People are usually resistant to change. I like new things and change is usually good. In this case, I'm a little disappointed with the dock connector change, for reasons others have given. I bought a new car with the built-in dock connector. I like it, but if I get the iPhone 5, this becomes useless or I'll have to use an (yet to be manufactured) adapter (for a yet to be disclosed price). I dislike adapters, but will use them if forced to do so. I have an original iPhone cradle that I have made to fit my iPhone 4. I like this, too. But even an adapter will render this useless. It would be so nice if there were an industry standard connector for all peripherals that could stand the test of time. I guess 10 years is a pretty long time. USB is pretty close to this, but now Thunderbolt is trying to take the spot. Oh well, I guess we'll just all have to get used to change.
Having the same size connectors has been one of the major success factors for the iPhone. It enables a massive ecosystem of docks, speakers, cables etc which can be sold to a mass market. That Google did not copy this is likewise a major contribution to the failure of a big accessory market for phones running that OS.
A couple of points
- There will be an adaptor, no way Apple would do that to their customers who they are turning into Apple product centric Homes/Businesses. Probably at US$10.00 but soon copied down to sub US$5. You can buy an iDevice charging cable for this and the adaptor would use less material
- 9 years is an AMAZING amount of time, I struggle to think of anything apart from Audio jacks which have lasted as long in the Consumer Electronics/IT arena? I'm sure people will come up with examples but the point is there
I can't wait to get rid of my iPhone 4. It's also the last time I use a phone for two years. There is simply no benefit in me "saving" a few hundred dollars to use a slower device with buttons that have worn twice as much as I'd like to be.
People are usually resistant to change. I like new things and change is usually good. In this case, I'm a little disappointed with the dock connector change, for reasons others have given. I bought a new car with the built-in dock connector. I like it, but if I get the iPhone 5, this becomes useless or I'll have to use an (yet to be manufactured) adapter (for a yet to be disclosed price). I dislike adapters, but will use them if forced to do so. I have an original iPhone cradle that I have made to fit my iPhone 4. I like this, too. But even an adapter will render this useless. It would be so nice if there were an industry standard connector for all peripherals that could stand the test of time. I guess 10 years is a pretty long time. USB is pretty close to this, but now Thunderbolt is trying to take the spot. Oh well, I guess we'll just all have to get used to change.
1) I understand not likely the change for change sake but it's been nearly a decade with the same 30-pin connector is very generous for a tech company. There is progress in design and usability that is being held back by the large connector with pins for FireWire that haven't even be usable for charging for years.
2) A truly universal standard would be great but there are typically issues that make it hard for an industry to design such a thing. Just imagine if we only were allowed to have VGA on our notebooks because that was was decreed by the powers at be. Having certain companies take a risk to push an envelope helps drive the market which i think is better for us than possibly having to buy an adapter or new accessory every now and then.
3) I hope Apple has designed it to the new connector can fit well into the old, for most things with a stationary adapter.
4) If there is anything from Apple's patent portfolio that I think requires FRAND licensing I think it's their iDevice connector. Their iDevices are simply too powerful in the market to allow any other vendor, except maybe Samsung, to have a thriving accessories market. I could see Apple being required to license their dock connector to other vendors but before that I wonder why Google hasn't made their own dock connector that it could certify Android-based (or other devices) that use this connector. I think that would go a long way to giving users peace of mind and allow them to stick with Android across vendors.
5) I don't think Thunderbolt is trying to take USB's spot. It's more like FireWire, Ethernet, eSATA in its usage and I never considered any of them as trying to usurp USB.
I'm sure there will be a simple inline adapter available either from Apple immediately or from Griffin et al a few weeks later.
On one of my vehicles I'm still using that adapter. I guess I'm going to have to add another....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maecvs
I don't want the earphone connector on the bottom of my iPhone. The two times I placed my iPhone in my shirt pocket in an inverted position, it switched off. The last time, it went into some kind of diagnostic mode, it took me over a day to get it turned back on again!!!
- 9 years is an AMAZING amount of time, I struggle to think of anything apart from Audio jacks which have lasted as long in the Consumer Electronics/IT arena? I'm sure people will come up with examples but the point is there
Your point is made but in terms of general computing there are Ethernet, USB, VGA, and many more. The list gets really small when you only consider handheld devices. I think you nailed the only one with the headphone jack*. It even gets more impressive that Apple not only used the same dock connector design for their iPods, but for their iPhones and iPads, too.
