Apple rumored to pay at least $150 for MacBook Pro Retina Display panels

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  • Reply 21 of 49
    mauszmausz Posts: 243member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post





    Really? Which Windows 7 machine do you have which supports the same DPI as the MBP Retina? (Hint - there isn't one). Or are you talking about running Windows 7 in Boot Camp? If so, you just negated your argument below.

    Physical ethernet? A cheap adapter - which you leave connected to the Ethernet cable. When you come into the office, it doesn't matter whether you plug a cable into the Ethernet port or into the TB port - it's still one connection.

    Removable storage? I think you're confused as to how modern business works. Very few businesses require this and many even forbid removable storage devices for security reasons. Even if you need it, it's a simple external connector.

    Windows? Piece of cake. For $60 extra (plus the Windows site license which you probably already have), you can run it in Fusion or Parallels (or for free with other VMs or Boot Camp. The cost of being able to run both Windows and Mac apps is pretty small compared to the cost of the computer - and more importantly, compared to the cost of the people who are running the computer. If you add even incrementally to their capabilities or efficiencies, it pays for that difference many times over.


     


    One of my colleagues is using a 27" 2560x1600 monitor with dpi setting to 110%, and it works quite well...


     


    Businesses do not like adapters (which should have been free...). They get lost/stolen, in any case, they are never around when you need them.


     


    Removable storage was the wrong term used by me... I meant that business would like to be able to do simple hardware support themselves. If a hdd/ssd dies, they want to replace it, re-image it and have the employee working again within minutes, same for RAM and maybe even battery. Hardware needs to be servicable to a certain extent....

  • Reply 22 of 49

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by drblank View Post


    I can eventually see this going throughout the entire product line in a few more years.  But, they have to put a more expensive graphics chip inside which draws power, takes up room, etc.  So, I don't know if they can do it in a MBAir.



    The new Intel Ivy Bridge CPUs have integrated graphics that handle 4K displays. The graphics chips are not the problem.

  • Reply 23 of 49

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post



    Physical ethernet? A cheap adapter - which you leave connected to the Ethernet cable. When you come into the office, it doesn't matter whether you plug a cable into the Ethernet port or into the TB port - it's still one connection.


     


    Rather short sighted comment. Adapters of either kind, wired or wireless are not allowed here period, and I know this office isn't the only one. Simply for security reasons, and MAC address enforcement. 

  • Reply 24 of 49
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,217member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by drblank View Post


     


    On a side note and some will disagree with me and it is usually a price issue only.  I think Apple has the additional 8GB memory soldered on the motherboard, so it is better to do a BTO fully loaded for long term usage.  Now, I don't have confirmation on this, but if this is true, I think it might be the best. 



     


    On the thinner models like the Air, yes, all the RAM is soldered to the board. So you can't upgrade the memory after purchased. That's why it's labeled 'onboard memory'. 

  • Reply 25 of 49
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,217member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ankleskater View Post




    A fully loaded 15" MacBook Pro now approaches $4k.


     


    But let me understand this - a 17" machine might solve the problem of supplementary bulk storage?



     


    Nope. Because these are SSD and they have a max available capacity of 512GB at the moment. The best you could perhaps do is put in a second one if the larger body gives you enough room. However every pro out there is going to need like 10 times that amount of data at their hands so there will be a storage server, or at least mini rack, in play. 

  • Reply 26 of 49
    macbook promacbook pro Posts: 1,605member
    jonshf wrote: »
    This new macbook pro is going to take the market by storm, both in business and with consumers.

    Other manufacturers will not be able to come out with a similar product anytime soon. You have to realize that major changes in the OS and software have to also be made for such a machine to function. If you just put a retina display on a Windows laptop, the whole gui will just shrink and essentially be unusable. I once had a 15.4" laptop with 1920 x 1200 pixels and that caused alot of squinting and looking up really close. It was kind of ok because I was younger then but probably not healthy. A retina display is 2880 x 1800 which is out of the question unless the OS handles it properly, essentially doubling in size anything that isn't designed for retina.

    This means that Windows manufacturers have to wait for Microsoft to come out with an OS that can handle the retina experience. Unless they've been working on it within Windows 8, this isn't going to happen in the next years. Apple will then have this market all to itself for a long time and may even patent a bunch of stuff on the way. First movers must be rewarded for innovation to continue.

