Samsung Galaxy Note II rumored to get even bigger with 5.5" display

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  • Reply 141 of 239
    bmason1270bmason1270 Posts: 258member
    Here are the words I put into your mouth:
    I'm sure that Apple realizes that making a larger screen for the iPhone will snag a few extra buyers but going over 4" would might end up losing existing customers. Anyone that likes the old form factor would still be able to buy the 4S.

    As someone mentioned, though, the Note is not used as a phone in the traditional sense (ie. bt headset) and I can understand how someone would prefer the larger screen as it would better bridge the gap between a tablet and a phone... imho.

    That doesn't read to me like it is a true one size fits all category. Would over 4" grab more or less customers?

    Don't know about you but I don't see lots of BT headsets out there anymore. I don't think people want to go back to that because of the phone size. Especially if it isn't used as much as a phone but is such a pain to dig it out of your pocket to take a call. Who wants to wear a extra piece of equipment other than when driving?

    That sounds like a significant compromise to me. More pairing, another charger, another $90.

    I said "I don't care what you think about me." I never said I was offended by a name.

    This is just a little debate over a luxury device.
  • Reply 142 of 239
    island hermitisland hermit Posts: 6,217member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bmason1270 View Post



    Here are the words I put into your mouth:

    That doesn't read to me like it is a true one size fits all category. Would over 4" grab more or less customers?

    Don't know about you but I don't see lots of BT headsets out there anymore. I don't think people want to go back to that because of the phone size. Especially if it isn't used as much as a phone but is such a pain to dig it out of your pocket to take a call. Who wants to wear a extra piece of equipment other than when driving?

    That sounds like a significant compromise to me. More pairing, another charger, another $90.


     


    imho, a 4" phone would be better for the iPhone than a 4.5" screen size. People are used to the iPhone being of a certain size and being able to use it comfortably with one hand. At the same time the competitors are showing that there is a huge market for a larger screen size. Apple must find a compromise to suit both camps while leaning, of course, to existing customers more than new customers. 4" seems to be perfect imo.


     


    My second paragraph was not meant to compare the note to a phone. It was meant to compare the Note to a portable tablet. I can definitely see it selling well to the business crowd... it definitely fits well inside a suit coat pocket and can serve as a note taker, tablet, phone (with or without BT headset). According to Samsung it sells well (over 5 million), well enough to warrant bringing out a larger version.

  • Reply 143 of 239
    bmason1270bmason1270 Posts: 258member
    imho, a 4" phone would be better for the iPhone than a 4.5" screen size. People are used to the iPhone being of a certain size and being able to use it comfortably with one hand. At the same time the competitors are showing that there is a huge market for a larger screen size. Apple must find a compromise to suit both camps while leaning, of course, to existing customers more than new customers.

    My second paragraph was not meant to compare the note to a phone. It was meant to compare the Note to a portable tablet. I can definitely see it selling well to the business crowd... it definitely fits well inside a suit coat pocket and can serve as a note taker, tablet, phone (with or without BT headset). According to Samsung it sells well (over 5 million), well enough to warrant bringing out a larger version.

    And that is what is called a "niche market". Success can be found in niche categories, but that is not a segment that Apple caters to.

    I'm sure that Apple realizes that making a larger screen for the iPhone will snag a few extra buyers but going over 4" would might end up losing existing customers. Anyone that likes the old form factor would still be able to buy the 4S.

    As someone mentioned, though, the Note is not used as a phone in the traditional sense (ie. bt headset) and I can understand how someone would prefer the larger screen as it would better bridge the gap between a tablet and a phone... imho.
  • Reply 144 of 239
    island hermitisland hermit Posts: 6,217member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bmason1270 View Post





    And that is what is called a "niche market". Success can be found in niche categories, but that is not a segment that Apple caters to.


     


    What the hell.. there you go increasing the field and scattering your thoughts all over the place. you are all over the map. Stick to one argument... it's difficult trying to follow you.


     


    Let me help you:


     


    1. 4" iPhone good compromise between existing and new customers


     


    2. Samsung Note good compromise between tablet and phone. Some have said it appears to be defining a new category similar to the way the iPad defined a new category.


     


    By the way...what the hell are you talking about... Apple has been a niche company since the Mac was first released.


     


    1. The Mac holding less than 5% of the market for years and years and years. 2. The CEO talking about capturing 1% of the smartphone market

  • Reply 145 of 239
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    By the way...what the hell are you talking about... Apple has been a niche company since the Mac was first released.

