Have any one of you ever seen one of the pie charts that shows how much the Author gets from the sale of a book? It's always under a $1. The big publishers were looking for a way to save themselves from being forgotten about, because sites like Amazon make it to easy for an author to sell a book without a publisher, and Amazon only keeps something like 10%, giving a much greater sale.
And even if you choose not to agree with the above argument, common sense should tell you that a digital version of a book should always be MUCH cheaper than a paperback, not the same price or even more like it has been recently. Just think of all the costs that goes into printing a book, guessing how many copies you need, and distributing the books across the country. Meanwhile you can post a book on Amazon in under 5 minutes with a couple clicks.
And 3 of the 5 publishers have settled out of court.
This is a slam dunk for DoJ, and I am extremely proud that they are putting a stop to this price fixing.
Lots of flaws here in your argument. Amazon's current pricing is 30% cut and 70% to the publisher, then they add fees for a lot of other things and pretty soon your down to about 60% to amazon and 40% to the publisher. Then lets say that your book becomes popular and amazon wants to undercut everyone on the planet they then make your book free! It drums them up sales hits they compensate for it with the other parts of there business and best of all you as an indie publisher GO BROKE
selling your book for free! What a bargin! Meanwhile Amazon keeps it monopoly on the market at around 90% and strong arms publishers to sell there books on amazons store because there is really nowhere else that can compete that can sell them (the remaining 10%).
Contrast that with apples iBook store agency model you publish your book at the price you want (after all you wrote the book) Apple takes 30% and you get a legitimate 70% with no fees attached and your book will never be sold for any less than you want. The thing that has people mad is that the publishers themselves not apple decided that if the book is on sale at apples ibook store they wont sell it anywhere else for less. Apple had nothing to do with that decision. Amazon does not like this. They want to be able to undercut whomever they want, so they cry foul. Note that amazon can still sell the books that are for sale on the apple store but at the same price. The people that own the books have a right to sell there books for the price they want.
By the way apple uses the agency model to sell music, movies, tv shows, and audio books, it is a fair way to sell things.
The DOJ has there head so far up there ass on this one they will be lucky if they win. Even Senator Chuck Shumer wrote a letter to the doj asking them to drop this ridiculous law suit.
This is a slam dunk for DoJ, and I am extremely proud that they are putting a stop to this price fixing.
Except that isn't what happened. At all.
Except, it is what happened, entirely, unless you are just so committed to loving EVERYTHING Apple does...which, you decidedly are, post after post, facts supporting you, which they often do, or not, as in this case.
Lots of flaws here in your argument. Amazon's current pricing is 30% cut and 70% to the publisher, then they add fees for a lot of other things and pretty soon your down to about 60% to amazon and 40% to the publisher. Then lets say that your book becomes popular and amazon wants to undercut everyone on the planet they then make your book free! It drums them up sales hits they compensate for it with the other parts of there business and best of all you as an indie publisher GO BROKE
selling your book for free! What a bargin! Meanwhile Amazon keeps it monopoly on the market at around 90% and strong arms publishers to sell there books on amazons store because there is really nowhere else that can compete that can sell them (the remaining 10%).
Contrast that with apples iBook store agency model you publish your book at the price you want (after all you wrote the book) Apple takes 30% and you get a legitimate 70% with no fees attached and your book will never be sold for any less than you want. The thing that has people mad is that the publishers themselves not apple decided that if the book is on sale at apples ibook store they wont sell it anywhere else for less. Apple had nothing to do with that decision. Amazon does not like this. They want to be able to undercut whomever they want, so they cry foul. Note that amazon can still sell the books that are for sale on the apple store but at the same price. The people that own the books have a right to sell there books for the price they want.
By the way apple uses the agency model to sell music, movies, tv shows, and audio books, it is a fair way to sell things.
The DOJ has there head so far up there ass on this one they will be lucky if they win. Even Senator Chuck Shumer wrote a letter to the doj asking them to drop this ridiculous law suit.
The only flaw to your ignorant filled statement is that Amazon pays for the books up front. If they choose to sell them for free, what does an indie author care, they are still paid. Amazon takes the loss. Keep making crap up, it is entertaining to read. The only party harmed here is the ancient business model the publishers are trying to hold on to. They refuse to except that they are no longer needed. Amazon will do all the work for the authors, promotion, distribution ect.... And instead of a measly 1% they used to get, now they get 30% and that scares the publishers.
