26% larger 16:9 iPhone screen would retain single-hand operability

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Comments

  • Reply 101 of 126
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bmason1270 View Post

    Tallest, common, he is right with how many people actually hold their phone.


     


    How can he possibly know that? His words haven't been my experience, nor what I've seen.

  • Reply 102 of 126
    hkzhkz Posts: 190member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    How can he possibly know that? His words haven't been my experience, nor what I've seen.



     


     


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


    Absolutely no one can actually hold a phone in that position.


     



     


    So you can say I can't do something without possibly knowing that I can, but I can't say that nearly all smartphone users don't hold their phones with a death grip because I haven't seen what you have? Hypocrite much? Care to provide any evidence that I can't possibly hold my phone in a way that you don't and still be able to manipulate my phone better than you can? If you hold and use an iPhone like the article says, or how I showed in that second picture I posted, then you are most definitely doing it wrong. You're actually making it harder to use holding it that way, as bmason pointed out, unless you have hands like a small child. Holding it that way makes the lower 1/4 of the phone closest to the hand almost useless because you can't get your finger there easily and you have to change your grip to do so. This article is based on stupid assumption and logical fallacy. It states:  "If your thumb can't reach the other side, you might be forced to use both hands." Or you could change your damn grip instead of squeezing the phone like it was an orange to be juiced. There is literally no logic or critical thinking in this article.

  • Reply 103 of 126
    bmason1270bmason1270 Posts: 258member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    How can he possibly know that? His words haven't been my experience, nor what I've seen.



    I just handed my phone to a person who does not have a smart phone and asked them to unlock my phone using one hand. They struggled until they eventuially held it the way HKZ illustrated.


     


    People do in fact hold the phone as his picture illustrates, myself included. That fact however, does not mean that the current form factor of the iPhone is not a better one handed alternative than a larger phone.


     


    In fact it illustrates that the actual range of the thumb is less than people actually believe, and that in order to navigate a larger phone than the current iPhone requires more "Pinky Shifting" of the device to achieve a comfortable range of coverage. The actual comfortable, accurate and usabel range of the thumb is actually less than people think. They are only covering the larger phone with one hand because they are actually shifting the phone slightly and don't even realize that they are doing it.

  • Reply 104 of 126
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by HKZ View Post

    So you can say I can't do something without possibly knowing that I can, but I can't say that nearly all smartphone users don't hold their phones with a death grip because I haven't seen what you have? Hypocrite much?


     


    There's a difference between the way you're depicted holding it and the way I was talking about in that quote. You've taken that quote out of context and are using it incorrectly.


     


    As a phone, your second picture is how I'd use my iPhone as a phone. Using the screen, your first picture is how I use my iPhone. The picture in the article is about halfway in between those, and holding it as depicted is not detrimental to the screen's use.


     


    As I've said, I've seen people use it the way he claims no one does.

  • Reply 105 of 126
    bmason1270bmason1270 Posts: 258member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    There's a difference between the way you're depicted holding it and the way I was talking about in that quote. You've taken that quote out of context and are using it incorrectly.


     


    As a phone, your second picture is how I'd use my iPhone as a phone. Using the screen, your first picture is how I use my iPhone. The picture in the article is about halfway in between those, and holding it as depicted is not detrimental to the screen's use.


     


    As I've said, I've seen people use it the way he claims no one does.



    Wow, that is a stretch. HKZ was, I believe, arguing against the diagrams, stating that, in fact, for navigating the phone, that is NOT how people usually hold the phone.


     


    He IS wrong in believing that since he holds the phone the way he does, as do many people, that the size of the phone is irrelevant as you get larger.

  • Reply 106 of 126
    gs turngs turn Posts: 30member


    Changing the Aspect Ratio and making the screen 4" by just making it taller only would make one handed operation MORE difficult that keeping the same Aspect Ratio and enlarging the screen to 4".


     


    Without changing the Aspect Ratio you reach a 4" screen by only increasing screen width 1/4" and screen height 5/16".  


     


    Changing the Aspect Ratio to 16:9 and enlarging the screen to 4" by adding only height increases the screen height by 1/2".


     


    Which is easier to reach 1/4" more in width or 1/2" more in height?  (especially the weird way that guy is holding the phone)


     


    If Apple is changing the Aspect Ratio and going to a taller screen at the same width it is NOT to support better one handed operation.

  • Reply 107 of 126
    bmason1270bmason1270 Posts: 258member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by GS Turn View Post


    Changing the Aspect Ratio and making the screen 4" by just making it taller only would make one handed operation MORE difficult that keeping the same Aspect Ratio and enlarging the screen to 4".


