What makes you believe they still rely on just small viewer samples like they did "back in the day", and what makes you think your viewing habits aren't being monetized?
The evidence of today's tracking is pretty easy to see. As an example, if you use either Verizon FIOS or DirectTV you can search the most-viewed shows right now, fast proof that they know what each viewer is watching at that moment. You can see your own history, proof they also keep a record of your viewership. Now couple FIOS TV/Internet info with smartphone tracking via your Verizon Wireless service (you could substitute similar services supplied by Apple iPhones/iPads and Apple TV, or the ATT/DirectTV combo) They know your address and contact numbers, when you leave for work, where you work, your income, when or whether you leave for lunch, when you get home from work, whether anyone else stays home during the day watching TV or using the internet, what time your children get home from school. . .
but you're really concerned about Google. They're only a few of the trees in the forest.
EDIT: The current most-viewed show is SportsCenter, with the ID network in second and MSNBC third. That's in my market area in Central Florida.
Still waiting for evidence to support your claims.
Your own set-top box tracks your viewing so that it can give you the 'most viewed' or 'last viewed' option. But you haven't provided any evidence that Verizon or Cox or anyone else tracks that information.
And, as I said before, even if they did, it's nowhere near as bad as Google - which has an enormous database on you and has shown a willingness to violate privacy in the past.
And now the two most viewed shows in my area are Sportscenter (still) and a movie on TBS, Road Trip. Neither of these shows are viewed in my household, they're part of the "Hot Now" show listings on FIOS. I can also search the hot shows currently being recorded to Verizon DVR boxes. That's proof that viewers are being tracked.
IIRC, when we had Brighthouse they would make show recommendations based on what shows we normally watched. Now how would they know what we watched before if they didn't keep a history of my viewership? More proof.
And now the two most viewed shows in my area are Sportscenter (still) and a movie on TBS, Road Trip. Neither of these shows are viewed in my household, they're part of the "Hot Now" show listings on FIOS. I can also search the hot shows currently being recorded to Verizon DVR boxes. That's proof that viewers are being tracked.
No, it isn't. They could be getting 'hot new' listings from anywhere. Nielsen ratings or number of press reviews or money spent on advertising. Still waiting for proof.
IIRC, when we had Brighthouse they would make show recommendations based on what shows we normally watched. Now how would they know what we watched before if they didn't keep a history of my viewership? More proof.
Evidence? Even if you can show that Brighthouse DID make that claim, that's not evidence that they were tracking you. The could, for example, have logic inside the set-top box which tracks your viewing habits and selects from a range of options. For example, the set top box could be programmed to suggest 'Glee' if you watch 'American Idol'.
So where's your evidence that cable companies are tracking you? More importantly, where's your evidence that they're as bad as Google in terms of privacy violations?
Blatant lies. Nielsen households remain the only ones tracked.
Not true TS. Many (perhaps all) of the providers have their own in-house viewer research departments. There's also other viewer research companies being fed data by the cable and satellite companies. You may have confused official TV show viewership ratings, which are reported by Neilsen, with viewer tracking. Here's a few links.
This one claims to supply second-by-second viewing habits with data sent from set-top boxes.
and be sure to look at this one if you want an idea of just how much is personally known about you and gets combined with viewership histories. It's particularly telling, as well as disconcerting. For example they know whether anyone at a particular household uses prescription drugs and what TV shows those households watch, allowing better targeting of drug company ad dollars:
Personally I'm shocked that some of the most vocal members proclaiming we should be sore afraid of Google and only Google have no idea of the extent that companies other that Google have gone to track your movements, communications and interests. The scariest part is who's watching them, and who keeps them in line while everyone has their eyes on Google and FaceBook?
I wonder why then the ad industry still relies on data based on a (relatively small) sample of households and their viewing habits to spend the $68B that they annually do. Why haven't the cable companies monetized the heck out of it!?
Cable companies are monetizing the heck out of it... but it takes time to shift over to new technologies.
