The new MacBook Pro is clearly a brilliant replacement for both the current 15" and 17" models. Incredibly powerful, who needs a big heavyweight redundant desk-bound tower? Just plug the new 15" into an Apple display and you have the perfect desktop system as well as the perfect laptop.
That said, keeping the existing 13" and 15" models seems very schizophrenic. Don't Apple believe in their new 15" machine? And where was the new 13" MacBook Pro? Maybe the new 13" Air is good enough? But if it is, couldn't it have had the retina treatment too?
They are not schizophrenic at all. You don't get what they are doing, they only offer retina on the high end macbook pro as a selling point so they can at the same time cripple it from storage options (hence no dual hd and ssd, hence ssd only and no option for a hard disk), solder the ram (so you get that too from them) and you end up paying at least $3000 for the benefit of a mac with retina and barely decent storage. Had they put retina in the 13" air (and they very well could seeing as they have even smaller screens) they 'd be no point overpaying for the macbook pro for a lot of people just to get the retina. A lot of people would get the slimmer and lighter 13" air with a retina. Now anyone who wants a retina will have to go only with the new mbp and pay a hell of a lot of money for a component that isn't costing them more than $100. It's all very well planned to get as much money as they possibly can from the buyer. The model that has one advanced feature that no other has is the one they are hitting the hardest in terms of price and crippling the most.
I didn't check first thing so I don't know if it has sold out of initial stock or not; that's what I was trying to ask. I haven't slept since yesterday so pardon if the question was not clear.
If it is selling that fast, then the nay-sayers, again, are off the mark. I remember the original MaBook Air and the bashing it received, though it was being hit for slightly different reasons.
Not everybody will like it. Not everybody will need it. Not everybody will be able to afford it. That's life. It doesn't make it a bad machine.
Looking… looking… Windows 8. Your argument instantly invalidates itself.
We'll have to wait three months, but I figure you'll be proven wrong, just as everyone who bets against Apple has been in the past.
In the past few years - decade? - maybe; but a bit further in the past, betting against Apple was common sense.
However, people who didn't realize winds of change coming from Apple made some huge mistake with their "rounding number errors" etc.
But not accepting possibility that others can make an u-turn is equal mistake. Especially those who don't need such an extreme U-turn Apple required in bad old days of subsistence.
In short, while ego-boosting is all good and self-therapeutic, one should never underestimate competition.
While I'm personally not overly enthusiastic with Metro on desktop, I'm well aware it is consumer preview only... so I'll keep my final judgment until I can actually see how new Windows ecosystem with phones, tablets, desktops and services (Hotmail, SkyDrive, Windows Live...) turn out to be.
The ways people can rationalise apple taking advantage of them, simply unbelievable. I have at least 20hbs of photos, about 50 gbs of work related PDF files, books, manuals, papers, about 50gbs pf music, and my apps run at another 40gbs at least. My job requires me to have a database of my past work and a third of it is 100gbs and I am not even a music or video professional, and I can't fit a thing to a super expensive notebook, not because there's any inherent problem of having a hard drive of 1tb in there. But because apple make their money off of overpriced ssd and they don't want to give me the extra space they saved without the optical and with sticking the ssd on the motherboard.
It's 2012 and they still won't even offer the option for a second hard drive instead of optical on the non retina MacBook pro...
Actually, optional 1TB or larger HDD is addition to SSD would be nice...
wrong the ipad has dboule the capacity in its new battery.
I am comparing battery hours (which is what most people go by, the new iPad actually dropped slightly). The Retina Macbook Pro also has a larger battery in order to support the Retina display. Although the ratio will be different from iPad since the display on iPad takes a bigger % of power compare to display of a Macbook Pro. But for users, it is the battery hours that matter and not the mAh.
They are not schizophrenic at all. You don't get what they are doing, they only offer retina on the high end macbook pro as a selling point so they can at the same time cripple it from storage options (hence no dual hd and ssd, hence ssd only and no option for a hard disk), solder the ram (so you get that too from them) and you end up paying at least $3000 for the benefit of a mac with retina and barely decent storage. Had they put retina in the 13" air (and they very well could seeing as they have even smaller screens) they 'd be no point overpaying for the macbook pro for a lot of people just to get the retina. A lot of people would get the slimmer and lighter 13" air with a retina. Now anyone who wants a retina will have to go only with the new mbp and pay a hell of a lot of money for a component that isn't costing them more than $100. It's all very well planned to get as much money as they possibly can from the buyer. The model that has one advanced feature that no other has is the one they are hitting the hardest in terms of price and crippling the most.
