San Diego school district buys 26K iPads for students

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 82
    blursdblursd Posts: 123member


    I find this interesting ... given that for the last four years the San Diego Unified School District has been shuttering schools and laying off thousands of support staff and teachers.  I was watching a report the other day on the local news that was talking about how the School District is still operating on a several million dollar budget shortfall, and was expected to cut back on several services. 


     


    While I think buying 26K iPads would help the educational process I have to question, at least tacitly, the wisdom in spending such an exorbitant amount of money when they don't have any to begin with ... 

  • Reply 42 of 82
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,217member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post


     


    That being said, I AM in support of technology such as iPads in class. Wholeheartedly, at that. Whatever helps, helps. Though reliance on technology to make a subject more interesting or palatable is a bad habit, but one that begins with students, not teachers. 


     



     


    Tech in classrooms can be used to address a fundamental issue that many schools either don't recognize or simply choose to ignore. Not all people learn the same. Some people can read a book and they get the information. Some can't. I would say many can't. And yet they are all taught the same because of the inherent limits in the current tech. Well thought out and designed tech based tools can get you the text for those that learn that way, the visuals for those that learn that way. 


     


  • Reply 43 of 82
    adamcadamc Posts: 582member


    Sorry to say this your wife is teaching in a school that doesn't know what it is doing.


     


    You mean not even one teacher takes the initiative to make the effort to integrate a great learning tool into the system.


     


    Then it says a lot about the administration of the school including your good wife.

  • Reply 44 of 82
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,217member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post





    Absolutely. While properly implemented and with a parent/teacher who is fully qualified, home schooling CAN provide a superior education. Unfortunately, in far too many cases, it's "we don't want our kids being exposed to science or kids from other cultures" so the kids end up getting short-changed.

    While there are idiots and bigots in public schools, too, at least the kids get a new teacher every year - so it is unlikely that they'll never be exposed to real science.


     


    Unless your kids are in a school where the whole district believes the same thing and dictates what can and can't be taught and demands that 'false' ideas be stripped from the textbooks being used so the kiddies aren't exposed to that evil. There are a couple of districts in Texas that are that way. 

  • Reply 45 of 82
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,217member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Squeak View Post


     Since the books purchased via the iBooks store belong to the student and require an Apple ID, .



     


    And if the school owns that Apple ID, they not the students own the books. Classes were the kids are old enough might utilize things like FaceTime or iMessages for pen pals or such but even then the store ID can be owned by the school and totally out of student control. 


     


    Or if they are giving the iPads to the kids and want them to have 'ownership' of the apps to keep for all time, they can simply require the parents to sign up an Apple ID on behalf of the kids and hand it over to the kiddies when Mommy and Daddy see fit. that's what my parents are doing for my brothers. Caleb (15) has an ID with no credit card on it and if he wants to buy something like a game he has to use his allowance and get a gift card to pay for it (his fav birthday present in fact). If it is for school, Dad gifts it to him). But Ethan and Ian (only 12) don't have control of their IDs yet and won't until they are 13 at which time they play by the same rules. 

  • Reply 46 of 82
    squeaksqueak Posts: 26member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by charlituna View Post


     


    And if the school owns that Apple ID, they not the students own the books. 



     


    That is strictly forbidden in the T&C's of purchasing the books. Due to the lower costs of the books ($15 vs $75), the book is intended for use by one and only one student.


     


    http://www.apple.com/education/volume-purchase-program/faq.html#ownership


     


     


     


    Quote:


    Who owns the content purchased by an institution through the Volume Purchase Program?


    In the case of books, the student as the end user must redeem the book using his or her own Apple ID, and the student owns the book. Please see the iOS 5 Education Deployment Guide for more information.



  • Reply 47 of 82

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jasenj1 View Post


    And do they have funding for the ongoing IT infrastructure required? Do they have a curriculum strategy? Are they providing training for the teachers?


     


    Sorry, but color me skeptical. Shiny toys are nice, but schools (at least in my area) are consumed with drilling students to pass the standardized tests. Actual education is secondary to assuring the kids can pass the tests.


