junkyard dawg, i guess i should have stated i was talking about differences in fully spec'd iMacs now to the one we saw in the leaked geekbench test. I wont buy a computer that is not fully spec'd, just seems like a waste of money
You're better off buying the base version and upgrading it yourself. Buying a fully spec'd Mac is a huge waste of money!
I would be worried about losing any warranty I may have and messing it up. I am not to savvy when it comes to installing my own hardware(internally, i know how to plug into the ports and what not lol)
junkyard dawg, i guess i should have stated i was talking about differences in fully spec'd iMacs now to the one we saw in the leaked geekbench test. I wont buy a computer that is not fully spec'd, just seems like a waste of money
This is just too silly for words. On any computer you buy, upgrades typically carry the highest markup of anything, yet most of the time they do not future proof the computer as many people would like to think. CPU upgrades are one of the worst these days unless you're taking a leap in core count and can make use of it. The bar graphs and geekbench scores might look pretty, but future computer generations can outpace that difference considerably at times. You should just buy what makes sense relative to your computing needs without leaving anything barely within spec relative to your needs. The idea that buying an upgrade will grant you an extra year out of the machine isn't really true unless it offers something truly significant.
well... thats kinda what a lot of people are waiting on right...? waiting to see if there is something "truly significant" ... I agree about small spec bumps.. but such is the problem with Apple, you don't really know.. but with the last upgrade being a year ago, and a new desktop OS release, and signs pointing to a newer, up to date configuration then why not go with the newer one..
I never said not to go for the newer one. I was saying that worrying about the maximum upgrades (as in cto options) isn't a good strategy. It seems like I just misinterpreted your wording. I wasn't saying it's a bad idea to wait for ivy bridge. I was just saying you should assess what model makes sense for you when that does arrive. I'm thinking they'll arrive with mountain lion.
Who's 'we', and why do you think the market wants a tower?
I don't think it is a tower as much as it is something better than a Mini. Let's face it the Mini could be a lot better simply by employing better than bargain basement mobile processors. If the machine offered up near MBP performance it wouldn't be too bad. Also one shouldn't have to be a surgeon to add a diskdrive to the machine.
…I wanted a laptop CPU/GPU I would by a laptop.
Guess you've not seen the iMac for over four years, then. Desktop processors for ages.
People do seem to mis that! However better GPUs would be welcomed.
Couldn't Apple do a headless macmidi or something that was between the min and the pro.
Of course they 'could'. But they won't because they couldn't care less about that market. I'm dumbfounded that people haven't gotten that yet.
Considering the state of desktop sales I'm surprised that Apple has gotten it yet. The whole lineup has been neglected and is kinda ho hum in its ability to spur sales. Forcing customer to choose between an iMac and nothing just isn't good business sense. Often customers choose laptops simply because it is the best option available from Apple.
Dave, you'll have to learn that Apple's desktop sales are not flat.
They have been flat in the USA which is the only thing that counts. .
For the last 4 quarters (I have other things to do), desktop sales have increased YoY, 15%, 3%, 21% and 19%. For 2 of those quarters the increase YoY was higher for desktops than notebooks.
Most of those sales are into new markets where it is easy to boost sales every quarter.
While the absolute numbers are not huge (avg 1.2M/qtr), desktop sales are anything but flat: +14% this year (5,1M last 4 quarters) vs the year before (4.5M), and the ASP is still strong ($1325 vs $1371), and slightly higher than notebooks. Apple's desktop sales are in good shape given the current market.
Well Apple could keep improving those numbers by simply expanding sales to China for year to come. It means nothing though when one looks at what is happening in the USA. Sales have basically flattened right out with both the Mini and the Mac Pro seeing significant declines. The numbers aren't debatable here and reflect what Apple says is happening.
Look it is always easy to post nice numbers if you are effectively selling in new markets. The problem is with what is happening in mature markets, it is here that Apples desktop line is having significant problems. Weak sales in the USA are a strong indicator of problems with the product line. It isn't a question of the economy either, people are feed up with the ho hum nature and Apples general lack of interest.
