. . . . Current weather satellites can read the name on a pack of smokes from 150 miles up and military satellites are 100 times more sofisticated than they are. . . .
First, 150 miles up is almost atmospheric reentry. Weather satellites with millimeter resolution? Military remote sensing 100X more sophisticated than that?
I don't think you have even the slightest idea of what you think you're talking about.
If you want to put a stop to it, change the law - you're in the Senate.
No, this is the wrong way to do it. What you are asking for is more government control.
While the Senator's expectations might seem dramatic to us reading this here, it's by no means unwarranted, nor is it unfair. In every sense, it's what the government should do before passing laws. They should ask that private companies take things into consideration that might affect their constituents. And don't believe for a minute that the senator was alone in coming up with this. Sure, it might seem like something petty scare mongering, but look at what he's asking:
He's asking for considering and better understanding. He's asking for awareness.
While we laugh at the 4" remark, consider for a minute what would happen to someone still in the closet, making love to their partner in the privacy of their fenced in backyard? Now, is it too much to ask that Google or Apple, or whoever else, present the community with some level of notification?
He's asking, and making reasonable requests. This is the start of a discussion.
Legally, the issue about photographing someone in a public place has been well documented. If you are outdoors, there is generally no expectation of privacy (with a few exceptions). The law has been well established and affirmed all the way to the Supreme Court.
Now, if Apple and Google are doing something against the law (as in violating one of the exceptions to the above principle), then they should be punished. But asking them to not photograph public places because some senator wants to buy votes doesn't make sense. They have a right to do anything that the law allows. If you want to put a stop to it, change the law - you're in the Senate.
Oh, I guess that's it. The Senate doesn't want to change the law. It's a backdoor attempt to accomplish something that the Senate doesn't agree with. Pound sand.
The "no expectation of privacy in a public place" does not extend to private backyards and the like. I have no problem with Apple and others photographing public streets. I don't even think they should have to blur our faces when we're on a public street. I have no problem with them photographing anything that can easily be seen from the street at any resolution. But I agree that there's a privacy issue when backyards and the like are included and in some cases, I do believe there's a terrorism issue as well. And as technology evolves and resolution continues to improve and they provide viewing at any angle, they'll essentially be "looking in our windows" and I have a problem with that as well.
So while I don't agree with Schumer completely, I believe his letter was well-intentioned. And if you can get companies to agree without having to pass new laws, why bother passing new laws? Should we only do the right thing when it's a law?
It's amazing how many people on this site are willing to give up their privacy to Apple just because it's Apple.
The "no expectation of privacy in a public place" does not extend to private backyards and the like.
Actually, it does. If it's visible from public places it's fair game. Since people do not own air rights, and an ariel view is an accessible public area, within reason, it also is fair game. Not sure I like it, but, there it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb
It's amazing how many people on this site are willing to give up their privacy to Apple just because it's Apple.
I think not. It has nothing to do with Apple or not Apple. After all, Google has done essentially the same thing for years. What's amazing is how now that it's Apple, who has a good record of honoring privacy, you object to it because it's Apple.
Personally I think our privacy is slipping away in many directions faster than we can keep up. But I don't blame it on Apple.Frankly Google, FaceBook, online ad companies, and credit card companies do far more intrusive things than this every day, you just don't notice it. BTW, in Illinois, it's currently a fellony to videotape or record a police officer, even in a public place, even if he's asking for a bribe or killing someone. I doubt it's constitutional at the state or Federal level, but it's currently the law.
Dear Senator,
Don't worry. Your penis will only appear as one pixel using this technology.
So if he walks naked around his back yard without an erection, what's he got to worry about?
And if he walks around WITH one, what's he got to worry about?
... Even if he has that Viagra or Cialis sideffect where one lasts for more than four hours? Anthony Weiner indeed. Curious that Weiner once worked for Scheumer. Scheumer wouldn't want anyone on Twitter sexting the map coordinates to Weiner's back yard.
The ones who actually listen to what the country wants - like the Tea Party candidates that got elected in the 2008 elections. That's for another thread on another website, though.
Back in 2004 I was taking drafting and GIS courses. One project I did was to take an actual rail car chlorine spill and model it using software. I then showedhow that spill would have affected my own city. I even contacted the EPA for information on the size and location of the hole in the tank car. In doing on line research on tank cars (size, volume, thickness) some sites had all the information available. Some sites (railroad companies) had removed the information after 9/11. Like that would automatically remove all knowledge of tank car specifications. Heck, even the EPA was glad to help once I explained who I was and what I was doing. I think I even sent a copy of my project to the EPA contact. I even presented my project to the local emergency planning committee and the fire department. Some of them seemed impressed and no one worried that I might be a terrorist.
Unbelievable, concerned for privacy!? Surely not the same Senator Schumer that was a signatory to the Defense Authorization Act? The one allowing for Military Drone Operations over the Continental United States. This from the Government of warranties wire taps and electronic this and that. Oh and companies like Axciom, Google et-al get no mention....?
From Apocalypse Now: Captain Willard "Oh man... the bullshit piled up so fast in Vietnam, you needed wings to stay above it. "
Comments
Really? So which ones are useful?
There's an app for that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mechanic
. . . . Current weather satellites can read the name on a pack of smokes from 150 miles up and military satellites are 100 times more sofisticated than they are. . . .
