All established markets before Apple. Albeit they were small and some (tablet) were kind of non-existent, but there was a market of them all before Apple.
Which, if you'll read my post, is what I said. They were not established markets.
27" and 36" are both far too small for a TV set. Anything below 50" is currently being sold as "small."
That's subjective. And it all depends on the layout and viewing distance. What's good for one may not be for another. I have a 37" and sit 12' away and think it suits the bill. Maybe could be a sidge larger but it works fine for me.
hasn't apple's motto always been if they can't improve on something they won't do it? I'm excited to see what they do in the TV space. Whenever I think they can't surprise or wow me they do.
I've done it, you must be on ATV 1.0 or something.
Which, if you'll read my post, is what I said. They were not established markets.
Oh I read it, still disagree.
Palm, blackberry and the equivalent Motorola smart phones were all the rage before the iPhone. Very established market. Not to mention cell phones in general.
Mp3 players were all over the place before the iPod. I'll even go as far to say even cd players with mp3 capability was quite established prior to the iPod. Counts as a digital music player.
Granted tablets were around but not huge unless you count the ones that did full OS. So I'll give you that one
To me, one can call a market establish by saturation, it doesn't have to be the highest of quality but if there's enough of it out there, it can still be an established pile of sh!t
To me, one can call a market establish by saturation, it doesn't have to be the highest of quality but if there's enough of it out there, it can still be an established pile of sh!t
And none of the three markets you listed meet that criteria, which happens to be my criteria for determining established markets and the crux of the entire argument.
Everyone that wants a TV has a TV. This was nowhere near the case for PMPs, smartphones, or tablets.
And none of the three markets you listed meet that criteria, which happens to be my criteria for determining established markets and the crux of the entire argument.
Everyone that wants a TV has a TV. This was nowhere near the case for PMPs, smartphones, or tablets.
You keep making my case for me… Either we're on the same side and you're making a joke that I'm not getting or you're not reading the links you're sending me.
And none of the three markets you listed meet that criteria, which happens to be my criteria for determining established markets and the crux of the entire argument.
Everyone that wants a TV has a TV. This was nowhere near the case for PMPs, smartphones, or tablets.
MP3 players were all over the place. Before the iPhone, smartphones were of little use to most people, the internet was dreadful and most of the apps were business oriented. Apple introduced a smartphone for evekdryone not just businessmen.
You keep making my case for me… Either we're on the same side and you're making a joke that I'm not getting or you're not reading the links you're sending me.
Your original statement was that Apple has never entered an established market.
I think we disagree on the definition of an established market.
The definition I sent was clear to me. "a product or service that is accepted by the majority of organizations to be necessary...". In short, a product that has a good following already. Which my point exactly. You might be thinking these products were still in the "emerging market" phase, but I argue against. There is no time frame for a market to become established, unless you can google one up for me.
Smart phones were in mainstream sice 2002, 5 years before the iPhone. I'd say that's pretty established. BB, Palm and MS phones were everything before the iPhone. Especially in the enterprise market. For a product to take over in enterprise, it's pretty well established.
Mp3 players, including cd/mp3 since 1998...heck even my 1998 Sony DVD player played digital audio files...all in mainstream and established before the iPod. Creative Nomad or Sony Mp3 walkman not big enough players in the market? I'd say the ability to play digital content in a portable manner had been available on many devices prior to the iPod. Perhaps no major battles for #1 before the iPod, but that's a technicality. The fact is they were well established. Jobs was even quoted in his bio with something like (to paraphrase): 'there were already mp3 players out there but they all sucked'.
So I'd say to state that Apple has never entered an established market would be false.
So here's one thing I don't think anybody has talked about yet. Let's say that Apple does being selling a range of TV's, whatever features they might have, that are in the 42"-55" range. Now the boxes for those TV's are going to be fairly large so how are they going to expect customers to get them home from the stores. Most of the Apple stores are in malls or in locations where parking is not necessarily close to the entrance to the store. Have you ever tried to lug a 27" iMac through a Mall to the parking lot? Can you imagine trying to lug a 55" TV to your car?!?
Now the boxes for those TV's are going to be fairly large so how are they going to expect customers to get them home from the stores. Most of the Apple stores are in malls or in locations where parking is not necessarily close to the entrance to the store. Have you ever tried to lug a 27" iMac through a Mall to the parking lot? Can you imagine trying to lug a 55" TV to your car?!?
Reason number 86 why a 1 lb. box makes far more sense.
So here's one thing I don't think anybody has talked about yet. Let's say that Apple does being selling a range of TV's, whatever features they might have, that are in the 42"-55" range. Now the boxes for those TV's are going to be fairly large so how are they going to expect customers to get them home from the stores. Most of the Apple stores are in malls or in locations where parking is not necessarily close to the entrance to the store. Have you ever tried to lug a 27" iMac through a Mall to the parking lot? Can you imagine trying to lug a 55" TV to your car?!?