TV ad targeting has become the next big thing in television advertising. Actually being able to send out different ads in real time to different viewers watching the same program.
All of this is in its infancy but get prepared to have ads targeted specifically to you as you watch the television. [you just went out and bought a lawnmower with your credit card and suddenly there are Lowe's ads about garden supplies appearing more often that evening.]
... and, yes, the cable companies do know what you are watching.
Not true TS. Many (perhaps all) of the providers have their own in-house viewer research departments. There's also other viewer research companies being fed data by the cable and satellite companies. You may have confused official TV show viewership ratings, which are reported by Neilsen, with viewer tracking. Here's a few links.
and be sure to look at this one if you want an idea of just how much is personally known about you and gets combined with viewership histories. It's particularly telling, as well as disconcerting. For example they know whether anyone at a particular household uses prescription drugs and what TV shows those households watch, allowing better targeting of drug company ad dollars: http://www.traglobal.com/tvhr/
Interesting that you can misquote the source so badly.
"Why it’s different: We gather tuning data from America’s largest second-by-second TV tuning database
— 2 million households — and match it with purchase and demographic data from the largest single-source household database."
and if you dig a bit further
"TRA will draw anonymous viewing data from TiVo's base"
So there's no tracking of households. Still waiting for you to provide evidence that someone is tracking your personal information.
Interesting how far off the mark this one is. It's all about Nielsen. It states that in addition to tracking viewing habits of Nielsen households, they will also be tracking your online viewing habits. But since you volunteer to be part of the Nielsen tracking system (you get paid, IIRC), it's irrelevant to your claim that cable companies are tracking your viewing habits.
Personally I'm shocked that some of the most vocal members proclaiming we should be sore afraid of Google and only Google have no idea of the extent that companies other that Google have gone to track your movements, communications and interests. The scariest part is who's watching them, and who keeps them in line while everyone has their eyes on Google and FaceBook?
The difference, of course, is that Google has been caught repeatedly violating users' privacy. What evidence do you have that cable companies are doing the same thing? So far, none of your claimed citations panned out.
Cable companies are monetizing the heck out of it... but it takes time to shift over to new technologies.
TV ad targeting has become the next big thing in television advertising. Actually being able to send out different ads in real time to different viewers watching the same program.
All of this is in its infancy but get prepared to have ads targeted specifically to you as you watch the television. [you just went out and bought a lawnmower with your credit card and suddenly there are Lowe's ads about garden supplies appearing more often that evening.]
... and, yes, the cable companies do know what you are watching.
Still waiting for the evidence.
The cable companies know in aggregate what people are watching. But every analytics firm I've seen collects the data anonymously, so there's no tracking of personal information.
The cable companies know in aggregate what people are watching. But every analytics firm I've seen collects the data anonymously, so there's no tracking of personal information.
I know that it can be done and that is good enough for me. Whatever you wish to believe is up to you. I've seen the way you argue a point and it certainly aint worth my while.
... and I never said anything about collecting personal information by cable companies.
Blatant lies. Nielsen households remain the only ones tracked.
Not really. I think the claim that they "know when you switch channels" or what commercials you watch is unsupported, and I have no idea what kind of technology companies like Direct TV use, but by definition all Internet TV viewing/watching is tracked.
Any service (internet of not), that has a recently watched list, or can tell you what movies and shows you might like to see has to be tracking it's viewers watching habits merely to offer those services. That much is obvious.
Not really. I think the claim that they "know when you switch channels" or what commercials you watch is unsupported, and I have no idea what kind of technology companies like Direct TV use, but by definition all Internet TV viewing/watching is tracked.
Any service (internet of not), that has a recently watched list, or can tell you what movies and shows you might like to see has to be tracking it's viewers watching habits merely to offer those services. That much is obvious.
"When you switch channels"? Hmmm... they probably could tell if they wanted to do that on an individual basis but the information they are tracking is how many people are watching what at any point in time... and therefore if there is a major shift away from a certain channel 3 minutes into a program then that can be seen and is a useful piece of data. Whether or not you changed the channel is unimportant on an individual basis.