The Mini will never have the performance you need. It isn't designed to be a computing solution for anyone, it's basically an OS X demo unit designed to be thrown out and replaced with an iMac or Mac Pro at the earliest convenience.
Wow talk about a load of crap! You do realize that people buy Minis and actually use them?
Seriously, laptop components in a desktop computer? Faster desktop components would make a cheaper, slightly larger computer that 90% of users would find more desireable, but then people would just buy Minis to use with their current LCD displays and forget about the iMac.
Actually faster laptop chips would go a long way to improving the Mini. At least in one model, I don't discount the need for an entry level machine, just that people need a significantly faster model too.
If that happened, Apple HQ would go to defcon 5 and initiate a major corporate restructuring,
I hear this arguement all the time and again it is bull crap. Many people won't even consider an iMac and this are forced to choose between a Mini and a laptop. Apple isn't loosing iMac sales to any other product because those sales are going to people that would never buy the current iMacs.
the first step of which would be to ax the entire Mac desktop lineup. Apple are more likely to start selling rubber iDogsh!t than to offer a decent desktop Mac for under $2000.
Even an old dog can learn something new given patient teaching. In this regard I think Apple could learn to produce something new, they just need to be taught what customers want.
They have been flat in the USA which is the only thing that counts. .
Most of those sales are into new markets where it is easy to boost sales every quarter.
Well Apple could keep improving those numbers by simply expanding sales to China for year to come. It means nothing though when one looks at what is happening in the USA. Sales have basically flattened right out with both the Mini and the Mac Pro seeing significant declines. The numbers aren't debatable here and reflect what Apple says is happening.
Look it is always easy to post nice numbers if you are effectively selling in new markets. The problem is with what is happening in mature markets, it is here that Apples desktop line is having significant problems. Weak sales in the USA are a strong indicator of problems with the product line. It isn't a question of the economy either, people are feed up with the ho hum nature and Apples general lack of interest.
LOL, the USA are a marginal market now. Just like Luxembourg or Guinea-Bissau.
What happens in the USA alone doesn't even matter. Since when are we talking about Apple as regional outlet? In any case, Apple doesn't disclose the mix in each region, let alone in each country, so: FU. You don't have any numbers so, yes, there's nothing to debate here. You're just making assumptions all the way about the US market. Nowhere have I heard or read that Apple's desktop sales have been flat in the US and that it was because of a significant decline of MM and MP sales. Maybe it's the case in your neighborhood, or local Best Buy shop, but that means nothing.
Sorry if that hurts your feelings, but you have become irrelevant.
If you do even a modicum of research you can find more information about what is going on with Apple sales in the USA. It is a silly mistake to think I'm pulling this information out of my butt.
As to how much that matters we could debate that for years. However I believe it is a trend where consummers tend to reject desktops from Apple in favor of more advanced technology in the laptops.
LOL, the USA are a marginal market now. Just like Luxembourg or Guinea-Bissau.
What happens in the USA alone doesn't even matter. Since when are we talking about Apple as regional outlet? In any case, Apple doesn't disclose the mix in each region, let alone in each country, so: FU. You don't have any numbers so, yes, there's nothing to debate here. You're just making assumptions all the way about the US market. Nowhere have I heard or read that Apple's desktop sales have been flat in the US and that it was because of a significant decline of MM and MP sales. Maybe it's the case in your neighborhood, or local Best Buy shop, but that means nothing.
Sorry if that hurts your feelings, but you have become irrelevant.
If you do even a modicum of research you can find more information about what is going on with Apple sales in the USA. It is a silly mistake to think I'm pulling this information out of my butt.
As to how much that matters we could debate that for years. However I believe it is a trend where consummers tend to reject desktops from Apple in favor of more advanced technology in the laptops.
Oh yes, you're pulling this out of your butt.
I'm very familiar with tuaw's article (well,... blog), and nowhere in there, they are saying that Apple's desktop sales have been flat in the US and that it was because of a significant decline of MM and MP sales. And they have very little insider information in there, it's a regular analysis as many others have done + some speculation, because Apple doesn't disclose more detailled info.
