The ability to repair things as expensive as a computer is important. The idea of having to trash a whole product and replace it, just because a single component goes bad, is not very environmentally friendly. When it becomes cheaper for Apple to replace the whole computer than to repair a component, then it isn't really an environmentally friendly product no matter what materials are used to make it.
Do you think that if your battery goes bad Apple will disassemble their computer components with their special drivers, heat the body for who knows how long, remove the old battery, then glue a new battery in the chassis, and then reinstall all of the components that were taken out? I doubt it. They'll probably just throw away the old one and replace the whole unit. The old one will be recycled and added to the trash stream. A repairable computer would still be in use for years to come, delaying that bit of hardware from entering the system.
Yes and no. Can Apple unglue and reglue the batteries? Probably, but we need more confirmation from Apple. Other than that, logic board and so on is repairable. In this case it is replaceable.
Someone should do a proper study about a MacBook Pro Retina and piece-of-crap Dell and see what the lifetime and repair, recycling process is. Something tells me a 2 year old Dell is pretty much landfill, whereas a 3 year old MacBook Pro Retina is still very highly prized.
It doesn't let Apple off the hook, but I am vastly more concerned with garbage PCs that are, literally, garbage the moment they come off the factory line, doubly so when Windows is installed, because in 2 months it is so laggy and bloated nobody feels like using it.
Also iPads and iPhones ~ what is the recycling and repair process vs Android devices? Important for us to know.
Seems EPEAT will have to be redefined around Apple.
And it will be.
iFixit sums it up nicely: “Apple’s decision to opt out of the most basic of eco-standards demonstrates that, despite the costs, design supersedes the environment.”
Correct (and I have no problem with that whatsoever, given the OTHER pollutants in the environment that are a far greater cause for worry.) Except the "problem" is consumer-driven, not industry or specifically Apple-driven. Consumers are addicted to Apple gear, which just so happens to align toward the "design supersedes the environment" slogan. (it really doesn't, but I'll throw the sensationalists a bone.)
Consumers vote with their wallets. And they'll continue to hold them WIDE OPEN to Apple.
But have no fear, environmental standards for products will be redesigned around consumer demand. As usual.
Steve Jobs is gone, his close connection to Al Gore is gone, and the larger picture of Apple's future is gone. The new Macbook pro retina display does not use glass anymore. There was a reason why Steve Jobs spent so much time on this issue in his keynotes. Jon Ive's design sense is going to take over the environmental concern that came with the big picture that no one in Apple's team is capable of seeing. They are all smart and brilliant but no visionaries. Apple was cool for today's environmentally oriented kids; it was no Samsung. It'll take about 10 years before Apple loses its edge, but it's bound to happen.
People saying that Apple is giving up being "green" are idiots.
Apple pulling out of the EPEAT doesnt mean their products are less recyclable since they have a free recycling program, you just have to take ur old equipment to an apple store and they will do it for free, thats more than most other electronic companies.
My guess is, they are pulling out simply because EPEAT is outdated and doesnt mix well with their prospects of the future, some may say that the ability to dissasemble one product to change one faulty component is equal to increase reusability, but that is not always true for all consumers, and more so when Apple offers these changes for free (when it's a known issue) or under guarantee.
[quote name="MildlyGreen" url="/t/151144/apple-pulls-products-from-government-backed-green-electronics-list/40#post_2142266"]Steve Jobs is gone, his close connection to Al Gore is gone, and the larger picture of Apple's future is gone.[/QUOTE]
No, it isn't.
[QUOTE]The new Macbook pro retina display does not use glass anymore.[/QUOTE]
Uh…
[QUOTE]There was a reason why Steve Jobs spent so much time on this issue in his keynotes.[/QUOTE]
He… didn't really ever spend a lot of time on it. It would either be one sentence ("We're now EPEAT Gold.") or he'd run down that simple checkmark list as a footnote.
[QUOTE]They are all smart and brilliant but no visionaries.[/QUOTE]
Which you know, because you know them personally and work with them daily.
[QUOTE]Apple was cool for today's environmentally oriented kids[/QUOTE]
No kid gives one iota about the environment. Unless they're Ena Ayase, and even then she doesn't get it right.