Except, it is what happened, entirely, unless you are just so committed to loving EVERYTHING Apple does...which, you decidedly are, post after post, facts supporting you, which they often do, or not, as in this case.
Okay. That's obviously true. It certainly doesn't ignore the truth or the rest of the thread.
This is the DoJ being stubborn and refusing to admit they fucked up. Now, to back down would be a huge ego blow to them, so they won't, regardless of the outcome and how much damage they do to the publishing industry. It's not about right or wrong, justice, or even the law at this point, it's about not admitting they were wrong.
Except, it is what happened, entirely, unless you are just so committed to loving EVERYTHING Apple does...which, you decidedly are, post after post, facts supporting you, which they often do, or not, as in this case.
Apple is arrogant and most Apple people have no objectivity when it comes to criticism of Apple..some of them actually believe that Apple products are high quality..yeah right
Utterly off topic, but when the hell is AppleInsider going to catch on that, in the past couple of days, Proview's own legal team is now suing Proview? For non-payment of fees, no less.
And you guys thought that the DoJ were 'naughty'... (>_<)
Funny but where are all the people arguing about what a fine, upstanding company Proview was and how Apple was simply ripping them off?
Have any one of you ever seen one of the pie charts that shows how much the Author gets from the sale of a book? It's always under a $1. The big publishers were looking for a way to save themselves from being forgotten about, because sites like Amazon make it to easy for an author to sell a book without a publisher, and Amazon only keeps something like 10%, giving a much greater sale.
Amazon always took a much larger percentage - even when it is an individual author.
An author selling their book via Apple gets 70% and Apple handles all the expenses.
And even if you choose not to agree with the above argument, common sense should tell you that a digital version of a book should always be MUCH cheaper than a paperback, not the same price or even more like it has been recently. Just think of all the costs that goes into printing a book, guessing how many copies you need, and distributing the books across the country. Meanwhile you can post a book on Amazon in under 5 minutes with a couple clicks.
What's that got to do with anything? Maybe you should be complaining about Amazon. They had a near monopoly in the eBook market and the price of eBooks was close to the price of paperback books.
[SIZE=24px]And 3 of the 5 publishers have settled out of court.[/SIZE]
This is a slam dunk for DoJ, and I am extremely proud that they are putting a stop to this price fixing.
The fact that some publishers settled doesn't change anything. Maybe the publishers felt that settling was cheaper than fighting. Maybe the DOJ gave them a great deal to settle. Or maybe the publishers colluded but Apple wasn't involved. Basically, you don't have any evidence at all that Apple is guilty.
Apple is arrogant and most Apple people have no objectivity when it comes to criticism of Apple<span style="font-size:12px;line-height:14px;">..some of them actually believe that Apple products are high quality..yeah right</span>
Why don't you try to explain why Apple products are at or near the top of every product quality survey? Or why Apple's products have a longer longevity than competitors' products? Or why Apple products have a greater resale value than their competitors' products?
Apple is arrogant and most Apple people have no objectivity when it comes to criticism of Apple..some of them actually believe that Apple products are high quality..yeah right
Yeah, and whom did Amazon pay off? Campaign contributions? Back-room negotiations? Seems awful odd that the DoJ would be so adamant about this considering the implications. Then again, I would expect nothing less from this current Administration. When is Eric Holder going to be disbarred?
Actually, it is surprising coming from the current administration. Despite claims to the contrary, Obama is quite conservative. He is nothing like Clinton who went after big tobacco and Microsoft. Further, Obama was friends with Jobs.
So it is in that context that it is odd the DOJ has targeted Apple. It has gambled that consumers will be sympathetic to the increased price argument alluding to collusion. What the DOJ's complaint doesn't address, is that e-Books were under priced because of Amazon using its monopoly power in the traditional book market to control e-book prices. That is anti-competitive behavior.
The government has a better case against the publishers then Apple because it only makes sense Apple would try to obtain the same agreement from all the publishers just like it has with music, and Apple doesn't compete against the publishers so it can't be guilty of collusion with a competitor. The publishers, however, are competitors with one another.
The only flaw to your ignorant filled statement is that Amazon pays for the books up front. If they choose to sell them for free, what does an indie author care, they are still paid. Amazon takes the loss. Keep making crap up, it is entertaining to read. The only party harmed here is the ancient business model the publishers are trying to hold on to. They refuse to except that they are no longer needed. Amazon will do all the work for the authors, promotion, distribution ect.... And instead of a measly 1% they used to get, now they get 30% and that scares the publishers.