In any case, the only little bit of info that could be twisted in your favor is about North America, and North America is not the US neither (no matter what you yankees think). And, of course, the reason given is an economical one, unlike you stated in your previous post. Nonetheless, you cannot draw conclusions from a single quarter numbers only, because that doesn't take much into account (seasonality, saturation, launch of new products, etc...). A single quarter results doesn't make a trend. What you believe is unfortunatly nothing more than speculation, not an once of fact in there.
Nope pulling it off the web. The same web that you can find similar posting about Apples desktop sales.
I'm very familiar with tuaw's article (well,... blog), and nowhere in there, they are saying that Apple's desktop sales have been flat in the US and that it was because of a significant decline of MM and MP sales. And they have very little insider information in there, it's a regular analysis as many others have done + some speculation, because Apple doesn't disclose more detailled info.
Then read Apples reports.
In any case, the only little bit of info that could be twisted in your favor is about North America, and North America is not the US neither (no matter what you yankees think). And, of course, the reason given is an economical one, unlike you stated in your previous post. Nonetheless, you cannot draw conclusions from a single quarter numbers only, because that doesn't take much into account (seasonality, saturation, launch of new products, etc...). A single quarter results doesn't make a trend. What you believe is unfortunatly nothing more than speculation, not an once of fact in there.
Is it really speculation to say Apple has declining desktop sales due to neglect? The Mac Pro is a glaring example here, the architecture of this machine is old and now adays slow. If you don't think that forces users to look elsewhere then I'm not sure this conversation is worthwhile.
Is it really speculation to say Apple has declining desktop sales due to neglect? The Mac Pro is a glaring example here, the architecture of this machine is old and now adays slow.
Now. You can't say that about the product before the launch of the Sandy Bridge Xeons.
Now. You can't say that about the product before the launch of the Sandy Bridge Xeons.
I did say "now adays". I dont want to discount Intels part in this sad story, but Apple blew it big time by skipping Sandy Bridge E and phoning in this micro update. I really don't care if they have a new machine due to launch next year, 8-10 months is a long time to watch technology pass you by.
By the way, they probably did phone in this update to the Mac Pro. It amounted to nothing more than canceling existing orders and substituting the new processors from Intel. The total lack of effort here seems to be what is pissing people off in regards to Apples desktop line up. In this regard I suspect an uproar if the iMac doesn't update around the time of Mountain Lions release.
The fact of the matter is that people will see this as a screw up on Apples part no matter what sort of update the iMac gets, if it lags the Ivy Bridge release by more than 3-4 months.
[quote name="wizard69" url="/t/150948/potential-imac-release-date#post_2137845"]I don't want to discount Intels part in this sad story, but Apple blew it big time by skipping Sandy Bridge E and phoning in this micro update.[/QUOTE]
I'll wait to agree with you until after I see what they're doing with it next.
[QUOTE]By the way, they probably did phone in this update to the Mac Pro.[/QUOTE]
I will agree with that right now, however.
[QUOTE]In this regard I suspect an uproar if the iMac doesn't update around the time of Mountain Lions release.[/QUOTE]
I don't want to discount Intels part in this sad story, but Apple blew it big time by skipping Sandy Bridge E and phoning in this micro update.
I'll wait to agree with you until after I see what they're doing with it next.
There are two ways to look at this, one as a customer and one as the management team at Apple.
From the perspective of a customer, especially one that needs to purchase a high performance computer this year, the "update" to the Mac Pro this year is a terrible thing to have to deal with.
By the way, they probably did phone in this update to the Mac Pro.
I will agree with that right now, however.
It is pretty disgusting when you think about it. They didn't even take the time to plant a new video card in the machine. Considering that video cards are very important to certain classes of Mac Pro users, the update look damn foolish.
In this regard I suspect an uproar if the iMac doesn't update around the time of Mountain Lions release.
Maybe. I tend to agree, but perhaps not.
Most people that follow what I say here realize I have no love for the current iMac. That could change in the future if Apple addressed a few issues with it. However the iMac is well loved by a huge number of users, many are waiting on an update. They have good reason to wait too, as Ivy Bridge brings much to the machine. So I wouldn't be surprised if the gang starts to get restless.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by eucsstamticc
junkyard dawg, i guess i should have stated i was talking about differences in fully spec'd iMacs now to the one we saw in the leaked geekbench test. I wont buy a computer that is not fully spec'd, just seems like a waste of money
You're better off buying the base version and upgrading it yourself. Buying a fully spec'd Mac is a huge waste of money!
