Now that we have the new Retina MacBook Pros, is it too early to start dreaming about next year's update? For those of us passing on the delicious, spanking new 15" MBPw/R, I say "No."
In additions to the amazing new form factor, USB 3.0, sound system, and SSD, I'd like to see just a few more enhancements with the "Haswell" model next year:
- improved battery life: Haswell is supposed to be a great new architecture designed to drastically improve laptop battery performance. Let's get these MBPs to 10 hours.
- 802.11ac: 5G wifi will not only offer better wireless performance for AirPlay and wireless transfers between SSD storage devices, but it will also help to achieve improved battery life.
- Siri: I know this is obviously coming with a future edition of OS X, but a significant prerequisite is sufficient microphone hardware to correctly understand the speaker...I hope this hardware makes its way into the next model (and Siri into the next version of OS X).
Any other thoughs?
That doesn't mean Apple will never again offer a 17" MacBook.
When they can offer a 17" Retina MBP at a reasonable price, I'd bet good money it returns in maybe 3-5 years.
Yields will improve such that Apple will be able to offer a 17" rMBP probably in 2013 or, at the latest, in 2014. The ability to offer one doesn't guarantee that they will, but the current inability to offer one probably explains why Apple dropped the 17" model from the line.
Yields will improve such that Apple will be able to offer a 17" rMBP probably in 2013 or, at the latest, in 2014. The ability to offer one doesn't guarantee that they will, but the current inability to offer one probably explains why Apple dropped the 17" model from the line.
The ability to offer one doesn't guarantee that they will, but the current inability to offer one probably explains why Apple dropped the 17" model from the line.
No, that doesn't explain it at all. They kept the old 15" around even though they introduced the retina 15". They kept the old 13" around even though there's currently no retina 13", and despite the knowledge that there will be one in the near future. They would have kept the old 17" around even without a retina 17" if they ever planned to make a retina 17".
The only conceivable shot at getting a 17" back is this time right now in the interim between the retina 15" launch and retina 13" launch. Apple took the 17" away and is now listening for an uproar from a large percentage of users that demand the 17" back.
At best they're hearing a dull murmur. The 17" doesn't matter to enough people for it to stick around.
That would be about as enjoyable as 3D movies, most of which aren't worth the extra cost of admission.
By the way Siri is interesting but it really need to move to your Mac and be taught there. That is Siri need to learn from your system and interact with it in an intelligent way. In effect Siri becomes sort of an AI replacement for Finder. You hard disk in effect becomes home base and the starting point for all activities that Siri may perform.
Siri may be OK for a handheld device as it is a different use case. On the desktop Siri should behave like your hard disk is the center of your world or an onion. Your disk is is the center of that onion and the Internet represents the various layers of the onion. Thus Siri shoUld prioritize handling the knowledge on the disk first and then use the various layers of the Internet to process you information needs.
In essence this would put an artificial intelligence or agent right in our computer. Ideally one that works intelligently with Apples Siri servers to expand your reach. I fully expect that we are a long way from Star Trek like computer interaction but I don't see any problem with being able to replace Finder operation, local and Internet search, file dialogs and the like with voice interaction. It should be a snap to say open a Memo ( or E-Mail ), to xxxxx, the subject of which is: xxxxx ccccc bbbbb rrrr and have a memo template filled out and ready for dictation. Doing so without going to Apples servers would likely make this AI more useful than Siri for many businesses. The sending of so much information to Apple is a serious security issue for some companies.
So yeah Siri like AI would be most welcomed in Mac OS but make it a local AI that the local user has control of.
Very well said! Compare the total lack of interest to the near panic from the MAc Pro crowd. Mac Pro users very much do want a new machine and are very vocal about it. The reality is the 17" got replaced by a better machine for most users when the retina machine came out.
No, that doesn't explain it at all. They kept the old 15" around even though they introduced the retina 15". They kept the old 13" around even though there's currently no retina 13", and despite the knowledge that there will be one in the near future. They would have kept the old 17" around even without a retina 17" if they ever planned to make a retina 17".
