You had me at "Apple is giving customers what they want".
You're taking a superficial view here. No one is claiming is Apple is creating a different display size, aspect ratio, etc. to appeal to every possible use case, but Apple is giving customers the or thing that others continually fail to offer, a great user experience.
When did Android get a HW accelerated UI? Why does it sill feel more sluggish even with faster HW? Why does the battery not last as long a Apple's devices without an extended battery pack? What about the multitude of elements that aren't easily quantified but have made the iPhone, iPad, an iPod Touch the number one choice in smartphone, tablet and PMP?
Bottom line: if Apple wasn't giving customers what they wanted they wouldn't be repeat customers.
It is very un-Jobs to switch to larger size. If anyone looks the the Apple product history, Jobs always goes small or nothing whenever he can. For him a device has to be functional as well as ease of use. Of course, there is no one to stop Cooks and Co. to go with larger iphone, only if there are poor sales number that can stop this. I think Samsung's variety of smartphones are forcing them to test the water.
They are talking about larger screen, not larger phone. And of course Jobs/Apple have evolved products to larger screens before.
As for overall size, the new iPad is slightly larger than iPad2.
Let's just hope Apple remembers their market now extends beyond the borders of the USA when selecting their 4G chipsets...
I really don't want to see the next iPhone slowly limp off the starting line if it becomes the second Apple product to promise more than it can deliver (I'm looking at you, iPad 3). Why would anyone splurge for the iPhone 5 if it's no better than the iPhone 4S in their market?
You're taking a superficial view here. No one is claiming is Apple is creating a different display size, aspect ratio, etc. to appeal to every possible use case, but Apple is giving customers the or thing that others continually fail to offer, a great user experience.
When did Android get a HW accelerated UI? Why does it sill feel more sluggish even with faster HW? Why does the battery not last as long a Apple's devices without an extended battery pack? What about the multitude of elements that aren't easily quantified but have made the iPhone, iPad, an iPod Touch the number one choice in smartphone, tablet and PMP?
Bottom line: if Apple wasn't giving customers what they wanted they wouldn't be repeat customers.
If this is true, I'm betting Apple will have a functional rationale - i.e. it won't be just about making a larger screen to join the crowd. They will explain how this can benefit users from a functional perspective.
Generally I am used to just rounding up. Rather then saying 1.83 or 183 cm. Many people when it comes to height just say foot is equal to 2 meters. And depending if I have a large afro then I am 2m.
Good luck should you choose a competitor's device. Whether you realize the truth or not, Apple is giving customers what they want:
1. The top three selling phones in the United States are all designed by Apple in California.
2. Apple iPhones have the highest customer retention rate at 89% versus the competition, next nearest hardware is HTC at 39%.
3. Apple has the best customer service in every market in which they compete.
4. Apple iPhone even during "Antennagate" had a 2% return rate while the competition has mobile device return rates as high as 16%.
5. Apple provides the best ecosystem with iTunes with nearly 70% market share in digital music downloads and digital movie downloads as well as free, perpetual storage of all previously purchased media available for downloading again on demand.
6. Apple provides the best "cloud" solution with cross platform compatibility for calendars, contacts, email, "find my device" with notes and reminders available soon too. Furthermore, the 5 GB of free storage allows users to synch documents and data (apps) across devices and backup devices as well as temporarily storing and synching digital photos to the cloud (up to 1000 photos and doesn't subtract from the 5 GB).
7. Apple has the best software for mobile devices, clearly demonstrated by the fact that competitors need 150% of the process clock speed and 200% of the RAM of the iPhone 4S to simply match the performance.
And this would likely remain true if Apple tweaked the screen size. Or invented a new battery that lasted twice as long. Or changed the display technology. Or added iOS functions.
I predict the 4"+ size will be more popular than the 3.5" by a wide margin. People are aging. Size does matter. These things are more like computers and we need to be able to read the text and interact with Apps and type on the keys. There will be a sweet spot as far as overall size and maintaining its mobility characteristics. A nice balance between size, weight, thinness, functionality, etc.
I was simply complementing his left brain analysis (details, justifications, numbers, etc.) with the right brain impact of the phone, the "I-can't-believe-this-is-what-a -well-done-piece-of-technology-should-be". Granted, the cheeky reference to Jerry McGuire is showing my age.
In other words, it was my way of agreeing without explicitly saying so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
You're taking a superficial view here. No one is claiming is Apple is creating a different display size, aspect ratio, etc. to appeal to every possible use case, but Apple is giving customers the or thing that others continually fail to offer, a great user experience.
When did Android get a HW accelerated UI? Why does it sill feel more sluggish even with faster HW? Why does the battery not last as long a Apple's devices without an extended battery pack? What about the multitude of elements that aren't easily quantified but have made the iPhone, iPad, an iPod Touch the number one choice in smartphone, tablet and PMP?
