Really wouldn't have fit into today's presentation. I expect all desktops to upgrade soon.
Agreed. After the rumors I was kind of looking forward to it, but from a presentation perspective, it (and iMac) wouldn't have fit, especially with a 2-hour limit.
As much I adore the Mac Pro, it wouldn't bother me one bit if they reduced or even eliminated the damn handles. They're extremely fragile, and can't really be repaired if they get bent or misaligned in the slightest. As already stated, they also make the machine *much* larger and more cumbersome than it needs to be.
Feeling mixed emotions here today. On one hand, they gave a nice bump to the MacBook Airs and introduced the retina display MacBook Pros which I can't wait to look at. On the other hand, we have the Mac Pro which I think would have been better to have been discontinued along with the 17" MBP then to be given such a small update.
Some might say something is better is than nothing though not in this case in my opinion.??
Inclusion in the keynote was a long shot anyway. What they focused on makes perfect sense.
But the use of the "NEW" tag for the Mac Pros in the web store does seem quite cruel, when all the other machines with the same tag have keynote-worthy improvements. Kind of bizarre, really.
What is different is the sales lineup, which has been adjusted, now with two basic machines, one a single-processor, the other a dual-processor. That much makes sense, in that it more simply and cleanly lays out the initial choice to be made as you configure. I still wonder if we will see these disappear from the Apple retail stores in the next few months. Maybe they have already, for all I know. I think it very likely. The Cinema Display is already gone.
I will say this. The fact they've bothered to reset the approach to configuring the Mac Pro online at all is a good sign for the future of the machine. This is a trimmed-down, no-monkey-business approach. Tim Cook's M.O. exactly. As I've argued before, there are good reasons for Apple to continue to develop OS X for Intel's most powerful processors, beyond just selling Mac Pro machines. Eventually we will see a new Mac Pro -- probably sooner rather than later.
Feeling mixed emotions here today. On one hand, they gave a nice bump to the MacBook Airs and introduced the retina display MacBook Pros which I can't wait to look at. On the other hand, we have the Mac Pro which I think would have been better to have been discontinued along with the 17" MBP then to be given such a small update.
Some might say something is better is than nothing though not in this case in my opinion.??
They could have realized they were drinking too much of their own kool-aid and started on an updated design, but this really was a ridiculous excuse for an update.
You couldn't be more wrong here. The Mac Pro needs to have features it's users want to be successful. In that regards the current machine is a failure as can be seen with the declining sales.
Let's face it Ford had the Edsel but having a product nobody wants does a company little good. In this regards I'm convinced that if Apple fails to make a Pro that is appealing to a wider audience it will go the way of the XServe and the Edsel.
Like it or not Apples desktop line up is stagnet. Obviously Apple can ignore this if they want, but it doesn't mean customers have to accept it. Your attitude seems to imply that customers have to accept Apples design decisions, but reality is far different. What is revealed tomorrow will have a huge impact on the future of Apples desktop sales. If it is the same ole crap I'm not to convinced success is at hand.
What I'm saying is that whatever Apple thinks they need to do is what's important. If they think the Mac Pro isn't important, then it isn't. We can see by the minor update it received, and with no news about iMacs, that Apple has their work moving in another direction. They can't do everything all at once.
If Pogue is correct, we'll see major revisions of the Mac Pro and iMacs next year. I hope it will be earlier.
From what I read in a number of places, iMacs have been taking the place of Mac Pro's in a lot of areas. The quad core cpu's seem to have enough power for a lot of uses for which Mac Pro's were being used.
But the problem with people saying that "Apple must do this", is that Apple may be looking at things differently from the way you are. Very likely, they aren't interested in what you are. So, if they do eliminate any really good upgrades, no matter what they could be, it's because they believe it won't benefit them. And that's why I say what matters is what they want to do.
For all we know, it's just a handful of people who want rack mountable Mac Pro's. The way I see it, it would be a major redesign for them if they did it. The idea of those four drives ending up inside the rack isn't useful for a rack mounted computer. So while there are companies who make rack mounts for them, there aren't that many people who buy them.
The mods are very minor. The reduction required would be a case around 19" height and 5-6" width (in tower configuration). That would allow you to put a Mac Pro into a 3U space on a rack on its side. Essentially you remove the "handles" and shuffle it around a little.
And there's even a rumor that there were prototypes last year:
EDIT: Well that's really chimpy to wipe out links to 9to5. So here's a big FUI and a link to tuaw that has a link to 9to5.
And yes, it would allow Mac shops that miss the XServe to fill that niche. All in all a very good compromise. No additional SKU. No impact to current Mac Pro users. Just a case without those big assed handles. Or at least slimmer ones. I certainly don't understand your kvetching about this. It doesn't impact your use at all and would greatly help others. It's a smart redesign where everyone wins and not too taxing on Ive's team given they've had quite a while to play around with alternatives.