The only conceivable shot at getting a 17" back is this time right now in the interim between the retina 15" launch and retina 13" launch. Apple took the 17" away and is now listening for an uproar from a large percentage of users that demand the 17" back.
At best they're hearing a dull murmur. The 17" doesn't matter to enough people for it to stick around.
By the way Siri is interesting but it really need to move to your Mac and be taught there. That is Siri need to learn from your system and interact with it in an intelligent way. In effect Siri becomes sort of an AI replacement for Finder. You hard disk in effect becomes home base and the starting point for all activities that Siri may perform.
In essence this would put an artificial intelligence or agent right in our computer. Ideally one that works intelligently with Apples Siri servers to expand your reach. I fully expect that we are a long way from Star Trek like computer interaction but I don't see any problem with being able to replace Finder operation, local and Internet search, file dialogs and the like with voice interaction. It should be a snap to say open a Memo ( or E-Mail ), to xxxxx, the subject of which is: xxxxx ccccc bbbbb rrrr and have a memo template filled out and ready for dictation. Doing so without going to Apples servers would likely make this AI more useful than Siri for many businesses. The sending of so much information to Apple is a serious security issue for some companies.
So yeah Siri like AI would be most welcomed in Mac OS but make it a local AI that the local user has control of.
Ooh, how about this:
Siri with action-as-you-speak. A system of action-response with mid-action deletion or retraction, and visual feedback all along the way.
So let's use your example as, well, an example! Say you're typing a response to a post in a thread and you suddenly think of an answer to an e-mail you were sent. Hit Function twice and Siri starts listening with her usual bee-beep.
"Send an e-mail reply to Scott Forstall about Siri on the desktop."
"Send an" narrows it down to Messages and Mail (and… ugh… Twitter and Facebook…), "e-mail" solidifies the application being used, "Scott Forstall" is the recipient of the message, and "reply" tells Siri to prepare to look through the titles of all e-mails from Scott Forstall. "About" is the delineator for when Siri should start listening for the title, and "Siri on the desktop" is the string in the title that she should look to match.
Wait a second or so or just keep talking. Siri pulls down the standard Mail message window with the commands you've already given her in place, greying out the rest of the UI to show that this is what you're working on right now.
Dictate the message, finish up, and hit Function again (or you can just wait a few seconds). Siri'll ask if you want to send it, hit the button or reply vocally. The important thing is that all this happens visually as you're doing it so that you know it's happening properly. If something isn't right (not with dictation, with the commands Siri has executed), the best thing I can think of is having a dedicated phrase (or set thereof) for her to always be listening for. So you're telling Siri to do something and she does it wrong. You say,
"Siri, no, that's wrong." or "That's wrong, Siri." or "Siri, that's wrong." or "No, Siri, that's wrong."
These phrases pull triple duty. First, they give Siri two to three key sets of phonemes to listen for that wouldn't be put together for a different reason. Second, they are natural speaking phrases. This is stuff you'd say to a human, not a block of one-word commands like a computer of old would be forced to need. Third, look at all four of those phrases. What do they remind you of? Admonishing a child? Well, now. What have we here.
If the above phrases are used to catch mistakes with that in mind, we are psychologically tuned toward, not acceptance of the mistakes, but giving them more leeway. Users don't even have to be told in ads or by an Apple Store employee in demonstration "think of Siri as a child learning about the world around her", because those phrases do that for us. This in turn also makes users subconsciously less likely to become frustrated by an incorrect action their computer has performed. If the user is fully aware that it is teaching the computer something (and not feeling like it's the other way around) like a parent would a child, they'll be more patient with its foibles until Siri starts to get things correctly more often.
Anyway, if you make a mistake, say the phrase, and then without having to pause, simply repeat the original command you gave it and watch to see that Siri does it correctly. If it is not again corrected, the delivery of both the first and nth commands are tagged to the accepted actions of the nth command for future reference.
At best they're hearing a dull murmur. The 17" doesn't matter to enough people for it to stick around.