     


    - Jasen.



    You apparently don't understand the average school system very well. First, every school system has some kind of IT infrastructure in place. Even the smallest school system has a lot of computers for staff and teachers. Even the smallest have some computers in the classrooms too. Interestingly enough, because Macs are easier to manage, a much larger percent of school systems use Macs then in the business sector. 


    Any purchases for the classrooms require a proposal by the teachers to show how the computers or iPads are going to be used in the classroom to promote education. This gets special attention if it can improve classroom scores. Unlike, how you may be imagining it, a purchase of this nature is done very deliberately and carefully with a thought out plan behind it. Classroom sizes are increasing while more is being required from the teacher. iPads allows more students to be engaged in learning; especially the slower and the faster learners. Because the learning modules are designed to appeal to more of the senses, the natural curiosity of the student is awakened, and more is learned. There is much more to the utilization of iPads in the classroom, but what I just described is the core if it.


     


    Full disclosure: I am not an educator, nor have any horses in that race. I'm just well informed.

  • Reply 48 of 82
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,217member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by kkerst View Post


    But why do the kids still suck at basic math skills? 


     


    One reason for that is that some kids don't learn the same as others. They can't just read some abstract instructions in a book or hear them said by a teacher and 'get it'. They need to see it in a more practical light. See it applied somehow in a way that relates to them. Things like those corny Schoolhouse Rock videos make sense to them. Activities like trying to measure the height of a flagpole based on the distance of the shadow and the angle from the point where the shadow ends to the top, makes sense to them. Even just getting kids to calculate real life examples like run a fake store and figure out your profit and taxes and how much product to order makes sense to them. 


     


    Other kids just need to go through drill after drill for it to sink in. And yes dumb things like blasting rocket ships or dancing monkeys break up the stress for them. An iPad app can adjust the difficulty of the exercises so that they aren't getting frustrated with wrong answer after wrong answer and they can see that they have passed level one, two, three etc. That can be way better than all the D graded papers in the world for making them want to learn and keeping them from feeling like morons (which makes them less likely to really want to try to do better)

  • Reply 49 of 82

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Squeak View Post


     


    That is strictly forbidden in the T&C's of purchasing the books. Due to the lower costs of the books ($15 vs $75), the book is intended for use by one and only one student.


     


    http://www.apple.com/education/volume-purchase-program/faq.html#ownership


     


     


     



    This the same T & C of a lot of classroom materials, such as printed workbooks that are only used once and disposed of. Tons of printed materials hit the dumpsters at the end of each year. Content on an iPad is actually a lot better deal for the schools.

  • Reply 50 of 82
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,217member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by blursd View Post


     


    While I think buying 26K iPads would help the educational process I have to question, at least tacitly, the wisdom in spending such an exorbitant amount of money when they don't have any to begin with ... 



     


    Reading comp fail. This money was voted by the public in that area specifically and solely to buy tech. If said public wants to change that it is in their power. If they haven't made that effort then they don't seem to see an issue with it. 

  • Reply 51 of 82
    charlitunacharlituna Posts: 7,217member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Squeak View Post


     


    That is strictly forbidden in the T&C's of purchasing the books. Due to the lower costs of the books ($15 vs $75), the book is intended for use by one and only one student.


     


    http://www.apple.com/education/volume-purchase-program/faq.html#ownership



     


    That rule is specific to the Volume Purchasing Program. There's no rule that Schools have to use the VPP for anything much less books. If they choose not to go through the program they can do what they like on that one. It doesn't equal them not having an ID for every iPad so there's no issue of them trying to play cheap etc.


     


    And as I said, they can always require the parents to sign up of an ID on behalf of the kids or use their ID. So the issue isn't an issue at all.  

  • Reply 52 of 82
    squeaksqueak Posts: 26member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by charlituna View Post


     


    That rule is specific to the Volume Purchasing Program. There's no rule that Schools have to use the VPP for anything much less books. If they choose not to go through the program they can do what they like on that one. It doesn't equal them not having an ID for every iPad so there's no issue of them trying to play cheap etc.