    I'm seeing Mac sales doubling over the next year as more retina displays populate their product line.

    mausz wrote: »
    Tried the dpi settings on windows 7 ? It's not flawless but it works.

    I do not see this new macbook pro taking the business market by storm, as business have other demands, like physical ethernet connections, removable memory/storage, and in most cases a requirement for windows within their complete infrastructure.

    jragosta wrote: »
    Really? Which Windows 7 machine do you have which supports the same DPI as the MBP Retina? (Hint - there isn't one). Or are you talking about running Windows 7 in Boot Camp? If so, you just negated your argument below.
    Physical ethernet? A cheap adapter - which you leave connected to the Ethernet cable. When you come into the office, it doesn't matter whether you plug a cable into the Ethernet port or into the TB port - it's still one connection.
    Removable storage? I think you're confused as to how modern business works. Very few businesses require this and many even forbid removable storage devices for security reasons. Even if you need it, it's a simple external connector.
    Windows? Piece of cake. For $60 extra (plus the Windows site license which you probably already have), you can run it in Fusion or Parallels (or for free with other VMs or Boot Camp. The cost of being able to run both Windows and Mac apps is pretty small compared to the cost of the computer - and more importantly, compared to the cost of the people who are running the computer. If you add even incrementally to their capabilities or efficiencies, it pays for that difference many times over.

    mausz wrote: »
    One of my colleagues is using a 27" 2560x1600 monitor with dpi setting to 110%, and it works quite well...

    Businesses do not like adapters (which should have been free...). They get lost/stolen, in any case, they are never around when you need them.

    Removable storage was the wrong term used by me... I meant that business would like to be able to do simple hardware support themselves. If a hdd/ssd dies, they want to replace it, re-image it and have the employee working again within minutes, same for RAM and maybe even battery. Hardware needs to be servicable to a certain extent....

    MacBook Pro with Retina Display will not be popular for business outside of the creative professionals market. The primary criteria for most businesses is perceived cost which is quite high for the MacBook Pro with Retina Display. Most businesses have absolutely no need for Retina Displays and are generally unwilling to pay for SSD storage as well. Furthermore, business Information Technology groups will not like the inability to replace parts themselves nor are most Information Technology groups knowledgeable about Apple support. I further submit that Information Technology professionals in many instances have a dislike for Apple due to an elitist attitude of superiority they gain from having obscure knowledge about competitors to Apple OS X.
  • Reply 27 of 49
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,217member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mausz View Post


    I do not see this new macbook pro taking the business market by storm, as business have other demands, like physical ethernet connections, removable memory/storage, and in most cases a requirement for windows within their complete infrastructure.



     


    I think you will find that if you actually talked to many businesses that would find this laptop appealing, no we aren't worried about such things. We have no issue with the whole thunderbolt to ethernet adapter, we don't care to do our own repairs and upgrades and Windows are those things that let us look outside from time to time. We also have no issue with maxing out our CTO, buying Apple Care and even that whole Joint Venture thing. This is all a business expense so we write it off in the end. 


     


    Nor will the businesses that don't really need this laptop but get it to look hip and modern and with the times care about any of that stuff because Apple covered all the issues with their adapters etc. By the time the laptop comes in a month all those pieces will be out and folks will adapt as needed. 

  • Reply 28 of 49
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,217member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by drblank View Post


    With the looks of the lead time going from 2-3 weeks early this morning to 4-5 weeks this afternoon, this product actually might sell as well as the iPad.  



     


    I wouldn't say that based on just the lead time. Truth is that that time might have gone up because Apple isn't producing these units hand over fist. probably more like 1/10th the amount of iPads being produced. Lower stock means shipping times go up. But it doesn't tell us the number of units that were available. 

  • Reply 29 of 49
    aaarrrggghaaarrrgggh Posts: 1,609member
    (deleted... Someon beat me to it.)
  • Reply 30 of 49
    macbook promacbook pro Posts: 1,605member
    charlituna wrote: »
    I think you will find that if you actually talked to many businesses that would find this laptop appealing, no we aren't worried about such things. We have no issue with the whole thunderbolt to ethernet adapter, we don't care to do our own repairs and upgrades and Windows are those things that let us look outside from time to time. We also have no issue with maxing out our CTO, buying Apple Care and even that whole Joint Venture thing. This is all a business expense so we write it off in the end. 