Enough of them were likely placated by the rMBP option to keep the rage minimized. It was strategic to do this simultaneous with the release of an updated design. Now the extra resolution doesn't truly make up for the real estate offered by the 17", but it's a very nice computer. Personally I have little reason to update my notebook this generation. There isn't enough of a performance advantage for me personally.
LED Screen Keyboard.... The screens keyboard can change the letters according to other users language and be used as a drawing tool, writing tool, and preserve application space on top by placing the UI buttons on the bottom, rather than on top. For example the safari url bar and bookmarks should show up on the top area of the screen keyboard and users can switch tabs with multitouch on the bottom of the screen or use the trackpads swipe gesture. The LED Screen can save space on top for better Content experience or funtion as an extension of game content, with the ability of games to customize the keyboards to their UI Desires, and create custom buttons for actions in the games, and blacking out all the unused keys, or placing more game functions to use in the game with the multitouch screen keyboard.
I just bought a pimped out retina, and i have a few wishes for NOW.
1) more storage space. .7Terrabytes fully loaded is not in line with what i expect for a next gen machine. I demand that the next has at least 2 tb if not more.
2) update the external disk drive to do blueray burning.
3) pressure angle sensitive wacom centique like drawing screen.
1) more storage space. .7Terrabytes fully loaded is not in line with what i expect for a next gen machine. I demand that the next has at least 2 tb if not more.
2) update the external disk drive to do blueray burning.
3) pressure angle sensitive wacom centique like drawing screen.
1. Not going to happen. First because not even 2TB 2.5" spinning HDDs exist yet, second because unless those new Samsung chips actually get into production in this DECADE, we're stuck at a slow climb up the NAND capacity scale.
2. Never going to happen.
3. It's a laptop, not a tablet. Only one device will have that.
I just bought a pimped out retina, and i have a few wishes for NOW.
1) more storage space. .7Terrabytes fully loaded is not in line with what i expect for a next gen machine. I demand that the next has at least 2 tb if not more.
Your first expectation shows very little grasp on reality. The problems with NAND are listed all over the web. Google is your friend there, although they may later attempt to influence you to buy an ssd by using this information. The only way you're likely to see what you want in the next couple years is if they offer these machines with multiple stick ssds. At some point available PCI lanes become an issue. "Next generation" is just marketing anyway, and you fell for it (not to suggest that Apple uses those buzz words, but some of the review sites do).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
3. It's a laptop, not a tablet. Only one device will have that.
Speaking of number 3 there, I'd really enjoy a pressure sensitive ipad with strong drivers. Wacom is a very evil brand. They take forever to repair anything (if I need repairs, I buy a new one, even under warranty or use an old one), their quality control isn't that great, they're known for cheap soldering jobs on their cables, and while their driver support used to be amazing, it has been slipping. I can tear up about one surface a year, and now the new ones don't even have a user replaceable surface. This includes the cintiqs, which dissuaded me from buying the 24".
The simplist answer is that the 17" MacBook would confuse buyers. They would be faced with the choice between an ultra high resolution 15" laptop, and a cheaper laptop with a larger 17" display. Since volume is the key to bringing down the retina display prices, it wouldn't have served to have the 17" cannibalizing high end retina sales.
Now there's a straightforward high end: the retina MacBooks.
Another possibility is that Apple would rather sell users a laptop and a desktop computer. The 17" MacBook was a great solution for those who's laptop was the sole computer, and needed a large display for video or photo editing. Now Apple has a better shot at selling such users an iMac. If this is the strategy, then no more 17"
Not to say that sales weren't the reason it was axed. That would be too bad if that's the reason, since it suggests that Apple would rather take the easy path as opposed to revising a design to add value and boost sales. If it was due to sales, then the next model to be EOL is the Mac Pro, no matter what Cook recently implied. Then look for an iMac model to be axed, since not all iMac models sell equally well.
The simplist answer is that the 17" MacBook would confuse buyers.
Or it wasn't selling. That's probably it.
