RIM stock falls to lowest level in eight years on bearish trading

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  • Reply 21 of 40
    pedromartinspedromartins Posts: 1,333member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post



    "$1, Bob."

    I think RiM's value is now lower than Apple's was when they were at their worst. I'd like to think they have a chance to crawl back up and carve out a useful niche but I see absolutely no avenue where they succeed independently of being bought out and just having their brand name in use for enterprise services.


    why not try something else besides smartphones? they still are profitable in that area, so let's clean the room (so they can be even more profitable) and invest in something else. they have a few years left with the current business, right? I can't imagine all of those 50+ executives stop using a physical qwerty.


     


    why not an 13/11inch laptop and focus on one thing, like extraordinary battery life? take for example the macbook's pro current design. take the superdrive and cram a huge battery there and the latest AMD processor.


    why not some kind of linux running a BB10 "flavor" with their nice characteristics and them create a deep integration with their blackberry line?


    wouldn't it sell?


     


    why can't they understand what apple teached to everyone? "adapt" you fool. create your own strengths and, with time, make them play your own game.

  • Reply 22 of 40
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 19,418member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post


     


    In all fairness HP has a long history of buying firms and then mismanaging them into the ground.  


    We still don't know what would have happened if someone competent had bought Palm and actually stood behind the product for more than a nanosecond.  :)



    Dell has a better history of acquisitions?

  • Reply 23 of 40
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 19,418member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mac.World View Post



    RIMM won't be sold to a foreign company. Canada has a law that prevents such sales unless it's in the interest of Canada. RIMM can be sold outright for patents and dissolved, but it's highly doubtful the Canadian gov't would allow a company like Dell to buy it and continue operations.


    Care to name a Canadian company that could salvage RIMM for something more than a US company might?


     


    If the Canadian government plans on such silly stuff, that'll surely be the death knell for RIMM.

  • Reply 24 of 40
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    why can't they understand what apple teached to everyone? "adapt" you fool. create your own strengths and, with time, make them play your own game.

    They know what they need to do it's how to do it that evades them and others.
  • Reply 25 of 40
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,902member
    You're joking, right?
    Not at all!
    Nortel was worth $4.5 billion for its patent portfolio.
    Remember Nortel had a vast and valuable patent portfolio. A patent portfolio that was in demand. So there has to be demand for your technology, in this regard I dont think anybody, consumer nor business, has much desire for what RIM owns.
    MotoMobile was worth $12.5 billion for its patent portfolio. RIM has to be worth at least $800 million to a $ 1 billion for the same reason.

    Patents are only as valuable as people are willing to pay for them. Or more importantly as valuable as there is demand for the technology patented. People will not pay for patents that don't support technology that is in vogue. It is pretty much the same problem Kodak has. Kodak sees its technology as being worth billions, the rest of the world sees an old and expiring patent portfolio with a few worthwhile buys. In the same vain I'm sure management at RIM sees massive value in their patents, but I seriously doubt you will see the feeding frenzy that surrounded the Nortel sale.

    Frankly I haven't followed RIM enough to know what might tweak the interest of deep pockets there. I just haven't seen the same interest in the technical community as I have with other bankruptcy. If there was fresh blood at RIM the sharks would already be circling.
  • Reply 26 of 40
    mac.worldmac.world Posts: 340member
    Care to name a Canadian company that could salvage RIMM for something more than a US company might?

    If the Canadian government plans on such silly stuff, that'll surely be the death knell for RIMM.

    Canadian PM has publicly stated that there will be no bailout for RIM and the foreign-takeover legislation prevents a foreign acquisition, so RIM's only hope is a partnership in which a company like Google invests, but keeps RIM seperate or liquidation. Stock price is sailing to $1 a share and will be coming off the NASDAQ soon, so RIM is running out of time to get a serious partnership.
  • Reply 27 of 40
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,902member
    RIMs technology painted them into a corner, while the rest of the industry left the building.
    why not try something else besides smartphones? they still are profitable in that area, so let's clean the room (so they can be even more profitable) and invest in something else. they have a few years left with the current business, right? I can't imagine all of those 50+ executives stop using a physical qwerty.
    The current issue is the lack of leadership and vision.

    For example RIM had a few good ideas for their tablet, it was a device I had high hopes for. The execution however was absolutely terrible. Plus they had that issue with being painted into a corner. One example was or is RIM mail accounts being tied to a device, thus no mail on their tablet.
    why not an 13/11inch laptop and focus on one thing, like extraordinary battery life? take for example the macbook's pro current design. take the superdrive and cram a huge battery there and the latest AMD processor.
    if RIM couldn't pull off a tablet they would have zero chance with a new technology laptop.
    why not some kind of linux running a BB10 "flavor" with their nice characteristics and them create a deep integration with their blackberry line?
    wouldn't it sell?
    Integration can be too deep.
    why can't they understand what apple teached to everyone? "adapt" you fool. create your own strengths and, with time, make them play your own game.