     


    Without changing the Aspect Ratio you reach a 4" screen by only increasing screen width 1/4" and screen height 5/16".  


     


    Changing the Aspect Ratio to 16:9 and enlarging the screen to 4" by adding only height increases the screen height by 1/2".


     


    Which is easier to reach 1/4" more in width or 1/2" more in height?  (especially the weird way that guy is holding the phone)


     


    If Apple is changing the Aspect Ratio and going to a taller screen at the same width it is NOT to support better one handed operation.



    It depends on the hand of course, but since most of the time you are touching predominatley the bottom half of the phone for most tasks, id say width is more important a consideration than height.

  • Reply 108 of 126
    hkzhkz Posts: 190member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bmason1270 View Post


    Wow, that is a stretch. HKZ was, I believe, arguing against the diagrams, stating that, in fact, for navigating the phone, that is NOT how people usually hold the phone.


     


    He IS wrong in believing that since he holds the phone the way he does, as do many people, that the size of the phone is irrelevant as you get larger.



     


    I'm not saying it is irrelevant as you get larger, it most definitely will change they way you hold it and how easy it is to use depending on the size of your hand. But as the diagrams are shown and the use case for having a larger phone, it is irrelevant because almost zero people use the phone, while not talking on it, in that way. So having a larger screen to navigate won't be such a severe usability problem as they say because using any touchscreen phone is made harder, much harder, if you hold it like that to navigate the screen. As the screen gets bigger holding it the way they show will make it harder, but it's completely irrelevant because no on holds any smartphone that way to navigate the screen. I have literally seen zero smartphone users grip any phone like that to do anything related to using the touchscreen. Zero. Talking on the phone I have but that varies with people because of comfort issues. I hold it like the second picture when it's held up to my head and talking on it sometimes, but when I'm reading twitter, playing a vertically oriented game, or typing out a text I most definitely do not hold it like I'm trying to choke the life out of it. A distinction that Tallest is obviously unable to make. I think having a larger screen will make a difference in how easily you can reach all corners of the screen, but AppleInsider is make a fallacious argument. No one uses that grip to navigate their phone and using that grip as an example to show that a bigger screen would make it harder is just flat out wrong.

  • Reply 109 of 126
    hkzhkz Posts: 190member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    There's a difference between the way you're depicted holding it and the way I was talking about in that quote. You've taken that quote out of context and are using it incorrectly.


     


    As a phone, your second picture is how I'd use my iPhone as a phone. Using the screen, your first picture is how I use my iPhone. The picture in the article is about halfway in between those, and holding it as depicted is not detrimental to the screen's use.


     


    As I've said, I've seen people use it the way he claims no one does.



     


    I've taken nothing out of context. You said that I can't hold my phone that way and that is completely untrue. The first picture I posted I can most definitely move my thumb 2 inches past the edge of it and have complete safe control over it.  I use my phone the same way you do in the second picture when using it as a phone as well, I'm not arguing against that. AppleInsider isn't saying that either, they are saying that using that grip, talking on the phone grip, is going to be harder when using the touchscreen. You don't use the touchscreen when using it as a phone so it makes absolutely zero sense to present that as an argument against the usability of a wider phone. You simply don't use it that way when touching the screen. Simple as that. Using it like they show in their picture is detrimental to the screens use because you can't comfortably use the lower half of the screen with your thumb, and as I showed in my picture people don't use it that way. Their argument is null and void. It's simply fallacious and wrong.

  • Reply 110 of 126
    bmason1270bmason1270 Posts: 258member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by HKZ View Post


     


    I'm not saying it is irrelevant as you get larger, it most definitely will change they way you hold it and how easy it is to use depending on the size of your hand. But as the diagrams are shown and the use case for having a larger phone, it is irrelevant because almost zero people use the phone, while not talking on it, in that way. So having a larger screen to navigate won't be such a severe usability problem as they say because using any touchscreen phone is made harder, much harder, if you hold it like that to navigate the screen. As the screen gets bigger holding it the way they show will make it harder, but it's completely irrelevant because no on holds any smartphone that way to navigate the screen. I have literally seen zero smartphone users grip any phone like that to do anything related to using the touchscreen. Zero. Talking on the phone I have but that varies with people because of comfort issues. I hold it like the second picture when it's held up to my head and talking on it sometimes, but when I'm reading twitter, playing a vertically oriented game, or typing out a text I most definitely do not hold it like I'm trying to choke the life out of it. A distinction that Tallest is obviously unable to make. I think having a larger screen will make a difference in how easily you can reach all corners of the screen, but AppleInsider is make a fallacious argument. No one uses that grip to navigate their phone and using that grip as an example to show that a bigger screen would make it harder is just flat out wrong.