They would be faced with the choice between an ultra high resolution 15" laptop, and a cheaper laptop with a larger 17" display. Since volume is the key to bringing down the retina display prices, it wouldn't have served to have the 17" cannibalizing high end retina sales.
And since that wouldn't have happened by any stretch of the imagination, given that it isn't happening with the 13" Air and 13" Pro, it's probably because it wasn't selling.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
You better get annoyed, then. It's not coming back.
From where did you pull that nugget of wisdom?
Originally Posted by Junkyard Dawg
From where did you pull that nugget of wisdom?
From the complete removal of the 17" MacBook Pro from Apple's website everywhere but the refurb store and support pages.
Everything you said, Plus 3D.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
From the complete removal of the 17" MacBook Pro from Apple's website everywhere but the refurb store and support pages.
That doesn't mean Apple will never again offer a 17" MacBook.
When they can offer a 17" Retina MBP at a reasonable price, I'd bet good money it returns in maybe 3-5 years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Junkyard Dawg
That doesn't mean Apple will never again offer a 17" MacBook.
When they can offer a 17" Retina MBP at a reasonable price, I'd bet good money it returns in maybe 3-5 years.
Yields will improve such that Apple will be able to offer a 17" rMBP probably in 2013 or, at the latest, in 2014. The ability to offer one doesn't guarantee that they will, but the current inability to offer one probably explains why Apple dropped the 17" model from the line.
Or sales sucked!
Sometimes the simple answer makes the most sense.
Originally Posted by mcarling
The ability to offer one doesn't guarantee that they will, but the current inability to offer one probably explains why Apple dropped the 17" model from the line.
No, that doesn't explain it at all. They kept the old 15" around even though they introduced the retina 15". They kept the old 13" around even though there's currently no retina 13", and despite the knowledge that there will be one in the near future. They would have kept the old 17" around even without a retina 17" if they ever planned to make a retina 17".
The only conceivable shot at getting a 17" back is this time right now in the interim between the retina 15" launch and retina 13" launch. Apple took the 17" away and is now listening for an uproar from a large percentage of users that demand the 17" back.
At best they're hearing a dull murmur. The 17" doesn't matter to enough people for it to stick around.
That would be about as enjoyable as 3D movies, most of which aren't worth the extra cost of admission.
By the way Siri is interesting but it really need to move to your Mac and be taught there. That is Siri need to learn from your system and interact with it in an intelligent way. In effect Siri becomes sort of an AI replacement for Finder. You hard disk in effect becomes home base and the starting point for all activities that Siri may perform.
Siri may be OK for a handheld device as it is a different use case. On the desktop Siri should behave like your hard disk is the center of your world or an onion. Your disk is is the center of that onion and the Internet represents the various layers of the onion. Thus Siri shoUld prioritize handling the knowledge on the disk first and then use the various layers of the Internet to process you information needs.
In essence this would put an artificial intelligence or agent right in our computer. Ideally one that works intelligently with Apples Siri servers to expand your reach. I fully expect that we are a long way from Star Trek like computer interaction but I don't see any problem with being able to replace Finder operation, local and Internet search, file dialogs and the like with voice interaction. It should be a snap to say open a Memo ( or E-Mail ), to xxxxx, the subject of which is: xxxxx ccccc bbbbb rrrr and have a memo template filled out and ready for dictation. Doing so without going to Apples servers would likely make this AI more useful than Siri for many businesses. The sending of so much information to Apple is a serious security issue for some companies.
So yeah Siri like AI would be most welcomed in Mac OS but make it a local AI that the local user has control of.
Originally Posted by wizard69
By the way Siri is interesting but it really need to move to your Mac and be taught there. That is Siri need to learn from your system and interact with it in an intelligent way. In effect Siri becomes sort of an AI replacement for Finder. You hard disk in effect becomes home base and the starting point for all activities that Siri may perform.
