From the last model? Of course not. But that's almost never the case, and it's not the reason they upgrade the line in the first place. This will be very tempting to people with pre-2010 machines.
OK, but the price could have dropped a little. I don't believe the manufactoring costs to be the same...
It's funny but in my country (Czech Republic, Europe) has the price risen by 20%. I didn't believed it when I first saw it. I was thinking how greedy can they be?
Yes, but only when the CPU is working hard. For most stuff, and most of the time for most people, there will be less of a difference. CPUs have been fast enough for most things for a long time now. The SSD should speed things up a lot for certain tasks as well.,
Actually, it's when you're NOT doing CPU-intensive stuff that the new MBP will shine. Your last sentence is the important one - SSD is such a massive improvement over conventional hard disks that it's noticeable the minute you first use the computer. A faster CPU is only really noticeable when doing CPU intensive stuff - which, for most people, isn't very often.
For the casual user, simply upgrading their drive to SSD and maxing out RAM will get much of the usability benefits of a new computer. However, you miss out on new features, and you won't get the faster CPU or GPU (which is becoming increasingly important).
For me, I'll be getting the new one. Here's the way the math works.
New MBP 15", 512 GB $2799
Sell my old 17" MBP $700 (maybe more)
Net $2099 (actually, a couple hundred less because I qualify for educational purchases, but not everyone does, so we'll leave that out).
Keep an old one:
Max RAM $200
SSD $600
Upgrade to ML (which will presumably be free by the time I get my computer) $20
Net $820
So, the difference is actually only $1200. For $1200, I get a state of the art machine with warranty, even more RAM than my machine will hold, faster CPU, faster GPU, vastly better screen, and a brand new computer without all the dings and scratches and failing keyboard of my existing machine. It's not a 'no brainer', but it is a very reasonable price to upgrade.
Keep an old one:
Max RAM $200
SSD $600
Upgrade to ML (which will presumably be free by the time I get my computer) $20
Net $820
So, the difference is actually only $1200. For $1200, I get a state of the art machine with warranty, even more RAM than my machine will hold, faster CPU, faster GPU, vastly better screen, and a brand new computer without all the dings and scratches and failing keyboard of my existing machine. It's not a 'no brainer', but it is a very reasonable price to upgrade.
Where did you get your $200 figure for RAM? For what amount? If it's for 8GB, then that RAM upgrade is $60. If it's 16GB, then the price is about right, OWC offers the kit for $162, I'll round up to $200 for shipping and installation labor. But that would mean you left out the extra $200 cost to upgrade to 16GB on the new model. The MBP Retina with 16GB/512GB is $2999, making your cost difference between your two options, assuming like levels of RAM and SSD, about $1400.
Actually, it's when you're NOT doing CPU-intensive stuff that the new MBP will shine. Your last sentence is the important one - SSD is such a massive improvement over conventional hard disks that it's noticeable the minute you first use the computer. A faster CPU is only really noticeable when doing CPU intensive stuff - which, for most people, isn't very often.
For the casual user, simply upgrading their drive to SSD and maxing out RAM will get much of the usability benefits of a new computer. However, you miss out on new features, and you won't get the faster CPU or GPU (which is becoming increasingly important).
For me, I'll be getting the new one. Here's the way the math works.
New MBP 15", 512 GB $2799
Sell my old 17" MBP $700 (maybe more)
Net $2099 (actually, a couple hundred less because I qualify for educational purchases, but not everyone does, so we'll leave that out).
Keep an old one:
Max RAM $200
SSD $600
Upgrade to ML (which will presumably be free by the time I get my computer) $20
Net $820
So, the difference is actually only $1200. For $1200, I get a state of the art machine with warranty, even more RAM than my machine will hold, faster CPU, faster GPU, vastly better screen, and a brand new computer without all the dings and scratches and failing keyboard of my existing machine. It's not a 'no brainer', but it is a very reasonable price to upgrade.
You can upgrade old machines with a smaller, cheaper SSD (for the OS, applications etc), and transfer your existing HD to a special caddy in the optical drive bay. Search for "optibay" on eBay. It involves surgery on your laptop, but it's doable (that's my setup). It's probably the best route to keeping an old MacBook / MBP functional.