I just don't see it. Rack mounting it while leaving the drives inside the rack is a screwed up rack mounted machine. It's too much trouble to get to those drives. So sure, you think it's just a matter of putting it into a 19" rack, but it's more than that for it to be really effective. And the SVD drives aren't designed for vertical operation. They'd need to change those too.
Yes, cutting the d
amn handles off would be a huge modification wouldn't it? Legitimately, that's all they would absolutely have to do to get it so you can set the dumb thing on it's side on a rack shelf. I know businesses that did this themselves but put a couple of pre-tapped holes so someone can release a rack kit and you'd at least have a box you can cleanly put in a rack... The handles on the current design aren't really usable anyway as the metal digs into your hands if you have to move a machine more than about 5 feet.
You don't base an investment on whether you'll only increase sales 10%. You base a business investment on whether the amount you have to invest will increase your return. If it costs Apple an extra $1 million to redesign the machine, but they make an extra $1.25 million it is still a smart business decision. They are willing to customize the Mini to make a server version of it, what's to say they won't do the same with the Pro???
Man, you guys seem to think that's all it needs. But that's not right. Sure, for a crappy install it's all it needs. Now, try and change a drive.
Man, you guys seem to think that's all it needs. But that's not right. Sure, for a crappy install it's all it needs. Now, try and change a drive.
The easy way out; reconfigure handles to be end-user removable & replaced with a rackmount kit that allows the entire chassis to slide out for 'top-loading' access to interior/. A kludge, sure, but short-term workable.
Serious solution, redesign the damned chassis already! Yes, the current chassis is a battle tank and dead sexy, but it has been around FOREVER!
I say rackmount width in height, end-user configurable ODD/front ports section (made to be pulled out & rotated 90 degrees depending on tower or rackmount usage) & four swappable drive bays also accessed from the front of the machine. Any other configuration changes the end-user desires to make they either open side of unit (much like current chassis design) in tower mode, or have chassis slide out on rails when in rackmount mode.
And please, PLEASE! get with ATi & nVidea and give us access to more graphics card choices!!!
I say rackmount width in height, end-user configurable ODD/front ports section (made to be pulled out & rotated 90 degrees depending on tower or rackmount usage) & four swappable drive bays also accessed from the front of the machine. Any other configuration changes the end-user desires to make they either open side of unit (much like current chassis design) in tower mode, or have chassis slide out on rails when in rackmount mode.
And please, PLEASE! get with ATi & nVidea and give us access to more graphics card choices!!!
1. the ODD works perfectly find under a 90 degree angle
2. four HDD's on top of each other might become too hot at the top, which is probably why they went from two stacked ones to four in a row.
3. if they added graphic card options people would be outraged and hated Apple for overcharging.
I just don't see it. Rack mounting it while leaving the drives inside the rack is a screwed up rack mounted machine. It's too much trouble to get to those drives. So sure, you think it's just a matter of putting it into a 19" rack, but it's more than that for it to be really effective. And the SVD drives aren't designed for vertical operation. They'd need to change those too.
I have rack mounted servers with some internal drives. All of my blades also have internal drives so to swap any of those I have to pull the blade, pop them open and then replace.
Too much trouble? You pop the two rack locking tabs, slide the Mac Pro out, pull the latch, pop the top (side) panel off and then replace a drive, put the panel back on, latch and slide it back into the rack until it locks into place. All of my rack rails slide. There are no screws involved anywhere.
If you have a drive in a sled already it should take you all of a couple minutes to do unless you have a hosed up cable management issue. It's only marginally slower than replacing a front panel drive given the layout of the Mac Pro.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by gfeier
Really wouldn't have fit into today's presentation. I expect all desktops to upgrade soon.
Agreed. After the rumors I was kind of looking forward to it, but from a presentation perspective, it (and iMac) wouldn't have fit, especially with a 2-hour limit.
No announcement because they're still hard-at-work, cutting the "handles" off...
MAC PRO has a NEW tag on the store...!!!!
price is $2499
Store is choking at the moment obviously
As much I adore the Mac Pro, it wouldn't bother me one bit if they reduced or even eliminated the damn handles. They're extremely fragile, and can't really be repaired if they get bent or misaligned in the slightest. As already stated, they also make the machine *much* larger and more cumbersome than it needs to be.
But it is one beautiful machine, ain't it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aldaris
MAC PRO has a NEW tag on the store...!!!!
So what changed? Other than the price, which is now THIRTY SEVEN NINETY NINE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
So what changed? Other than the price, which is now THIRTY SEVEN NINETY NINE.
Nothing that I can tell...main website still shows Westmere E5645 Xeons in tech specs, no thunderbolt, etc. Did the graphics card change or something?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht
Nothing that I can tell...main website still shows Westmere E5645 Xeons in tech specs, no thunderbolt, etc. Did the graphics card change or something?
Identical graphics.
Feeling mixed emotions here today. On one hand, they gave a nice bump to the MacBook Airs and introduced the retina display MacBook Pros which I can't wait to look at. On the other hand, we have the Mac Pro which I think would have been better to have been discontinued along with the 17" MBP then to be given such a small update.