In essence this would put an artificial intelligence or agent right in our computer. Ideally one that works intelligently with Apples Siri servers to expand your reach. I fully expect that we are a long way from Star Trek like computer interaction but I don't see any problem with being able to replace Finder operation, local and Internet search, file dialogs and the like with voice interaction. It should be a snap to say open a Memo ( or E-Mail ), to xxxxx, the subject of which is: xxxxx ccccc bbbbb rrrr and have a memo template filled out and ready for dictation. Doing so without going to Apples servers would likely make this AI more useful than Siri for many businesses. The sending of so much information to Apple is a serious security issue for some companies.
So yeah Siri like AI would be most welcomed in Mac OS but make it a local AI that the local user has control of.
Ooh, how about this:
Siri with action-as-you-speak. A system of action-response with mid-action deletion or retraction, and visual feedback all along the way.
So let's use your example as, well, an example! Say you're typing a response to a post in a thread and you suddenly think of an answer to an e-mail you were sent. Hit Function twice and Siri starts listening with her usual bee-beep.
"Send an e-mail reply to Scott Forstall about Siri on the desktop."
"Send an" narrows it down to Messages and Mail (and… ugh… Twitter and Facebook…), "e-mail" solidifies the application being used, "Scott Forstall" is the recipient of the message, and "reply" tells Siri to prepare to look through the titles of all e-mails from Scott Forstall. "About" is the delineator for when Siri should start listening for the title, and "Siri on the desktop" is the string in the title that she should look to match.
Wait a second or so or just keep talking. Siri pulls down the standard Mail message window with the commands you've already given her in place, greying out the rest of the UI to show that this is what you're working on right now.
Dictate the message, finish up, and hit Function again (or you can just wait a few seconds). Siri'll ask if you want to send it, hit the button or reply vocally. The important thing is that all this happens visually as you're doing it so that you know it's happening properly. If something isn't right (not with dictation, with the commands Siri has executed), the best thing I can think of is having a dedicated phrase (or set thereof) for her to always be listening for. So you're telling Siri to do something and she does it wrong. You say,
"Siri, no, that's wrong." or "That's wrong, Siri." or "Siri, that's wrong." or "No, Siri, that's wrong."
These phrases pull triple duty. First, they give Siri two to three key sets of phonemes to listen for that wouldn't be put together for a different reason. Second, they are natural speaking phrases. This is stuff you'd say to a human, not a block of one-word commands like a computer of old would be forced to need. Third, look at all four of those phrases. What do they remind you of? Admonishing a child? Well, now. What have we here.
If the above phrases are used to catch mistakes with that in mind, we are psychologically tuned toward, not acceptance of the mistakes, but giving them more leeway. Users don't even have to be told in ads or by an Apple Store employee in demonstration "think of Siri as a child learning about the world around her", because those phrases do that for us. This in turn also makes users subconsciously less likely to become frustrated by an incorrect action their computer has performed. If the user is fully aware that it is teaching the computer something (and not feeling like it's the other way around) like a parent would a child, they'll be more patient with its foibles until Siri starts to get things correctly more often.
Anyway, if you make a mistake, say the phrase, and then without having to pause, simply repeat the original command you gave it and watch to see that Siri does it correctly. If it is not again corrected, the delivery of both the first and nth commands are tagged to the accepted actions of the nth command for future reference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
At best they're hearing a dull murmur. The 17" doesn't matter to enough people for it to stick around.
Enough of them were likely placated by the rMBP option to keep the rage minimized. It was strategic to do this simultaneous with the release of an updated design. Now the extra resolution doesn't truly make up for the real estate offered by the 17", but it's a very nice computer. Personally I have little reason to update my notebook this generation. There isn't enough of a performance advantage for me personally.
LED Screen Keyboard.... The screens keyboard can change the letters according to other users language and be used as a drawing tool, writing tool, and preserve application space on top by placing the UI buttons on the bottom, rather than on top. For example the safari url bar and bookmarks should show up on the top area of the screen keyboard and users can switch tabs with multitouch on the bottom of the screen or use the trackpads swipe gesture. The LED Screen can save space on top for better Content experience or funtion as an extension of game content, with the ability of games to customize the keyboards to their UI Desires, and create custom buttons for actions in the games, and blacking out all the unused keys, or placing more game functions to use in the game with the multitouch screen keyboard.