    Nor will the businesses that don't really need this laptop but get it to look hip and modern and with the times care about any of that stuff because Apple covered all the issues with their adapters etc. By the time the laptop comes in a month all those pieces will be out and folks will adapt as needed. 

    ???

    To which businesses are you referring?

    The Fortune 1000 didn't become some of the largest companies in the world by purchasing products and services they don't need. The MacBook Pro with Retina Display is a niche product for creative professionals. I just can't envision an accounting professional at General Electric needing a MacBook Pro with Retina Display.
  • Reply 31 of 49
    aaarrrggghaaarrrgggh Posts: 1,609member
    ]

    MacBook Pro with Retina Display will not be popular for business outside of the creative professionals market. The primary criteria for most businesses is perceived cost which is quite high for the MacBook Pro with Retina Display. Most businesses have absolutely no need for Retina Displays and are generally unwilling to pay for SSD storage as well. Furthermore, business Information Technology groups will not like the inability to replace parts themselves nor are most Information Technology groups knowledgeable about Apple support. I further submit that Information Technology professionals in many instances have a dislike for Apple due to an elitist attitude of superiority they gain from having obscure knowledge about competitors to Apple OS X.

    The technicians might not want it, but that is the CEO might push for lower TCO by not doing on-site repairs. At some point, complete spare devices are easier to support than parts.

    I would say the price to entry is a little on the high side today, and the lack of a builtin Ethernet port means that many companies would need users to VPN into the network, which can have significant licensing costs as well.
  • Reply 32 of 49
    jonshfjonshf Posts: 90member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mausz View Post


     


    One of my colleagues is using a 27" 2560x1600 monitor with dpi setting to 110%, and it works quite well...


     


    Businesses do not like adapters (which should have been free...). They get lost/stolen, in any case, they are never around when you need them.


     


    Removable storage was the wrong term used by me... I meant that business would like to be able to do simple hardware support themselves. If a hdd/ssd dies, they want to replace it, re-image it and have the employee working again within minutes, same for RAM and maybe even battery. Hardware needs to be servicable to a certain extent....



    Are you all really, actually referring to the dpi settings in Windows as a solution to a retina display? If I recall, the dpi settings only change font sizes in things like window titles and menus. Image sizes aren't changed and font sizes inside applications aren't changed. The retina display is a completely different animal and will require different tools to tame it.


     


    As to the thunderbolt/ethernet connection, I think these things will have a way of figuring themselves out. Most likely, you will plug your laptop to a thunderbolt hub which will connect to the ethernet, an extra display and whatever else, all at full speed.


     


    I think it's true (as some people have indicated) that most businesses won't have any real need for a retina display. Nevertheless, when Apple has converted all the Macs and displays to retina resolutions (probably within a year from now), it will be the new standard to judge by. Retina iPads aren't really needed by most either but businesses and consumers are still buying them en masse.

  • Reply 33 of 49
    mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by drblank View Post


    ...this product actually might sell as well as the iPad.



     


    No. That's not going to happen.


     


    But here's what probably will happen:


     


    1. Apple will be able to get a sense for how much people want this on their laptops. (Probably a lot!)


    2. They'll make and sell enough for suppliers to continue working out manufacturing kinks, improving yields and reducing costs, which will lead to:


    3. Apple expands the use of Retina displays through the product line into higher volume laptops (13" for example). Got to step 2.


     


    Next thing you know Retina displays are old news and just expected.

  • Reply 34 of 49
    focherfocher Posts: 687member


    The MacBook Pro with Retina Display is the next iteration of notebooks fully replacing desktop computers in the Mac line. One of the last bastions for Mac desktops is for creative professionals, and this machine is definitely powerful enough to fulfill the needs for a significant portion of that segment. Everything you see in this machine will filter down to the other models.


     


    Yeah, it's a niche machine. Just like Ferraris are niche cars. I would like one of each.

  • Reply 35 of 49
    focherfocher Posts: 687member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by charlituna View Post


     


    On the thinner models like the Air, yes, all the RAM is soldered to the board. So you can't upgrade the memory after purchased. That's why it's labeled 'onboard memory'. 



     


    The RAM on the MB Pro 15 w/Retina is confirmed as soldered. It's not upgradeable. From an engineering standpoint, upgradeable components take more space. The slots and the physical space around them necessary to support that design would not allow for the thinness of these machines.