    You miss the understanding there. Apple makes computers for the majority. The computers they make serve the needs of the majority, not niches. That they're only purchased by a minority is not the point being made.
    2. The CEO talking about capturing 1% of the smartphone market

    It's pretty clear he never actually believed that. He was lowballing to kick up the stock prices.

    Now, back to the first part. As of late, some of Apple's computers have been falling further into niches. Let's look at the 17" MacBook Pro. If Apple is a "niche company", they would have kept it around.

    They didn't. They're not. The majority of purchases are the other models, so the other models remain.

    The Mac Pro, too, has fallen into a niche, but that's to be expected, as it was doomed to this fate since the name change and Intel transition. Now Tim Cook claims there'll be a new Mac Pro next year. One can only assume it's going to be a more mainstream computer. But what does that imply?

    The Mac Mini already serves the needs of the low end, and the iMac serves the needs of the middle. The Mac Pro therefore needs to be changed to serve the ENTIRETY of the high-end, not just "workstation" needs. I even want the new Mac Pro to take sales away from the 27" iMac, because pros are jumping back up to it.
  • Reply 146 of 239
    bmason1270bmason1270 Posts: 258member
    What the hell.. there you go increasing the field and scattering your thoughts all over the place. you are all over the map. Stick to one argument... it's difficult trying to follow you.

    Let me help you:

    1. 4" iPhone good compromise between existing and new customers

    2. Samsung Note good compromise between tablet and phone. Some have said it appears to be defining a new category similar to the way the iPad defined a new category.

    By the way...what the hell are you talking about... Apple has been a niche company since the Mac was first released.

    1. The Mac holding less than 5% of the market for years and years and years. 2. The CEO talking about capturing 1% of the smartphone market

    I'm sure that Apple realizes that making a larger screen for the iPhone will snag a few extra buyers but going over 4" would might end up losing existing customers. Anyone that likes the old form factor would still be able to buy the 4S.

    As someone mentioned, though, the Note is not used as a phone in the traditional sense (ie. bt headset) and I can understand how someone would prefer the larger screen as it would better bridge the gap between a tablet and a phone... imho.

    My argument is this:
    Although a seven inch iPad will sell initially, the justification of ground breaking portability of the device is an exaggeration. It, in many ways will be no more portable than a regular iPad.

    Again Seven inch iPad:
    Can you carry it in your pocket?
    Would you be more likely to just carry it around? Assuming you have a smart phone.
    Will you end up putting it in a bag of some sort?

    Ten inch iPad:
    Can you carry it in your pocket?
    Would you be more likely to just carry it around? Assuming you have a smart phone.
    Will you end up putting it in a bag of some sort?

    If, the seven inch iPad addressed two of those three things then I'd say it is an improvement in portability over a regular iPad.

    What is so hard to understand about that?

    Someone cracked a joke about SUV sales in regards to my analogy. Well, all the effort at focusing on a at the time a "niche" American segment with little return only got GM bailed out by the Government, Chrysler sold to Fiat and Ford barely holding on. Because the Big Three didn't recognize a fad from what people really need and will still continue to buy when money got tight. Instead they diluted the market with various sizes of SUV's and when gas prices rose they were stuck holding the bag.

    The middle ground of the tablet, phone or Phablet is a fashion niche market. It would dilute the Apple brand to start making to many products. With more product sizes margins get trimmed. The TV industry is a perfect example of low margins. Product differentiation along with the necessity to build many different sizes of the same essential product is not cheap.

    So to sum it all up, in the long run I think it would be foolish for Apple to chase the Goldielocks market/mentality such as yourself.

    Im still waiting for the iPhone nano that everyone thought we "needed" even though the current trend is that screens are getting larger.
  • Reply 147 of 239
    island hermitisland hermit Posts: 6,217member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post





    It's pretty clear he never actually believed that. He was lowballing to kick up the stock prices.

    Now, back to the first part. As of late, some of Apple's computers have been falling further into niches. Let's look at the 17" MacBook Pro. If Apple is a "niche company", they would have kept it around.

    They didn't. They're not. The majority of purchases are the other models, so the other models remain.

    The Mac Pro, too, has fallen into a niche, but that's to be expected, as it was doomed to this fate since the name change and Intel transition. Now Tim Cook claims there'll be a new Mac Pro next year. One can only assume it's going to be a more mainstream computer. But what does that imply?

    The Mac Mini already serves the needs of the low end, and the iMac serves the needs of the middle. The Mac Pro therefore needs to be changed to serve the ENTIRETY of the high-end, not just "workstation" needs. I even want the new Mac Pro to take sales away from the 27" iMac, because pros are jumping back up to it.