I think the objections I am seeing to the idea of cable companies being able to track individual usage might stem from the belief that cable companies are using that ability to actually track individuals or that they are misusing that data in some way. Five seconds of thought, though, would tell anyone that what you watch individually on tv is not that much data... it doesn't track what you spent, where you spent it, where you are, etc. and the cable companies cannot sell this data. There isn't too much gain in knowing your individual viewing habits.
I'm an apartment building manager. I collect enough data on people, either tenants or prospective tenants, to easily jeopardize their personal security. What I do with that information is the important part. If I was ever found to have sold that information to another person I'd be in jail for a long long time. Regardless, I still have that information.
Third parties, though, are trying to find ways to access this information legally and to use this information to better target ads. How they collaborate with cable companies will be interesting to watch and, as someone mentioned, who with any authority is watching them.
I'm an apartment building manager. I collect enough data on people, either tenants or prospective tenants, to easily jeopardize their personal security. What I do with that information is the important part. If I was ever found to have sold that information to another person I'd be in jail for a long long time. Regardless, I still have that information.
Third parties, though, are trying to find ways to access this information legally and to use this information to better target ads. How they collaborate with cable companies will be interesting to watch and, as someone mentioned, who with any authority is watching them.
Interesting thoughts, island hermit, especially the part about the legality of sharing personal information. It seems that the concern is that Google will gain one more channel to collect personal information, without taking into consideration the legal implications of such actions. What we really should be concerned is what protection the currently existing laws will provide to citizens when options for tracking increase over time, and whether efficient mechanisms exist for enforcing these laws. We need to know that legislation will protect us from individuals, companies, and the government itself, should any of those limit our liberties or threatens our integrity. If that is in place, no company, not even Google, can be a threat that we cannot deal with. If it isn't, don't kid yourself that Google will be the only one spying on you.
Jr, I proved all my original claims beyond a reasonable doubt. You on the other hand went from saying I was wrong and the cable company couldn't possibly know what your're watching, to saying those-shows-they-can't-possibly-know-you're watching are only shared anonymously (it's not anonymous to the cable provider). Of course that's a made-up disagreement in the first place as no one but you was discussing how sharing was done with third-parties. The real discussion was whether your viewing habits were being tracked, which they are as proven by my links. At least in the process you've acknowledged the cable and satellite providers must be tracking your viewing habits to have anything to anonymously share with 3rd parties in the first place.
Well seeing as Microsoft was successful in obtaining an injunction banning the importation of Motorola Android devices into the US, Google needs other markets to sell their stuff in.
That was one of those under reported actions this past Friday that made me chuckle.
Comments
Still waiting for evidence to support your claims.
Your own set-top box tracks your viewing so that it can give you the 'most viewed' or 'last viewed' option. But you haven't provided any evidence that Verizon or Cox or anyone else tracks that information.
And, as I said before, even if they did, it's nowhere near as bad as Google - which has an enormous database on you and has shown a willingness to violate privacy in the past.
And now the two most viewed shows in my area are Sportscenter (still) and a movie on TBS, Road Trip. Neither of these shows are viewed in my household, they're part of the "Hot Now" show listings on FIOS. I can also search the hot shows currently being recorded to Verizon DVR boxes. That's proof that viewers are being tracked.
IIRC, when we had Brighthouse they would make show recommendations based on what shows we normally watched. Now how would they know what we watched before if they didn't keep a history of my viewership? More proof.
No, it isn't. They could be getting 'hot new' listings from anywhere. Nielsen ratings or number of press reviews or money spent on advertising. Still waiting for proof.
Evidence? Even if you can show that Brighthouse DID make that claim, that's not evidence that they were tracking you. The could, for example, have logic inside the set-top box which tracks your viewing habits and selects from a range of options. For example, the set top box could be programmed to suggest 'Glee' if you watch 'American Idol'.