  • Reply 36 of 49

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post





    MacBook Pro with Retina Display will not be popular for business outside of the creative professionals market. The primary criteria for most businesses is perceived cost which is quite high for the MacBook Pro with Retina Display. Most businesses have absolutely no need for Retina Displays and are generally unwilling to pay for SSD storage as well. Furthermore, business Information Technology groups will not like the inability to replace parts themselves nor are most Information Technology groups knowledgeable about Apple support. I further submit that Information Technology professionals in many instances have a dislike for Apple due to an elitist attitude of superiority they gain from having obscure knowledge about competitors to Apple OS X.


    I guess these are the reasons why Apple has been making such advances in the business world ;)   They are making IT, and their old ideas about the way things should be done, less important by making simpler, more durable solutions for computing.

  • Reply 37 of 49
    jonshfjonshf Posts: 90member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by focher View Post


    The MacBook Pro with Retina Display is the next iteration of notebooks fully replacing desktop computers in the Mac line. One of the last bastions for Mac desktops is for creative professionals, and this machine is definitely powerful enough to fulfill the needs for a significant portion of that segment. Everything you see in this machine will filter down to the other models.


     


    Yeah, it's a niche machine. Just like Ferraris are niche cars. I would like one of each.



    Notebooks will never completely displace desktop computers. Some people (like me) have no reason to carry around a notebook and just want a simple large screen desktop (like an iMac). The iMacs are still selling well and no reason to discontinue.


     


    The Macbook Pro with retina display is the first step to putting retina displays on all Mac products, including the laptops, the iMacs and the standalone displays.


     


    Retina displays will end up on all Apple products, from iPods to Macs and perhaps eventually the fabled TV.

  • Reply 38 of 49
    macbook promacbook pro Posts: 1,605member
    aaarrrgggh wrote: »
    The technicians might not want it, but that is the CEO might push for lower TCO by not doing on-site repairs. At some point, complete spare devices are easier to support than parts.
    I would say the price to entry is a little on the high side today, and the lack of a builtin Ethernet port means that many companies would need users to VPN into the network, which can have significant licensing costs as well.

    No. The CIO will have a subordinate perform an analysis of cost to benefit ratio (among other analyses) for adoption of the Mac platform. The cost of replacing infrastructure is too expensive initially and will be countered with the argument that "if you are going to just install Microsoft Windows on a Mac anyway, why not buy a Microsoft Windows PC." That argument is exceedingly effective against a large segment of the population. Furthermore, many companies are driven by quarterly reports which would be very poor during a mass adoption of the Mac platform.

    Please understand that while you and I understand the benefits, a large segment of enterprise Information Technology professionals hate Apple.

    It took me years to convert the local Information Technology manager at the last company at which I was employed. He eventually came to appreciate my knowledge and began to appreciate the reasons I preferred the iPhone. Once he used an iPhone it was simply a matter of time until he adopted the Mac but his subordinates knew Apple would jeopardize their jobs.

    bryanyc1 wrote: »
    I guess these are the reasons why Apple has been making such advances in the business world ;)   They are making IT, and their old ideas about the way things should be done, less important by making simpler, more durable solutions for computing.

    Apple's advances in enterprise Information Technology are largely limited to the iPad and iPhone. Furthermore, my argument is solely against mass adoption of the MacBook Pro with Retina Display by enterprises. I can't think of a single reason an accounting professional needs a MacBook Pro with Retina Display. The MacBook Air is an entirely different story.
  • Reply 39 of 49
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    jonshf wrote: »
    Notebooks will never completely displace desktop computers.

    But desktops will completely replace laptops. Thanks to tablets.
  • Reply 40 of 49
    ddarkoddarko Posts: 22member

    Quote:


    After Apple on Monday released a completely-redesigned 15-inch MacBook Pro with a 2,880-by-1,880-pixel Retina Display



     


    The resolution is 2880 by 1800 (double the previous default 1440 by 900), not 1880.  See Apple's site for confirmation:


     


    http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/features/


     


    Quote:


    When you pack over 5 million pixels into a 15.4-inch display, the results are positively stunning. The pixel density is so high, your eyes can’t discern individual pixels. Images take on a new level of realism and text is pin sharp. And with a 2880-by-1800 resolution, you can see more of your high-resolution images onscreen with pixel-for-pixel accuracy. So your best ideas can become your best work.



     


    This mistake was included in the original Apple Insider writeup and continue to be reproduced.  Can someone at Apple Insider fix it?

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