Absolutely. The only reason Facebook (and the rest) "whore" out users is because that is the main method of generating income. Whereas, if Apple were to ever create a proper social network, they wouldn't need to whore out the users, it would exist ultimately to sell more hardware.
As I have already stated, Apple has a social network. Apple's social network "just works" so well and is so well integrated into Apple products and services that you forget you are using their social network. Apple social networking users invest in Apple products and services because they like those products and services thus they purchase more products and services which furthers vendor lock-in. We know that users invest in Apple products and services due to the well documented customer satisfaction rates, customer retention rates as well as the market share of Apple products and services, especially the iTunes Store.
The key to the success of Apple's social networking is the persistent, ubiquitous but non-intrusive nature of the interactions. For example, Messages was simply integrated into the existing SMS/MMS app, multiplayer matchmaking is offered within many games via API. The concept of logging into a website or opening an app specifically to send an update or tweet doesn't exist, instead the interaction is part of the typical workflow for using a feature or accomplishing that function.
As I have already stated, Apple has a social network. Apple's social network "just works" so well and is so well integrated into Apple products and services that you forget you are using their social network. Apple social networking users invest in Apple products and services because they like those products and services thus they purchase more products and services which furthers vendor lock-in. We know that users invest in Apple products and services due to the well documented customer satisfaction rates, customer retention rates as well as the market share of Apple products and services, especially the iTunes Store.
The key to the success of Apple's social networking is the persistent, ubiquitous but non-intrusive nature of the interactions. For example, Messages was simply integrated into the existing SMS/MMS app, multiplayer matchmaking is offered within many games via API. The concept of logging into a website or opening an app specifically to send an update or tweet doesn't exist, instead the interaction is part of the typical workflow for using a feature or accomplishing that function.
While I appreciate the thought and effort that went into that analysis, I think you're missing a key element of a "social network." Think about Facebook, LinkedIn, and Twitter, for example. What are they all great at that is fairly revolutionary? Introducing me to/letting me learn about "friends of friends" (to use the Facebook terminology). I believe that's the KEY ingredient to a "social network" and Apple has nothing (?) in that area. Not saying they should, just saying they don't. With Facebook I (eventually) reconnect with almost everyone I knew in high school and college. With LinkedIn, I make professional contacts and extend my professional network. With Twitter I learn about people who are interested in the same things/people I am. Does the Apple ecosystem do any of those things?
Note: this doesn't mean I think Apple SHOULD get into the social networking business. Just like they need not get into oil drilling or banking just because other companies are doing it.
... Apple does have a social network although we can discuss whether or not "wildly popular" is a valid description.
The point of creating a social network isn't to "whore out your users," that is the revenue model (for many social networks) although the difference is functionally indistinguishable to consumers. ...
I think we mostly agree but there is a lot of vagueness as to what a "social network" is being defined as here. I would agree that iCloud users or MobileMe before them are sort of a social network, but on the other hand all the social networks we've seen lately that are blatantly referred to as such by the media and the users, are quite completely different from what Apple is doing. That's why I like what Apple is doing.
If you sign up for iCloud to sync your documents, are you really "joining a social network" in the same sense as joining Facebook or Google+ signing up for MySpace in the past? I'm not so sure that's really an accurate description even though both are networks of users that have at least some "social" tools available to them.
Google in particular spends a lot of time and energy trying to purposely trick users, who "joined" Google only in the sense that they signed up for email or document sharing like MobileMe/iCloud ... into joining Google plus as well. So it seems that they at least differentiate between these two types of users. Those that just wanted one of the free services and those who want to join the "Google community."
I completely disagree with any attempts to pretend that social networks don't "whore out their users" however. It is as you say their main revenue model.
There is a fine difference between "users" and "customers" that people don't always appreciate. Google's users are the people that sign up for Google plus, Google's customers however are the advertisers. The same goes for every classic "social network" I've ever heard of.
Social networks "whore out their users," because their users are not their customers.