My only question isn't why they are moving to a new connector after a decade but why they didn't do this in 2010 with the introduction of the iPad when most accessories wouldn't work anyway? To me that was a perfect time to introduce the new hotness.
* I do drop my phone an my in-ear phones make an unpleasant pop as they get pulled from my ears. On top of that I get my headphone cord caught on door handles and other things that ruined more than I care to admit. Since I use Shure my yearly headphone cost is embarrassingly high. But, I digress. I wonder if a Reverse MagSafe headphone jack would work. Of course magnets distort digital signals so what I am thinking of is not a magnet that holds the headphone jack in place but an electro magnet that will stay inactive until the system detects a sudden movement of the device (like it's falling) and/or force being applied to the jack connector at which point the magnet engages and pops the headphone connector free.
This is just USB, then firewire 400 (4 pin & 6 pin) firewire 800, USB 3, Thunderbolt, probably more i cant think of, i'm sleepy its 2:45AM here these are standards arent they?
This is just USB, then firewire 400 (4 pin & 6 pin) firewire 800, USB 3, Thunderbolt, probably more i cant think of, i'm sleepy its 2:45AM here these are standards arent they?
I've always loved (read: hated with a mind-numbingly huge amount of rage) how the "universal" serial bus has 5/6 plugs and ports and is anything but.
I'm really surprised there is so much confusion and speculation over this...
They're finally unveiling their new dock connector.
Its a new proprietary connector on the device side, and USB on the other side. It will support USB 3, obviously. Speed increases at least 3 to 5X. Size on the device goes down dramatically, huge for design purposes.
Having the same size connectors has been one of the major success factors for the iPhone. It enables a massive ecosystem of docks, speakers, cables etc which can be sold to a mass market. That Google did not copy this is likewise a major contribution to the failure of a big accessory market for phones running that OS.
A couple of points
- There will be an adaptor, no way Apple would do that to their customers who they are turning into Apple product centric Homes/Businesses. Probably at US$10.00 but soon copied down to sub US$5. You can buy an iDevice charging cable for this and the adaptor would use less material
- 9 years is an AMAZING amount of time, I struggle to think of anything apart from Audio jacks which have lasted as long in the Consumer Electronics/IT arena? I'm sure people will come up with examples but the point is there
I'm really surprised there is so much confusion and speculation over this...
They're finally unveiling their new dock connector.
Its a new proprietary connector on the device side, and USB on the other side. It will support USB 3, obviously. Speed increases at least 3 to 5X. Size on the device goes down dramatically, huge for design purposes.
Maybe, but remember that Flash NAND write speeds are very limited in these devices. I seem to recall AnandTech noting about 20MB/s which is well under the current USB2 2.0 speed.
And I still use RS232. It's even made worse because my Cisco equipment requires it for the console ports and I then need a Serial-to-USB cable to the Console cable (Serial-to-RJ45) and still the appropriate drivers on my Mac to make it work. I have yet to find a company that makes a single USB-to-RJ45 cable with the serial components built in. I'd pay good money for them if they existed.
The current form factor is good. If they really feel the need to increase the screen size, they can shrink some of the black space and barely change the case size. It doesn't need to be any thinner. Speaking of data speeds, Sprint just gave me a .11Mbps down and .28Mbps up check. Bleh. Yes its unlimited data but its so slow
This is why I think such a port change will have to offer up more than just physically smaller connectors. At the very least it will have to support USB 3 and hopefully Thunderbolt.
I guess if you have enough reports on a rumour people consider it to be legit i'll believe it when i see it
on the other hand Apple has used the same connector for almost ten years. Given that Apples goal in innovation leadership changing the dock connector would be a rational move if it offered up a new generation of performance.
as much as id like a new connector, there are so so so many third part devices (Car stereos, speakers, car chargers & lots more) that use the current style 30pin connector.
True, I have a few of my own. However given a speedy new interface I'd not bat an eye at a new connector. It is no different that back in the days when the world moved away from Z80 and 6502 processors to the 16/32 bit world. A lot of people cried in their soup back then too. In the end you either march forward with technology or get left behind.
Most windows users don't have USB 3 either and I expect that in the port as a minimal improvement. As long as Windows users can get connected nobody will care about how many can't take advantage of the faster ports. Those are legacy users and as such Apple can't focus on them. That being said I do see TB as a supplemental port to support faster transfers on machines with supporting hardware.
What people have to grasp here is what support of TB could do for "I" devices. Imagine plugging your iPhone into one of Apples TB monitors with a hard disk attached. Your iPhone could then drive an iPad sized or larger monitor and back itself up to the hard drive automagically. That same connection could allow for printing via a USB connected printer, and a keyboard attach.