But if you can afford it, the new machine is awesome. Go for it.
Re: You can upgrade old machines with a smaller, cheaper SSD (for the OS, applications etc), and transfer your existing HD to a special caddy in the optical drive bay. Search for "optibay" on eBay. It involves surgery on your laptop, but it's doable (that's my setup). It's probably the best route to keeping an old MacBook / MBP functional.
Quite just did the same with a 6 year old first gen Intel Mac Book Pro and it is surprisingly snappy.
Where did you get your $200 figure for RAM? For what amount? If it's for 8GB, then that RAM upgrade is $60. If it's 16GB, then the price is about right, OWC offers the kit for $162, I'll round up to $200 for shipping and installation labor. But that would mean you left out the extra $200 cost to upgrade to 16GB on the new model. The MBP Retina with 16GB/512GB is $2999, making your cost difference between your two options, assuming like levels of RAM and SSD, about $1400.
I got the price from Otherworld Computing. And you need to use 16 GB because the base 8 GB MBP has 2 x 4 GB DIMMs. You have to dump both of them to upgrade to 16. For third party RAM, their price was around $170 last time I checked.
I could probably have given a credit for the 2x 4 GB DIMMs being replaced, but I never do that. If there's a problem, Apple wants you to bring it in with the original RAM, so I usually keep it around. The amount you can get for RAM on eBay is low enough that it's not worth selling.
Regardless of how you want to quibble about the price, the point is that the price difference between buying a new one and upgrading my old one is not as large as some people are implying.
You can upgrade old machines with a smaller, cheaper SSD (for the OS, applications etc), and transfer your existing HD to a special caddy in the optical drive bay. Search for "optibay" on eBay. It involves surgery on your laptop, but it's doable (that's my setup). It's probably the best route to keeping an old MacBook / MBP functional.
That's certainly true, but doesn't really change things. The cost of the Optibay plus smaller SSD is not all that different than the cost of the SSD I quoted.
Again, it's not worth quibbling about minor differences. The point is that you can't simply say "the new one is too expensive, so just upgrade the old one". Instead, you have to consider the cost of the upgrade plus the amount you can get for selling the old computer before making that assessment.
I could probably have given a credit for the 2x 4 GB DIMMs being replaced, but I never do that. If there's a problem, Apple wants you to bring it in with the original RAM, so I usually keep it around. The amount you can get for RAM on eBay is low enough that it's not worth selling.
That's my position on part trade-ins. I keep the original parts for diagnostic aid and warranty purposes.
Regardless of how you want to quibble about the price, the point is that the price difference between buying a new one and upgrading my old one is not as large as some people are implying.
The cost of the Optibay plus smaller SSD is not all that different than the cost of the SSD I quoted.
Again, it's not worth quibbling about minor differences. The point is that you can't simply say "the new one is too expensive, so just upgrade the old one". Instead, you have to consider the cost of the upgrade plus the amount you can get for selling the old computer before making that assessment.
You quoted 600$ for a big SSD.
Optibays go for around 15$, and a small SSD would be less than 100$. Just saw a local store advertising 120GB for 79$. If for some reason you don't buy the new machine, you really should do this upgrade, it's very much worth it.
Also, I didn't say "the new one is too expensive, just upgrade the old one". In fact, I said "if you can afford the new one, go for it". With the new machine everything is next-generation: CPU, RAM, GPU, display, SSD, ports.
If that's for real, then I wish Apple did update the iMac this summer. I didn't realize Ivy Bridge was that much better.
Ivy Bridge, clock for clock is 15% faster but they also bumped up the clock speed a little. If you compare a 2.2GHz SB to 2.7GHz IB, the latter would be 1.15 x 1.22 = 1.4x faster. As per the scores, 9501/6803 = 1.39.
The higher-clocked QM chips are more expensive though. Matching price, the IB chips are still just 15-20% faster.
The next iMac should score 10445 or something like that. But when you have scores so close together, you could switch from one machine to the other and wouldn't notice any difference. The iMac's GPU would really be its distinguishing feature.
Still a wee bit faster than the 2770 score of my MacBook (late 2006).