Apple's users on the other hand, are also it's customers. It provides service to these customers, some of these have a social component, but until they start selling us down the river like Google and Facebook, I don't think they can be called a "social network."
It's almost as if the very definition of the modern (online) "social network" is this specific disregard for the people using the network.
While I appreciate the thought and effort that went into that analysis, I think you're missing a key element of a "social network." Think about Facebook, LinkedIn, and Twitter, for example. What are they all great at that is fairly revolutionary? Introducing me to/letting me learn about "friends of friends" (to use the Facebook terminology). I believe that's the KEY ingredient to a "social network" and Apple has nothing (?) in that area. Not saying they should, just saying they don't. With Facebook I (eventually) reconnect with almost everyone I knew in high school and college. With LinkedIn, I make professional contacts and extend my professional network. With Twitter I learn about people who are interested in the same things/people I am. Does the Apple ecosystem do any of those things?
Note: this doesn't mean I think Apple SHOULD get into the social networking business. Just like they need not get into oil drilling or banking just because other companies are doing it.
Where is that key ingredient in Twitter, I must have missed the "friends of friends" discovery feature. Apple has a different revenue model and customer relationship. Social networks have existed since the introduction of modern man, social networking services simply redefined the meaning of social network. The problem is that "friends of friends" doesn't necessarily create intimacy or trust. Invasive social networks have a lifecycle but a persistent, ubiquitous, non-invasive social network doesn't necessarily have a lifecycle since social networking is an invisible feature of a completely different workflow.
An interesting factor to consider is longevity. Once the novelty of social networking disappears, only advertisements and social discoverability and sharing are left with the invasion of privacy concerns.
Facebook and Apple should patch up their differences so that Ping becomes integrated into FB, and FB becomes integrated into iOS.
No, no, no, no...I absolutely do not want Facecrap integrated into my phone. I don't like it and never will. I can understand Twitter, but not Facebook. Facebook is too intrusive for my liking.
I do like the idea of Apple integrating their own social network into their phones. In someways, they're already starting with messages. They should continue to build upon that. The issue they'd run into though is trying to get users to use it if they were to develop something. Making one is easy, getting people to use it is the hard part. Even though Facebook sucks and people don't like it, they still use it. If Apple could create a paradigm shift in the social network that would be huge for them.
I think they should buy Twitter to be honest. They already have a backbone and good entrance into this area. I think Apple could improve upon it, though they'd most likely only use it in their own products.
It's almost as if the very definition of the modern (online) "social network" is this specific disregard for the people using the network.
Agreed. I think there will eventually be pushback against this model. Facebook has extremely low customer satisfaction.
This is why I think Apple hasn't created an explicit social network and instead relies upon implicit social networking (FaceTime, Game Center, iMessage, iTunes, Ping, etc.)
Where is that key ingredient in Twitter, I must have missed the "friends of friends" discovery feature.
They have a "Who to Follow" section that shows you who to follow based on your followers..they also tell you which users are similar to you based on who you each follow.
To the point of the thread..
I find it funny that when I went to login here at AppleInsider Facebook Connect was sitting there. To me that's the real reason for a phone. Think of all the sites that use Facebook Connect for logging in or posting. That connection will be automatic with a Facebook Phone. Users would even more likely use their Facebook logins for all these sites which gives Zuck more info and more timely, pertinent ads. Once you agree to the Terms and Conditions Zuck will know everything you do in the mobile world. Oh you called AT&T customer service? Here's their Facebook page.
While I appreciate the thought and effort that went into that analysis, I think you're missing a key element of a "social network." Think about Facebook, LinkedIn, and Twitter, for example. What are they all great at that is fairly revolutionary? Introducing me to/letting me learn about "friends of friends" (to use the Facebook terminology). I believe that's the KEY ingredient to a "social network" and Apple has nothing (?) in that area. Not saying they should, just saying they don't. With Facebook I (eventually) reconnect with almost everyone I knew in high school and college. With LinkedIn, I make professional contacts and extend my professional network. With Twitter I learn about people who are interested in the same things/people I am. Does the Apple ecosystem do any of those things?