The Apple store at the mall in my home town has an adjacent parking garage (4 floors). The Apple store makes use of carts/dollys to transfer the large iMac boxes to and from the cars. But I agree, most boxes for a 42"-56" tv will not fit in the average 4-door passenger car and might be a squeeze in a small SUV. I had to have my 37" Panny delivered to my house since the box wouldn't fit in my then Civic. But, this is Apple, they do come up with creative packaging, but nothing certainly to reduced the size of the device itself. Maybe this will be shipped direct from Apple and not the store, but ht would prevent in-store purchase so they may jut call a local white-glove service.
Reason number 86 why a 1 lb. box makes far more sense.
I've been 50/50 on the integrated monitor. From an economic stand-point I'd rather the STB. I like my current components and would rather have the choice.
But, after learning about how apple calibrates their monitors prior to shipping and seeing how much better my digital content (especially photos) look on my iPad compared to my TV and high res monitor (even after trying to match calibration), I'd almost rather have the apple TV display.
How can anyone say that the MP3 and cell phone markets weren't established before Apple entered them. Apple gets into markets where it thinks it can provide a superior product/service. They weren't emerging markets; most of the products were crap and Apple said we can do better. If they think they can build a better TV they will, if not then they won't.
How can anyone say that the MP3 and cell phone markets weren't established before Apple entered them. Apple gets into markets where it thinks it can provide a superior product/service. They weren't emerging markets; most of the products were crap and Apple said we can do better. If they think they can build a better TV they will, if not then they won't.
Here's what Tim Cook said earlier this year about ATV: "always thought there was something there, and that if we kept following our intuition and kept pulling that string, we might find something larger." He also said, that Apple needs "something that could go more main market for [the Apple TV] to be a serious category."
... These rumors wouldn't persist if Cook was leading us down another path...
That's a good point. I think Apple is definitely going to go for market share and continue making the Apple TV boxes with the tv set. There are a lot of things that could give it mass market appeal, including FaceTime and close integration of iDevices. Something that Apple is in a great place to do is a native karaoke app; it would be a huge hit, and for the duets, Siri could always chime in.
So here's one thing I don't think anybody has talked about yet. Let's say that Apple does being selling a range of TV's, whatever features they might have, that are in the 42"-55" range. Now the boxes for those TV's are going to be fairly large so how are they going to expect customers to get them home from the stores. Most of the Apple stores are in malls or in locations where parking is not necessarily close to the entrance to the store. Have you ever tried to lug a 27" iMac through a Mall to the parking lot? Can you imagine trying to lug a 55" TV to your car?!?
They're going to be OLED mats that you roll up and tuck under your arm and double as yoga mats.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1
Smartphones?
Tablets?
Mp3 players?
All established markets before Apple. Albeit they were small and some (tablet) were kind of non-existent, but there was a market of them all before Apple.
Which, if you'll read my post, is what I said. They were not established markets.
That's subjective. And it all depends on the layout and viewing distance. What's good for one may not be for another. I have a 37" and sit 12' away and think it suits the bill. Maybe could be a sidge larger but it works fine for me.
I've done it, you must be on ATV 1.0 or something.
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1
I've done it, you must be on ATV 1.0 or something.
You may have quoted the wrong post. Did you mean the one about being able to buy things from the Apple TV?
Palm, blackberry and the equivalent Motorola smart phones were all the rage before the iPhone. Very established market. Not to mention cell phones in general.
Mp3 players were all over the place before the iPod. I'll even go as far to say even cd players with mp3 capability was quite established prior to the iPod. Counts as a digital music player.
Granted tablets were around but not huge unless you count the ones that did full OS. So I'll give you that one
To me, one can call a market establish by saturation, it doesn't have to be the highest of quality but if there's enough of it out there, it can still be an established pile of sh!t
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1
To me, one can call a market establish by saturation, it doesn't have to be the highest of quality but if there's enough of it out there, it can still be an established pile of sh!t
And none of the three markets you listed meet that criteria, which happens to be my criteria for determining established markets and the crux of the entire argument.
Everyone that wants a TV has a TV. This was nowhere near the case for PMPs, smartphones, or tablets.
