'Project Butter' to improve responsiveness in Android 4.1 Jelly Bean

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 109
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 2,351member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sleepy3 View Post


    Hmmm, 


     


    I wonder what features from Jelly Bean we will see Apple "Borrow" in iOS7. Just like Apple does with every android release. 


     


    Multi-tasking, voice commands, pull down notification, sharing, attatching photos in e-mail without going to gallery, turn by turn navigation, etc. 





    Google copied turn by turn navigation from GPS device makers. 

  • Reply 62 of 109
    bigmac2bigmac2 Posts: 639member


    There is no easy fix for using Java. Java has always suck in UI parts, Android and Dalvik VM makes no difference. Microsoft has done the same mistake with WP7 by using their own Silverlight VM and they recently reboot the whole platform to follow Apple way of running native C code driving C lib, which is the way to get the best performance out of a CPU. Android blob of open source goo with "special" Google seasoning is really ugly from a technological standpoint.

  • Reply 63 of 109
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    igxqrrl wrote: »
    Real Apple fans should celebrate the competition, instead of mocking it.

    I will. Once it exists.
  • Reply 64 of 109

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post


     


    Not "years." More like three months.  



    What? The Android notification system has been around since the G1. Apple only just recently adopted it, hence "years."

  • Reply 65 of 109
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Good for Google and Android users. I figured it was just a matter of time before they would actually get the UI to function nearly as well as the 2007 iPhone. Of course, Apple did that with a 412MHz ARM11 ARMv6 CPU and 128MB RAM and other much, much slower HW but 5 years behind Apple isn't so bad for Google's first OS. MS is usually close to a decade behind Apple in matching technological prowess.


    bighype wrote: »
    Hey AppleInsider, I come here for news about APPLE and iOS, NOT about Google and Android.

    I guess it's time to find a new news source free of all the Android crap.

    Don't click on a link that is clearly only about Android. I don't linger the grocery store aisle that sells douche but that doesn't mean I complain to the manager that it's not a grocery item I'm concerned with. That would make me, well, a douche.



    [VIDEO]
  • Reply 66 of 109
    msimpsonmsimpson Posts: 452member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    Oh relax..... occasionally, it's fine, I think.


     


    I have a good belly laugh reading many of the comments (and the pathetic -- and I am guessing paid -- fandroid attempts at rebuttals and comebacks).image



     


    I wonder if there are Apple fan bois who visit Android news & rumor sites to troll?     Are there any Android news & rumor sites?


     


    Triple buffer with v-sync sounds like some overhead that only certain devices will be able to support.  Also sounds like the are grasping for straws because they are inherently flawed because they are running bytecode in a VM and the graphics are not that easy to handoff to the GPU units. 

  • Reply 67 of 109
    chris_cachris_ca Posts: 2,543member
    solipsismx wrote: »
    I don't linger the grocery store that sells douche but that doesn't mean I complain to the manager that it's not a grocery item I'm concerned with. That would make me, well, a douche.
    Douché! (as in touché) 15
  • Reply 68 of 109
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    msimpson wrote: »
    I wonder if there are Apple fan bois who visit Android news & rumor sites to troll?     Are there any Android news & rumor sites?

    I've seen no pro-Apple trolling on any of the Android forums I've ever seen, which sickens me.

    Not that there isn't any, no; I don't wish our blight on them at all. I mean the other reason it would sicken me.
  • Reply 69 of 109
    inkswampinkswamp Posts: 337member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post


    I think the issue is that Google and all the Android supporters spent the first three revisions of the OS and the last five years or so claiming that these problems didn't exist, and now (by copying an Apple technique BTW), they attempt to fix them with a special "patch" that runs in the background constantly.  It certainly deserves a huge eye roll at the least.  


     


    The OS should have been designed properly from the beginning, but then it wasn't really designed for the devices it actually runs on anyway was it?  



     


    And regardless, this isn't going to affect the 90% of users who are still on 2.x (not making that stat up, BTW. It's straight from Google's own usage site.) So once the admission is made that it was a problem, it becomes an acknowledged problem for 90% of current Android users.


     


    My wife had an Android phone and the UI lag was shit. My iPhone 3G (which I got a few months before she got her phone) outperformed hers consistently for the whole time we owned them. (We both have 4S now and she's particularly happy with it.) I feel genuinely sorry for people who got caught up in the Android hype and are stuck with 2.x phones.