Note: this doesn't mean I think Apple SHOULD get into the social networking business. Just like they need not get into oil drilling or banking just because other companies are doing it.
. The problem is that "friends of friends" doesn't necessarily create intimacy or trust...
Sure but Apple could implement "friends of friends" differently, the problem with Facebook is that they almost force people to share as much as possible. Whereas, an Apple take on it would allow simple opt out, or rather even, opt-in.
That, I believe, is key here. Opt-in rather than a hidden and constantly changing opt-out (that often doesn't even opt-out properly).
Who would want to buy a Facebook phone?! Does not compute.
Facebook phone could make sense in theory:
Contacts = Friend list
Apps = Facebook apps
Messages = Facebook messages
Calendar = Facebook events
Video Calls = Skype
Notifications Center = triggered by messages, news feeds, wall posts, friend status changes, etc
I can imagine for people who literally live their lives in FB (having all friends and relatives signed up too, constantly updating their status and posting pictures of themselves or their puppies) this could be really convenient.
Disclaimer 1: I do not have FB account except the fake one for app development.
Disclaimer 2: The day iPhone has integration with Facebook I will stop buying the iPhone.
What kind of a retard would want a Facebook phone?
That's all people need, yet another phone, as if there aren't hundreds to choose between already in the crowded market place, mostly filled with junky Android phones.
And even better, a facebook phone, where you will probably get raped up the ass, and have all of your info stolen, by an overvalued company that relies on advertising for it's revenue.
What about all of the suckers who got zuckered in to buying that lame FB stock recently? These naive, foolish and greedy people got what they deserved. Simple math is apparently way too complicated for those zuckers. Talk about an over valued company. I'm glad to see the stock crashing down. A fair price for FB is around $10. Maybe I'd even buy a few shares myself, if it drops down to that price.
Facebook is just a website. Websites come and go. I imagine that the facebook phone will be a third rate product, just like the Amazon Kindle Fire. A product made by a company that has zero experience in ever making any hardware. The probability is extremely high that the facebook phone will be complete fucking crap. And that is my two cents.
Comments
So make a cheap device that looks like an iDevice with a Facebook skinned version of Android. Wonder what he'll call it - the Facebook Fire perhaps?
Quote:
Originally Posted by markbyrn
So make a cheap device that looks like an iDevice with a Facebook skinned version of Android. Wonder what he'll call it - the Facebook Fire perhaps?
Nah, code named "Douse" because "we hope to take away from the Amazon marketshare and see where we go from there".
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity
Absolutely. The only reason Facebook (and the rest) "whore" out users is because that is the main method of generating income. Whereas, if Apple were to ever create a proper social network, they wouldn't need to whore out the users, it would exist ultimately to sell more hardware.
As I have already stated, Apple has a social network. Apple's social network "just works" so well and is so well integrated into Apple products and services that you forget you are using their social network. Apple social networking users invest in Apple products and services because they like those products and services thus they purchase more products and services which furthers vendor lock-in. We know that users invest in Apple products and services due to the well documented customer satisfaction rates, customer retention rates as well as the market share of Apple products and services, especially the iTunes Store.
The key to the success of Apple's social networking is the persistent, ubiquitous but non-intrusive nature of the interactions. For example, Messages was simply integrated into the existing SMS/MMS app, multiplayer matchmaking is offered within many games via API. The concept of logging into a website or opening an app specifically to send an update or tweet doesn't exist, instead the interaction is part of the typical workflow for using a feature or accomplishing that function.