     


    The Mac was a niche product for years and years and years, selling to education and the graphics market... and eventually trying to sell to the majority but failing badly, even losing the education market. It's true, SJ changed all of that... but did Steve truly believe that the iPhone and iPad would  turn out to be anything other than niche products. How many others believed the iPad would fail. It was never expected to succeed by most (except for SJ and a few others, maybe)


     


    In the same sense, did Samsung really foresee 7-10 million in sales for the Note. Now it seems that, like the iPad, they (Samsung) have found a product that could turn out to have its own category. Nobody can tell me that they are not trying to sell that product to the majority. By building a larger Note they seem to be exploring that possibility. It could be that others were throwing their R&D into the wrong category (7" tablets). Maybe a product like the Note will be the real success story. It seems to have found a wider audience than current 7" tablets, although 'if" Apple builds one then that might change.

  • Reply 148 of 239
    bmason1270bmason1270 Posts: 258member
    The Mac was a niche product for years and years and years, selling to education and the graphics market... and eventually trying to sell to the majority but failing badly, even losing the education market. It's true, SJ changed all of that... but did Steve truly believe that the iPhone and iPad would  turn out to be anything other than niche products. How many others believed the iPad would fail. It was never expected to succeed by most (except for SJ and a few others, maybe)

    In the same sense, did Samsung really foresee 7-10 million in sales for the Note. Now it seems that, like the iPad, they (Samsung) have found a product that could turn out to have its own category. By building a larger Note they seem to be exploring that possibility. It could be that others were throwing their R&D into the wrong category (7" tablets). Maybe a product like the Note will be the real success story. It seems to have found a wider audience than current 7" tablets, although 'if" Apple builds one then that might change.

    I'm sure that Apple realizes that making a larger screen for the iPhone will snag a few extra buyers but going over 4" would might end up losing existing customers. Anyone that likes the old form factor would still be able to buy the 4S.

    As someone mentioned, though, the Note is not used as a phone in the traditional sense (ie. bt headset) and I can understand how someone would prefer the larger screen as it would better bridge the gap between a tablet and a phone... imho.

    7-10 million Notes or 5 million? Which is it. You are swinging between 5 million total possible sales here. And you say I'm "all over the map"!
  • Reply 149 of 239
    island hermitisland hermit Posts: 6,217member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bmason1270 View Post





    My argument is this:

    Although a seven inch iPad will sell initially, the justification of ground breaking portability of the device is an exaggeration. It, in many ways will be no more portable than a regular iPad.

    Again Seven inch iPad:

    Can you carry it in your pocket?

    Would you be more likely to just carry it around? Assuming you have a smart phone.

    Will you end up putting it in a bag of some sort?

    Ten inch iPad:

    Can you carry it in your pocket?

    Would you be more likely to just carry it around? Assuming you have a smart phone.

    Will you end up putting it in a bag of some sort?

    If, the seven inch iPad addressed two of those three things then I'd say it is an improvement in portability over a regular iPad.

    What is so hard to understand about that?

    Someone cracked a joke about SUV sales in regards to my analogy. Well, all the effort at focusing on a at the time a "niche" American segment with little return only got GM bailed out by the Government, Chrysler sold to Fiat and Ford barely holding on. Because the Big Three didn't recognize a fad from what people really need and will still continue to buy when money got tight. Instead they diluted the market with various sizes of SUV's and when gas prices rose they were stuck holding the bag.

    The middle ground of the tablet, phone or Phablet is a fashion niche market. It would dilute the Apple brand to start making to many products. With more product sizes margins get trimmed. The TV industry is a perfect example of low margins. Product differentiation along with the necessity to build many different sizes of the same essential product is not cheap.

    So to sum it all up, in the long run I think it would be foolish for Apple to chase the Goldielocks market/mentality such as yourself.

    Im still waiting for the iPhone nano that everyone thought we "needed" even though the current trend is that screens are getting larger.


     


     


    What is so hard for you to understand that, to me, it will increase its ability to be transported. A product that is 54.3381% smaller than a 10" iPad will make a big difference.


     


    The iPad was a goldielocks market initially.  [and then Apple sells 5 million of the 7" but still retains sales of 14 million 10"... hmmm... "winner winner, chicken dinner'.  Gained some more iOS customers]

  • Reply 150 of 239
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    [quote name="island hermit" url="/t/151132/samsung-galaxy-note-ii-rumored-to-get-even-bigger-with-5-5-display/120#post_2142285"]The Mac was a niche product for years… It's true, SJ changed all of that…[/QUOTE]

    Therefore they're no longer a niche company. The present is what matters here. What they've shaped themselves to be matters more than what they used to do.

