You can just press the Windows key to access the Metro "Start" screen, but the Windows key was probably the least used button on the keyboard. So it works out to forcing the user base to use a button they've decided not to use.
In a way, I think Apple is doing something similar (not the same) with Mail in iOS 6. I like that to retrieve new Mail they now have the pull to refresh (or more accurately release to refresh) feature but they shouldn't have removed the button to refresh. It's not on the same level as MS is doing with WIn8 but it's in the same category. I think they should have both and then remove the button in iOS 7.
I think what these "I hope Microsoft succeeds because Apple needs competition" posters are saying is that without Microsoft and their 20 years of failure to make the tablet PC mainstream, Apple would never have invented multitouch and the touch-centric OS, thus reinventing the tablet as something easy and useful for consumers, early critics who panned the iPad as a giant iPod Touch be damned. Clearly, Microsoft deserves all the credit for iPad's success. Apple would never have created iPad without strong "competition" from Microsoft's tablet PC.
<p style="font-size:12px;line-height:normal;font-family:Helvetica;">1. Windows 8 is released for sale and the tech pundits will hail Microsoft for evolving the OS, deep mobile integration, etc. </p>
<p style="font-size:12px;line-height:normal;font-family:Helvetica;">2. Consumers and Enterprise won't listen to the tech pundits, and will scrupulously avoid the Win 8 Metro UI mess.</p>
<p style="font-size:12px;line-height:normal;font-family:Helvetica;">3. Realizing that the shilling for Microsoft isn't paying off and to save face, the tech pundits will do an 180 and lambast Ballmer for laying a Windows Vista egg.</p>
Newell also revealed he isn't sold on the long-term viability of touchscreen-driven platforms like Apple's iPhone and iPad. He called touchscreen interfaces a "short-term" trend that will be "stable for 10 years."
In what he called a future "post-touch" era, Newell said he believes users will wear bands on their wrists that will enable complex gesture-based controls on future devices.
"You'll be doing something with your hands, which are really expressive," Newell said.
Really? Bands? I hope he is talking exclusively about gaming though I'd hate to be on the subway next to some kid playing on his "post-touch" device. Specially if it is 3d and sensurround, which all game playing device no doubt will be by then.
Incorrect. The Windows 8 desktop has added many incremental improvements including improved Windows Explorer, multi-monitor improvements, and the loss of Aero and the new flat desktop style.
BS. It's so identical that no user will be able to find a difference and that's all that really matters.
Did anyone actually go read the article? I don't understand this article being posted on this blog. It is spun to be good news for Apple, but the article considers both Microsoft and Apple "closed" (not my option but clearly the author's and Gabe Newell's opinion).
As far as this article is concerned, Apple is doing the same thing as Microsoft and moving towards a closed store/platform. So it stands to reason that if Gabe says Microsoft is a 'catastrophe' then OSX is on the same road. Before you string me up, keep reading.
Gabe has a clear agenda and this is complete FUD. Microsoft is only making Windows RT (the ARM version of Windows 8 that has never existed before) a closed platform. The Windows 8 that is the upgrade to Windows 7 (both 32-bit and 64-bit versions) will still be able to install software the same way it always has. There MAY be an option to only allow software to be installed from the Microsoft Store, but I have not heard that and if there is, there is no doubt it can be turned off. This is not me being pro-Micrsoft because I think Windows 8 IS a catastrophe for plenty of reasons, but that is due to real reasons and real problems...not made up ones.
As I was saying, Gabe Newell has an obvious agenda and is spreading FUD to try and have things his way. Obviously he is going to be upset that Apple and Microsoft are setting up app stores because Valve now makes (most likely the majority of its) money from the Steam Store. Official stores that sell games will likely hurt that business. Gabe is trying to convince Microsoft to open up Windows RT by scaring everyone senseless. No one even knows if Windows RT will be a success or not at this point. It could end up being completely irrelevant.
The crux of the article is that they are porting Steam and Valve games to Linux so they have a open platform to work on in light of the direction both Apple and Microsoft are heading. So WHY this article showed up on this blog and was spun as positive news is BEYOND me. I don't see how the article linked to cast either Microsoft or Apple in a favorable light.
Everything that Microsoft has changed in Windows 8 is wrong.
Someone correct me. I don't want to be right about that, but I can't seem to remember anything I preferred over earlier versions.
Here's an interesting quote:
Quote:
“I see Microsoft as technology’s answer to Sears,” said Kurt Massey, a former senior marketing manager. “In the 40s, 50s, and 60s, Sears had it nailed. It was top-notch, but now it’s just a barren wasteland. And that’s Microsoft. The company just isn’t cool anymore.”