    Denial.

    It has been mentioned in the press that RIM engineers where shocked when the first iPhone debuted. They literally couldn't believe such a device was possible. I take this as a sign that at various levels in the organization there was a culture of low expectations. Such a place inevitably attracts the less than stellar. Apple in contrast is a very demanding place to work as such it attracts the highly capable and motivated.
  • Reply 28 of 40
    stourquestourque Posts: 354member
    I keep thinking about all those RIM jobs.
  • Reply 29 of 40
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 19,418member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mac.World View Post





    .... coming off the NASDAQ soon, so RIM is running out of time to get a serious partnership.


    LOL.


     


    'Serious partnership'? For what, exactly, would someone want a partnership with RIMM?

  • Reply 30 of 40
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 19,418member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Stourque View Post



    I keep thinking about all those RIM jobs.


    You should have been, instead, thinking about the incompetent management starting a few years ago. If it weren't for them, you wouldn't be worrying about the jobs there.


     


    This was train wreck in super-slow motion that many, many people saw coming a long time ago.


     


    They have nobody to blame but themselves.

  • Reply 31 of 40
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    You should have been, instead, thinking about the incompetent management starting a few years ago. If it weren't for them, you wouldn't be worrying about the jobs there.

    This was train wreck in super-slow motion that many, many people saw coming a long time ago.

    They have nobody to blame but themselves.

    While all true I had been impressed with RiM's ability to turn a healthy profit post-iPhone where others couldn't for years after I excepted them to suffer. There stock was even doing well for much longer than I expected. The best I can describe it is RiM's management were great at steering that ship in the right direction but had no idea how to keep it from sinking. IOW, their management had no idea how to hire, focus and/or see engineering needs, only how to managing what they had.
  • Reply 32 of 40
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 19,418member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post





    While all true I had been impressed with RiM's ability to turn a healthy profit post-iPhone where others couldn't for years after I excepted them to suffer. There stock was even doing well for much longer than I expected. The best I can describe it is RiM's management were great at steering that ship in the right direction but had no idea how to keep it from sinking. IOW, their management had no idea how to hire, focus and/or see engineering needs, only how to managing what they had.


    If they only managed what they had -- i.e., their existing infrastructure and clientele, steadily and carefully managed in decline to milk cash flows for possibly many years -- they would have created a lot more value. See an example of a superb analysis here: http://aswathdamodaran.blogspot.com/2011/12/living-within-your-limits-thoughts-on.html

  • Reply 33 of 40
    mac.worldmac.world Posts: 340member
    You should have been, instead, thinking about the incompetent management starting a few years ago. If it weren't for them, you wouldn't be worrying about the jobs there.

    This was train wreck in super-slow motion that many, many people saw coming a long time ago.

    They have nobody to blame but themselves.

    LOL. You obviously don't know what a Rim Job is. Stourque was referring to another kinda job, a sometimes dirty job.
  • Reply 34 of 40

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Stourque View Post



    I keep thinking about all those RIM jobs.


     


    There are tons of openings in cutting timber and trawling north of the Arctic Circle. Eh?

  • Reply 35 of 40
    anantksundaramanantksundaram Posts: 19,418member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Mac.World View Post





    LOL. You obviously don't know what a Rim Job is. Stourque was referring to another kinda job, a sometimes dirty job.


    Yeah, cute, but I hate to disappoint you. I've heard of it before.


     


    Care to tell me how it pertains to anything that RIM is going through? Seriously?

  • Reply 36 of 40
    mac.worldmac.world Posts: 340member
    Yeah, cute, but I hate to disappoint you. I've heard of it before.

    Care to tell me how it pertains to anything that RIM is going through? Seriously?
    Looking it up on the internet, after the fact, doesn't count young padawan.
  • Reply 37 of 40
    andysolandysol Posts: 2,506member
    Dell has a better history of acquisitions?

    Perot Systems was an extremely good acquisition- while already successful, it is now even better. Not sure what other failures or successes theyve had outside of that.

    Michael dell- like him or not, is an extremely smart guy. More than could be said about the old co-CEOs of this group....
  • Reply 38 of 40
    uguysrnutsuguysrnuts Posts: 459member


    You're right. Mike would at least nice enough to buy RIM and then give the nonexistent money back to the shareholders.


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Andysol View Post





    Perot Systems was an extremely good acquisition- while already successful, it is now even better. Not sure what other failures or successes theyve had outside of that.

    Michael dell- like him or not, is an extremely smart guy. More than could be said about the old co-CEOs of this group....

  • Reply 39 of 40
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member


    They should suspend trading of all RIM stock.

  • Reply 40 of 40
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    Yeah, cute, but I hate to disappoint you. I've heard of it before.


     


    Care to tell me how it pertains to anything that RIM is going through? Seriously?



     


    Canada's oil sands. That's where the money is. Not RIM jobs. (Yes, I know what that means)

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