You mean, when you remove the optical drive in a laptop, it gets thinner? Man, I can't imagine if this kind of behavior existed back in the 80s or something, we'd have to have multiple keyboard designs because someone would own a patent for the QWERTY keyboard for 20 years.
Honestly, if you build a quality product, it will NOT matter if competitors try to copy you, because a copy is never as good as the original. It becomes greed when you say "I want all of YOUR sales because you're product looks like my product because they are both laptops!"
I think of all the money that's been wasted on lawyers instead of being pumped right back into R&D. The only time I've ever seen functionality clearly lifted from one product to another was Siri and S Voice, and guess what, no one uses S Voice because it's crappy. Apple doesn't need to worry about it. That's how innovation works. If you've really done something innovative, competitors will not be able to rip off what you've done so easily, and by the time they do, you've moved onto the next thing and it doesn't matter anymore.
Ummm so if they cant copy exactly it is the only indication to real innovation?
Ummm no. Even if it is the simplist thing in the world, someone has the right to patent it or protect it in some manner. Just because an innovation is stupid simple, does not mean that anyone should be able copy it. So yes IMO.. look and feel should be 'protected'(maybe not by patents but by something). IMO(and I do realize there is a degree of subjectivity) Android and more to the point Samsung copied overall (not just one or two items) but overall look and feel. Windows phone has different look and feel, palm OS has different look and feel.
As the owner of both a MacBook Air 11.6 and an HP Folio 13, I can find not a single design similarity between it and the MacBook Air other than they both happen to be slim form-factor laptops.
Anyway... Things like the general shape of a device should never be allowed patents in the first place.
Isn't the point of the article that the makers are afraid of getting too close to the design ... in other words they'd like to be a lot closer in copying but are worried of replicas (although I think I saw a Sony that was really close). I agree that picture you posted is not close to a Mac, it's really horrible in comparison.
As the owner of both a MacBook Air 11.6 and an HP Folio 13, I can find not a single design similarity between it and the MacBook Air other than they both happen to be slim form-factor laptops.
Anyway... Things like the general shape of a device should never be allowed patents in the first place.
If you took away the color difference, they would look much more similar.
I quite specifically noted that it was the 'tapered shape' that the MacBook Air shares with the 2004 Sony Vaio X505, so your (straw man) attempt at making this about the location of the keyboard is completely moot.
If you took away the color difference, they would look much more similar.
Let's just agree to disagree with on this one, as I, as well as essentially every review of the HP Folio 13, makes note that the Hp Folio 13 is one of the few ultrabooks to have a very distinctive (as in non-tapering) shape/look, one very unlike the MacBook Air.
Let's just agree to disagree with on this one, as I, as well as essentially every review of the HP Folio 13, makes note that the Hp Folio 13 is one of the few ultrabooks to have a very distinctive (as in non-tapering) shape/look, one very unlike the MacBook Air.
[stupid pic removed]
So your argument is that if one Ultrabook doesn't have a tapered design then no Ultrabook is blatantly copying any of Apple's designs. What a perfectly reasonable and sane argument¡
So your argument is that if one Ultrabook doesn't have a tapered design then no Ultrabook is blatantly copying any of Apple's designs. What a perfectly reasonable and sane argument¡
Reading Comprehension Issues Much?
I was very clear in stating that "the Hp Folio 13 is one of the few ultrabooks to have a very distinctive (as in non-tapering) shape/look", which was exactly what Jeff (NOT You) and I were discussing.
Oh Really... You mean like how Sony's Vaio X505 from 2004 had a tapered shape so striking that Apple appears to have found it suitable to 'use' on the MacBook Air?
I'm going to borrow a standard Samsung apologist tactic and say no one will mistake a VAIO X505 from 2004 with a modern MacBook Air.
It's funny how these coincidental similarities in HW design only seem to pop up after Apple has released a new product. It's almost as if it's not coincidental at all.
I'm still stunned that this MBA knockoff running Android is even allowed to be sold!
When the MBA was originally introduced, the typical iHaters and trolls lambasted Apple for its design, for choosing "pretty" over functionality, and <insert additional whining nonsense here>.