Now before the Fandroids get a bad case of self-righteous indignation, most of your favorite Android phones are manufactured by Samsung and they've been a leading company in showing contempt for the environment by using banned and highly toxic substances according to the Public Eye Awards, a Berne Declaration and Greenpeace Switzerland initiative. See;
Of course Microsoft partnerships with Samsung for their products, and Apple does business with their patent war enemy as well. So Google and Microsoft should do the right thing and join Apple in leaving EPEAT.
People saying that Apple is giving up being "green" are idiots.
Apple pulling out of the EPEAT doesnt mean their products are less recyclable since they have a free recycling program, you just have to take ur old equipment to an apple store and they will do it for free, thats more than most other electronic companies.
My guess is, they are pulling out simply because EPEAT is outdated and doesnt mix well with their prospects of the future, some may say that the ability to dissasemble one product to change one faulty component is equal to increase reusability, but that is not always true for all consumers, and more so when Apple offers these changes for free (when it's a known issue) or under guarantee.
I don't think that the EPEAT rating is very important to Apple at all. Like many people here, I've bought many Apple devices throughout the years, and not a single one has ever been thrown away or recycled yet, because I still have all of them, and they all still work, even the ones going back more than a decade!
Compare that to the average PC user who buys one of the bottom of the barrel PC's, which is by far the most sold kind of PC, and their lifespan is incredibly short. The average PC user is a far greater polluter and killer of this planet than the average Apple user. If the green loons implemented a death penalty for wasteful, damaging products, then most PC users would have probably been put to death a long time ago, while I and most other Mac users would still be alive and kicking.
Also, Apple's computers are no longer their main source of revenue, as most of us know. And iPads, iPhones and the like are not covered by EPEAT, so it has zero effect on those devices, and the US government and other corporations that have EPEAT rules in place will still be able to buy all of the iPads and iPhones that they desire. I also think that there is far too much wasting of federal tax money, and I don't think that those kind of people deserve to use Retina Macbook Pro's to begin with. If an individual wants one, then they should purchase it with their own personal money, and not on my dime.
So, I'm totally ok with Apple pulling out from EPEAT. With the ever decreasing super thinness of Apple's products, they probably had a very good reason for doing so.
Overall this doesn't smell like we have the whole story. I'll be interested to hear when more leaks out about this.
Meanwhile I have to go see if my employer requries EPEAT for new hardware purchases. If so, I'm in big trouble since all I do for them is Mac I.T.
According to the WSJ, 222/300 universities give preference to EPEAT certified equipment with 70/300 requiring it and they make up 10-15% of Apple's revenue.
On the other hand, iOS devices don't have this certification and they are being bought regardless so it might not be that important.
I don't know why they had to glue the batteries in anyway. iFixit couldn't pry them out with a metal ruler and said there was too much glue to attempt to remove the battery. It can be heated but it's not a great idea to go about heating up a battery:
The battery can obviously be removed as Apple charge $200 to do it but they'd have to be glued back in properly. I don't see how they couldn't have used a bracket, screwed the bracket to the chassis and then glued the battery to the bracket. It wouldn't have increased the thickness significantly.
The rating might also apply to the display now that they fused the glass to the panel. I think it would be a good idea to do that with the iMac display but only if they allow you to remove the hard drive more easily. You shouldn't need to ever take the display out if you can get to the RAM and storage easily.
What amazes me about this thread is how many people jump out of the woodwork with their knee jerk sensibilities on the topic of the environment, without giving Apple the slightest benefit of doubt (and on the other side, environmentalists the slightest benefit of doubt).
Apple has led on the issue of corporate environmental responsibility, and will continue to. There must be a pretty darn good reason for why they're doing what they are, but we're not going to it get it from Apple PR press releases.
Apple's shareholder meeting is coming up soon, and this topic will be raised. Tim Cook will have the answer. End of story.
Steve Jobs is gone, his close connection to Al Gore is gone, and the larger picture of Apple's future is gone.
No, it isn't.
Quote:
The new Macbook pro retina display does not use glass anymore.
Uh…
Quote:
There was a reason why Steve Jobs spent so much time on this issue in his keynotes.