Apple
Facebook
Google
Twitter
User Base
125 million (based on unique iCloud users)
900 million
170 million
140 million
Persistent
Yes on Apple Hardware
No
No (can be circumvented on hardware)
No
Cross Platform
OS X, iOS, Windows (limited)
HTML based
HTML based
HTML based
Personalized Page
No
Facebook Pages
Google+ Pages
Yes
Contacts or Friends List
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes
Social Groups
No but Contacts may be grouped
Yes
Yes
No
Hashtags
No
No
Yes
Yes
Email
Mail and iCloud
Messenger
Gmail
No
Instant Messaging
Messages
Facebook Messenger
Messenger
Tweets
Video Chat
FaceTime
Yes
Hangouts
external video chat links
Real-time Feeds
No
Yes
Yes
Yes
Location Sharing
Find Friends
No
No
No
Location “Check-in”
No
No but update could include location
No but update could include location
No but update could include location
Reminders for Events (i.e. birthdays)
Yes, if information added to Contacts
Yes
via Google Calendar
No
Digital Photography Sharing
Yes but not released on all hardware
Yes
Yes
Yes
Web Page Recommendations
No
Like button
+1 button
Tweet button
App Recommendations or Links
Link Maker
Like button
+1 button
Tweet button
Book Recommendations or Links
Link Maker
Like button
+1 button
Tweet button
Movie Recommendations or Links
Link Maker
Like button
+1 button
Tweet button
Music Recommendations or Links
Link Maker & Ping
Like button
+1 button
Tweet button
TV Show Recommendations or Links
Link Maker
Like button
+1 button
Tweet button
Multiplayer game Matchmaking
Yes
Yes
Yes
No
Social Gaming
Game Center
Yes
Games
No
Game Achievements
Yes
Yes via Facebook Updates
?
No
Leader Boards
Yes
Yes via Facebook Updates
?
No
Trending
Via iTunes Store “What’s Hot”
Yes
Ripples and Sparks
Yes
Revenue Model
Hardware, iTunes Store
Ad supported B2B & B2C lead generation
Ad supported B2B & B2C lead generation
Ad supported B2B & B2C lead generation
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro
As I have already stated, Apple has a social network. Apple's social network "just works" so well and is so well integrated into Apple products and services that you forget you are using their social network. Apple social networking users invest in Apple products and services because they like those products and services thus they purchase more products and services which furthers vendor lock-in. We know that users invest in Apple products and services due to the well documented customer satisfaction rates, customer retention rates as well as the market share of Apple products and services, especially the iTunes Store.
The key to the success of Apple's social networking is the persistent, ubiquitous but non-intrusive nature of the interactions. For example, Messages was simply integrated into the existing SMS/MMS app, multiplayer matchmaking is offered within many games via API. The concept of logging into a website or opening an app specifically to send an update or tweet doesn't exist, instead the interaction is part of the typical workflow for using a feature or accomplishing that function.
While I appreciate the thought and effort that went into that analysis, I think you're missing a key element of a "social network." Think about Facebook, LinkedIn, and Twitter, for example. What are they all great at that is fairly revolutionary? Introducing me to/letting me learn about "friends of friends" (to use the Facebook terminology). I believe that's the KEY ingredient to a "social network" and Apple has nothing (?) in that area. Not saying they should, just saying they don't. With Facebook I (eventually) reconnect with almost everyone I knew in high school and college. With LinkedIn, I make professional contacts and extend my professional network. With Twitter I learn about people who are interested in the same things/people I am. Does the Apple ecosystem do any of those things?
Note: this doesn't mean I think Apple SHOULD get into the social networking business. Just like they need not get into oil drilling or banking just because other companies are doing it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by markbyrn
So make a cheap device that looks like an iDevice with a Facebook skinned version of Android. Wonder what he'll call it - the Facebook Fire perhaps?
FacePhone
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit
FacePhone
The Zucker.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro
... Apple does have a social network although we can discuss whether or not "wildly popular" is a valid description.
The point of creating a social network isn't to "whore out your users," that is the revenue model (for many social networks) although the difference is functionally indistinguishable to consumers. ...
I think we mostly agree but there is a lot of vagueness as to what a "social network" is being defined as here. I would agree that iCloud users or MobileMe before them are sort of a social network, but on the other hand all the social networks we've seen lately that are blatantly referred to as such by the media and the users, are quite completely different from what Apple is doing. That's why I like what Apple is doing.