Now, "ultra books" are all the rage and (just about) all the makers are embracing the MBA style. By sheer coincidence, those same whiners are mysteriously nowhere to be found and those that are, praise the notebooks as competition for Apple yet don't seem to have a problem with the same design that not long ago they were criticizing. Can anyone say "Hypocrites"??
The fact it's a Digitimes article immediately puts to question the veracity of the story. However, considering what I see out there, Apple is completely in its right as far as I'm concerned to go after anyone that mimics its design. Go do your own freaking R&D and STOP using Apple as your R&D department!
The ultrabook designs that I see out there, while MBA clones, are truly horrible. Sure some may cost less, but you see where that cost-cutting is going by using inferior displays, bad keyboards, flimsy designs, bad thermal management, the list keeps going.
But hey, you're saving your $100 right? After all, it's all about (and only) price so you deserve what you pay for.
I recently purchased the Samsung series 9 laptop. It is for my wife, and since she has to use it for work where she needs MS Visio and Project (both of which are unavailable for the Mac), we had to go the Windows route (otherwise, to meet her spec for the laptop - lightweight + good battery life - we'd have gone with either the MBP or MBA).
Samsung has built a beautiful laptop in terms of finish and quality (perceived), but the display on the 15", which is what we bought, is beyond Bad! The multitouch trackpad, although not as polished as in the Macs, is a welcome addition in the Windows world and very similar in capabilities to those found on the Mac laptops. And that is what I want to comment on in this post.
Anyone who has seen the touchpad settings in the MBx control panel has to be impressed with how thoughtfully and clearly Apple has illustrated the various multitouch gestures that can be made and whether to turn them on/off. So, one of the first things that I noticed in the Samsung was that they "wholesale ripped off" that concept/idea from the MBx! They also have some notes in a corner of that window about patents issued about it to some "Elan Technologies" (the actual multitouch capability or the design of the settings window, they haven't clarified).
I've heard not-so-good things about the Samsung ultra books. Especially the quality of the LCD display and the thermal problems. Just do what I did and load Windows 7 or XP via VMware on an MBA and be in dual-OS bliss. It's the best Windows laptop I've ever owned and that's high praise.
Don't believe me about the problem with Samsung 9 notebooks. Just read what this guy said about how he literally got burned by one... I'm a Samsung hater at heart, but at least this article came from a former Apple-hater and had the ability to man-up and admit he was wrong about why Apple has the best notebooks.
You mean, when you remove the optical drive in a laptop, it gets thinner? Man, I can't imagine if this kind of behavior existed back in the 80s or something, we'd have to have multiple keyboard designs because someone would own a patent for the QWERTY keyboard for 20 years.
We're just lucky they didn't have legions of patent lawyers back when Indo-Arabic numbers (you know, the system the world uses) were invented....
Quote:
Originally Posted by GadgetCanada
That's it. I'm going back to school to become a patent lawyer. It's gotta be the biggest growth industry right now
No one should hold their breath waiting for meaningful patent law simplification and reform.
I believe that a majority - or at least a plurality - of the members of Congress are lawyers. Messy laws are good for the law biz, and keeping things the way lawyers like (with lots and lots of grey areas - the more the better) - results in beaucoup political contributions. The trial lawyers' association - where medical malpractice suits are the bread and butter that help keep medical costs so high - is the biggest single organizational contributor to the Democratic party, which ensures that comprehensive "tort law" reform simply ain't gonna happen, though both parties are lobbied extensively by segments of the profession.
Another stat from a few decades back also hasn't likely changed: The US is the most "litiginous" (law-suit filing) society in the history of the world, tho' the EU seems to be emulating our ways. So from the legal profession's POV, their slogan about simplifying/clarifying IP law is something along the lines of, "If it ain't fixed, don't break it!"
And while it's slightly out of context, Shakespeare's admonition about the first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers (paraphrased, sorry), audiences still react viscerally to the line centuries later.....
Apple can't patent the idea of an ultra thin or portable laptop, that class existed with netbooks long before the Air. Dell has had an ultraportable for quite a while and managed to make it look nothing like the Air but still look slick. These companies are making excuses for their horrible excuse for an R&D department, they're used to just copying others & getting away with it.