He… didn't really ever spend a lot of time on it. It would either be one sentence ("We're now EPEAT Gold.") or he'd run down that simple checkmark list as a footnote.
Even if he spent 4 minutes, it's a huge amount because he didn't cover a lot of things at all. Anything that figured there was a deeply calculated move. No need to try to be too smart about it. This isn't a religious discussion. We don't know how much Jobs really cared about the environment but we all know he cared about it in public. The question is why?
Quote:
They are all smart and brilliant but no visionaries.
Which you know, because you know them personally and work with them daily.
Apple was cool for today's environmentally oriented kids
No kid gives one iota about the environment. Unless they're Ena Ayase, and even then she doesn't get it right.
Most environmental campaigns are run on the shoulders of college kids; they were behind most agitations; college campus boycotts made Nike change its practices in Indonesia. A sizable section of this crowd is quite aware. Yes, it's possible that they don't care as much as previous generations of young college kids did but in the end, there is always more at stake for them because they'll be on this earth a bit longer.
Apple's shareholder meeting is coming up soon, and this topic will be raised. Tim Cook will have the answer. End of story.
That's a good point. Just a few weeks before the meeting is interesting. If Apple wanted this to be as hush as possible, based on the available evidence, they should have done this right after the conference call so there is 3 months to let the dust settle.
In its teardown of the new MacBook Pro with Retina display, iFixit said the laptop is an engineering marvel but is "to date, the least repairable laptop we've taken apart. Apple has packed all of the things we hate into one beautiful little package." The aluminum unibody chassis was not only secured by proprietary pentalobe screws but had soldered-on RAM and a fused display assembly. Perhaps most telling is the construction of the battery pack which is glued to the frame rather than secured by screws.
iFixit is more like iCantFigureOutHowToFixit... somebody buy these guys a clue.
iFixit reminds me of a caveman who is confronted by a piece of advanced technology it can't understand, and is only capable of judging by the standards of the caveman.
That's a good point. Just a few weeks before the meeting is interesting. If Apple wanted this to be as hush as possible, based on the available evidence, they should have done this right after the conference call so there is 3 months to let the dust settle.
Shareholders care about making money, that's the bottom line for most of them. Besides a few individuals that might whine, this is a non-issue, in my opinion.
iFixit reminds me of a caveman who is confronted by a piece of advanced technology it can't understand, and is only capable of judging by the standards of the caveman.
Wow. I guess that works, too. I thought you were going to post that video of the Middle Ages inventor again.
Wow, that video. "Manifesto" on the wall, first cell phone ever on the shelf, bare circuit board grasped unceremoniously in a clamp on that magnifying tool…
… No, she's… no. No one is that dumb. This whole thing's a play… Please…
Steve Jobs is gone, his close connection to Al Gore is gone, and the larger picture of Apple's future is gone. The new Macbook pro retina display does not use glass anymore. There was a reason why Steve Jobs spent so much time on this issue in his keynotes. Jon Ive's design sense is going to take over the environmental concern that came with the big picture that no one in Apple's team is capable of seeing. They are all smart and brilliant but no visionaries. Apple was cool for today's environmentally oriented kids; it was no Samsung. It'll take about 10 years before Apple loses its edge, but it's bound to happen.
And here's the alternate view: everything you posted is complete fiction.
Actually, I live in a big city and I don't even have any car. It's not needed, and it's quicker to get around without one, not to mention parking hell.
Even though I think that there are many scammers involved in the green movement, and I'm not too concerned with being "green" myself, I'm probably the most green person on this thread. I bet that my carbon footprint is most likely one thousandth that of somebody like Al Gore.
Well I guess that your love of crayons is quite green.
Religion is about beliefs. Environmental protection is about science. Because if you like it or not, you are an animal, and what kills the biosphere will kill you, or if you live short enough, your children or grand children, should you be (un)lucky enough to reproduce.
People can be as ignorant as they want to be, but if their ignorance kills, then their ignorance must be overruled.