If I don't have an account with Amazon and don't want one because I don't like or trust them, should the author/publisher lose my business because the only game in town is Amazon. By selling my book below cost, other ebook stores will not offer my book because they can't stay in business that way. So by killing the market and leaving only Amazon, many opportunities to serve new customers will be lost.
If I don't have an account with Amazon and don't want one because I don't like or trust them, should the author/publisher lose my business because the only game in town is Amazon. By selling my book below cost, other ebook stores will not offer my book because they can't stay in business that way. So by killing the market and leaving only Amazon, many opportunities to serve new customers will be lost.
Do you own a Mac or an iPod? Aren't those items priced considerably higher than similar competing items? So why is Apple all of a sudden worried about the price of a competitor? Is it because they're late to the game? Or because this is a rare instance that they cannot offer a better product?
If I don't have an account with Amazon and don't want one because I don't like or trust them, should the author/publisher lose my business because the only game in town is Amazon. By selling my book below cost, other ebook stores will not offer my book because they can't stay in business that way. So by killing the market and leaving only Amazon, many opportunities to serve new customers will be lost.
Do you own a Mac or an iPod? Aren't those items priced considerably higher than similar competing items? So why is Apple all of a sudden worried about the price of a competitor? Is it because they're late to the game? Or because this is a rare instance that they cannot offer a better product?
I don't think that's a fair analogy, since in this case they are not selling their own products - they are selling content that is also available from other companies. It's not a better or worse product and it's not a similar product - it's the same product.
Apple is arrogant and most Apple people have no objectivity when it comes to criticism of Apple..some of them actually believe that Apple products are high quality..yeah right
If arrogance = iPads and Retina Macs, then God Bless their "arrogance."
Objectivity? Most criticisms of Apple fall apart at the cash register. Wallet ------> Open.
If I don't have an account with Amazon and don't want one because I don't like or trust them, should the author/publisher lose my business because the only game in town is Amazon. By selling my book below cost, other ebook stores will not offer my book because they can't stay in business that way. So by killing the market and leaving only Amazon, many opportunities to serve new customers will be lost.
IBooks will still be here, you just will pay more because Apple will pass any and all extra costs on to the consumer. I could care less if all sellers disappear, if it means lower cost to me so be it. Amazon was the only game In town and never raised the prices so I am comfortable that they won't again.
So the DOJ decided to cherry-pick less than 10% of the public comments which suited their argument and dismissed the rest as self-serving.
Does anybody else sense a note of irony here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
In a response to 868 public comments regarding its Apple e-book price fixing case, the U.S. Department of Justice on Monday released a statement saying it will not modify the terms of a proposed settlement and alleges that Amazon's dominant market position has been overstated.
The DoJ's statement dismisses the 789 comments made by various companies and industry players opposing the body's proposed final judgment, writing them off as "self-serving" and instead lauds certain examples individually picked from 70 supportive letters, reports Fortune.
Have any one of you ever seen one of the pie charts that shows how much the Author gets from the sale of a book? It's always under a $1. The big publishers were looking for a way to save themselves from being forgotten about, because sites like Amazon make it to easy for an author to sell a book without a publisher, and Amazon only keeps something like 10%, giving a much greater sale.
And even if you choose not to agree with the above argument, common sense should tell you that a digital version of a book should always be MUCH cheaper than a paperback, not the same price or even more like it has been recently. Just think of all the costs that goes into printing a book, guessing how many copies you need, and distributing the books across the country. Meanwhile you can post a book on Amazon in under 5 minutes with a couple clicks.
[SIZE=24px]And 3 of the 5 publishers have settled out of court.[/SIZE]
This is a slam dunk for DoJ, and I am extremely proud that they are putting a stop to this price fixing.
So you have been that person next to the DOJ lawyers in all those economics classes... Whoops you didn't take those classes and neither did they.....
Sorry but you have no idea what you are talking about, especially in the big picture.
Ive come to the conclusion that the DOJ is run by bozo the clown and his clown car freinds.
That's F'n hilarious! I had no idea what you were talking about until I googled it. I can't believe that was really a show! Although I never catch much TV because everything is horrible. Then again, some people are afraid of clowns... So maybe some thought that was horrible.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by ApolloFortyNine
Have any one of you ever seen one of the pie charts that shows how much the Author gets from the sale of a book? It's always under a $1. The big publishers were looking for a way to save themselves from being forgotten about, because sites like Amazon make it to easy for an author to sell a book without a publisher, and Amazon only keeps something like 10%, giving a much greater sale.