I would be worried about losing any warranty I may have and messing it up. I am not to savvy when it comes to installing my own hardware(internally, i know how to plug into the ports and what not lol)
I would not want to mess up my AppleCare
Quote:
Originally Posted by eucsstamticc
junkyard dawg, i guess i should have stated i was talking about differences in fully spec'd iMacs now to the one we saw in the leaked geekbench test. I wont buy a computer that is not fully spec'd, just seems like a waste of money
This is just too silly for words. On any computer you buy, upgrades typically carry the highest markup of anything, yet most of the time they do not future proof the computer as many people would like to think. CPU upgrades are one of the worst these days unless you're taking a leap in core count and can make use of it. The bar graphs and geekbench scores might look pretty, but future computer generations can outpace that difference considerably at times. You should just buy what makes sense relative to your computing needs without leaving anything barely within spec relative to your needs. The idea that buying an upgrade will grant you an extra year out of the machine isn't really true unless it offers something truly significant.
well... thats kinda what a lot of people are waiting on right...? waiting to see if there is something "truly significant" ... I agree about small spec bumps.. but such is the problem with Apple, you don't really know.. but with the last upgrade being a year ago, and a new desktop OS release, and signs pointing to a newer, up to date configuration then why not go with the newer one..
Quote:
Originally Posted by eucsstamticc
then why not go with the newer one..
I never said not to go for the newer one. I was saying that worrying about the maximum upgrades (as in cto options) isn't a good strategy. It seems like I just misinterpreted your wording. I wasn't saying it's a bad idea to wait for ivy bridge. I was just saying you should assess what model makes sense for you when that does arrive. I'm thinking they'll arrive with mountain lion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht
I remember when this board would be in a frenzy with even the tiniest Mac speed bump...
Now it's "yawn...iMac? Whatever".
Of course, nowadays people are very busy with the Apple-made iDevices in their hands. No time/interest for real computers anymore.
Considering the state of desktop sales I'm surprised that Apple has gotten it yet. The whole lineup has been neglected and is kinda ho hum in its ability to spur sales. Forcing customer to choose between an iMac and nothing just isn't good business sense. Often customers choose laptops simply because it is the best option available from Apple.
Well Apple could keep improving those numbers by simply expanding sales to China for year to come. It means nothing though when one looks at what is happening in the USA. Sales have basically flattened right out with both the Mini and the Mac Pro seeing significant declines. The numbers aren't debatable here and reflect what Apple says is happening.
Look it is always easy to post nice numbers if you are effectively selling in new markets. The problem is with what is happening in mature markets, it is here that Apples desktop line is having significant problems. Weak sales in the USA are a strong indicator of problems with the product line. It isn't a question of the economy either, people are feed up with the ho hum nature and Apples general lack of interest.
Even an old dog can learn something new given patient teaching. In this regard I think Apple could learn to produce something new, they just need to be taught what customers want.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
They have been flat in the USA which is the only thing that counts. .
Most of those sales are into new markets where it is easy to boost sales every quarter.
Well Apple could keep improving those numbers by simply expanding sales to China for year to come. It means nothing though when one looks at what is happening in the USA. Sales have basically flattened right out with both the Mini and the Mac Pro seeing significant declines. The numbers aren't debatable here and reflect what Apple says is happening.
Look it is always easy to post nice numbers if you are effectively selling in new markets. The problem is with what is happening in mature markets, it is here that Apples desktop line is having significant problems. Weak sales in the USA are a strong indicator of problems with the product line. It isn't a question of the economy either, people are feed up with the ho hum nature and Apples general lack of interest.
LOL, the USA are a marginal market now. Just like Luxembourg or Guinea-Bissau.