No, not all environmental protection is about science. There is a great deal of junk science involved and also a great deal of ignorance amongst the green crowd, not to mention politics, which has nothing to do with science at all. I remember watching a video a while back, I think it was Penn & Teller, and they were at some green convention and they went around getting people to sign a petition to ban H20, and there was no shortage of morons that were willing to sign it. Also, global warming is baloney for the most part and I have no patience for hysterical people who are too ignorant to live in 2012. Greenies remind me of people who thought that the earth was flat hundreds of years ago.
As for overruling ignorance, that goes both ways, and if the greenies get too many wild ideas, then I would be in favor of locking some of them up, possibly in detention centers, as they represent a danger to society, due to their ignorance and extremist ideas and their threat to my personal freedom.
Comments
Yes and no. Can Apple unglue and reglue the batteries? Probably, but we need more confirmation from Apple. Other than that, logic board and so on is repairable. In this case it is replaceable.
Someone should do a proper study about a MacBook Pro Retina and piece-of-crap Dell and see what the lifetime and repair, recycling process is. Something tells me a 2 year old Dell is pretty much landfill, whereas a 3 year old MacBook Pro Retina is still very highly prized.
It doesn't let Apple off the hook, but I am vastly more concerned with garbage PCs that are, literally, garbage the moment they come off the factory line, doubly so when Windows is installed, because in 2 months it is so laggy and bloated nobody feels like using it.
Also iPads and iPhones ~ what is the recycling and repair process vs Android devices? Important for us to know.
Seems EPEAT will have to be redefined around Apple.
And it will be.
iFixit sums it up nicely: “Apple’s decision to opt out of the most basic of eco-standards demonstrates that, despite the costs, design supersedes the environment.”
Correct (and I have no problem with that whatsoever, given the OTHER pollutants in the environment that are a far greater cause for worry.) Except the "problem" is consumer-driven, not industry or specifically Apple-driven. Consumers are addicted to Apple gear, which just so happens to align toward the "design supersedes the environment" slogan. (it really doesn't, but I'll throw the sensationalists a bone.)
Consumers vote with their wallets. And they'll continue to hold them WIDE OPEN to Apple.
But have no fear, environmental standards for products will be redesigned around consumer demand. As usual.
Steve Jobs is gone, his close connection to Al Gore is gone, and the larger picture of Apple's future is gone. The new Macbook pro retina display does not use glass anymore. There was a reason why Steve Jobs spent so much time on this issue in his keynotes. Jon Ive's design sense is going to take over the environmental concern that came with the big picture that no one in Apple's team is capable of seeing. They are all smart and brilliant but no visionaries. Apple was cool for today's environmentally oriented kids; it was no Samsung. It'll take about 10 years before Apple loses its edge, but it's bound to happen.
People saying that Apple is giving up being "green" are idiots.
Apple pulling out of the EPEAT doesnt mean their products are less recyclable since they have a free recycling program, you just have to take ur old equipment to an apple store and they will do it for free, thats more than most other electronic companies.
My guess is, they are pulling out simply because EPEAT is outdated and doesnt mix well with their prospects of the future, some may say that the ability to dissasemble one product to change one faulty component is equal to increase reusability, but that is not always true for all consumers, and more so when Apple offers these changes for free (when it's a known issue) or under guarantee.
No, it isn't.
[QUOTE]The new Macbook pro retina display does not use glass anymore.[/QUOTE]
Uh…
[QUOTE]There was a reason why Steve Jobs spent so much time on this issue in his keynotes.[/QUOTE]
He… didn't really ever spend a lot of time on it. It would either be one sentence ("We're now EPEAT Gold.") or he'd run down that simple checkmark list as a footnote.
[QUOTE]They are all smart and brilliant but no visionaries.[/QUOTE]
Which you know, because you know them personally and work with them daily.
[QUOTE]Apple was cool for today's environmentally oriented kids[/QUOTE]
No kid gives one iota about the environment. Unless they're Ena Ayase, and even then she doesn't get it right.
[URL=http://www.justmeans.com/Public-Eye--Awards--Companies-That-Go-Against-the-Grain-of-Sustainability-and-Social-Responsibility/51507.html]http://www.justmeans.com/Public-Eye--Awards--Companies-That-Go-Against-the-Grain-of-Sustainability-and-Social-Responsibility/51507.html[/URL]
Of course Microsoft partnerships with Samsung for their products, and Apple does business with their patent war enemy as well. So Google and Microsoft should do the right thing and join Apple in leaving EPEAT.