So where's your evidence that cable companies are tracking you? More importantly, where's your evidence that they're as bad as Google in terms of privacy violations?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Blatant lies. Nielsen households remain the only ones tracked.
Not true TS. Many (perhaps all) of the providers have their own in-house viewer research departments. There's also other viewer research companies being fed data by the cable and satellite companies. You may have confused official TV show viewership ratings, which are reported by Neilsen, with viewer tracking. Here's a few links.
This one claims to supply second-by-second viewing habits with data sent from set-top boxes.
http://www.rentrak.com/section/media/tv/scheduled_tv.html
and be sure to look at this one if you want an idea of just how much is personally known about you and gets combined with viewership histories. It's particularly telling, as well as disconcerting. For example they know whether anyone at a particular household uses prescription drugs and what TV shows those households watch, allowing better targeting of drug company ad dollars:
http://www.traglobal.com/tvhr/
And a general article on how viewers are counted, and how ratings are done.
http://nymag.com/arts/tv/features/68805/
Personally I'm shocked that some of the most vocal members proclaiming we should be sore afraid of Google and only Google have no idea of the extent that companies other that Google have gone to track your movements, communications and interests. The scariest part is who's watching them, and who keeps them in line while everyone has their eyes on Google and FaceBook?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Still waiting for evidence to support your claims.
...point, set, match
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
Really?
I wonder why then the ad industry still relies on data based on a (relatively small) sample of households and their viewing habits to spend the $68B that they annually do. Why haven't the cable companies monetized the heck out of it!?
Cable companies are monetizing the heck out of it... but it takes time to shift over to new technologies.
TV ad targeting has become the next big thing in television advertising. Actually being able to send out different ads in real time to different viewers watching the same program.
All of this is in its infancy but get prepared to have ads targeted specifically to you as you watch the television. [you just went out and bought a lawnmower with your credit card and suddenly there are Lowe's ads about garden supplies appearing more often that evening.]
... and, yes, the cable companies do know what you are watching.
"TV Essentials™ is comprehensive suite of research tools that calculates anonymous, second-by-second audience viewing patterns"
So they're not tracking personal information.
Interesting that you can misquote the source so badly.
"Why it’s different: We gather tuning data from America’s largest second-by-second TV tuning database
— 2 million households — and match it with purchase and demographic data from the largest single-source household database."
and if you dig a bit further
"TRA will draw anonymous viewing data from TiVo's base"
So there's no tracking of households. Still waiting for you to provide evidence that someone is tracking your personal information.
Interesting how far off the mark this one is. It's all about Nielsen. It states that in addition to tracking viewing habits of Nielsen households, they will also be tracking your online viewing habits. But since you volunteer to be part of the Nielsen tracking system (you get paid, IIRC), it's irrelevant to your claim that cable companies are tracking your viewing habits.
So you're 0 for 3.
The difference, of course, is that Google has been caught repeatedly violating users' privacy. What evidence do you have that cable companies are doing the same thing? So far, none of your claimed citations panned out.
Yep. You got skunked.
Still waiting for the evidence.
The cable companies know in aggregate what people are watching. But every analytics firm I've seen collects the data anonymously, so there's no tracking of personal information.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Still waiting for the evidence.
The cable companies know in aggregate what people are watching. But every analytics firm I've seen collects the data anonymously, so there's no tracking of personal information.
I know that it can be done and that is good enough for me. Whatever you wish to believe is up to you. I've seen the way you argue a point and it certainly aint worth my while.
... and I never said anything about collecting personal information by cable companies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexander Stuy
WTF? Two American companies. Why do they bother getting Chinese approval? Are they running it by Luxemburg also?
don't be a bigot, k?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Blatant lies. Nielsen households remain the only ones tracked.
Not really. I think the claim that they "know when you switch channels" or what commercials you watch is unsupported, and I have no idea what kind of technology companies like Direct TV use, but by definition all Internet TV viewing/watching is tracked.