First of all, no one knows whether the onboard intel graphics can drive a Retina display at decent levels and how they would affect the battery without having to make the Air thicker (which defeats the purpose of the Air). Notice they didn't release a 13" Retina Pro. It is likely that it is very hard to fit discrete graphics, 7 hr battery, Retina all into a 13" slim body.
Could they have added the Retina to the Macbook Pro's with HDD at a lower price? Probably. But Retina is a premium feature (no one NEEDS Retina because until today, there were no Retina labtops) so Apple grouped it with other premium features SSD and slimmer body. Of course, they can be like other vendors have have 100+ SKUs but Apple has never chosen that path. And considering they upgraded the non Retina Macbook Pro with upgrades like all the other vendors (ivy bridge) for same prices, not sure what the problem is.
Seems that nothing Apple makes fits your bill. Best start looking elsewhere.
I think people are squealing because this is a very desirable machine, and they can't afford it. I want one too.
A high-end CPU, upper-midrange discrete GPU, very high end display, high end storage, thin and light, excellent connectivity, excellent battery life. It seems miles ahead of the competition.
I bet practically every developer at WWDC is planning on buying one.
Since I bought the new iPad, I will only buy products with retina displays from now on. Retina displays have completely ruined any satisfaction I may gain from using a device without one. Looking at the iPad 2s in the Apple Store makes me think "why did people ever buy such a pixelated antiquated piece of technology?"
I have no use to upgrade my 2008 MacBook, however. The iPad has pretty much replaced most of what I do on my MacBook, and I have it hooked up to a 27" Cinema Display anyway, so, until they come out with a retina cinema display, I'm content
i totally agree with you the retina products from now on…
2200 USD for a machine with 8 GB RAM? And the RAM is soldered, so you buy it and then have to live with it to the end. This is future according to Apple? Big price is being paid for "thin" (and I don't mean money).
if for some reason i need windows 7 on bootcamp (games, software already bought or Vstudio..
how is windows going to look on this piece of amazing engineering?
Windows will treat it like a PC with a 2880x1800 display and nVidia GT650m graphics card.
It could work. Windows does have a high DPI icons and font settings, that could make the desktop applications useable. Not that I would waste a thing of beauty running Windows.
It could work. Windows does have a high DPI icons and font settings, that could make the desktop applications useable. Not that I would waste a thing of beauty running Windows.
very true. i wouldn't waste this beast too by running windows… can't wait to get one here in china.
on chinese apple store it says can't order right now as it is not confirmed by the officials.
I think people are squealing because this is a very desirable machine, and they can't afford it. I want one too.
A high-end CPU, upper-midrange discrete GPU, very high end display, high end storage, thin and light, excellent connectivity, excellent battery life. It seems miles ahead of the competition.
I bet practically every developer at WWDC is planning on buying one.
I think your comment is spot on. The new retina-equipped MacBook Pro is gorgeous - Everyone wants one, but we balk at the price. Most of us don't need the power it offers. For most of us a 13" Air with a retina display would be enough. I accept, however, that there may be real issues combining battery life and GPU power to drive a retina display in a either a 13" or 15" wedge-shaped Air unibody design. I am sure we will see a 13" MBP at some point, and hopefully with a 1 TB SSD storage option.
A lot of posters have commented on the upgradeability of the new machine. What you buy is what you're stuck with. It is easy to cynically regard this as apple ensuring you'll replace your machine a few years down the line. My 13" MacBook Pro was bought in 2009 and has lasted almost four years. When I bought it, I got the maximum spec available and found no need to upgrade RAM or hard drive. I only needed to replace the battery. The outcome is that I've never kept any machine so long. I want to replace it, but I don't need to. I think a lot of people fall into the same camp.
As it stands, the 15.4" Retina MBP is extremely enticing, but I'm still waiting for a 13" machine with a retina display and 1 TB of SSD for less than $2,000.
I was looking at getting the Dell U2711. I heard a few rumbles about the anti-glare coating. I wish i could see one before purchase.