Bottom line: if Apple wasn't giving customers what they wanted they wouldn't be repeat customers.
Or maybe we'll stick to our convictions because we're not mindless Jobs-sheep.
Incredible. You just utterly proved his point about cognitive dissonance. You've repeated, ad nauseum, how a slightly larger screen would obviously and naturally mean the company is 'self-imploding', in a 'down-ward spiral', the 'beginning of the end', and other such sensationally hilarious drivel. The insinuation being that this would not have happened on Jobs watch. Now that it comes out that Jobs approved a design with a larger screen, which would have shipped even if he was still with Apple, it contradicts that entire premise, unless you want us to believe that Jobs is responsible for Apple's 'downward spiral.
So instead of aknowledging that maybe your entire argument was flawed and is based on nothing but extreme closed-mindedness and rigid ideology, you twist it into some kind of 'virtue', that you have 'conviction', and in the same statement bash anyone has has the sense to have an open-mind about something that Steve Jobs would want, something that most reasonable people would agree is rational, as I think the guy by now deserves SOME benefit of the doubt, no? That statement is just as bad, if not worse than what an anti-apple troll would spout, how natural and fitting that you would stoop down to the 'sheep' attack line when that's all you have left to defend your flimsy sensationalism. I like how you pretend you're some kind of independant thinker, when in reality its the exact opposite, and you're simply unable to accept anything thats even slightly different than whats available. So, naturally people who give something a chance because it comes from Steve Jobs are sheep, because it's not like he deserves a smidgeon of trust when it comes to launching new products, right? We're better off listening to the inane rantings of someone like you? Is it that far fetched that if SJ tested and believed in a larger screen, that IT MIGHT ACTUALLY BE A GOOD PRODUCT? No, of course not, because you have your 'convictions', and one of your convictions was that this decision was the result of a post-Jobs Apple, which just got blown out of the water, so you scramble to troll hard and completely change your argument in some desperate attempt at saving face. But like everything else, it always tends to make you look worse, because you've shown on these boards that you'd do and say instead of admitting you're wrong, in the face of overwhelming evidence. Believe it or not, this is not called 'conviction', but something much worse.
Comments
Considerably less than that if they reduce the border.
Based on what? We're talking about the non-functional black band around the edge of the screen. How would it weaken the phone to make the screen cover more of the glass area????
Furthermore, what in the world makes you think that they'll WIDEN the bezel? That's not going to happen.
ROTFLMAO. So the Apple haters make fun of the fact that Apple proposed a bumper which adds a tiny 1/8" or so to the width of the phone and argued that it was silly and clunky, but we're supposed to use that monstrosity? Sorry, I'll take a phone that's easy to use from the start rather than a phone that requires a separate handle.
It's not going to happen. I just don't see Apple releasing a slightly different aspect ratio. Too much like Android's fragmentation.
This is no more true than the last 100 times it was claimed. Apple has a single iOS UI - as spelled out in the iOS guidelines. The UI for the iPhone and iPad is the same - according to Apple's guidelines.
There are a very small number of areas where there are differentiating factors, but they are insignificant in terms of the UI.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
... This is no more true than the last 100 times it was claimed. Apple has a single iOS UI - as spelled out in the iOS guidelines. The UI for the iPhone and iPad is the same - according to Apple's guidelines.
There are a very small number of areas where there are differentiating factors, but they are insignificant in terms of the UI.
So, now there are "differentiating factors" but it's still the same? I guess that's progress in your thinking, at least. But, the HIG document doesn't support your argument, so you should probably stop referencing it.
However, as far as a size change goes, reducing the bezel width causes at lest two problems: 1. More accidental taps. 2. If the bezel becomes too small, as on some Android phones, it can become difficult to position the cursor all the way at the edge of the screen in a text field because it's difficult to actually get your fingertip in the right position without it going off the phone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LizSandford
Jobs said a smaller iPad wouldn't work because people's fingers aren't that small.
Why, then, is the even smaller display on the iPhone considered adequate?
I'm 2 1/2 years on a 3GS. My next phone will definitely have a larger screen. I'm more than happy to leave Apple for another brand that gives consumers what they want.
Good luck should you choose a competitor's device. Whether you realize the truth or not, Apple is giving customers what they want:
1. The top three selling phones in the United States are all designed by Apple in California.
2. Apple iPhones have the highest customer retention rate at 89% versus the competition, next nearest hardware is HTC at 39%.
3. Apple has the best customer service in every market in which they compete.
4. Apple iPhone even during "Antennagate" had a 2% return rate while the competition has mobile device return rates as high as 16%.
5. Apple provides the best ecosystem with iTunes with nearly 70% market share in digital music downloads and digital movie downloads as well as free, perpetual storage of all previously purchased media available for downloading again on demand.