Some might say something is better is than nothing though not in this case in my opinion.??
Inclusion in the keynote was a long shot anyway. What they focused on makes perfect sense.
But the use of the "NEW" tag for the Mac Pros in the web store does seem quite cruel, when all the other machines with the same tag have keynote-worthy improvements. Kind of bizarre, really.
What is different is the sales lineup, which has been adjusted, now with two basic machines, one a single-processor, the other a dual-processor. That much makes sense, in that it more simply and cleanly lays out the initial choice to be made as you configure. I still wonder if we will see these disappear from the Apple retail stores in the next few months. Maybe they have already, for all I know. I think it very likely. The Cinema Display is already gone.
I will say this. The fact they've bothered to reset the approach to configuring the Mac Pro online at all is a good sign for the future of the machine. This is a trimmed-down, no-monkey-business approach. Tim Cook's M.O. exactly. As I've argued before, there are good reasons for Apple to continue to develop OS X for Intel's most powerful processors, beyond just selling Mac Pro machines. Eventually we will see a new Mac Pro -- probably sooner rather than later.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter
Feeling mixed emotions here today. On one hand, they gave a nice bump to the MacBook Airs and introduced the retina display MacBook Pros which I can't wait to look at. On the other hand, we have the Mac Pro which I think would have been better to have been discontinued along with the 17" MBP then to be given such a small update.
Some might say something is better is than nothing though not in this case in my opinion.??
They could have realized they were drinking too much of their own kool-aid and started on an updated design, but this really was a ridiculous excuse for an update.
What I'm saying is that whatever Apple thinks they need to do is what's important. If they think the Mac Pro isn't important, then it isn't. We can see by the minor update it received, and with no news about iMacs, that Apple has their work moving in another direction. They can't do everything all at once.
If Pogue is correct, we'll see major revisions of the Mac Pro and iMacs next year. I hope it will be earlier.
From what I read in a number of places, iMacs have been taking the place of Mac Pro's in a lot of areas. The quad core cpu's seem to have enough power for a lot of uses for which Mac Pro's were being used.
But the problem with people saying that "Apple must do this", is that Apple may be looking at things differently from the way you are. Very likely, they aren't interested in what you are. So, if they do eliminate any really good upgrades, no matter what they could be, it's because they believe it won't benefit them. And that's why I say what matters is what they want to do.
For all we know, it's just a handful of people who want rack mountable Mac Pro's. The way I see it, it would be a major redesign for them if they did it. The idea of those four drives ending up inside the rack isn't useful for a rack mounted computer. So while there are companies who make rack mounts for them, there aren't that many people who buy them.
I just don't see it. Rack mounting it while leaving the drives inside the rack is a screwed up rack mounted machine. It's too much trouble to get to those drives. So sure, you think it's just a matter of putting it into a 19" rack, but it's more than that for it to be really effective. And the SVD drives aren't designed for vertical operation. They'd need to change those too.
Man, you guys seem to think that's all it needs. But that's not right. Sure, for a crappy install it's all it needs. Now, try and change a drive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
Man, you guys seem to think that's all it needs. But that's not right. Sure, for a crappy install it's all it needs. Now, try and change a drive.
The easy way out; reconfigure handles to be end-user removable & replaced with a rackmount kit that allows the entire chassis to slide out for 'top-loading' access to interior/. A kludge, sure, but short-term workable.
Serious solution, redesign the damned chassis already! Yes, the current chassis is a battle tank and dead sexy, but it has been around FOREVER!
I say rackmount width in height, end-user configurable ODD/front ports section (made to be pulled out & rotated 90 degrees depending on tower or rackmount usage) & four swappable drive bays also accessed from the front of the machine. Any other configuration changes the end-user desires to make they either open side of unit (much like current chassis design) in tower mode, or have chassis slide out on rails when in rackmount mode.
And please, PLEASE! get with ATi & nVidea and give us access to more graphics card choices!!!
1. the ODD works perfectly find under a 90 degree angle
2. four HDD's on top of each other might become too hot at the top, which is probably why they went from two stacked ones to four in a row.
3. if they added graphic card options people would be outraged and hated Apple for overcharging.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
I just don't see it. Rack mounting it while leaving the drives inside the rack is a screwed up rack mounted machine. It's too much trouble to get to those drives. So sure, you think it's just a matter of putting it into a 19" rack, but it's more than that for it to be really effective. And the SVD drives aren't designed for vertical operation. They'd need to change those too.
I have rack mounted servers with some internal drives. All of my blades also have internal drives so to swap any of those I have to pull the blade, pop them open and then replace.
Too much trouble? You pop the two rack locking tabs, slide the Mac Pro out, pull the latch, pop the top (side) panel off and then replace a drive, put the panel back on, latch and slide it back into the rack until it locks into place. All of my rack rails slide. There are no screws involved anywhere.
If you have a drive in a sled already it should take you all of a couple minutes to do unless you have a hosed up cable management issue. It's only marginally slower than replacing a front panel drive given the layout of the Mac Pro.