I bought one, and returned it because of the anti-glare coating (thank you, B&H Photo for easy returns). If you like rainbow-sparkly whites, it's great... I'm using a Apple 27" now, and with a little effort not having trouble with glare, I'd still rather have a nice anti-glare monitor though...
8GB is gimped because its soldered on, if it was upgradable it would have been pretty cool, same goes with the 200GB SSD
That does not make it 'gimped', it makes it permanent to some degree. Significant difference between the two. Again, there are people who could make good use of this laptop through its lifetime with the 8 GBs of RAM with no problem. It does require that someone be careful of their buying decision, though. If they believe there's a chance they'll need more RAM down the road they should definitely spend the extra $200 for the 16 GBs.
On the note of the parts being soldered, I've read that numerous times now, but where is the confirmation? Is it based on parts which have been leaked or an actual inspection of the device? I'd love to read more about that if someone can share. Though I'm sure iFixIt will have all the information we need in short order.
As for the SSD it would be nice to upgrade that. It is a technology which is improving and growing more affordable so it is the sort of thing a person might like to upgrade at some point in the device's lifetime, but not enough of a dealbreaker to make me (at least) think twice about the purchase. Just another case where I paid for an upgrade so I knew I'd have what I needed through the laptop's lifetime. iTunes Match actually addressed my only real storage concern anyway. Everything else can be addressed smoothly through external storage. I just wanted more than 256 GBs so I didn't actually have to worry about it.
8GB is gimped. And for a Pro system entry level should be at 16GB. W're talking about a Pro system and I can punch that memory till its maxed in 5 minutes.
I can't believe all the whining that is going on here. This thing is priced very, very aggressively for the technology in it, and while you can get more powerful machines for the same price, you can't get the same combo of 256 GB SSD, 16 gig ram, high-res screen, etc...
Comments
Shipping says 2-3 weeks.
Is this thing selling that fast?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tailpipe
The new MacBook Pro is clearly a brilliant replacement for both the current 15" and 17" models. Incredibly powerful, who needs a big heavyweight redundant desk-bound tower? Just plug the new 15" into an Apple display and you have the perfect desktop system as well as the perfect laptop.
That said, keeping the existing 13" and 15" models seems very schizophrenic. Don't Apple believe in their new 15" machine? And where was the new 13" MacBook Pro? Maybe the new 13" Air is good enough? But if it is, couldn't it have had the retina treatment too?
They are not schizophrenic at all. You don't get what they are doing, they only offer retina on the high end macbook pro as a selling point so they can at the same time cripple it from storage options (hence no dual hd and ssd, hence ssd only and no option for a hard disk), solder the ram (so you get that too from them) and you end up paying at least $3000 for the benefit of a mac with retina and barely decent storage. Had they put retina in the 13" air (and they very well could seeing as they have even smaller screens) they 'd be no point overpaying for the macbook pro for a lot of people just to get the retina. A lot of people would get the slimmer and lighter 13" air with a retina. Now anyone who wants a retina will have to go only with the new mbp and pay a hell of a lot of money for a component that isn't costing them more than $100. It's all very well planned to get as much money as they possibly can from the buyer. The model that has one advanced feature that no other has is the one they are hitting the hardest in terms of price and crippling the most.
I'm in Japan. US is also 2-3 weeks.
I didn't check first thing so I don't know if it has sold out of initial stock or not; that's what I was trying to ask. I haven't slept since yesterday so pardon if the question was not clear.
If it is selling that fast, then the nay-sayers, again, are off the mark. I remember the original MaBook Air and the bashing it received, though it was being hit for slightly different reasons.
Not everybody will like it. Not everybody will need it. Not everybody will be able to afford it. That's life. It doesn't make it a bad machine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Looking… looking… Windows 8. Your argument instantly invalidates itself.
We'll have to wait three months, but I figure you'll be proven wrong, just as everyone who bets against Apple has been in the past.
In the past few years - decade? - maybe; but a bit further in the past, betting against Apple was common sense.
However, people who didn't realize winds of change coming from Apple made some huge mistake with their "rounding number errors" etc.
But not accepting possibility that others can make an u-turn is equal mistake. Especially those who don't need such an extreme U-turn Apple required in bad old days of subsistence.
In short, while ego-boosting is all good and self-therapeutic, one should never underestimate competition.