I disagree still :P
Let me google you a couple things:
Established Market=[=http://www.google.com.hk/search?hl=en&newwindow=1&safe=strict&client=safari&tbo=u&q=established+market&tbs=dfn:1&sa=X&ei=mu7ET_S1A4O6iQfBqenDCg&ved=0CFkQkQ4&biw=768&bih=900][/]
PMP=[=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portable_media_player][/]
Smartphone history (re: BB, Palm! Windows CE=[=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_phones][/]
Quote:
Originally Posted by antkm1
I disagree still :P
Established Market=[=http://www.google.com.hk/search?hl=en&newwindow=1&safe=strict&client=safari&tbo=u&q=established+market&tbs=dfn:1&sa=X&ei=mu7ET_S1A4O6iQfBqenDCg&ved=0CFkQkQ4&biw=768&bih=900][/]
You keep making my case for me… Either we're on the same side and you're making a joke that I'm not getting or you're not reading the links you're sending me.
MP3 players were all over the place. Before the iPhone, smartphones were of little use to most people, the internet was dreadful and most of the apps were business oriented. Apple introduced a smartphone for evekdryone not just businessmen.
Your original statement was that Apple has never entered an established market.
I think we disagree on the definition of an established market.
The definition I sent was clear to me. "a product or service that is accepted by the majority of organizations to be necessary...". In short, a product that has a good following already. Which my point exactly. You might be thinking these products were still in the "emerging market" phase, but I argue against. There is no time frame for a market to become established, unless you can google one up for me.
Smart phones were in mainstream sice 2002, 5 years before the iPhone. I'd say that's pretty established. BB, Palm and MS phones were everything before the iPhone. Especially in the enterprise market. For a product to take over in enterprise, it's pretty well established.
Mp3 players, including cd/mp3 since 1998...heck even my 1998 Sony DVD player played digital audio files...all in mainstream and established before the iPod. Creative Nomad or Sony Mp3 walkman not big enough players in the market? I'd say the ability to play digital content in a portable manner had been available on many devices prior to the iPod. Perhaps no major battles for #1 before the iPod, but that's a technicality. The fact is they were well established. Jobs was even quoted in his bio with something like (to paraphrase): 'there were already mp3 players out there but they all sucked'.
So I'd say to state that Apple has never entered an established market would be false.
(disagree)
So here's one thing I don't think anybody has talked about yet. Let's say that Apple does being selling a range of TV's, whatever features they might have, that are in the 42"-55" range. Now the boxes for those TV's are going to be fairly large so how are they going to expect customers to get them home from the stores. Most of the Apple stores are in malls or in locations where parking is not necessarily close to the entrance to the store. Have you ever tried to lug a 27" iMac through a Mall to the parking lot? Can you imagine trying to lug a 55" TV to your car?!?
Quote:
Originally Posted by troehl
Now the boxes for those TV's are going to be fairly large so how are they going to expect customers to get them home from the stores. Most of the Apple stores are in malls or in locations where parking is not necessarily close to the entrance to the store. Have you ever tried to lug a 27" iMac through a Mall to the parking lot? Can you imagine trying to lug a 55" TV to your car?!?
Reason number 86 why a 1 lb. box makes far more sense.
The Apple store at the mall in my home town has an adjacent parking garage (4 floors). The Apple store makes use of carts/dollys to transfer the large iMac boxes to and from the cars. But I agree, most boxes for a 42"-56" tv will not fit in the average 4-door passenger car and might be a squeeze in a small SUV. I had to have my 37" Panny delivered to my house since the box wouldn't fit in my then Civic. But, this is Apple, they do come up with creative packaging, but nothing certainly to reduced the size of the device itself. Maybe this will be shipped direct from Apple and not the store, but ht would prevent in-store purchase so they may jut call a local white-glove service.
But, after learning about how apple calibrates their monitors prior to shipping and seeing how much better my digital content (especially photos) look on my iPad compared to my TV and high res monitor (even after trying to match calibration), I'd almost rather have the apple TV display.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
How can anyone say that the MP3 and cell phone markets weren't established before Apple entered them. Apple gets into markets where it thinks it can provide a superior product/service. They weren't emerging markets; most of the products were crap and Apple said we can do better. If they think they can build a better TV they will, if not then they won't.
True Dat
That's a good point. I think Apple is definitely going to go for market share and continue making the Apple TV boxes with the tv set. There are a lot of things that could give it mass market appeal, including FaceTime and close integration of iDevices. Something that Apple is in a great place to do is a native karaoke app; it would be a huge hit, and for the duets, Siri could always chime in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
... If they think they can build a better TV and make a large enough profit from it they will, if not then they won't.
Fixed it for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by troehl
So here's one thing I don't think anybody has talked about yet. Let's say that Apple does being selling a range of TV's, whatever features they might have, that are in the 42"-55" range. Now the boxes for those TV's are going to be fairly large so how are they going to expect customers to get them home from the stores. Most of the Apple stores are in malls or in locations where parking is not necessarily close to the entrance to the store. Have you ever tried to lug a 27" iMac through a Mall to the parking lot? Can you imagine trying to lug a 55" TV to your car?!?
They're going to be OLED mats that you roll up and tuck under your arm and double as yoga mats.