Hmmmmm tempting
It doesn't though. I still see 6915. I'm suprised there aren't more people wondering about this. I suppose most everyone just focuses on the top of the line model. If the 1.8ghz 13" model is almost as fast as the 2.0ghz models, I'd just opt for that model, but I suspect the graph is correct and the number is off. The 2.0 ghz 11" model w/ 8g of RAM is $50 more than the base 13" model w/ 8g of RAM, if the speed difference were just the 1% or so indicated by the scores printed here, I'd opt to save $50 and get a larger screen.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conrail
From the last model? Of course not. But that's almost never the case, and it's not the reason they upgrade the line in the first place. This will be very tempting to people with pre-2010 machines.
OK, but the price could have dropped a little. I don't believe the manufactoring costs to be the same...
It's funny but in my country (Czech Republic, Europe) has the price risen by 20%. I didn't believed it when I first saw it. I was thinking how greedy can they be?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ic70
There's something wrong with the graphic for the 13" MacBook Air.
The 1.8GHz i5 13" MacBook Air cannot have a score of 6900 based on the graph, or it's graph is wrong.
6900 is very close to 7004, but the graph shows a bigger gap.
It looks more like ~6200.
It currently reads 6197.
Still a wee bit faster than the 2770 score of my MacBook (late 2006).
Hmmmmm tempting
Actually, it's when you're NOT doing CPU-intensive stuff that the new MBP will shine. Your last sentence is the important one - SSD is such a massive improvement over conventional hard disks that it's noticeable the minute you first use the computer. A faster CPU is only really noticeable when doing CPU intensive stuff - which, for most people, isn't very often.
For the casual user, simply upgrading their drive to SSD and maxing out RAM will get much of the usability benefits of a new computer. However, you miss out on new features, and you won't get the faster CPU or GPU (which is becoming increasingly important).
For me, I'll be getting the new one. Here's the way the math works.
New MBP 15", 512 GB $2799
Sell my old 17" MBP $700 (maybe more)
Net $2099 (actually, a couple hundred less because I qualify for educational purchases, but not everyone does, so we'll leave that out).
Keep an old one:
Max RAM $200
SSD $600
Upgrade to ML (which will presumably be free by the time I get my computer) $20
Net $820
So, the difference is actually only $1200. For $1200, I get a state of the art machine with warranty, even more RAM than my machine will hold, faster CPU, faster GPU, vastly better screen, and a brand new computer without all the dings and scratches and failing keyboard of my existing machine. It's not a 'no brainer', but it is a very reasonable price to upgrade.
Where did you get your $200 figure for RAM? For what amount? If it's for 8GB, then that RAM upgrade is $60. If it's 16GB, then the price is about right, OWC offers the kit for $162, I'll round up to $200 for shipping and installation labor. But that would mean you left out the extra $200 cost to upgrade to 16GB on the new model. The MBP Retina with 16GB/512GB is $2999, making your cost difference between your two options, assuming like levels of RAM and SSD, about $1400.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Actually, it's when you're NOT doing CPU-intensive stuff that the new MBP will shine. Your last sentence is the important one - SSD is such a massive improvement over conventional hard disks that it's noticeable the minute you first use the computer. A faster CPU is only really noticeable when doing CPU intensive stuff - which, for most people, isn't very often.
For the casual user, simply upgrading their drive to SSD and maxing out RAM will get much of the usability benefits of a new computer. However, you miss out on new features, and you won't get the faster CPU or GPU (which is becoming increasingly important).
For me, I'll be getting the new one. Here's the way the math works.
New MBP 15", 512 GB $2799
Sell my old 17" MBP $700 (maybe more)
Net $2099 (actually, a couple hundred less because I qualify for educational purchases, but not everyone does, so we'll leave that out).
Keep an old one:
Max RAM $200
SSD $600
Upgrade to ML (which will presumably be free by the time I get my computer) $20
Net $820
So, the difference is actually only $1200. For $1200, I get a state of the art machine with warranty, even more RAM than my machine will hold, faster CPU, faster GPU, vastly better screen, and a brand new computer without all the dings and scratches and failing keyboard of my existing machine. It's not a 'no brainer', but it is a very reasonable price to upgrade.