    I agree with how you hold it for navigating. The diagram is WRONG in that regards. BUT you, and myself included, hold it that way because the rang of motion of our thumb cannot touch the interior portion of the screen if you used Kung Fu Grip on the phone.


     


    But, that "range of motion" has a limit and making the phone larger will make it harder on that range of motion, for both larger and smaller hands.


     


    Larger hands will have to adjust the phone to reach the interior of the phone and smaller hands will have trouble reaching the furthest edge of the phone, but particularily the interior corners.


     


    Everyone, is fixated on the furthest reach of the phone that your thumb can touch and completely discount how much your thumb can comfortably AND accurately bend inwards to touch the lower left hand corner of the phone. (Assuming you are holding it in your left hand.)


     


    People clearly have larger phones, and they seem to manage just fine, but there is nothing wrong for Apple to shoot for that sweet spot that meets comfort and functionality for most people. To say that the ability to design, with a wide range of hand sizes, a phone that can meet that with one hand use is not important or a goal I think is a wrong assumption on your part.

  • Reply 111 of 126
    hkzhkz Posts: 190member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bmason1270 View Post


    People clearly have larger phones, and they seem to manage just fine, but there is nothing wrong for Apple to shoot for that sweet spot that meets comfort and functionality for most people. To say that the ability to design, with a wide range of hand sizes, a phone that can meet that with one hand use is not important or a goal I think is a wrong assumption on your part.



     


    I don't disagree about shooting for a sweet spot at all. I'm also not dumb enough to think Apple isn't smart enough to realize this. They clearly have hit a very good medium with the iPhone and iPod. But we are talking very small fractions of an inch increase in size. If it were more than a quarter of an inch I could see it being an issue for those with small hands and people seem to be making a much bigger deal about this than is necessary or warranted. This article being the prime example. The iPhone is wonderfully designed but they are using a fallacious argument to go against making the screen bigger. I can't see how this is a real problem and the example they give is irrelevant. An increase of 1/4 of an inch in width is not going to break the usability of the phone and it's nothing to worry about. Certainly not enough to write such a terrible article about and call it a "signature" feature of the iPhone.

  • Reply 112 of 126
    bmason1270bmason1270 Posts: 258member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by HKZ View Post


     


    I don't disagree about shooting for a sweet spot at all. I'm also not dumb enough to think Apple isn't smart enough to realize this. They clearly have hit a very good medium with the iPhone and iPod. But we are talking very small fractions of an inch increase in size. If it were more than a quarter of an inch I could see it being an issue for those with small hands and people seem to be making a much bigger deal about this than is necessary or warranted. This article being the prime example. The iPhone is wonderfully designed but they are using a fallacious argument to go against making the screen bigger. I can't see how this is a real problem and the example they give is irrelevant. An increase of 1/4 of an inch in width is not going to break the usability of the phone and it's nothing to worry about. Certainly not enough to write such a terrible article about and call it a "signature" feature of the iPhone.



    HAHAHA, much better said. Agreed

  • Reply 113 of 126
    starbird73starbird73 Posts: 538member
    As long as the zoom is the same, you are likely to see more.

    asdasd wrote: »
    Why would you see less of a page? Text will wrap.

    The whole world isn't text. And then overlay the keyboard to see what I mean.
    wizard69 wrote: »
    Did you flunk math or geometry in school. Seriously how does more area on screen lead to less of the web page being viewed? A wider screen will be of huge benefit to those that view the web on their iPhones. Frankly if you visit these forums on your iPhone it should be pretty damn obvious.
    Honestly how did you come to this point of view? Has your mind been twisted by the Democratic party?

    Since you ask, no, didn't flunk, did reasonably well in math, especially geometry. Was #6 overall in my graduating class, if such things matter to you.
    jkichline wrote: »
    Nice try on trying to get me to switch political parties. You may want to rethink your strategy there because calling people morons is not helping your cause, especially when those morons are educated democrats.

    He isn't a moron. Here's how it works... While the height (when in landscape) remains 640 pixels high, the percentage of the screen in comparison to the width becomes less. If the website is designed to fill the width of the screen (which it will be since that's the desired viewport), then the amount shown vertically is decreased. It's simple math really. Here's my proof since you obviously need that...

    When in 960x640, the website fills the screen horizontally 100% and then the "fold" is at 67% of the width (640/960).  If you are using an 1136 pixel wide screen, then the fold is at 56% of the width of the screen(640/1136), or you are seeing 11% less of the height of the original viewport. If given the same DPI (326ppi), the website content would appear slightly larger, an increase of 18.3% (1136/960)-1.

    cycomiko wrote: »

    Can you compare two screens

    1024x786 

    to

    1024x600

    People are fearing the next iphone will become the later in landscape, less info.