It gets slightly more complicated with Windows 8 RT, which is built specifically for tablets running ARM architecture (to my knowledge, mobile and power optimized.) Windows and the core MS stuff will run on this, but I'm not sure other applications from 3rd party developers will unless they are specifically optimized. (Again, could be wrong, but it's like how a Windows program won't run on OSX or Linux). The thing is, Windows RT will look identical to Windows, it's called Windows, people will think it's Windows, but it wont be able to run many traditional Windows applications. These tablets may have better battery life and built on hardware the mobile space needs, they may be a good idea in theory to develop a mobile app space - but it seems like running 'Windows' on it will be a confusing step back or not a bold enough step forward.
The situation is even worse than you describe. Windows RT will not "run windows and the core MS stuff." Windows RT will only run a "mock" desktop, and only the MS Office apps (ported to ARM versions), which will come pre-installed and you won't be able to mess with them. No third party software will be allowed at all on the desktop (Metro apps will be allowed if they are installed from MS's store only).
As far as this article is concerned, Apple is doing the same thing as Microsoft and moving towards a closed store/platform.
Except in Apple's case, consumers just can't get enough of it. Apple has been "closed platform" for years now.
Apple does it right.
MS lays eggs in trying to be what they are not, what they are not set up for, and what their attitude about how people should interact with tech simply does not support.
There is no undergirding philosophy or culture to support the creation and success of an Apple-like business model in Redmond. You'd have to completely rewrite the MS orientation book and do a complete overhaul of management, for starters. Apple has around 30 years of experience in perfecting their craft. MS would like to achieve the same overnight with a clown running the show, with his circus side-show sidekick Steven Sinofsky and his team of yes-men. Microsoft DOES NOT THINK, they simply REACT. There is nothing really substantial behind their push toward a vertical business-model. Or some hybrid, mish-mash of half-baked ideas that they're trying to pass off as one.
BS. It's so identical that no user will be able to find a difference and that's all that really matters.
I stand by my statement. It's not exactly the same as you noted. Granted, the Windows 8 desktop is the perfection(my opinion, you're welcome to disagree) of the Windows 7 desktop but it's definitely has it's differences. If you put the final non-Aero version of the desktop in front of a user, they would absolutely be able to tell it wasn't Windows 7.
Functionally, they are close to being the same with Windows 8 making the needed additions and improvements to the desktop environment.
Apple will already double their Mac market share if Metro is so bad.
Meanwhile, Apple's tablet market share will not suffer at all when the Surface drops. Not only is Metro lame, but the cheapest Surface is said to be about $1000.
I think what is going on at Microsoft is a lack of vision at the top. There is not anyone I am aware of there who has a clear, innovative vision of what they should be doing. They obviously CAN do a lot, but their products all have that designed by committee feel to them. And Steve Ballmer? That guy doesn't even have the vision to select a good pair of pants. They need a real leader there.
He may have been a great hardware engineer and a charming geek, and we love him for it, but Steve Wozniak has zero taste. Why do you think that Steve Jobs never brought him back to Apple?
Invoking the opinions of "the other Steve" carries absolutely no weight with me.
Except in Apple's case, consumers just can't get enough of it. Apple has been "closed platform" for years now.
Apple does it right.
MS lays eggs in trying to be what they are not, what they are not set up for, and what their attitude about how people should interact with tech simply does not support.
I was pointing out what the article said. I was not stating my opinion. Just bought a Macbook in March and after using Windows for years and couldn't be happier. My complaint isn't with Apple but with AppleInsider posting a link to this article that I don't believe has anything to do with Apple. At best I believe the person who wrote the original article has a pro-Linux agenda and AppleInsider tried to spin it as pro-Apple.
I don't expect "un-biased" coverage from an Apple blog. I just don't see how they drew a conclusion that Valve will be diverting more attention to Mac when Gabe Newell is criticizing closed platforms and discussing Valve's desire to give Linux more attention. Personally, I believe Gabe has no intention to give up on Intel-based Windows or OSX platforms, but he is spreading FUD to try and have Microsoft open Windows RT to 3rd party app stores.
But I still don't see how ANYONE could logically come to the conclusion that the original article was intended to be good news for the Mac version of Steam. That concept does not appear in the original article and is COMPLETELY fabricated by this blog.
(now I am just waiting to be reported and have my post removed)
GIant-ass tiles, low information density Metro crap, doesn't look anything like previous Windows... what could go wrong?!
and...
Metro UI = low information density garbage.
Sigh, why do I bother correcting folks? Here goes...
If you'll notice the screen, 6 of those tiles are showing at a glance information. Interesting, not a grid of static icons, but a grid of tiles showing up-to-date information on each app. That's not low information density at all. The iPad home screen is a better example of low information density.
Comments
In a way, I think Apple is doing something similar (not the same) with Mail in iOS 6. I like that to retrieve new Mail they now have the pull to refresh (or more accurately release to refresh) feature but they shouldn't have removed the button to refresh. It's not on the same level as MS is doing with WIn8 but it's in the same category. I think they should have both and then remove the button in iOS 7.