First, 150 miles up is almost atmospheric reentry. Weather satellites with millimeter resolution? Military remote sensing 100X more sophisticated than that?
I don't think you have even the slightest idea of what you think you're talking about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
If you want to put a stop to it, change the law - you're in the Senate.
No, this is the wrong way to do it. What you are asking for is more government control.
While the Senator's expectations might seem dramatic to us reading this here, it's by no means unwarranted, nor is it unfair. In every sense, it's what the government should do before passing laws. They should ask that private companies take things into consideration that might affect their constituents. And don't believe for a minute that the senator was alone in coming up with this. Sure, it might seem like something petty scare mongering, but look at what he's asking:
He's asking for considering and better understanding. He's asking for awareness.
While we laugh at the 4" remark, consider for a minute what would happen to someone still in the closet, making love to their partner in the privacy of their fenced in backyard? Now, is it too much to ask that Google or Apple, or whoever else, present the community with some level of notification?
He's asking, and making reasonable requests. This is the start of a discussion.
So really, you have a choice.
A simple letter or a law.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Actually, he's just plain wrong.
Legally, the issue about photographing someone in a public place has been well documented. If you are outdoors, there is generally no expectation of privacy (with a few exceptions). The law has been well established and affirmed all the way to the Supreme Court.
Now, if Apple and Google are doing something against the law (as in violating one of the exceptions to the above principle), then they should be punished. But asking them to not photograph public places because some senator wants to buy votes doesn't make sense. They have a right to do anything that the law allows. If you want to put a stop to it, change the law - you're in the Senate.
Oh, I guess that's it. The Senate doesn't want to change the law. It's a backdoor attempt to accomplish something that the Senate doesn't agree with. Pound sand.
The "no expectation of privacy in a public place" does not extend to private backyards and the like. I have no problem with Apple and others photographing public streets. I don't even think they should have to blur our faces when we're on a public street. I have no problem with them photographing anything that can easily be seen from the street at any resolution. But I agree that there's a privacy issue when backyards and the like are included and in some cases, I do believe there's a terrorism issue as well. And as technology evolves and resolution continues to improve and they provide viewing at any angle, they'll essentially be "looking in our windows" and I have a problem with that as well.
So while I don't agree with Schumer completely, I believe his letter was well-intentioned. And if you can get companies to agree without having to pass new laws, why bother passing new laws? Should we only do the right thing when it's a law?
It's amazing how many people on this site are willing to give up their privacy to Apple just because it's Apple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb
The "no expectation of privacy in a public place" does not extend to private backyards and the like.
Actually, it does. If it's visible from public places it's fair game. Since people do not own air rights, and an ariel view is an accessible public area, within reason, it also is fair game. Not sure I like it, but, there it is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb
It's amazing how many people on this site are willing to give up their privacy to Apple just because it's Apple.
I think not. It has nothing to do with Apple or not Apple. After all, Google has done essentially the same thing for years. What's amazing is how now that it's Apple, who has a good record of honoring privacy, you object to it because it's Apple.
Personally I think our privacy is slipping away in many directions faster than we can keep up. But I don't blame it on Apple.Frankly Google, FaceBook, online ad companies, and credit card companies do far more intrusive things than this every day, you just don't notice it. BTW, in Illinois, it's currently a fellony to videotape or record a police officer, even in a public place, even if he's asking for a bribe or killing someone. I doubt it's constitutional at the state or Federal level, but it's currently the law.
So if he walks naked around his back yard without an erection, what's he got to worry about?
And if he walks around WITH one, what's he got to worry about?
... Even if he has that Viagra or Cialis sideffect where one lasts for more than four hours? Anthony Weiner indeed. Curious that Weiner once worked for Scheumer. Scheumer wouldn't want anyone on Twitter sexting the map coordinates to Weiner's back yard.
The ones who actually listen to what the country wants - like the Tea Party candidates that got elected in the 2008 elections. That's for another thread on another website, though.
It's amazing how many people on this site are willing to give up their privacy to Apple just because it's Apple.
The Senator adresses his letter to both Google and Apple, major players of the map business.
Back in 2004 I was taking drafting and GIS courses. One project I did was to take an actual rail car chlorine spill and model it using software. I then showedhow that spill would have affected my own city. I even contacted the EPA for information on the size and location of the hole in the tank car. In doing on line research on tank cars (size, volume, thickness) some sites had all the information available. Some sites (railroad companies) had removed the information after 9/11. Like that would automatically remove all knowledge of tank car specifications. Heck, even the EPA was glad to help once I explained who I was and what I was doing. I think I even sent a copy of my project to the EPA contact. I even presented my project to the local emergency planning committee and the fire department. Some of them seemed impressed and no one worried that I might be a terrorist.
Unbelievable, concerned for privacy!? Surely not the same Senator Schumer that was a signatory to the Defense Authorization Act? The one allowing for Military Drone Operations over the Continental United States. This from the Government of warranties wire taps and electronic this and that. Oh and companies like Axciom, Google et-al get no mention....?
From Apocalypse Now: Captain Willard "Oh man... the bullshit piled up so fast in Vietnam, you needed wings to stay above it. "
Sound familiar?