    EDIT:


    I have used the power of my work PC to develop this representation of what I mean

    Both fit to width, 960 on one, 1136 on other.   

    LL

    Wow, I guess when you don't understand someone else, you can always resort to insults (and completely irrelevant political references). 

    If a web page is designed to take up the device's width, making the iPhone wider will make the existing content larger, but show less content vertically since it is narrower. Imagine viewing a tall website like the New York Times in landscape mode. Either on iPhone 4S or "iPhone 5", it'll display the whole thing left to right. But vertically, the 16:9 "iPhone 5" would show less. 

    I'm not saying this is a huge problem (holding it in portrait, it will show more content), but it's a valid point. You embarrass yourself. 

    Thanks for proving my point, cycomiko. Then, throw the keyboard on there and try responding to this thread on the new, longer iPhone.
  • Reply 114 of 126
    jetzjetz Posts: 1,293member


    I don't get why people fear letterboxing so much.  What's the big deal?  It would allow backwards compatibility with apps and let Apple move to a new form factor with a new size.  And whatever is comfortable, the sale of large size Androids clearly shows that there's a ton of demand for larger screens.  


     


    Aside from all that, I'd argue that this is one of those changes that Apple needs to make...otherwise you'll get a whackload of people complaining about how nothing has changed....like the 4S.  And let's face it, if Apple does change the screen size, nobody is going to question it.  People will be tripping over themselves to say how great an idea it was for Apple to go with a bigger screen.

  • Reply 115 of 126
    muncywebmuncyweb Posts: 157member


    Wow, we are a lazy people.

  • Reply 116 of 126
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Bankshott View Post


    I think I cracked the riddle and it is staring us right in the face.  Apps developed with 16:9  aspect ratio will be optimized for both the new iphone AND the not-yet-announced iTV (and vice versa)  It almost seems, however, like iPAD would  have to go 16:9  at  some  point...



     


    I had the same thought previously. iPhone + Siri + Tivo-like app = AppleTV remote?

  • Reply 117 of 126
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    I had the same thought previously. iPhone + Siri + Tivo-like app = AppleTV remote?

    I'm hoping the disabled BT4.0 in the newest Apple TV will all make sense on Monday.
  • Reply 118 of 126
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member
    wizard69 wrote: »
    First let me say this is another garbage AI article better suited for a slow news day!
    As to your comments I'm not sure why everybody gets hung up on aspect ratios. Going 16:9 gives both the user and developer more screen to work with, without making the device awkwardly larger. A longer device will fit the pocket much better than a wider device.
    The big advantage comes when viewing documents and doing just about any sort of editing. The current iPhone screen is a real pain in the butt when working with documents or web edit boxes like this one. I really don't understand the negativity here. Further if Apple was smart this really wouldn't be a "new" iPhone but rather a new cell phone added to their line up. Different people have different needs and the single form factor iPhone solution makes about as much sense as having a single size laptop.

    Yeah but what about all that crap that has been spewing out from this site for the last 5 years that 5.4 is the best aspect ratio and 16.9 is crap. Oppions can't just change over night, wait unless everyone here just blindly follows what a corporation tells them to do. I bet you a 1,000 dollars the next iPad will also be 16.9, it's only logical to keep things uniformed. Hahahhhahahahh, this is going to be great, I'm really enjoying myself. The best thing to you will all love it and say it's much better, hahhhahhhaa.
  • Reply 119 of 126
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Relic View Post

    Yeah but what about all that crap that has been spewing out from this site for the last 5 years that 5.4 is the best aspect ratio and 16.9 is crap. Oppions can't just change over night, wait unless everyone here just blindly follows what a corporation tells them to do. I bet you a 1,000 dollars the next iPad will also be 16.9, it's only logical to keep things uniformed. Hahahhhahahahh, this is going to be great, I'm really enjoying myself. The best thing to you will all love it and say it's much better, hahhhahhhaa.


     


    You seem to have it in for absolutely everything that Apple does, making up falsehoods as you go about the company and its users.

  • Reply 120 of 126
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    relic wrote: »
    Yeah but what about all that crap that has been spewing out from this site for the last 5 years that 5.4 is the best aspect ratio and 16.9 is crap. Oppions can't just change over night, wait unless everyone here just blindly follows what a corporation tells them to do. I bet you a 1,000 dollars the next iPad will also be 16.9, it's only logical to keep things uniformed. Hahahhhahahahh, this is going to be great, I'm really enjoying myself. The best thing to you will all love it and say it's much better, hahhhahhhaa.

    Where the frak is Apple's 5:4 aspect ratio device? I can't think of any vendor that makes such a product.
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