6. Apple provides the best "cloud" solution with cross platform compatibility for calendars, contacts, email, "find my device" with notes and reminders available soon too. Furthermore, the 5 GB of free storage allows users to synch documents and data (apps) across devices and backup devices as well as temporarily storing and synching digital photos to the cloud (up to 1000 photos and doesn't subtract from the 5 GB).
7. Apple has the best software for mobile devices, clearly demonstrated by the fact that competitors need 150% of the process clock speed and 200% of the RAM of the iPhone 4S to simply match the performance.
It is very un-Jobs to switch to larger size. If anyone looks the the Apple product history, Jobs always goes small or nothing whenever he can. For him a device has to be functional as well as ease of use. Of course, there is no one to stop Cooks and Co. to go with larger iphone, only if there are poor sales number that can stop this. I think Samsung's variety of smartphones are forcing them to test the water.
Stop. You had me at "Apple is giving customers what they want".
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro
Good luck should you choose a competitor's device. Whether you realize the truth or not, Apple is giving customers what they want:
1. The top three selling phones in the United States are all designed by Apple in California.
2. Apple iPhones have the highest customer retention rate at 89% versus the competition, next nearest hardware is HTC at 39%.
3. Apple has the best customer service in every market in which they compete.
4. Apple iPhone even during "Antennagate" had a 2% return rate while the competition has mobile device return rates as high as 16%.
5. Apple provides the best ecosystem with iTunes with nearly 70% market share in digital music downloads and digital movie downloads as well as free, perpetual storage of all previously purchased media available for downloading again on demand.
6. Apple provides the best "cloud" solution with cross platform compatibility for calendars, contacts, email, "find my device" with notes and reminders available soon too. Furthermore, the 5 GB of free storage allows users to synch documents and data (apps) across devices and backup devices as well as temporarily storing and synching digital photos to the cloud (up to 1000 photos and doesn't subtract from the 5 GB).
7. Apple has the best software for mobile devices, clearly demonstrated by the fact that competitors need 150% of the process clock speed and 200% of the RAM of the iPhone 4S to simply match the performance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple v. Samsung
I am 2 meters or six feet tall.
One of these is incorrect. 6ft != 2 metres.
When did Android get a HW accelerated UI? Why does it sill feel more sluggish even with faster HW? Why does the battery not last as long a Apple's devices without an extended battery pack? What about the multitude of elements that aren't easily quantified but have made the iPhone, iPad, an iPod Touch the number one choice in smartphone, tablet and PMP?
Bottom line: if Apple wasn't giving customers what they wanted they wouldn't be repeat customers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Techboy
It is very un-Jobs to switch to larger size. If anyone looks the the Apple product history, Jobs always goes small or nothing whenever he can. For him a device has to be functional as well as ease of use. Of course, there is no one to stop Cooks and Co. to go with larger iphone, only if there are poor sales number that can stop this. I think Samsung's variety of smartphones are forcing them to test the water.
They are talking about larger screen, not larger phone. And of course Jobs/Apple have evolved products to larger screens before.
As for overall size, the new iPad is slightly larger than iPad2.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley
One of these is incorrect. 6ft != 2 metres.
Pretty obvious he is 6 ft tall and not 2 m.
Let's just hope Apple remembers their market now extends beyond the borders of the USA when selecting their 4G chipsets...
I really don't want to see the next iPhone slowly limp off the starting line if it becomes the second Apple product to promise more than it can deliver (I'm looking at you, iPad 3). Why would anyone splurge for the iPhone 5 if it's no better than the iPhone 4S in their market?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
You're taking a superficial view here. No one is claiming is Apple is creating a different display size, aspect ratio, etc. to appeal to every possible use case, but Apple is giving customers the or thing that others continually fail to offer, a great user experience.
When did Android get a HW accelerated UI? Why does it sill feel more sluggish even with faster HW? Why does the battery not last as long a Apple's devices without an extended battery pack? What about the multitude of elements that aren't easily quantified but have made the iPhone, iPad, an iPod Touch the number one choice in smartphone, tablet and PMP?
Bottom line: if Apple wasn't giving customers what they wanted they wouldn't be repeat customers.
If this is true, I'm betting Apple will have a functional rationale - i.e. it won't be just about making a larger screen to join the crowd. They will explain how this can benefit users from a functional perspective.
Generally I am used to just rounding up. Rather then saying 1.83 or 183 cm. Many people when it comes to height just say foot is equal to 2 meters. And depending if I have a large afro then I am 2m.
Apple doesn't give people what they want. Apple tells people what they want.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro
Good luck should you choose a competitor's device. Whether you realize the truth or not, Apple is giving customers what they want:
1. The top three selling phones in the United States are all designed by Apple in California.
2. Apple iPhones have the highest customer retention rate at 89% versus the competition, next nearest hardware is HTC at 39%.