And even if you choose not to agree with the above argument, common sense should tell you that a digital version of a book should always be MUCH cheaper than a paperback, not the same price or even more like it has been recently. Just think of all the costs that goes into printing a book, guessing how many copies you need, and distributing the books across the country. Meanwhile you can post a book on Amazon in under 5 minutes with a couple clicks.
And 3 of the 5 publishers have settled out of court.
This is a slam dunk for DoJ, and I am extremely proud that they are putting a stop to this price fixing.
Lots of flaws here in your argument. Amazon's current pricing is 30% cut and 70% to the publisher, then they add fees for a lot of other things and pretty soon your down to about 60% to amazon and 40% to the publisher. Then lets say that your book becomes popular and amazon wants to undercut everyone on the planet they then make your book free! It drums them up sales hits they compensate for it with the other parts of there business and best of all you as an indie publisher GO BROKE
selling your book for free! What a bargin! Meanwhile Amazon keeps it monopoly on the market at around 90% and strong arms publishers to sell there books on amazons store because there is really nowhere else that can compete that can sell them (the remaining 10%).
Contrast that with apples iBook store agency model you publish your book at the price you want (after all you wrote the book) Apple takes 30% and you get a legitimate 70% with no fees attached and your book will never be sold for any less than you want. The thing that has people mad is that the publishers themselves not apple decided that if the book is on sale at apples ibook store they wont sell it anywhere else for less. Apple had nothing to do with that decision. Amazon does not like this. They want to be able to undercut whomever they want, so they cry foul. Note that amazon can still sell the books that are for sale on the apple store but at the same price. The people that own the books have a right to sell there books for the price they want.
By the way apple uses the agency model to sell music, movies, tv shows, and audio books, it is a fair way to sell things.
The DOJ has there head so far up there ass on this one they will be lucky if they win. Even Senator Chuck Shumer wrote a letter to the doj asking them to drop this ridiculous law suit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Quote:
Originally Posted by ApolloFortyNine
This is a slam dunk for DoJ, and I am extremely proud that they are putting a stop to this price fixing.
Except that isn't what happened. At all.
Except, it is what happened, entirely, unless you are just so committed to loving EVERYTHING Apple does...which, you decidedly are, post after post, facts supporting you, which they often do, or not, as in this case.
The only flaw to your ignorant filled statement is that Amazon pays for the books up front. If they choose to sell them for free, what does an indie author care, they are still paid. Amazon takes the loss. Keep making crap up, it is entertaining to read. The only party harmed here is the ancient business model the publishers are trying to hold on to. They refuse to except that they are no longer needed. Amazon will do all the work for the authors, promotion, distribution ect.... And instead of a measly 1% they used to get, now they get 30% and that scares the publishers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boredumb
Except, it is what happened, entirely, unless you are just so committed to loving EVERYTHING Apple does...which, you decidedly are, post after post, facts supporting you, which they often do, or not, as in this case.
Okay. That's obviously true. It certainly doesn't ignore the truth or the rest of the thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boredumb
Except, it is what happened, entirely, unless you are just so committed to loving EVERYTHING Apple does...which, you decidedly are, post after post, facts supporting you, which they often do, or not, as in this case.
Apple is arrogant and most Apple people have no objectivity when it comes to criticism of Apple..some of them actually believe that Apple products are high quality..yeah right
Funny but where are all the people arguing about what a fine, upstanding company Proview was and how Apple was simply ripping them off?
Amazon always took a much larger percentage - even when it is an individual author.
An author selling their book via Apple gets 70% and Apple handles all the expenses.
What's that got to do with anything? Maybe you should be complaining about Amazon. They had a near monopoly in the eBook market and the price of eBooks was close to the price of paperback books.
The fact that some publishers settled doesn't change anything. Maybe the publishers felt that settling was cheaper than fighting. Maybe the DOJ gave them a great deal to settle. Or maybe the publishers colluded but Apple wasn't involved. Basically, you don't have any evidence at all that Apple is guilty.
Why don't you try to explain why Apple products are at or near the top of every product quality survey? Or why Apple's products have a longer longevity than competitors' products? Or why Apple products have a greater resale value than their competitors' products?