  • Reply 70 of 109

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by zeejay21 View Post


     


    Uh... what? I wasn't really into this Android vs. iOS stuff but when you said Google's gonna lead the computer market - I call BS. Hell, Google was suppose to make the web better but lately they just lost focus. Who cares about making docs in the web? If they can't take good care of their own vision, how the hell would they take care of anything especially computer OS?


     


    At least Apple attempts to put OSes (their main vision) in nearly everything they touch - there was even rumors when Steve Jobs was alive, he was interested putting Apple OS in cars.





    Google created the Chrome OS. You must have forgotten about that one. They could do the exact same thing with the Chrome OS as they are doing with their Android OS. They could use Motorola, and the knowledge those people have about creating products, and expand into computers. They are starting with this tablet. If they get it right and succeed they can eventually expand into computers if they choose using the Chrome OS.


     


    Think about it. Apple doesn't design the chips in their computers nor do they manufacture chips. They design tweaks to the ARM processors and someone else does the manufacturing. Google could do the same thing Apple is doing for its computer line and be considered a manufacturer just as much as Apple.


     


    Apple makes two operating systems. Google makes two operating systems.


    Apple has other people make their iPads. Google has other people make their Nexus 7.


     


    If Google could decide to stick with something for a long term and make a product work, even with a couple of so so efforts, they could improve enough and potentially lead in any market. They have the resources. They aren't stuck to some outdated mantra the way Microsoft is stuck.


     


    The consumer computer market is morphing away from laptops and desktops to smart phones and tablets. Google might not have a desire to develop a full blown desktop machine to compete with a Mac Pro. Creating an awesome tablet seems to be the logical way to go. The Nexus 7 is a start.


     


    I want to buy a 7" device of some sort this year. It won't be for computing. It will be for entertainment via video, internet, and books. Anything that can do those things well with a good interface and good navigation will get my money. I'm willing to wait until the end of September to make my purchase. I'll wait just because by then Apple will have updated their iPod line. Maybe Apple will debut a larger iPod device that fills my requirements. If Apple doesn't do it then I'll consider the Android side of the equation. It is because Apple makes good things that I'm willing to wait instead of getting something now.

  • Reply 71 of 109


    How's that notification menu treating you? Right, then stfu.

  • Reply 72 of 109
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,388member
    How's that notification menu treating you? Right, then stfu.

    So is this a slam on Apple or Google?
  • Reply 73 of 109
    macbook promacbook pro Posts: 1,605member
    I've seen no pro-Apple trolling on any of the Android forums I've ever seen, which sickens me.
    Not that there isn't any, no; I don't wish our blight on them at all. I mean the other reason it would sicken me.

    ???
    So is this a slam on Apple or Google?

    Surely Google but I am not sure why.
  • Reply 74 of 109
    d-ranged-range Posts: 396member
    msimpson wrote: »
    Triple buffer with v-sync sounds like some overhead that only certain devices will be able to support.  Also sounds like the are grasping for straws because they are inherently flawed because they are running bytecode in a VM and the graphics are not that easy to handoff to the GPU units. 

    Interestingly, triple buffering actually increases input lag, by one frame (or about 16 ms) to be precise. V-sync doesn't really add any overhead in terms of processing, but it doesn't help a lot to increase rendering performance either. Only if you have a device that is rendering at over 60 fps right now, but with major spikes and dips in the framerate, syncing at 60 fps may improve perceived smoothness of animations. If you have a device that renders very close to 60 fps max, adding vsync will again worsen input lag and perceived UI smoothness, because vsync will effectively peg the rendering speed to 60 fps, 30 fps or 15 fps, ie: you will see major choppiness if you have a device that would be rendering just below 60 fps with spikes above it, if it were rendering without vsync.

    All of this is about the most basic knowledge of rendering and has been known in the game industry for over 30 years, so it's almost a joke that Google is trying to spin this as some kind of major innovation that will all of a sudden fix all the UI lagginess you see on every Android device, no matter how fast the hardware.

    The Android shills hanging around here are really getting a little predictable by the way, just repeating anecdotes how they really do not experience any input lag even though Google apparently does, and pointing to completely unrelated (supposed) problems the iPhone would have, even going back as far as the 3GS which is now over 3 years old, it's not really cutting it anymore guys. Not really good advertising for Android if even the shills can't come up with anything better anymore.
  • Reply 75 of 109
    evilutionevilution Posts: 1,399member
    Google clearly don't realise that you can't polish a turd, even with butter.
    That's the difference between Apple and Google. Apple tried to get it right first time and improved things by rewriting. Google rushed Android out to compete, sticks with the original lag filled design and just keeps piling more stuff on top to try and hide what's below.
  • Reply 76 of 109

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post





    I will. Once it exists.


    yea okay...