Now this wouldn't happen all at once, but I can see TB support in the new dock connector opening up the platform capability wise over the coming years. TB could make iOS devices even better laptop replacements for many users. I'm so convinced of this that a TB port to me would be a sign of Apple becoming even more aggressive with post PC era devices. In fact post PC and TB are wedded together in my mind because fast connections make for more pleasurable use of the devices while extending capability considerably.
It likely will be for years to come too. It is all about simplicity and low cost, it is just too bad RS232 is so slow these days. It along with othere "RS" standards is used widely in industry and specifically automation.
Me being one, I paid $500 to have one installed prior to delivery on my new Jeep Grand Cherokee a few years back as Chrysler, the cheap bar stewards, didn't include one, and this a a Limited Edition!
So I for one trust there will be a simple inline adapter. It will no doubt cost an arm and a leg.
If you were willing to pay $500 to have a 30 pin connector put in your gas guzzler, it's unlikely that the adapter will cost "an arm and a leg" relative to your gigantic spending habits.
Comments
People are usually resistant to change. I like new things and change is usually good. In this case, I'm a little disappointed with the dock connector change, for reasons others have given. I bought a new car with the built-in dock connector. I like it, but if I get the iPhone 5, this becomes useless or I'll have to use an (yet to be manufactured) adapter (for a yet to be disclosed price). I dislike adapters, but will use them if forced to do so. I have an original iPhone cradle that I have made to fit my iPhone 4. I like this, too. But even an adapter will render this useless. It would be so nice if there were an industry standard connector for all peripherals that could stand the test of time. I guess 10 years is a pretty long time. USB is pretty close to this, but now Thunderbolt is trying to take the spot. Oh well, I guess we'll just all have to get used to change.
Having the same size connectors has been one of the major success factors for the iPhone. It enables a massive ecosystem of docks, speakers, cables etc which can be sold to a mass market. That Google did not copy this is likewise a major contribution to the failure of a big accessory market for phones running that OS.
A couple of points
- There will be an adaptor, no way Apple would do that to their customers who they are turning into Apple product centric Homes/Businesses. Probably at US$10.00 but soon copied down to sub US$5. You can buy an iDevice charging cable for this and the adaptor would use less material
- 9 years is an AMAZING amount of time, I struggle to think of anything apart from Audio jacks which have lasted as long in the Consumer Electronics/IT arena? I'm sure people will come up with examples but the point is there
1) I understand not likely the change for change sake but it's been nearly a decade with the same 30-pin connector is very generous for a tech company. There is progress in design and usability that is being held back by the large connector with pins for FireWire that haven't even be usable for charging for years.
2) A truly universal standard would be great but there are typically issues that make it hard for an industry to design such a thing. Just imagine if we only were allowed to have VGA on our notebooks because that was was decreed by the powers at be. Having certain companies take a risk to push an envelope helps drive the market which i think is better for us than possibly having to buy an adapter or new accessory every now and then.
3) I hope Apple has designed it to the new connector can fit well into the old, for most things with a stationary adapter.
4) If there is anything from Apple's patent portfolio that I think requires FRAND licensing I think it's their iDevice connector. Their iDevices are simply too powerful in the market to allow any other vendor, except maybe Samsung, to have a thriving accessories market. I could see Apple being required to license their dock connector to other vendors but before that I wonder why Google hasn't made their own dock connector that it could certify Android-based (or other devices) that use this connector. I think that would go a long way to giving users peace of mind and allow them to stick with Android across vendors.
5) I don't think Thunderbolt is trying to take USB's spot. It's more like FireWire, Ethernet, eSATA in its usage and I never considered any of them as trying to usurp USB.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zunx
Bring Thunderbolt. A port to rule them all!!!
Obligatory link: http://xkcd.com/927/
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
I'm sure there will be a simple inline adapter available either from Apple immediately or from Griffin et al a few weeks later.
On one of my vehicles I'm still using that adapter. I guess I'm going to have to add another....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maecvs
I don't want the earphone connector on the bottom of my iPhone. The two times I placed my iPhone in my shirt pocket in an inverted position, it switched off. The last time, it went into some kind of diagnostic mode, it took me over a day to get it turned back on again!!!
You're storing it wrong! ;-)
Your point is made but in terms of general computing there are Ethernet, USB, VGA, and many more. The list gets really small when you only consider handheld devices. I think you nailed the only one with the headphone jack*. It even gets more impressive that Apple not only used the same dock connector design for their iPods, but for their iPhones and iPads, too.