Any service (internet of not), that has a recently watched list, or can tell you what movies and shows you might like to see has to be tracking it's viewers watching habits merely to offer those services. That much is obvious.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
Not really. I think the claim that they "know when you switch channels" or what commercials you watch is unsupported, and I have no idea what kind of technology companies like Direct TV use, but by definition all Internet TV viewing/watching is tracked.
Any service (internet of not), that has a recently watched list, or can tell you what movies and shows you might like to see has to be tracking it's viewers watching habits merely to offer those services. That much is obvious.
"When you switch channels"? Hmmm... they probably could tell if they wanted to do that on an individual basis but the information they are tracking is how many people are watching what at any point in time... and therefore if there is a major shift away from a certain channel 3 minutes into a program then that can be seen and is a useful piece of data. Whether or not you changed the channel is unimportant on an individual basis.
I think the objections I am seeing to the idea of cable companies being able to track individual usage might stem from the belief that cable companies are using that ability to actually track individuals or that they are misusing that data in some way. Five seconds of thought, though, would tell anyone that what you watch individually on tv is not that much data... it doesn't track what you spent, where you spent it, where you are, etc. and the cable companies cannot sell this data. There isn't too much gain in knowing your individual viewing habits.
I'm an apartment building manager. I collect enough data on people, either tenants or prospective tenants, to easily jeopardize their personal security. What I do with that information is the important part. If I was ever found to have sold that information to another person I'd be in jail for a long long time. Regardless, I still have that information.
Third parties, though, are trying to find ways to access this information legally and to use this information to better target ads. How they collaborate with cable companies will be interesting to watch and, as someone mentioned, who with any authority is watching them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit
...
I'm an apartment building manager. I collect enough data on people, either tenants or prospective tenants, to easily jeopardize their personal security. What I do with that information is the important part. If I was ever found to have sold that information to another person I'd be in jail for a long long time. Regardless, I still have that information.
Third parties, though, are trying to find ways to access this information legally and to use this information to better target ads. How they collaborate with cable companies will be interesting to watch and, as someone mentioned, who with any authority is watching them.
Interesting thoughts, island hermit, especially the part about the legality of sharing personal information. It seems that the concern is that Google will gain one more channel to collect personal information, without taking into consideration the legal implications of such actions. What we really should be concerned is what protection the currently existing laws will provide to citizens when options for tracking increase over time, and whether efficient mechanisms exist for enforcing these laws. We need to know that legislation will protect us from individuals, companies, and the government itself, should any of those limit our liberties or threatens our integrity. If that is in place, no company, not even Google, can be a threat that we cannot deal with. If it isn't, don't kid yourself that Google will be the only one spying on you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
don't be a bigot, k?
I don't think that word means what you think it does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj
I don't think that word means what you think it does.
Oh, don't worry. I'm a racist for wanting an impartial judge (redundant phrase?) in the Apple v. Samsung trial.
Words can mean what people want them to mean.
Jr, I proved all my original claims beyond a reasonable doubt. You on the other hand went from saying I was wrong and the cable company couldn't possibly know what your're watching, to saying those-shows-they-can't-possibly-know-you're watching are only shared anonymously (it's not anonymous to the cable provider). Of course that's a made-up disagreement in the first place as no one but you was discussing how sharing was done with third-parties. The real discussion was whether your viewing habits were being tracked, which they are as proven by my links. At least in the process you've acknowledged the cable and satellite providers must be tracking your viewing habits to have anything to anonymously share with 3rd parties in the first place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60
Well seeing as Microsoft was successful in obtaining an injunction banning the importation of Motorola Android devices into the US, Google needs other markets to sell their stuff in.
That was one of those under reported actions this past Friday that made me chuckle.
Does the US actually have any anti-trust laws anymore, or has auctioning Congresswhores off to the highest bidder pretty much put paid to all that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Blatant lies. Nielsen households remain the only ones tracked.
Then why does DirecTV offer its customers the ability to opt-out of tracking?