Apple doesn't have a patent on ultra thin laptops - but they should be protecting their design, which has zero in common with any netbook or portable on the market. The Sony Vaio X505 may have had a tapered design in 2004 AND Apple designers may have used it as inspiration at best, but the MacBook Air is being knocked off almost exactly by what Intel has been pushing into the pc market. And yes, I agree that all of the manufacturers that are copying Apple in so many things they do, should be ashamed of themselves (and punished for the blatant copying).
When the MBA was originally introduced, the typical iHaters and trolls lambasted Apple for its design, for choosing "pretty" over functionality, and <insert additional whining nonsense here>.
Now, "ultra books" are all the rage and (just about) all the makers are embracing the MBA style. By sheer coincidence, those same whiners are mysteriously nowhere to be found and those that are, praise the notebooks as competition for Apple yet don't seem to have a problem with the same design that not long ago they were criticizing. Can anyone say "Hypocrites"??
The fact it's a Digitimes article immediately puts to question the veracity of the story. However, considering what I see out there, Apple is completely in its right as far as I'm concerned to go after anyone that mimics its design. Go do your own freaking R&D and STOP using Apple as your R&D department!
The ultrabook designs that I see out there, while MBA clones, are truly horrible. Sure some may cost less, but you see where that cost-cutting is going by using inferior displays, bad keyboards, flimsy designs, bad thermal management, the list keeps going.
But hey, you're saving your $100 right? After all, it's all about (and only) price so you deserve what you pay for.
Some of the general comments I recall are...
Only those with more money than cents will pay for a crippled notebook that's only a little bit lighter when they can one much faster that can do more.
Only fanboys think that a metal computer is a good idea.
Only idiots think thata milled aluminium chassis...
I quite specifically noted that it was the 'tapered shape' that the MacBook Air shares with the 2004 Sony Vaio X505, so your (strawman) attempt at making this about the location of the keyboard is completely moot.
Ehhh yeah, riiiight. HE's the one putting up the "strawman". <eyeroll>
The fact it's a Digitimes article immediately puts to question the veracity of the story. However, considering what I see out there, Apple is completely in its right as far as I'm concerned to go after anyone that mimics its design. Go do your own freaking R&D and STOP using Apple as your R&D department!
Its worse than that.
Intel provided a reference platform for the Ultrabooks. They did the R&D to provide a competitive platform for manufacturers wanting to compete against Apple. UI considerations are also set for them by MS and Google - so we will ignore those (it's a whole 'nuther argument).
Apple did the R&D for their internals (and lets face it, they have packed more current tech into their "Ultrabook" style platform than the Intel one had) and their UI, and applied Apple's Industrial Design (ID) aesthetic to the platform.
What is being copied is the ID. Or more to the point the styling cues Apple designed as part of their ID.
The R&D was given to them - but the ID is being copied.
Oh Really... You mean like how Sony's Vaio X505 from 2004 had a tapered shape so striking that Apple appears to have found it suitable to 'use' on the MacBook Air?
Did you ever have problems with this when you were younger?
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagamer34
You mean, when you remove the optical drive in a laptop, it gets thinner? Man, I can't imagine if this kind of behavior existed back in the 80s or something, we'd have to have multiple keyboard designs because someone would own a patent for the QWERTY keyboard for 20 years.
Honestly, if you build a quality product, it will NOT matter if competitors try to copy you, because a copy is never as good as the original. It becomes greed when you say "I want all of YOUR sales because you're product looks like my product because they are both laptops!"
I think of all the money that's been wasted on lawyers instead of being pumped right back into R&D. The only time I've ever seen functionality clearly lifted from one product to another was Siri and S Voice, and guess what, no one uses S Voice because it's crappy. Apple doesn't need to worry about it. That's how innovation works. If you've really done something innovative, competitors will not be able to rip off what you've done so easily, and by the time they do, you've moved onto the next thing and it doesn't matter anymore.
Ummm so if they cant copy exactly it is the only indication to real innovation?