My only question isn't why they are moving to a new connector after a decade but why they didn't do this in 2010 with the introduction of the iPad when most accessories wouldn't work anyway? To me that was a perfect time to introduce the new hotness.
* I do drop my phone an my in-ear phones make an unpleasant pop as they get pulled from my ears. On top of that I get my headphone cord caught on door handles and other things that ruined more than I care to admit. Since I use Shure my yearly headphone cost is embarrassingly high. But, I digress. I wonder if a Reverse MagSafe headphone jack would work. Of course magnets distort digital signals so what I am thinking of is not a magnet that holds the headphone jack in place but an electro magnet that will stay inactive until the system detects a sudden movement of the device (like it's falling) and/or force being applied to the jack connector at which point the magnet engages and pops the headphone connector free.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Negafox
Obligatory link: http://xkcd.com/927/
I've never understood that, because it isn't true.
Receptacle
Plug
Yes
No
No
No
No
No
Yes
No
No
No
No
No
Yes
No
No
No
No
No
Yes
Yes
No
No
No
No
Yes
Just copied this from wikipedia
This is just USB, then firewire 400 (4 pin & 6 pin) firewire 800, USB 3, Thunderbolt, probably more i cant think of, i'm sleepy its 2:45AM here
That plug is way too shiny! I want matte¡
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zozman
This is just USB, then firewire 400 (4 pin & 6 pin) firewire 800, USB 3, Thunderbolt, probably more i cant think of, i'm sleepy its 2:45AM here
I've always loved (read: hated with a mind-numbingly huge amount of rage) how the "universal" serial bus has 5/6 plugs and ports and is anything but.
Screw printer manufacturers, first of all.
I'm really surprised there is so much confusion and speculation over this...
They're finally unveiling their new dock connector.
Its a new proprietary connector on the device side, and USB on the other side. It will support USB 3, obviously. Speed increases at least 3 to 5X. Size on the device goes down dramatically, huge for design purposes.
RS232 serial... Still in production!
Maybe, but remember that Flash NAND write speeds are very limited in these devices. I seem to recall AnandTech noting about 20MB/s which is well under the current USB2 2.0 speed.
And I still use RS232. It's even made worse because my Cisco equipment requires it for the console ports and I then need a Serial-to-USB cable to the Console cable (Serial-to-RJ45) and still the appropriate drivers on my Mac to make it work. I have yet to find a company that makes a single USB-to-RJ45 cable with the serial components built in. I'd pay good money for them if they existed.
on the other hand Apple has used the same connector for almost ten years. Given that Apples goal in innovation leadership changing the dock connector would be a rational move if it offered up a new generation of performance. True, I have a few of my own. However given a speedy new interface I'd not bat an eye at a new connector. It is no different that back in the days when the world moved away from Z80 and 6502 processors to the 16/32 bit world. A lot of people cried in their soup back then too. In the end you either march forward with technology or get left behind.
What people have to grasp here is what support of TB could do for "I" devices. Imagine plugging your iPhone into one of Apples TB monitors with a hard disk attached. Your iPhone could then drive an iPad sized or larger monitor and back itself up to the hard drive automagically. That same connection could allow for printing via a USB connected printer, and a keyboard attach.
Now this wouldn't happen all at once, but I can see TB support in the new dock connector opening up the platform capability wise over the coming years. TB could make iOS devices even better laptop replacements for many users. I'm so convinced of this that a TB port to me would be a sign of Apple becoming even more aggressive with post PC era devices. In fact post PC and TB are wedded together in my mind because fast connections make for more pleasurable use of the devices while extending capability considerably.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifij775
I don't care if it's smaller, as long as it's way faster. Data transfers are excruciatingly slow.
I'd rather they adopted something like MagSafe + Thunderbolt... or simply wireless everything, including power.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
I've never understood that, because it isn't true.
I don't know what we'd all do without you to pass your knee-jerk opinion on every single thing in the universe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips
Me being one, I paid $500 to have one installed prior to delivery on my new Jeep Grand Cherokee a few years back as Chrysler, the cheap bar stewards, didn't include one, and this a a Limited Edition!
So I for one trust there will be a simple inline adapter. It will no doubt cost an arm and a leg.
If you were willing to pay $500 to have a 30 pin connector put in your gas guzzler, it's unlikely that the adapter will cost "an arm and a leg" relative to your gigantic spending habits.