3. Apple has the best customer service in every market in which they compete.
4. Apple iPhone even during "Antennagate" had a 2% return rate while the competition has mobile device return rates as high as 16%.
5. Apple provides the best ecosystem with iTunes with nearly 70% market share in digital music downloads and digital movie downloads as well as free, perpetual storage of all previously purchased media available for downloading again on demand.
6. Apple provides the best "cloud" solution with cross platform compatibility for calendars, contacts, email, "find my device" with notes and reminders available soon too. Furthermore, the 5 GB of free storage allows users to synch documents and data (apps) across devices and backup devices as well as temporarily storing and synching digital photos to the cloud (up to 1000 photos and doesn't subtract from the 5 GB).
7. Apple has the best software for mobile devices, clearly demonstrated by the fact that competitors need 150% of the process clock speed and 200% of the RAM of the iPhone 4S to simply match the performance.
And this would likely remain true if Apple tweaked the screen size. Or invented a new battery that lasted twice as long. Or changed the display technology. Or added iOS functions.
I predict the 4"+ size will be more popular than the 3.5" by a wide margin. People are aging. Size does matter. These things are more like computers and we need to be able to read the text and interact with Apps and type on the keys. There will be a sweet spot as far as overall size and maintaining its mobility characteristics. A nice balance between size, weight, thinness, functionality, etc.
Hmmm... Maybe I should use a sarcasm symbol?
I was simply complementing his left brain analysis (details, justifications, numbers, etc.) with the right brain impact of the phone, the "I-can't-believe-this-is-what-a -well-done-piece-of-technology-should-be". Granted, the cheeky reference to Jerry McGuire is showing my age.
In other words, it was my way of agreeing without explicitly saying so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
You're taking a superficial view here. No one is claiming is Apple is creating a different display size, aspect ratio, etc. to appeal to every possible use case, but Apple is giving customers the or thing that others continually fail to offer, a great user experience.
When did Android get a HW accelerated UI? Why does it sill feel more sluggish even with faster HW? Why does the battery not last as long a Apple's devices without an extended battery pack? What about the multitude of elements that aren't easily quantified but have made the iPhone, iPad, an iPod Touch the number one choice in smartphone, tablet and PMP?
Bottom line: if Apple wasn't giving customers what they wanted they wouldn't be repeat customers.
Or, more accurately, Apple sees what people want before the people even know it.
If people didn't want Apple products, they would buy something else. It's that simple.
People don't know what they want until you show it to them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe in miami
It seems to me that Apple will use the "Steve worked on this" for the next few years of new products.
"Boy, they really dropped the ball on this late 2017 iPad, who designed this thing"
"Uh, Steve worked on that?"
I want a 100 Milion Dollars, never seen it but I know I want it. Heeheh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Or maybe we'll stick to our convictions because we're not mindless Jobs-sheep.
Incredible. You just utterly proved his point about cognitive dissonance. You've repeated, ad nauseum, how a slightly larger screen would obviously and naturally mean the company is 'self-imploding', in a 'down-ward spiral', the 'beginning of the end', and other such sensationally hilarious drivel. The insinuation being that this would not have happened on Jobs watch. Now that it comes out that Jobs approved a design with a larger screen, which would have shipped even if he was still with Apple, it contradicts that entire premise, unless you want us to believe that Jobs is responsible for Apple's 'downward spiral.
So instead of aknowledging that maybe your entire argument was flawed and is based on nothing but extreme closed-mindedness and rigid ideology, you twist it into some kind of 'virtue', that you have 'conviction', and in the same statement bash anyone has has the sense to have an open-mind about something that Steve Jobs would want, something that most reasonable people would agree is rational, as I think the guy by now deserves SOME benefit of the doubt, no? That statement is just as bad, if not worse than what an anti-apple troll would spout, how natural and fitting that you would stoop down to the 'sheep' attack line when that's all you have left to defend your flimsy sensationalism. I like how you pretend you're some kind of independant thinker, when in reality its the exact opposite, and you're simply unable to accept anything thats even slightly different than whats available. So, naturally people who give something a chance because it comes from Steve Jobs are sheep, because it's not like he deserves a smidgeon of trust when it comes to launching new products, right? We're better off listening to the inane rantings of someone like you? Is it that far fetched that if SJ tested and believed in a larger screen, that IT MIGHT ACTUALLY BE A GOOD PRODUCT? No, of course not, because you have your 'convictions', and one of your convictions was that this decision was the result of a post-Jobs Apple, which just got blown out of the water, so you scramble to troll hard and completely change your argument in some desperate attempt at saving face. But like everything else, it always tends to make you look worse, because you've shown on these boards that you'd do and say instead of admitting you're wrong, in the face of overwhelming evidence. Believe it or not, this is not called 'conviction', but something much worse.