    Nintendo used to sell decks of playing cards.

    [QUOTE]but did Steve truly believe that the iPhone and iPad would turn out to be anything other than niche products.[/QUOTE]

    Absolutely!

    [QUOTE]How many others believed the iPad would fail. It was never expected to succeed by most (except for SJ and a few others, maybe)[/QUOTE]

    Sure, but that doesn't matter in the slightest. What actually happened matters.
  • Reply 151 of 239
    island hermitisland hermit Posts: 6,217member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bmason1270 View Post





    7-10 million Notes or 5 million? Which is it. You are swinging between 5 million total possible sales here. And you say I'm "all over the map"!


     


    Comprehension is important.


     


    "over 5 million" was what i said initially. I think 7-10 million is over 5 million... at least the last time I checked.

  • Reply 152 of 239
    island hermitisland hermit Posts: 6,217member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post




    Quote:

    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

    Sure, but that doesn't matter in the slightest. What actually happened matters.




     


    ... and then you conveniently leave out the rest of my post about the Note.


     


    Which is exactly my point as you state. "What actually happened matters."

  • Reply 153 of 239
    bmason1270bmason1270 Posts: 258member

    What is so hard for you to understand that, to me, it will increase its ability to be transported. A product that is 54.3381% smaller than a 10" iPad will make a big difference.

    The iPad was a goldielocks market initially.

    And an SUV has more utility than a minivan yet it is never or rarely used.

    Yes 54% smaller is smaller but still not small enough to put in your pocket. You will still need a bag.

    Please explain to me how your real world use will change with a product that is smaller yet not more portable as I have defined? (and I think the three examples of portability are honest real world examples).
  • Reply 154 of 239
    island hermitisland hermit Posts: 6,217member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bmason1270 View Post





    And an SUV has more utility than a minivan yet it is never or rarely used.

    Yes 54% smaller is smaller but still not small enough to put in your pocket. You will still need a bag.

    Please explain to me how your real world use will change with a product that is smaller yet not more portable as I have defined? (and I think the three examples of portability are honest real world examples).


     


    Are you saying the 10' iPad is an SUV?


     


    Har!


     


    I know, I know... the car companies never made any money on SUVs. /s

  • Reply 155 of 239
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member
    ... and then you conveniently leave out the rest of my post about the Note.

    Which is exactly my point as you state. "What actually happened matters."

    And in the grand scheme of things, that's niche sales. Apple already owns the entire market, both in marketshare and profit. Punching out a bunch of units and calling them sold does not a mainstream product make.
  • Reply 156 of 239
    bmason1270bmason1270 Posts: 258member
    Comprehension is important.

    "over 5 million" was what i said initially. I think 7-10 million is over 5 million... at least the last time I checked.

    I'm sure that Apple realizes that making a larger screen for the iPhone will snag a few extra buyers but going over 4" would might end up losing existing customers. Anyone that likes the old form factor would still be able to buy the 4S.

    As someone mentioned, though, the Note is not used as a phone in the traditional sense (ie. bt headset) and I can understand how someone would prefer the larger screen as it would better bridge the gap between a tablet and a phone... imho.

    Over 5 million could be infinite. Again, you are "all over the map." comprehend that you have swung from between 5 million and infinity to 7-10 million.
  • Reply 157 of 239
    island hermitisland hermit Posts: 6,217member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post





    And in the grand scheme of things, that's niche sales. Apple already owns the entire market, both in marketshare and profit. Punching out a bunch of units and calling them sold does not a mainstream product make.


     


    What?


     


    BS

  • Reply 158 of 239
    bmason1270bmason1270 Posts: 258member
    Are you saying the 10' iPad is an SUV?

    Har!

    I know, I know... the car companies never made any money on SUVs. /s


    No, the SUV is a fad like the phone market only distinguishing itself now with screen sizes.

    If the car companies made money on SUV's would GM have been bailed out, and would Fiat own Chrysler?
  • Reply 159 of 239
    island hermitisland hermit Posts: 6,217member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bmason1270 View Post





    Over 5 million could be infinite. Again, you are "all over the map." comprehend that you have swung from between 5 million and infinity to 7-10 million.


     


     


    LOLOLOLOLOL.... you are a real funny guy.

  • Reply 160 of 239
    bmason1270bmason1270 Posts: 258member

    LOLOLOLOLOL.... you are a real funny guy.


    Take the number range you presented me to Tim Cook and tell him to start up another factory line and see who laughs first.

    Keep in mind Apple sold 37 million iPhones in the first quarter of 2012 world wide.
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