I think what these "I hope Microsoft succeeds because Apple needs competition" posters are saying is that without Microsoft and their 20 years of failure to make the tablet PC mainstream, Apple would never have invented multitouch and the touch-centric OS, thus reinventing the tablet as something easy and useful for consumers, early critics who panned the iPad as a giant iPod Touch be damned. Clearly, Microsoft deserves all the credit for iPad's success. Apple would never have created iPad without strong "competition" from Microsoft's tablet PC.
Well said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
Newell also revealed he isn't sold on the long-term viability of touchscreen-driven platforms like Apple's iPhone and iPad. He called touchscreen interfaces a "short-term" trend that will be "stable for 10 years."
In what he called a future "post-touch" era, Newell said he believes users will wear bands on their wrists that will enable complex gesture-based controls on future devices.
"You'll be doing something with your hands, which are really expressive," Newell said.
Really? Bands? I hope he is talking exclusively about gaming though I'd hate to be on the subway next to some kid playing on his "post-touch" device. Specially if it is 3d and sensurround, which all game playing device no doubt will be by then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by runner7775
Incorrect. The Windows 8 desktop has added many incremental improvements including improved Windows Explorer, multi-monitor improvements, and the loss of Aero and the new flat desktop style.
BS. It's so identical that no user will be able to find a difference and that's all that really matters.
Did anyone actually go read the article? I don't understand this article being posted on this blog. It is spun to be good news for Apple, but the article considers both Microsoft and Apple "closed" (not my option but clearly the author's and Gabe Newell's opinion).
As far as this article is concerned, Apple is doing the same thing as Microsoft and moving towards a closed store/platform. So it stands to reason that if Gabe says Microsoft is a 'catastrophe' then OSX is on the same road. Before you string me up, keep reading.
Gabe has a clear agenda and this is complete FUD. Microsoft is only making Windows RT (the ARM version of Windows 8 that has never existed before) a closed platform. The Windows 8 that is the upgrade to Windows 7 (both 32-bit and 64-bit versions) will still be able to install software the same way it always has. There MAY be an option to only allow software to be installed from the Microsoft Store, but I have not heard that and if there is, there is no doubt it can be turned off. This is not me being pro-Micrsoft because I think Windows 8 IS a catastrophe for plenty of reasons, but that is due to real reasons and real problems...not made up ones.
As I was saying, Gabe Newell has an obvious agenda and is spreading FUD to try and have things his way. Obviously he is going to be upset that Apple and Microsoft are setting up app stores because Valve now makes (most likely the majority of its) money from the Steam Store. Official stores that sell games will likely hurt that business. Gabe is trying to convince Microsoft to open up Windows RT by scaring everyone senseless. No one even knows if Windows RT will be a success or not at this point. It could end up being completely irrelevant.
The crux of the article is that they are porting Steam and Valve games to Linux so they have a open platform to work on in light of the direction both Apple and Microsoft are heading. So WHY this article showed up on this blog and was spun as positive news is BEYOND me. I don't see how the article linked to cast either Microsoft or Apple in a favorable light.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Everything that Microsoft has changed in Windows 8 is wrong.
Someone correct me. I don't want to be right about that, but I can't seem to remember anything I preferred over earlier versions.
Here's an interesting quote:
Quote:
“I see Microsoft as technology’s answer to Sears,” said Kurt Massey, a former senior marketing manager. “In the 40s, 50s, and 60s, Sears had it nailed. It was top-notch, but now it’s just a barren wasteland. And that’s Microsoft. The company just isn’t cool anymore.”
http://www.vanityfair.com/business/2012/08/microsoft-lost-mojo-steve-ballmer
Quote:
Originally Posted by september11th
...
It gets slightly more complicated with Windows 8 RT, which is built specifically for tablets running ARM architecture (to my knowledge, mobile and power optimized.) Windows and the core MS stuff will run on this, but I'm not sure other applications from 3rd party developers will unless they are specifically optimized. (Again, could be wrong, but it's like how a Windows program won't run on OSX or Linux). The thing is, Windows RT will look identical to Windows, it's called Windows, people will think it's Windows, but it wont be able to run many traditional Windows applications. These tablets may have better battery life and built on hardware the mobile space needs, they may be a good idea in theory to develop a mobile app space - but it seems like running 'Windows' on it will be a confusing step back or not a bold enough step forward.
The situation is even worse than you describe. Windows RT will not "run windows and the core MS stuff." Windows RT will only run a "mock" desktop, and only the MS Office apps (ported to ARM versions), which will come pre-installed and you won't be able to mess with them. No third party software will be allowed at all on the desktop (Metro apps will be allowed if they are installed from MS's store only).