Ummm no. Even if it is the simplist thing in the world, someone has the right to patent it or protect it in some manner. Just because an innovation is stupid simple, does not mean that anyone should be able copy it. So yes IMO.. look and feel should be 'protected'(maybe not by patents but by something). IMO(and I do realize there is a degree of subjectivity) Android and more to the point Samsung copied overall (not just one or two items) but overall look and feel. Windows phone has different look and feel, palm OS has different look and feel.
Isn't the point of the article that the makers are afraid of getting too close to the design ... in other words they'd like to be a lot closer in copying but are worried of replicas (although I think I saw a Sony that was really close). I agree that picture you posted is not close to a Mac, it's really horrible in comparison.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IYFCalvin
I do believe one can run Windows OS on a Mac and run it very efficiently.
I know I do.
If you took away the color difference, they would look much more similar.
No, that's not what I did at all.
Let's just agree to disagree with on this one, as I, as well as essentially every review of the HP Folio 13, makes note that the Hp Folio 13 is one of the few ultrabooks to have a very distinctive (as in non-tapering) shape/look, one very unlike the MacBook Air.
So your argument is that if one Ultrabook doesn't have a tapered design then no Ultrabook is blatantly copying any of Apple's designs. What a perfectly reasonable and sane argument¡
Reading Comprehension Issues Much?
I was very clear in stating that "the Hp Folio 13 is one of the few ultrabooks to have a very distinctive (as in non-tapering) shape/look", which was exactly what Jeff (NOT You) and I were discussing.
Have A _____ Day.
DigiTimes article. 'Nuff said.
I'm going to borrow a standard Samsung apologist tactic and say no one will mistake a VAIO X505 from 2004 with a modern MacBook Air.
That said, this is DigiTimes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
It's funny how these coincidental similarities in HW design only seem to pop up after Apple has released a new product. It's almost as if it's not coincidental at all.
I'm still stunned that this MBA knockoff running Android is even allowed to be sold!
http://www.androidauthority.com/android-book-thd-n2-a-macbook-clone-android-ics-93542/
When the MBA was originally introduced, the typical iHaters and trolls lambasted Apple for its design, for choosing "pretty" over functionality, and <insert additional whining nonsense here>.
Now, "ultra books" are all the rage and (just about) all the makers are embracing the MBA style. By sheer coincidence, those same whiners are mysteriously nowhere to be found and those that are, praise the notebooks as competition for Apple yet don't seem to have a problem with the same design that not long ago they were criticizing. Can anyone say "Hypocrites"??
The fact it's a Digitimes article immediately puts to question the veracity of the story. However, considering what I see out there, Apple is completely in its right as far as I'm concerned to go after anyone that mimics its design. Go do your own freaking R&D and STOP using Apple as your R&D department!
The ultrabook designs that I see out there, while MBA clones, are truly horrible. Sure some may cost less, but you see where that cost-cutting is going by using inferior displays, bad keyboards, flimsy designs, bad thermal management, the list keeps going.
But hey, you're saving your $100 right? After all, it's all about (and only) price so you deserve what you pay for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rajaram
I recently purchased the Samsung series 9 laptop. It is for my wife, and since she has to use it for work where she needs MS Visio and Project (both of which are unavailable for the Mac), we had to go the Windows route (otherwise, to meet her spec for the laptop - lightweight + good battery life - we'd have gone with either the MBP or MBA).
Samsung has built a beautiful laptop in terms of finish and quality (perceived), but the display on the 15", which is what we bought, is beyond Bad! The multitouch trackpad, although not as polished as in the Macs, is a welcome addition in the Windows world and very similar in capabilities to those found on the Mac laptops. And that is what I want to comment on in this post.
Anyone who has seen the touchpad settings in the MBx control panel has to be impressed with how thoughtfully and clearly Apple has illustrated the various multitouch gestures that can be made and whether to turn them on/off. So, one of the first things that I noticed in the Samsung was that they "wholesale ripped off" that concept/idea from the MBx!
I've heard not-so-good things about the Samsung ultra books. Especially the quality of the LCD display and the thermal problems. Just do what I did and load Windows 7 or XP via VMware on an MBA and be in dual-OS bliss. It's the best Windows laptop I've ever owned and that's high praise.