If you sign up for iCloud to sync your documents, are you really "joining a social network" in the same sense as joining Facebook or Google+ signing up for MySpace in the past? I'm not so sure that's really an accurate description even though both are networks of users that have at least some "social" tools available to them.
Google in particular spends a lot of time and energy trying to purposely trick users, who "joined" Google only in the sense that they signed up for email or document sharing like MobileMe/iCloud ... into joining Google plus as well. So it seems that they at least differentiate between these two types of users. Those that just wanted one of the free services and those who want to join the "Google community."
I completely disagree with any attempts to pretend that social networks don't "whore out their users" however. It is as you say their main revenue model.
There is a fine difference between "users" and "customers" that people don't always appreciate. Google's users are the people that sign up for Google plus, Google's customers however are the advertisers. The same goes for every classic "social network" I've ever heard of.
Social networks "whore out their users," because their users are not their customers.
Apple's users on the other hand, are also it's customers. It provides service to these customers, some of these have a social component, but until they start selling us down the river like Google and Facebook, I don't think they can be called a "social network."
It's almost as if the very definition of the modern (online) "social network" is this specific disregard for the people using the network.
Quote:
Originally Posted by malax
While I appreciate the thought and effort that went into that analysis, I think you're missing a key element of a "social network." Think about Facebook, LinkedIn, and Twitter, for example. What are they all great at that is fairly revolutionary? Introducing me to/letting me learn about "friends of friends" (to use the Facebook terminology). I believe that's the KEY ingredient to a "social network" and Apple has nothing (?) in that area. Not saying they should, just saying they don't. With Facebook I (eventually) reconnect with almost everyone I knew in high school and college. With LinkedIn, I make professional contacts and extend my professional network. With Twitter I learn about people who are interested in the same things/people I am. Does the Apple ecosystem do any of those things?
Note: this doesn't mean I think Apple SHOULD get into the social networking business. Just like they need not get into oil drilling or banking just because other companies are doing it.
Where is that key ingredient in Twitter, I must have missed the "friends of friends" discovery feature. Apple has a different revenue model and customer relationship. Social networks have existed since the introduction of modern man, social networking services simply redefined the meaning of social network. The problem is that "friends of friends" doesn't necessarily create intimacy or trust. Invasive social networks have a lifecycle but a persistent, ubiquitous, non-invasive social network doesn't necessarily have a lifecycle since social networking is an invisible feature of a completely different workflow.
An interesting factor to consider is longevity. Once the novelty of social networking disappears, only advertisements and social discoverability and sharing are left with the invasion of privacy concerns.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ankleskater
Facebook and Apple should patch up their differences so that Ping becomes integrated into FB, and FB becomes integrated into iOS.
No, no, no, no...I absolutely do not want Facecrap integrated into my phone. I don't like it and never will. I can understand Twitter, but not Facebook. Facebook is too intrusive for my liking.
I do like the idea of Apple integrating their own social network into their phones. In someways, they're already starting with messages. They should continue to build upon that. The issue they'd run into though is trying to get users to use it if they were to develop something. Making one is easy, getting people to use it is the hard part. Even though Facebook sucks and people don't like it, they still use it. If Apple could create a paradigm shift in the social network that would be huge for them.
I think they should buy Twitter to be honest. They already have a backbone and good entrance into this area. I think Apple could improve upon it, though they'd most likely only use it in their own products.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
It's almost as if the very definition of the modern (online) "social network" is this specific disregard for the people using the network.
Agreed. I think there will eventually be pushback against this model. Facebook has extremely low customer satisfaction.
This is why I think Apple hasn't created an explicit social network and instead relies upon implicit social networking (FaceTime, Game Center, iMessage, iTunes, Ping, etc.)
To the point of the thread..
I find it funny that when I went to login here at AppleInsider Facebook Connect was sitting there. To me that's the real reason for a phone. Think of all the sites that use Facebook Connect for logging in or posting. That connection will be automatic with a Facebook Phone. Users would even more likely use their Facebook logins for all these sites which gives Zuck more info and more timely, pertinent ads. Once you agree to the Terms and Conditions Zuck will know everything you do in the mobile world. Oh you called AT&T customer service? Here's their Facebook page.