Quote:
Originally Posted by daylove22
Apple is arrogant and most Apple people have no objectivity when it comes to criticism of Apple..some of them actually believe that Apple products are high quality..yeah right
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kavok
Yeah, and whom did Amazon pay off? Campaign contributions? Back-room negotiations? Seems awful odd that the DoJ would be so adamant about this considering the implications. Then again, I would expect nothing less from this current Administration. When is Eric Holder going to be disbarred?
Actually, it is surprising coming from the current administration. Despite claims to the contrary, Obama is quite conservative. He is nothing like Clinton who went after big tobacco and Microsoft. Further, Obama was friends with Jobs.
So it is in that context that it is odd the DOJ has targeted Apple. It has gambled that consumers will be sympathetic to the increased price argument alluding to collusion. What the DOJ's complaint doesn't address, is that e-Books were under priced because of Amazon using its monopoly power in the traditional book market to control e-book prices. That is anti-competitive behavior.
The government has a better case against the publishers then Apple because it only makes sense Apple would try to obtain the same agreement from all the publishers just like it has with music, and Apple doesn't compete against the publishers so it can't be guilty of collusion with a competitor. The publishers, however, are competitors with one another.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellacool
The only flaw to your ignorant filled statement is that Amazon pays for the books up front. If they choose to sell them for free, what does an indie author care, they are still paid. Amazon takes the loss. Keep making crap up, it is entertaining to read. The only party harmed here is the ancient business model the publishers are trying to hold on to. They refuse to except that they are no longer needed. Amazon will do all the work for the authors, promotion, distribution ect.... And instead of a measly 1% they used to get, now they get 30% and that scares the publishers.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }If I don't have an account with Amazon and don't want one because I don't like or trust them, should the author/publisher lose my business because the only game in town is Amazon. By selling my book below cost, other ebook stores will not offer my book because they can't stay in business that way. So by killing the market and leaving only Amazon, many opportunities to serve new customers will be lost.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }
Do you own a Mac or an iPod? Aren't those items priced considerably higher than similar competing items? So why is Apple all of a sudden worried about the price of a competitor? Is it because they're late to the game? Or because this is a rare instance that they cannot offer a better product?
I don't think that's a fair analogy, since in this case they are not selling their own products - they are selling content that is also available from other companies. It's not a better or worse product and it's not a similar product - it's the same product.
Quote:
Originally Posted by daylove22
Apple is arrogant and most Apple people have no objectivity when it comes to criticism of Apple..some of them actually believe that Apple products are high quality..yeah right
If arrogance = iPads and Retina Macs, then God Bless their "arrogance."
Objectivity? Most criticisms of Apple fall apart at the cash register. Wallet ------> Open.
(Yeah, you too, probably.)
See you in line.
IBooks will still be here, you just will pay more because Apple will pass any and all extra costs on to the consumer. I could care less if all sellers disappear, if it means lower cost to me so be it. Amazon was the only game In town and never raised the prices so I am comfortable that they won't again.
So the DOJ decided to cherry-pick less than 10% of the public comments which suited their argument and dismissed the rest as self-serving.
Does anybody else sense a note of irony here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
In a response to 868 public comments regarding its Apple e-book price fixing case, the U.S. Department of Justice on Monday released a statement saying it will not modify the terms of a proposed settlement and alleges that Amazon's dominant market position has been overstated.
The DoJ's statement dismisses the 789 comments made by various companies and industry players opposing the body's proposed final judgment, writing them off as "self-serving" and instead lauds certain examples individually picked from 70 supportive letters, reports Fortune.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }
To paraphrase the typical "If you don't like it, don't buy it" response, if you don't like the U.S. Government, don't live in the U.S.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar
To paraphrase the typical "If you don't like it, don't buy it" response, if you don't like the U.S. Government, don't live in the U.S.
2nd that!!
So you have been that person next to the DOJ lawyers in all those economics classes... Whoops you didn't take those classes and neither did they.....
Sorry but you have no idea what you are talking about, especially in the big picture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar
To paraphrase the typical "If you don't like it, don't buy it" response, if you don't like the U.S. Government, don't live in the U.S.
"Democracy is the worst form of government except for all those others that have been tried." —Winston Churchill
That's F'n hilarious! I had no idea what you were talking about until I googled it. I can't believe that was really a show! Although I never catch much TV because everything is horrible. Then again, some people are afraid of clowns... So maybe some thought that was horrible.
I learn so much from you folks! Thanks!