That just about captures it.
I don't think that the EPEAT rating is very important to Apple at all. Like many people here, I've bought many Apple devices throughout the years, and not a single one has ever been thrown away or recycled yet, because I still have all of them, and they all still work, even the ones going back more than a decade!
Compare that to the average PC user who buys one of the bottom of the barrel PC's, which is by far the most sold kind of PC, and their lifespan is incredibly short. The average PC user is a far greater polluter and killer of this planet than the average Apple user. If the green loons implemented a death penalty for wasteful, damaging products, then most PC users would have probably been put to death a long time ago, while I and most other Mac users would still be alive and kicking.
Also, Apple's computers are no longer their main source of revenue, as most of us know. And iPads, iPhones and the like are not covered by EPEAT, so it has zero effect on those devices, and the US government and other corporations that have EPEAT rules in place will still be able to buy all of the iPads and iPhones that they desire. I also think that there is far too much wasting of federal tax money, and I don't think that those kind of people deserve to use Retina Macbook Pro's to begin with. If an individual wants one, then they should purchase it with their own personal money, and not on my dime.
So, I'm totally ok with Apple pulling out from EPEAT. With the ever decreasing super thinness of Apple's products, they probably had a very good reason for doing so.
According to the WSJ, 222/300 universities give preference to EPEAT certified equipment with 70/300 requiring it and they make up 10-15% of Apple's revenue.
On the other hand, iOS devices don't have this certification and they are being bought regardless so it might not be that important.
I don't know why they had to glue the batteries in anyway. iFixit couldn't pry them out with a metal ruler and said there was too much glue to attempt to remove the battery. It can be heated but it's not a great idea to go about heating up a battery:
The battery can obviously be removed as Apple charge $200 to do it but they'd have to be glued back in properly. I don't see how they couldn't have used a bracket, screwed the bracket to the chassis and then glued the battery to the bracket. It wouldn't have increased the thickness significantly.
The rating might also apply to the display now that they fused the glass to the panel. I think it would be a good idea to do that with the iMac display but only if they allow you to remove the hard drive more easily. You shouldn't need to ever take the display out if you can get to the RAM and storage easily.
Apple has led on the issue of corporate environmental responsibility, and will continue to. There must be a pretty darn good reason for why they're doing what they are, but we're not going to it get it from Apple PR press releases.
Apple's shareholder meeting is coming up soon, and this topic will be raised. Tim Cook will have the answer. End of story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Quote:
Originally Posted by MildlyGreen
Steve Jobs is gone, his close connection to Al Gore is gone, and the larger picture of Apple's future is gone.
No, it isn't.
Quote:
The new Macbook pro retina display does not use glass anymore.
Uh…
Quote:
There was a reason why Steve Jobs spent so much time on this issue in his keynotes.
He… didn't really ever spend a lot of time on it. It would either be one sentence ("We're now EPEAT Gold.") or he'd run down that simple checkmark list as a footnote.
Even if he spent 4 minutes, it's a huge amount because he didn't cover a lot of things at all. Anything that figured there was a deeply calculated move. No need to try to be too smart about it. This isn't a religious discussion. We don't know how much Jobs really cared about the environment but we all know he cared about it in public. The question is why?
Quote:
They are all smart and brilliant but no visionaries.
Which you know, because you know them personally and work with them daily.
David Pogue apparently knew them better than you or I do: http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/10/06/steve-jobs-imitated-never-duplicated/
Quote:
Apple was cool for today's environmentally oriented kids
No kid gives one iota about the environment. Unless they're Ena Ayase, and even then she doesn't get it right.
Most environmental campaigns are run on the shoulders of college kids; they were behind most agitations; college campus boycotts made Nike change its practices in Indonesia. A sizable section of this crowd is quite aware. Yes, it's possible that they don't care as much as previous generations of young college kids did but in the end, there is always more at stake for them because they'll be on this earth a bit longer.