Sounds like the Google model to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by malax
While I appreciate the thought and effort that went into that analysis, I think you're missing a key element of a "social network." Think about Facebook, LinkedIn, and Twitter, for example. What are they all great at that is fairly revolutionary? Introducing me to/letting me learn about "friends of friends" (to use the Facebook terminology). I believe that's the KEY ingredient to a "social network" and Apple has nothing (?) in that area. Not saying they should, just saying they don't. With Facebook I (eventually) reconnect with almost everyone I knew in high school and college. With LinkedIn, I make professional contacts and extend my professional network. With Twitter I learn about people who are interested in the same things/people I am. Does the Apple ecosystem do any of those things?
Note: this doesn't mean I think Apple SHOULD get into the social networking business. Just like they need not get into oil drilling or banking just because other companies are doing it.
Agreed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro
. The problem is that "friends of friends" doesn't necessarily create intimacy or trust...
Sure but Apple could implement "friends of friends" differently, the problem with Facebook is that they almost force people to share as much as possible. Whereas, an Apple take on it would allow simple opt out, or rather even, opt-in.
That, I believe, is key here. Opt-in rather than a hidden and constantly changing opt-out (that often doesn't even opt-out properly).
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp
Quote:
Originally Posted by djkfisher
No matter how you cut it, the guy is now a billionaire. That is a lot of money and a job well done.
If only people would give Steve Jobs the same credit. But they don't.
Everybody treats Apple and Steve like some kind of also-ran, when the facts are quite different. Jealousy is the explanation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by junkdrop1
too little too late.
I predict epic fail.
Mimicking Google's failed attempt at ubiquity via social engineering won't lead to any success.
Imagine a phone that tracks your every text and voice message as a post on facespook. Stupid.
F
What do you think Google/Android does?
They already mine your email for marketing info via Gmail.
They already mine your voice mail, texts, who you are calling via Google Voice.
They are already tracking your location with Android
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaarrrgggh
Who would want to buy a Facebook phone?! Does not compute.
Facebook phone could make sense in theory:
Contacts = Friend list
Apps = Facebook apps
Messages = Facebook messages
Calendar = Facebook events
Video Calls = Skype
Notifications Center = triggered by messages, news feeds, wall posts, friend status changes, etc
I can imagine for people who literally live their lives in FB (having all friends and relatives signed up too, constantly updating their status and posting pictures of themselves or their puppies) this could be really convenient.
Disclaimer 1: I do not have FB account except the fake one for app development.
Disclaimer 2: The day iPhone has integration with Facebook I will stop buying the iPhone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jason98
Disclaimer 2: The day iPhone has integration with Facebook I will stop buying the iPhone.
Yeah, because you're certainly forced to use that…
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Yeah, because you're certainly forced to use that…
What about a Facebook integrated iPhone with a 4.5" screen.
j/k
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit
What about a Facebook integrated iPhone with a 4.5" screen.
What kind of a retard would want a Facebook phone?
That's all people need, yet another phone, as if there aren't hundreds to choose between already in the crowded market place, mostly filled with junky Android phones.
And even better, a facebook phone, where you will probably get raped up the ass, and have all of your info stolen, by an overvalued company that relies on advertising for it's revenue.
What about all of the suckers who got zuckered in to buying that lame FB stock recently? These naive, foolish and greedy people got what they deserved. Simple math is apparently way too complicated for those zuckers. Talk about an over valued company. I'm glad to see the stock crashing down. A fair price for FB is around $10. Maybe I'd even buy a few shares myself, if it drops down to that price.
Facebook is just a website. Websites come and go. I imagine that the facebook phone will be a third rate product, just like the Amazon Kindle Fire. A product made by a company that has zero experience in ever making any hardware. The probability is extremely high that the facebook phone will be complete fucking crap. And that is my two cents.