Don't believe me about the problem with Samsung 9 notebooks. Just read what this guy said about how he literally got burned by one... I'm a Samsung hater at heart, but at least this article came from a former Apple-hater and had the ability to man-up and admit he was wrong about why Apple has the best notebooks.
http://www.reddit.com/r/apple/related/rubzn/how_my_apple_hate_quite_literally_burned_me/
Apple forcing other companies to spend money on research and development?
wow that is so evil LOL
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagamer34
You mean, when you remove the optical drive in a laptop, it gets thinner? Man, I can't imagine if this kind of behavior existed back in the 80s or something, we'd have to have multiple keyboard designs because someone would own a patent for the QWERTY keyboard for 20 years.
We're just lucky they didn't have legions of patent lawyers back when Indo-Arabic numbers (you know, the system the world uses) were invented....
Quote:
Originally Posted by GadgetCanada
That's it. I'm going back to school to become a patent lawyer. It's gotta be the biggest growth industry right now
No one should hold their breath waiting for meaningful patent law simplification and reform.
I believe that a majority - or at least a plurality - of the members of Congress are lawyers. Messy laws are good for the law biz, and keeping things the way lawyers like (with lots and lots of grey areas - the more the better) - results in beaucoup political contributions. The trial lawyers' association - where medical malpractice suits are the bread and butter that help keep medical costs so high - is the biggest single organizational contributor to the Democratic party, which ensures that comprehensive "tort law" reform simply ain't gonna happen, though both parties are lobbied extensively by segments of the profession.
Another stat from a few decades back also hasn't likely changed: The US is the most "litiginous" (law-suit filing) society in the history of the world, tho' the EU seems to be emulating our ways. So from the legal profession's POV, their slogan about simplifying/clarifying IP law is something along the lines of, "If it ain't fixed, don't break it!"
And while it's slightly out of context, Shakespeare's admonition about the first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers (paraphrased, sorry), audiences still react viscerally to the line centuries later.....
They have made a teak table for Macbook users.
They have even triple checked that there is no wood or even pips in any Apple products.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hezetation
Apple can't patent the idea of an ultra thin or portable laptop, that class existed with netbooks long before the Air. Dell has had an ultraportable for quite a while and managed to make it look nothing like the Air but still look slick. These companies are making excuses for their horrible excuse for an R&D department, they're used to just copying others & getting away with it.
Apple doesn't have a patent on ultra thin laptops - but they should be protecting their design, which has zero in common with any netbook or portable on the market. The Sony Vaio X505 may have had a tapered design in 2004 AND Apple designers may have used it as inspiration at best, but the MacBook Air is being knocked off almost exactly by what Intel has been pushing into the pc market. And yes, I agree that all of the manufacturers that are copying Apple in so many things they do, should be ashamed of themselves (and punished for the blatant copying).
Some of the general comments I recall are...
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder
I quite specifically noted that it was the 'tapered shape' that the MacBook Air shares with the 2004 Sony Vaio X505, so your (strawman) attempt at making this about the location of the keyboard is completely moot.
Ehhh yeah, riiiight. HE's the one putting up the "strawman". <eyeroll>
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal
The fact it's a Digitimes article immediately puts to question the veracity of the story. However, considering what I see out there, Apple is completely in its right as far as I'm concerned to go after anyone that mimics its design. Go do your own freaking R&D and STOP using Apple as your R&D department!
Its worse than that.
Intel provided a reference platform for the Ultrabooks. They did the R&D to provide a competitive platform for manufacturers wanting to compete against Apple. UI considerations are also set for them by MS and Google - so we will ignore those (it's a whole 'nuther argument).
Apple did the R&D for their internals (and lets face it, they have packed more current tech into their "Ultrabook" style platform than the Intel one had) and their UI, and applied Apple's Industrial Design (ID) aesthetic to the platform.
What is being copied is the ID. Or more to the point the styling cues Apple designed as part of their ID.
The R&D was given to them - but the ID is being copied.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder
Oh Really... You mean like how Sony's Vaio X505 from 2004 had a tapered shape so striking that Apple appears to have found it suitable to 'use' on the MacBook Air?
Did you ever have problems with this when you were younger?