You can upgrade old machines with a smaller, cheaper SSD (for the OS, applications etc), and transfer your existing HD to a special caddy in the optical drive bay. Search for "optibay" on eBay. It involves surgery on your laptop, but it's doable (that's my setup). It's probably the best route to keeping an old MacBook / MBP functional.
But if you can afford it, the new machine is awesome. Go for it.
Re: You can upgrade old machines with a smaller, cheaper SSD (for the OS, applications etc), and transfer your existing HD to a special caddy in the optical drive bay. Search for "optibay" on eBay. It involves surgery on your laptop, but it's doable (that's my setup). It's probably the best route to keeping an old MacBook / MBP functional.
Quite just did the same with a 6 year old first gen Intel Mac Book Pro and it is surprisingly snappy.
The mobile Ivy Bridge i7-3820QM @ 2.70GHz on the new MacBookPro Retina is faster than the Desktop Intel Sandybridge Core i7-2600K @ 3.40GHz
TOTAL WIN!!!
I got the price from Otherworld Computing. And you need to use 16 GB because the base 8 GB MBP has 2 x 4 GB DIMMs. You have to dump both of them to upgrade to 16. For third party RAM, their price was around $170 last time I checked.
I could probably have given a credit for the 2x 4 GB DIMMs being replaced, but I never do that. If there's a problem, Apple wants you to bring it in with the original RAM, so I usually keep it around. The amount you can get for RAM on eBay is low enough that it's not worth selling.
Regardless of how you want to quibble about the price, the point is that the price difference between buying a new one and upgrading my old one is not as large as some people are implying.
That's certainly true, but doesn't really change things. The cost of the Optibay plus smaller SSD is not all that different than the cost of the SSD I quoted.
Again, it's not worth quibbling about minor differences. The point is that you can't simply say "the new one is too expensive, so just upgrade the old one". Instead, you have to consider the cost of the upgrade plus the amount you can get for selling the old computer before making that assessment.
That's my position on part trade-ins. I keep the original parts for diagnostic aid and warranty purposes.
It's not bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
The cost of the Optibay plus smaller SSD is not all that different than the cost of the SSD I quoted.
Again, it's not worth quibbling about minor differences. The point is that you can't simply say "the new one is too expensive, so just upgrade the old one". Instead, you have to consider the cost of the upgrade plus the amount you can get for selling the old computer before making that assessment.
You quoted 600$ for a big SSD.
Optibays go for around 15$, and a small SSD would be less than 100$. Just saw a local store advertising 120GB for 79$. If for some reason you don't buy the new machine, you really should do this upgrade, it's very much worth it.
Also, I didn't say "the new one is too expensive, just upgrade the old one". In fact, I said "if you can afford the new one, go for it". With the new machine everything is next-generation: CPU, RAM, GPU, display, SSD, ports.
If that's for real, then I wish Apple did update the iMac this summer. I didn't realize Ivy Bridge was that much better.
Ivy Bridge, clock for clock is 15% faster but they also bumped up the clock speed a little. If you compare a 2.2GHz SB to 2.7GHz IB, the latter would be 1.15 x 1.22 = 1.4x faster. As per the scores, 9501/6803 = 1.39.
The higher-clocked QM chips are more expensive though. Matching price, the IB chips are still just 15-20% faster.
The next iMac should score 10445 or something like that. But when you have scores so close together, you could switch from one machine to the other and wouldn't notice any difference. The iMac's GPU would really be its distinguishing feature.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hypercommunist
It currently reads 6197.
Still a wee bit faster than the 2770 score of my MacBook (late 2006).
Hmmmmm tempting
It doesn't though. I still see 6915. I'm suprised there aren't more people wondering about this. I suppose most everyone just focuses on the top of the line model. If the 1.8ghz 13" model is almost as fast as the 2.0ghz models, I'd just opt for that model, but I suspect the graph is correct and the number is off. The 2.0 ghz 11" model w/ 8g of RAM is $50 more than the base 13" model w/ 8g of RAM, if the speed difference were just the 1% or so indicated by the scores printed here, I'd opt to save $50 and get a larger screen.