     


    And as I said, they can always require the parents to sign up of an ID on behalf of the kids or use their ID. So the issue isn't an issue at all.  



     


    I am not sure I understand exactly what you are trying to get across, but I think my point still stands:


     


    - Saying that the books for the under-13 crowd will come from the iBooks store is misguided. Given that you have to be 13 to have an ID, and the student is suppose to redeem the book with their own ID, Publishers are not going to put books into the store that target that range. Until Apple comes up with a comprehensive distribution system that takes into account the true funding model of K-12 schools (including ownership of the books), the library of titles that publishers produce will be minimum, and targeted to the 13+ crowd.

  • Reply 53 of 82

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by charlituna View Post


     


    Unless your kids are in a school where the whole district believes the same thing and dictates what can and can't be taught and demands that 'false' ideas be stripped from the textbooks being used so the kiddies aren't exposed to that evil. There are a couple of districts in Texas that are that way. 



    You bring up a good point. For several decades a small group of people in Texas has been dictating what information can be included in school books for Texas students. Because it costs a lot to print up a school book, publishers have only produced one version: the version approved for Texas schools. With the movement away from PRINTED texts, it is possible to produce content for various areas. For example, the history of the dark side of Christianity or other religions in shaping and forming policy towards Indians, blacks and other minorities in the U.S. has been totally stripped from American and world history by the Texas committee. Students today have no broad understanding of our actual history.

  • Reply 54 of 82
    jasenj1jasenj1 Posts: 922member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by paxman View Post


    For your old fogeys - education is a living, moving thing which evolves. When I see schools that look like and use methods that were used when I was a kid, I get pissed off. Workplaces and business practices have changed a lot over the years and so must education. If you stand still you are moving backwards.



     


    Let me introduce you to something called Classical Education. It's worked for a long time and still does.

  • Reply 55 of 82
    blursdblursd Posts: 123member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by charlituna View Post


     


    Reading comp fail. This money was voted by the public in that area specifically and solely to buy tech. If said public wants to change that it is in their power. If they haven't made that effort then they don't seem to see an issue with it. 



    How exactly is this a "reading comprehension problem"?  Yes, the money came from a voter approved initiative, but the original assertion I made that the District doesn't have any money and is laying off teachers, staff, closing schools, and cutting back on basic services ... yet buys 26,000 iPads.  Who cares if the money came from a voter initiative ... sure, the kids will have the latest technology, but there will be 60 kids to every teacher ... they still won't learn anything.  


     


    It's called misplaced priorities.  Maybe you should exercise some "reading comprehension" of your own and go back and read what I wrote ... 

  • Reply 56 of 82
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    charlituna wrote: »
    Unless your kids are in a school where the whole district believes the same thing and dictates what can and can't be taught and demands that 'false' ideas be stripped from the textbooks being used so the kiddies aren't exposed to that evil. There are a couple of districts in Texas that are that way. 

    Then I would suggest that you contact the State Attorney General and demand that they comply with Supreme Court rulings. Or file suit yourself. Or put the kids in a private school. Or home school the kids. Or move.

    Ignorance wins when no one takes action.

    You bring up a good point. For several decades a small group of people in Texas has been dictating what information can be included in school books for Texas students. Because it costs a lot to print up a school book, publishers have only produced one version: the version approved for Texas schools. With the movement away from PRINTED texts, it is possible to produce content for various areas. For example, the history of the dark side of Christianity or other religions in shaping and forming policy towards Indians, blacks and other minorities in the U.S. has been totally stripped from American and world history by the Texas committee. Students today have no broad understanding of our actual history.

    That's absolutely the case. Given the relative low cost of producing eBooks, it is likely that a more diverse range of books will become available. While it is impossible today to have different text books for the idiots who deny evolution, causing evolution to be watered down in all books, it would be relatively inexpensive to simply cut evolution out of a text book and sell it as 'science for idiots' to the school districts like those listed above.