     


    to deny that Android is the ONLY healthy competitor to iOS is the very definition of blind fanboism.


     


    I get that you fellate Apple's for fun, that's understandable...but don't tear our your eyes and call reality blind.

  • Reply 77 of 109
    jnjnjnjnjnjn Posts: 588member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by redbarchetta View Post


     


    Weird, because my iPhone 3G occassionally lagged with the original OS, but then became practically unusable (and I mean that without an ounce of hyperbole) with iOS 4.



     


    You must be lying then.


     


    J.

  • Reply 78 of 109
    jnjnjnjnjnjn Posts: 588member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by d-range View Post





    Interestingly, triple buffering actually increases input lag, by one frame (or about 16 ms) to be precise. V-sync doesn't really add any overhead in terms of processing, but it doesn't help a lot to increase rendering performance either. Only if you have a device that is rendering at over 60 fps right now, but with major spikes and dips in the framerate, syncing at 60 fps may improve perceived smoothness of animations. If you have a device that renders very close to 60 fps max, adding vsync will again worsen input lag and perceived UI smoothness, because vsync will effectively peg the rendering speed to 60 fps, 30 fps or 15 fps, ie: you will see major choppiness if you have a device that would be rendering just below 60 fps with spikes above it, if it were rendering without vsync.

    All of this is about the most basic knowledge of rendering and has been known in the game industry for over 30 years, so it's almost a joke that Google is trying to spin this as some kind of major innovation that will all of a sudden fix all the UI lagginess you see on every Android device, no matter how fast the hardware.

    The Android shills hanging around here are really getting a little predictable by the way, just repeating anecdotes how they really do not experience any input lag even though Google apparently does, and pointing to completely unrelated (supposed) problems the iPhone would have, even going back as far as the 3GS which is now over 3 years old, it's not really cutting it anymore guys. Not really good advertising for Android if even the shills can't come up with anything better anymore.


     


    Actually, no. Triple buffering has to do with decoupling the CPU and GPU and reduces the time the CPU has to wait because it has an extra (decoupled) buffer to write in.


    Syncing processes to the display refresh rate is the right thing to do, but requires of course that the rendering is finished before the deadline expires.


    This is an application (design) issue and apparently all Goole is saying is that you now have the tools (API) to do so.


    Probably comparable to CADisplayLink available on IOS 3.0 and later.


     


    J.

  • Reply 79 of 109
    d-ranged-range Posts: 396member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jnjnjn View Post


     


    Actually, no. Triple buffering has to do with decoupling the CPU and GPU and reduces the time the CPU has to wait because it has an extra (decoupled) buffer to write in.


    Syncing processes to the display refresh rate is the right thing to do, but requires of course that the rendering is finished before the deadline expires.


    This is an application (design) issue and apparently all Goole is saying is that you now have the tools (API) to do so.


    Probably comparable to CADisplayLink available on IOS 3.0 and later.


     


    J.



     


    Not really, what you are describing is what double-buffering is for. Triple-buffering is adding yet another off-screen backbuffer, to be able to smooth out dips and spikes in rendering time. This way you don't have to drop frames when one or two frames take longer than 1/60th of a second to render. Since you are basically pipelining frames, you are also introducing latency (=lag), because when the content to render changes (e.g. by user interaction), there are still two frames queued that have to be flipped to the on-screen framebuffer before the frame with the new content can be displayed. 


     


    Single-buffering (directly rendering to the framebuffer) is almost never used because it introduces drawing artefacts (you can see the screen getting 'painted'). Quadruple-buffering (or more) is almost never used because of the latency it indroduces, and because of the extra RAM it takes. Double and triple buffering are more or less standard fare in rendering, and have always been.


     


    I didn't get from the article whether Jellybean is introducing V-synced rendering (ie: limiting screen refresh rate to 60, 30 or 15 fps), or just adding an API that allows applications to schedule rendering operations using the display refresh rate (such as CADisplayLink does). Anyway, again, both things are standard fare on almost everything that renders any kind of animation.

  • Reply 80 of 109
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,926member


    Since ICS is installed on few new Android phones shipping at this point, and 2.3.x seems to have become Androids "XP", it's questionable how much any of this matters. It's possible that ICS will be ignored and handset makers will simply skip to JB, or maybe adoption will always simply lag release by a year or two, that they are working on their mods to ICS now, and that phones shipping with JB are still a couple of years down the pipe.

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