I just bought a pimped out retina, and i have a few wishes for NOW.
1) more storage space. .7Terrabytes fully loaded is not in line with what i expect for a next gen machine. I demand that the next has at least 2 tb if not more.
2) update the external disk drive to do blueray burning.
3) pressure angle sensitive wacom centique like drawing screen.
Originally Posted by ClementineOrange
1) more storage space. .7Terrabytes fully loaded is not in line with what i expect for a next gen machine. I demand that the next has at least 2 tb if not more.
2) update the external disk drive to do blueray burning.
3) pressure angle sensitive wacom centique like drawing screen.
1. Not going to happen. First because not even 2TB 2.5" spinning HDDs exist yet, second because unless those new Samsung chips actually get into production in this DECADE, we're stuck at a slow climb up the NAND capacity scale.
2. Never going to happen.
3. It's a laptop, not a tablet. Only one device will have that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClementineOrange
I just bought a pimped out retina, and i have a few wishes for NOW.
1) more storage space. .7Terrabytes fully loaded is not in line with what i expect for a next gen machine. I demand that the next has at least 2 tb if not more.
Your first expectation shows very little grasp on reality. The problems with NAND are listed all over the web. Google is your friend there, although they may later attempt to influence you to buy an ssd by using this information. The only way you're likely to see what you want in the next couple years is if they offer these machines with multiple stick ssds. At some point available PCI lanes become an issue. "Next generation" is just marketing anyway, and you fell for it (not to suggest that Apple uses those buzz words, but some of the review sites do).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
3. It's a laptop, not a tablet. Only one device will have that.
Speaking of number 3 there, I'd really enjoy a pressure sensitive ipad with strong drivers. Wacom is a very evil brand. They take forever to repair anything (if I need repairs, I buy a new one, even under warranty or use an old one), their quality control isn't that great, they're known for cheap soldering jobs on their cables, and while their driver support used to be amazing, it has been slipping. I can tear up about one surface a year, and now the new ones don't even have a user replaceable surface. This includes the cintiqs, which dissuaded me from buying the 24".
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
Or sales sucked!
Sometimes the simple answer makes the most sense.
The simplist answer is that the 17" MacBook would confuse buyers. They would be faced with the choice between an ultra high resolution 15" laptop, and a cheaper laptop with a larger 17" display. Since volume is the key to bringing down the retina display prices, it wouldn't have served to have the 17" cannibalizing high end retina sales.
Now there's a straightforward high end: the retina MacBooks.
Another possibility is that Apple would rather sell users a laptop and a desktop computer. The 17" MacBook was a great solution for those who's laptop was the sole computer, and needed a large display for video or photo editing. Now Apple has a better shot at selling such users an iMac. If this is the strategy, then no more 17"
Not to say that sales weren't the reason it was axed. That would be too bad if that's the reason, since it suggests that Apple would rather take the easy path as opposed to revising a design to add value and boost sales. If it was due to sales, then the next model to be EOL is the Mac Pro, no matter what Cook recently implied. Then look for an iMac model to be axed, since not all iMac models sell equally well.
Originally Posted by Junkyard Dawg
The simplist answer is that the 17" MacBook would confuse buyers.
Or it wasn't selling. That's probably it.
They would be faced with the choice between an ultra high resolution 15" laptop, and a cheaper laptop with a larger 17" display. Since volume is the key to bringing down the retina display prices, it wouldn't have served to have the 17" cannibalizing high end retina sales.
And since that wouldn't have happened by any stretch of the imagination, given that it isn't happening with the 13" Air and 13" Pro, it's probably because it wasn't selling.
Wow, dude. I am just blown away by the RMBP. Almost like I want to return it because I feel like I don't deserve it... Not!
Battery life is quite good. Can it be better? Sure. More importantly though is ~INDUCTIVE CHARGING~ ...time for it.
5G WiFi, Siri, not too concerned about that.
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