That's a good point. Just a few weeks before the meeting is interesting. If Apple wanted this to be as hush as possible, based on the available evidence, they should have done this right after the conference call so there is 3 months to let the dust settle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
In its teardown of the new MacBook Pro with Retina display, iFixit said the laptop is an engineering marvel but is "to date, the least repairable laptop we've taken apart. Apple has packed all of the things we hate into one beautiful little package." The aluminum unibody chassis was not only secured by proprietary pentalobe screws but had soldered-on RAM and a fused display assembly. Perhaps most telling is the construction of the battery pack which is glued to the frame rather than secured by screws.
iFixit is more like iCantFigureOutHowToFixit... somebody buy these guys a clue.
How to remove pentalobe screws: http://www.amazon.com/5-Point-Pentalobe-Screwdriver-Macbook/dp/B004KB8Z52
How to quickly desolder chips:
How to quickly dissolve glue: http://www.instructables.com/id/Easily-Remove-Dried-Hot-Glue-aka-Hot-Melt/
iFixit reminds me of a caveman who is confronted by a piece of advanced technology it can't understand, and is only capable of judging by the standards of the caveman.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
That's a good point. Just a few weeks before the meeting is interesting. If Apple wanted this to be as hush as possible, based on the available evidence, they should have done this right after the conference call so there is 3 months to let the dust settle.
Shareholders care about making money, that's the bottom line for most of them. Besides a few individuals that might whine, this is a non-issue, in my opinion.
[VIDEO]
And so you're implying there can never be another visionary at Apple, or that the current crop of executives can never have a vision?
That must be why they don't work, then. Not the kids, the campaigns. Somehow that (kids do it) doesn't sound right to me.
Wow. I guess that works, too. I thought you were going to post that video of the Middle Ages inventor again.
Wow, that video. "Manifesto" on the wall, first cell phone ever on the shelf, bare circuit board grasped unceremoniously in a clamp on that magnifying tool…
… No, she's… no. No one is that dumb. This whole thing's a play… Please…
????
Quote:
Originally Posted by MildlyGreen
Steve Jobs is gone, his close connection to Al Gore is gone, and the larger picture of Apple's future is gone. The new Macbook pro retina display does not use glass anymore. There was a reason why Steve Jobs spent so much time on this issue in his keynotes. Jon Ive's design sense is going to take over the environmental concern that came with the big picture that no one in Apple's team is capable of seeing. They are all smart and brilliant but no visionaries. Apple was cool for today's environmentally oriented kids; it was no Samsung. It'll take about 10 years before Apple loses its edge, but it's bound to happen.
And here's the alternate view: everything you posted is complete fiction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][
Actually, I live in a big city and I don't even have any car. It's not needed, and it's quicker to get around without one, not to mention parking hell.
Even though I think that there are many scammers involved in the green movement, and I'm not too concerned with being "green" myself, I'm probably the most green person on this thread. I bet that my carbon footprint is most likely one thousandth that of somebody like Al Gore.
Well I guess that your love of crayons is quite green.
Carbon footprint IQ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcfa
Religion is about beliefs. Environmental protection is about science. Because if you like it or not, you are an animal, and what kills the biosphere will kill you, or if you live short enough, your children or grand children, should you be (un)lucky enough to reproduce.
People can be as ignorant as they want to be, but if their ignorance kills, then their ignorance must be overruled.
No, not all environmental protection is about science. There is a great deal of junk science involved and also a great deal of ignorance amongst the green crowd, not to mention politics, which has nothing to do with science at all. I remember watching a video a while back, I think it was Penn & Teller, and they were at some green convention and they went around getting people to sign a petition to ban H20, and there was no shortage of morons that were willing to sign it. Also, global warming is baloney for the most part and I have no patience for hysterical people who are too ignorant to live in 2012. Greenies remind me of people who thought that the earth was flat hundreds of years ago.
As for overruling ignorance, that goes both ways, and if the greenies get too many wild ideas, then I would be in favor of locking some of them up, possibly in detention centers, as they represent a danger to society, due to their ignorance and extremist ideas and their threat to my personal freedom.
Is it the Mitchell & Webb video?
[VIDEO]
[VIDEO]