While I'm personally not overly enthusiastic with Metro on desktop, I'm well aware it is consumer preview only... so I'll keep my final judgment until I can actually see how new Windows ecosystem with phones, tablets, desktops and services (Hotmail, SkyDrive, Windows Live...) turn out to be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove
The ways people can rationalise apple taking advantage of them, simply unbelievable. I have at least 20hbs of photos, about 50 gbs of work related PDF files, books, manuals, papers, about 50gbs pf music, and my apps run at another 40gbs at least. My job requires me to have a database of my past work and a third of it is 100gbs and I am not even a music or video professional, and I can't fit a thing to a super expensive notebook, not because there's any inherent problem of having a hard drive of 1tb in there. But because apple make their money off of overpriced ssd and they don't want to give me the extra space they saved without the optical and with sticking the ssd on the motherboard.
It's 2012 and they still won't even offer the option for a second hard drive instead of optical on the non retina MacBook pro...
Actually, optional 1TB or larger HDD is addition to SSD would be nice...
Nice machine. Good specs. Price could be better but its Apple so we're paying for it.
HDMI, Flash, USB3, Bluetooth 4.0 , Extended Battery Life all = dynamite features.
Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove
wrong the ipad has dboule the capacity in its new battery.
I am comparing battery hours (which is what most people go by, the new iPad actually dropped slightly). The Retina Macbook Pro also has a larger battery in order to support the Retina display. Although the ratio will be different from iPad since the display on iPad takes a bigger % of power compare to display of a Macbook Pro. But for users, it is the battery hours that matter and not the mAh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove
They are not schizophrenic at all. You don't get what they are doing, they only offer retina on the high end macbook pro as a selling point so they can at the same time cripple it from storage options (hence no dual hd and ssd, hence ssd only and no option for a hard disk), solder the ram (so you get that too from them) and you end up paying at least $3000 for the benefit of a mac with retina and barely decent storage. Had they put retina in the 13" air (and they very well could seeing as they have even smaller screens) they 'd be no point overpaying for the macbook pro for a lot of people just to get the retina. A lot of people would get the slimmer and lighter 13" air with a retina. Now anyone who wants a retina will have to go only with the new mbp and pay a hell of a lot of money for a component that isn't costing them more than $100. It's all very well planned to get as much money as they possibly can from the buyer. The model that has one advanced feature that no other has is the one they are hitting the hardest in terms of price and crippling the most.
First of all, no one knows whether the onboard intel graphics can drive a Retina display at decent levels and how they would affect the battery without having to make the Air thicker (which defeats the purpose of the Air). Notice they didn't release a 13" Retina Pro. It is likely that it is very hard to fit discrete graphics, 7 hr battery, Retina all into a 13" slim body.
Could they have added the Retina to the Macbook Pro's with HDD at a lower price? Probably. But Retina is a premium feature (no one NEEDS Retina because until today, there were no Retina labtops) so Apple grouped it with other premium features SSD and slimmer body. Of course, they can be like other vendors have have 100+ SKUs but Apple has never chosen that path. And considering they upgraded the non Retina Macbook Pro with upgrades like all the other vendors (ivy bridge) for same prices, not sure what the problem is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Seems that nothing Apple makes fits your bill. Best start looking elsewhere.
I think people are squealing because this is a very desirable machine, and they can't afford it. I want one too.
A high-end CPU, upper-midrange discrete GPU, very high end display, high end storage, thin and light, excellent connectivity, excellent battery life. It seems miles ahead of the competition.
I bet practically every developer at WWDC is planning on buying one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyler82
Since I bought the new iPad, I will only buy products with retina displays from now on. Retina displays have completely ruined any satisfaction I may gain from using a device without one. Looking at the iPad 2s in the Apple Store makes me think "why did people ever buy such a pixelated antiquated piece of technology?"
I have no use to upgrade my 2008 MacBook, however. The iPad has pretty much replaced most of what I do on my MacBook, and I have it hooked up to a 27" Cinema Display anyway, so, until they come out with a retina cinema display, I'm content
i totally agree with you the retina products from now on…
2200 USD for a machine with 8 GB RAM? And the RAM is soldered, so you buy it and then have to live with it to the end. This is future according to Apple? Big price is being paid for "thin" (and I don't mean money).
Windows will treat it like a PC with a 2880x1800 display and nVidia GT650m graphics card.