Quote:
Originally Posted by rednival
As far as this article is concerned, Apple is doing the same thing as Microsoft and moving towards a closed store/platform.
Except in Apple's case, consumers just can't get enough of it. Apple has been "closed platform" for years now.
Apple does it right.
MS lays eggs in trying to be what they are not, what they are not set up for, and what their attitude about how people should interact with tech simply does not support.
There is no undergirding philosophy or culture to support the creation and success of an Apple-like business model in Redmond. You'd have to completely rewrite the MS orientation book and do a complete overhaul of management, for starters. Apple has around 30 years of experience in perfecting their craft. MS would like to achieve the same overnight with a clown running the show, with his circus side-show sidekick Steven Sinofsky and his team of yes-men. Microsoft DOES NOT THINK, they simply REACT. There is nothing really substantial behind their push toward a vertical business-model. Or some hybrid, mish-mash of half-baked ideas that they're trying to pass off as one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
BS. It's so identical that no user will be able to find a difference and that's all that really matters.
I stand by my statement. It's not exactly the same as you noted. Granted, the Windows 8 desktop is the perfection(my opinion, you're welcome to disagree) of the Windows 7 desktop but it's definitely has it's differences. If you put the final non-Aero version of the desktop in front of a user, they would absolutely be able to tell it wasn't Windows 7.
Functionally, they are close to being the same with Windows 8 making the needed additions and improvements to the desktop environment.
Apple will already double their Mac market share if Metro is so bad.
Meanwhile, Apple's tablet market share will not suffer at all when the Surface drops. Not only is Metro lame, but the cheapest Surface is said to be about $1000.
Thompson
I think what is going on at Microsoft is a lack of vision at the top. There is not anyone I am aware of there who has a clear, innovative vision of what they should be doing. They obviously CAN do a lot, but their products all have that designed by committee feel to them. And Steve Ballmer? That guy doesn't even have the vision to select a good pair of pants. They need a real leader there.
He may have been a great hardware engineer and a charming geek, and we love him for it, but Steve Wozniak has zero taste. Why do you think that Steve Jobs never brought him back to Apple?
Invoking the opinions of "the other Steve" carries absolutely no weight with me.
Thompson
And you see where Woz is. NOT at Apple. Haha.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610
Except in Apple's case, consumers just can't get enough of it. Apple has been "closed platform" for years now.
Apple does it right.
MS lays eggs in trying to be what they are not, what they are not set up for, and what their attitude about how people should interact with tech simply does not support.
I was pointing out what the article said. I was not stating my opinion. Just bought a Macbook in March and after using Windows for years and couldn't be happier. My complaint isn't with Apple but with AppleInsider posting a link to this article that I don't believe has anything to do with Apple. At best I believe the person who wrote the original article has a pro-Linux agenda and AppleInsider tried to spin it as pro-Apple.
I don't expect "un-biased" coverage from an Apple blog. I just don't see how they drew a conclusion that Valve will be diverting more attention to Mac when Gabe Newell is criticizing closed platforms and discussing Valve's desire to give Linux more attention. Personally, I believe Gabe has no intention to give up on Intel-based Windows or OSX platforms, but he is spreading FUD to try and have Microsoft open Windows RT to 3rd party app stores.
But I still don't see how ANYONE could logically come to the conclusion that the original article was intended to be good news for the Mac version of Steam. That concept does not appear in the original article and is COMPLETELY fabricated by this blog.
(now I am just waiting to be reported and have my post removed)
GIant-ass tiles, low information density Metro crap, doesn't look anything like previous Windows... what could go wrong?!
and...
Metro UI = low information density garbage.
[INDENT][VIDEO]
Quote:
Originally Posted by bighype
GIant-ass tiles, low information density Metro crap, doesn't look anything like previous Windows... what could go wrong?!
Metro UI = low information density garbage.
Oh, my....
I wonder if MS will send out a new "coaster" every week -- with 10,000 free hours...
I have the complete AOL set -- some in their original packaging
Quote:
Originally Posted by bighype
GIant-ass tiles, low information density Metro crap, doesn't look anything like previous Windows... what could go wrong?!
and...
Metro UI = low information density garbage.
Sigh, why do I bother correcting folks? Here goes...
If you'll notice the screen, 6 of those tiles are showing at a glance information. Interesting, not a grid of static icons, but a grid of tiles showing up-to-date information on each app. That's not low information density at all. The iPad home screen is a better example of low information density.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bighype
GIant-ass tiles, low information density Metro crap, doesn't look anything like previous Windows... what could go wrong?!
and...
Metro UI = low information density garbage.
The first of these reminds me of Proloquo2go for the iPad/iPhone:
This is a very well done app -- and with an iPad, saves the user thousands of dollars and delivers a superior mobile experience.
http://www.assistiveware.com/product/proloquo2go