What happens in the USA alone doesn't even matter. Since when are we talking about Apple as regional outlet? In any case, Apple doesn't disclose the mix in each region, let alone in each country, so: FU. You don't have any numbers so, yes, there's nothing to debate here. You're just making assumptions all the way about the US market. Nowhere have I heard or read that Apple's desktop sales have been flat in the US and that it was because of a significant decline of MM and MP sales. Maybe it's the case in your neighborhood, or local Best Buy shop, but that means nothing.
Sorry if that hurts your feelings, but you have become irrelevant.
http://www.tuaw.com/2012/01/25/lesser-known-facts-from-apples-earnings-statement/
If you do even a modicum of research you can find more information about what is going on with Apple sales in the USA. It is a silly mistake to think I'm pulling this information out of my butt.
As to how much that matters we could debate that for years. However I believe it is a trend where consummers tend to reject desktops from Apple in favor of more advanced technology in the laptops.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
Start by reading this:
http://www.tuaw.com/2012/01/25/lesser-known-facts-from-apples-earnings-statement/
If you do even a modicum of research you can find more information about what is going on with Apple sales in the USA. It is a silly mistake to think I'm pulling this information out of my butt.
As to how much that matters we could debate that for years. However I believe it is a trend where consummers tend to reject desktops from Apple in favor of more advanced technology in the laptops.
Oh yes, you're pulling this out of your butt.
I'm very familiar with tuaw's article (well,... blog), and nowhere in there, they are saying that Apple's desktop sales have been flat in the US and that it was because of a significant decline of MM and MP sales. And they have very little insider information in there, it's a regular analysis as many others have done + some speculation, because Apple doesn't disclose more detailled info.
In any case, the only little bit of info that could be twisted in your favor is about North America, and North America is not the US neither (no matter what you yankees think). And, of course, the reason given is an economical one, unlike you stated in your previous post. Nonetheless, you cannot draw conclusions from a single quarter numbers only, because that doesn't take much into account (seasonality, saturation, launch of new products, etc...). A single quarter results doesn't make a trend. What you believe is unfortunatly nothing more than speculation, not an once of fact in there.
Is it really speculation to say Apple has declining desktop sales due to neglect? The Mac Pro is a glaring example here, the architecture of this machine is old and now adays slow. If you don't think that forces users to look elsewhere then I'm not sure this conversation is worthwhile.
Now. You can't say that about the product before the launch of the Sandy Bridge Xeons.
I did say "now adays". I dont want to discount Intels part in this sad story, but Apple blew it big time by skipping Sandy Bridge E and phoning in this micro update. I really don't care if they have a new machine due to launch next year, 8-10 months is a long time to watch technology pass you by.
By the way, they probably did phone in this update to the Mac Pro. It amounted to nothing more than canceling existing orders and substituting the new processors from Intel. The total lack of effort here seems to be what is pissing people off in regards to Apples desktop line up. In this regard I suspect an uproar if the iMac doesn't update around the time of Mountain Lions release.
The fact of the matter is that people will see this as a screw up on Apples part no matter what sort of update the iMac gets, if it lags the Ivy Bridge release by more than 3-4 months.
I'll wait to agree with you until after I see what they're doing with it next.
[QUOTE]By the way, they probably did phone in this update to the Mac Pro.[/QUOTE]
I will agree with that right now, however.
[QUOTE]In this regard I suspect an uproar if the iMac doesn't update around the time of Mountain Lions release.[/QUOTE]
Maybe. I tend to agree, but perhaps not.
From the perspective of a customer, especially one that needs to purchase a high performance computer this year, the "update" to the Mac Pro this year is a terrible thing to have to deal with. It is pretty disgusting when you think about it. They didn't even take the time to plant a new video card in the machine. Considering that video cards are very important to certain classes of Mac Pro users, the update look damn foolish. Most people that follow what I say here realize I have no love for the current iMac. That could change in the future if Apple addressed a few issues with it. However the iMac is well loved by a huge number of users, many are waiting on an update. They have good reason to wait too, as Ivy Bridge brings much to the machine. So I wouldn't be surprised if the gang starts to get restless.
Seriously you guys need to check this out...
One of my friends linked me this video that someone working inside apple got a video of the new imac.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-nF1X9YHrc
I didn't believe it when he sent me it, but it is not much, but it sure looks awesome!