It could work. Windows does have a high DPI icons and font settings, that could make the desktop applications useable. Not that I would waste a thing of beauty running Windows.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton
It could work. Windows does have a high DPI icons and font settings, that could make the desktop applications useable. Not that I would waste a thing of beauty running Windows.
very true. i wouldn't waste this beast too by running windows… can't wait to get one here in china.
on chinese apple store it says can't order right now as it is not confirmed by the officials.
Higher resolution without independent font control simply means more difficulty reading ever-smaller type.
Nice pictures, but a machine increasingly difficult to work with in non-visual terms.
As for Mountain Lion -- let's just say its interface and new features had better be a hell of a lot better than Lion was or forget it.
I didn't buy a Mac to use an iPhone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hypercommunist
I think people are squealing because this is a very desirable machine, and they can't afford it. I want one too.
A high-end CPU, upper-midrange discrete GPU, very high end display, high end storage, thin and light, excellent connectivity, excellent battery life. It seems miles ahead of the competition.
I bet practically every developer at WWDC is planning on buying one.
I think your comment is spot on. The new retina-equipped MacBook Pro is gorgeous - Everyone wants one, but we balk at the price. Most of us don't need the power it offers. For most of us a 13" Air with a retina display would be enough. I accept, however, that there may be real issues combining battery life and GPU power to drive a retina display in a either a 13" or 15" wedge-shaped Air unibody design. I am sure we will see a 13" MBP at some point, and hopefully with a 1 TB SSD storage option.
A lot of posters have commented on the upgradeability of the new machine. What you buy is what you're stuck with. It is easy to cynically regard this as apple ensuring you'll replace your machine a few years down the line. My 13" MacBook Pro was bought in 2009 and has lasted almost four years. When I bought it, I got the maximum spec available and found no need to upgrade RAM or hard drive. I only needed to replace the battery. The outcome is that I've never kept any machine so long. I want to replace it, but I don't need to. I think a lot of people fall into the same camp.
As it stands, the 15.4" Retina MBP is extremely enticing, but I'm still waiting for a 13" machine with a retina display and 1 TB of SSD for less than $2,000.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mode
I was looking at getting the Dell U2711. I heard a few rumbles about the anti-glare coating. I wish i could see one before purchase.
I bought one, and returned it because of the anti-glare coating (thank you, B&H Photo for easy returns). If you like rainbow-sparkly whites, it's great... I'm using a Apple 27" now, and with a little effort not having trouble with glare, I'd still rather have a nice anti-glare monitor though...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Mann
8GB is gimped because its soldered on, if it was upgradable it would have been pretty cool, same goes with the 200GB SSD
That does not make it 'gimped', it makes it permanent to some degree. Significant difference between the two. Again, there are people who could make good use of this laptop through its lifetime with the 8 GBs of RAM with no problem. It does require that someone be careful of their buying decision, though. If they believe there's a chance they'll need more RAM down the road they should definitely spend the extra $200 for the 16 GBs.
On the note of the parts being soldered, I've read that numerous times now, but where is the confirmation? Is it based on parts which have been leaked or an actual inspection of the device? I'd love to read more about that if someone can share. Though I'm sure iFixIt will have all the information we need in short order.
As for the SSD it would be nice to upgrade that. It is a technology which is improving and growing more affordable so it is the sort of thing a person might like to upgrade at some point in the device's lifetime, but not enough of a dealbreaker to make me (at least) think twice about the purchase. Just another case where I paid for an upgrade so I knew I'd have what I needed through the laptop's lifetime. iTunes Match actually addressed my only real storage concern anyway. Everything else can be addressed smoothly through external storage. I just wanted more than 256 GBs so I didn't actually have to worry about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer
8GB is gimped. And for a Pro system entry level should be at 16GB. W're talking about a Pro system and I can punch that memory till its maxed in 5 minutes.
Doing what?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610
Apple just dropped a bomb on the PC industry with these updates.
Yeah,
Retina Display on laptop
Updated Siri
Thinner Laptop
Dumping google maps.
Who would have thunk it?? Oh wait, They have been talking about these for over 6 months!!!
I can't believe all the whining that is going on here. This thing is priced very, very aggressively for the technology in it, and while you can get more powerful machines for the same price, you can't get the same combo of 256 GB SSD, 16 gig ram, high-res screen, etc...