    It's too bad that some people insist in crippling their children's education, but it's a free country. I'd settle for them not being able to ruin it for everyone else.
    squeak wrote: »
    <span style="color:rgb(24,24,24);font-family:'lucida grande', verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;line-height:normal;background-color:rgb(226,225,225);">"The district has not indicated exactly what software students will use, though a likely candidate would be Apple`s own iBooks software"</span>
    and

    <span style="color:rgb(24,24,24);font-family:'lucida grande', verdana, helvetica, sans-serif;line-height:normal;background-color:rgb(226,225,225);">"The iPad 2 units will be utilized in 5th- and 8th-grade classrooms, as well as some high school classes."</span>

    don't really go together. Since the books purchased via the iBooks store belong to the student and require an Apple ID, it is only available to students ages 13 and older. That means you are looking at ~8th grade and above.

    What will probably happen is that a lot of the main publishers are coming up with their own proprietary apps to deliver books that are part of a subscription that district pays directly to the publisher. I know that both McGraw-Hill and Pearson have offerings in the store to do exactly that.

    How do you know that iBooks won't offer some volume licensing program for schools that gets around that age limit?
  • Reply 57 of 82
    squeaksqueak Posts: 26member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post



    How do you know that iBooks won't offer some volume licensing program for schools that gets around that age limit?


     


    I don't -- I have no clue what Apple's plan is to fix their K-12 implementation model (and I really do hope for a change as I work in the digital part of one of the big 3 publishers).


     


    But until that point what I do know is that you have to be 13 in the US to have an Apple ID, and you have to use that Apple ID to purchase/redeem a book.

  • Reply 58 of 82
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    blursd wrote: »
    How exactly is this a "reading comprehension problem"?  Yes, the money came from a voter approved initiative, but the original assertion I made that the District doesn't have any money and is laying off teachers, staff, closing schools, and cutting back on basic services ... yet buys 26,000 iPads.  Who cares if the money came from a voter initiative ... sure, the kids will have the latest technology, but there will be 60 kids to every teacher ... they still won't learn anything.  

    It's called misplaced priorities.  Maybe you should exercise some "reading comprehension" of your own and go back and read what I wrote ... 

    Sorry, but I trust the San Diego school board more than some random stranger on AI. If you think they're wrong, run for School Board.
  • Reply 59 of 82
    eberghebergh Posts: 27member


    It will be interesting to see how the service life shakes out for iPads going back and forth to school w/ kids... I hope they bought an extended Applecare warranty!


     


    FWIW, when I was maintaining the computers in my middle school, I spent 90% of my one period as Computer/Network manager time babying the 32 PCs in the computer lab and 10% of my time with the 40 Mac desktop machines in my Industrial Technology lab, the 42 Mac desktops scattered around the school in other classrooms and the 30+/- Mac laptops signed out to teachers. All student machines were locked down tight with Foolproof with no file saving allowed onto the HD. I still had to regularly wipe and reload the PCs in the lab every couple of weeks due to so many problems w/ Windows and the apps. LOTS of hardware issues in there too. Biggest problem with the Macs was the need to occasionally zap PRAM to improve performance and occasionally clean the keyboards. (BTW, this was pre-infrared mice, so we glued the mouse ball doors shut!)


    -e

  • Reply 60 of 82
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post





    The district has not indicated exactly what software students will use, though a likely candidate would be Apple`s own iBooks software, which was enhanced for digital textbooks with the release of iBooks 2 early this year. The iPad 2 units will be utilized in 5th- and 8th-grade classrooms, as well as some high school classes.


    This is the big question. To my knowledge none of the standard textbooks which are currently in use in our school district have been converted to iBooks. I have several of those science and social studies books right here on my desk as we are evaluating a methodology to convert the books. The main problem as I see it is that the current printed books are of really high quality with 100s of pages and extremely rich in graphics. Converting them verbatim to iBooks would create files many gigabytes in size not to mention that the new medium lends itself to the inclusion of video which makes the files even larger. I hope the SD school district did not commit to using iPads with nothing to run on them.

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