Court documents allegedly show Samsung copied iPhone icons

1356

Comments

  • Reply 41 of 102

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post





    Asian cultures, in general, tend to emphasize community rather than individuality. For many Asian cultures, building on the work of others is honored.

    That said, it's really irrelevant. We have laws in this country and there are laws in other countries. if Samsung is breaking the law and illegally copying Apple's product, it is irrelevant whether that is a cultural difference or simply lazy management.


    Well said and very thoughtful....but I'm leaning towards "lazy management!"


     


    One has only to cast one's mind back to the pre-iPhone era...the state of the art at that time was the BB, Treo and/or the Razr...Ugh! Same with the iPad....prior to the iPad we had the MS "swivel" so called tablet that was truly an abomination in every sense of the word....think back to the sony ultra portables and netbooks compared to Apple's MBA.


     


    All other companies (and I do mean "all") have used Apple as the blueprint of their designs...they are "reverse" engineering Apple's products only making them cheaper and with clunky sw and basically ripping off the consumer! ;)

  • Reply 42 of 102
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    At the risk of sounding "racist," does anyone disagree, that Asian companies find it easier to "copy" than "innovate?" There, I said it.

    I don't think race or any form of genetics plays a factor. I will say that there are cultures that see copyright infringement differently, but that can be said about the UK and US, too, even in regards to the current proceedings.

    So if we look at culture, which includes the laws within a culture, I think we can find more stealing if you look at it from a Western PoV. But that's a single PoV. What we have to do is look at it from within a culture to see if it's considered stealing from within a particular culture. That is already something that is common in the US when it comes to digital downloads. This comic helps explains some of the issues involved...

  • Reply 43 of 102
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    dogchop99 wrote: »
    Samsung - the stupidest company on Earth - ROFLMAO!

    And yet they are the only Android-based vendor that is making any money and they are making a lot. In fact, they are making so much money that even if they are hit with the assumed $2.5B penalty from this lawsuit they'll still have made a lot more, have ingrained themselves and learned to create some quality products along the way by copying Apple's strategy. For better or worse it seems unlikely that Samsung will be worse off for their "stupid" decisions.
  • Reply 44 of 102

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post





    I don't think race or any form of genetics plays a factor. I will say that there are cultures that see copyright infringement differently, but that can be said about the UK and US, too, even in regards to the current proceedings.

    So if we look at culture, which includes the laws within a culture, I think we can find more stealing if you look at it from a Western PoV. But that's a single PoV. What we have to do is look at it from within a culture to see if it's considered stealing from within a particular culture. That is already something that is common in the US when it comes to digital downloads. This comic helps explains some of the issues involved...


    Solip...always an intelligent argument...but I think the facts are against you...look at Korea's, Japan's and China's intractability when it came to Apple's imports....Apple thru sheer dominance of design over came said intransigence! :)


     

  • Reply 45 of 102


    WTF...when I try to edit my remarks, I get a blank "reply" box....Ugh! I AI trying to go out of business...does anyone at AI try and use their iPhone on these message boards/ Ugggggggggggh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please tell me i'm not the only one?????????????????????????????????

  • Reply 46 of 102
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,399member


    Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

    WTF...when I try to edit my remarks, I get a blank "reply" box....Ugh! I AI trying to go out of business...does anyone at AI try and use their iPhone on these message boards/ Ugggggggggggh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please tell me i'm not the only one?????????????????????????????????


     


    I've only had the pleasure of moderating from an iDevice (which really isn't too bad). I've never tried posting from one, but I trust the people who have to relay their experiences as accurately as possible.


     


    This just tells me that Huddler needs to really get cracking on their iOS board layout. image

  • Reply 47 of 102
    jragostajragosta Posts: 10,473member
    I disagree.
    • Are you saying a pad of paper is synonymous with notes? I would think an icon showing a pen and pad would be an alternative that doesn't look like Apple's icon.
    • Apple used a silhouette on an address book to represent contacts. Is a silhouette the only way to show this?
    • Why do gears have to be used to show settings?
    • Regarding the music icon, it could have been any note. Even Samsung's note looked different pre and post iPhone, with the new one positioned just like Apple did. They could have easily used the treble clef and staff lines, a pair of headphones with a music note, a musical instrument, etc.

    The question is, if 100 people were asked to design a logo to represent one of these items, what percentage of people would come up with a graphic so close to what Apple used? Then ask get the same people to design a series of logos to represent several of these items and see how many would come up with a series that looks like Apple's. It's one thing to have one logo that is similar but to have so many? Very unlikely... unless the logos were copied.

    I don't think that changes anything I said.

    Some of the icons are very obvious copies. It will be easy to prove that they were copied - especially if Apple compares them to the standard icons in Android.

    Others will be harder to prove. is simply a pair of connected eighth notes protectable? probably not. Is a yellow legal pad protectable? probably not. So Apple has a much higher burden of proof for those icons.

    In the end, it won't matter, though. If the icons themselves were protected by trademarks, then copying them is an infringement and Samsung will lose. If the icons were NOT protected by trademarks, then Apple would have to show that Google's copies were nearly identical (like the phone icon) to win. If they are similar, but different, Google may well get off by saying that they were inspired by the Apple icons, but not copies.
  • Reply 48 of 102

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    I've only had the pleasure of moderating from an iDevice (which really isn't too bad). I've never tried posting from one, but I trust the people who have to relay their experiences as accurately as possible.


     


    This just tells me that Huddler needs to really get cracking on their iOS board layout. image



    Thanks Skil, but on my iPhone 4s it is really hard to read the replies even in landscape.....the text is way too small. Don't mean to sound bitchy but it really needs to be addressed. Best regards...love the site and appreciate all your efforts! :)

  • Reply 49 of 102
    Hmm, wonder where Apple got some of those icon ideas from? Oh yeah, stolen from Nokia in 2004 with the 7710, just like the crappy iMessage was a pathetic attempt at stealing BBM.

    If you all would stop circle jerking and actually look into history, you would find that there isn't a single thing on the iphone that is original. Not even the design.

    So pull up a Google search of Nokia 7710 From 2004? Is that a handset in a box? Is that a binder for contacts with the binding on the left? Is that a magnifying glass for search?

    Let's go back even further, to say 2002. Let's look at the Blackberry 5810. Uh oh, what is that calendar icon. Surely Apple wasn't influenced by that. And that 'To-Do' list looks suspiciously like the reminders icon. And that Airplane mode icon def had no impact on the iOS Airplane mode icon.

    Speaking of a grid of icons for an OS? I thought Apple invented that, because they invented everything.

    When you people wake up and do a little research and maybe think for yourselves, you might actually snap out of that 'reality distortion field'. Well, some of you anyway. Apple took other peoples ideas, now they are suing claiming them as their own ideas. Can't stand the hypocrisy.
  • Reply 50 of 102
    WTF...when I try to edit my remarks, I get a blank "reply" box....Ugh! I AI trying to go out of business...does anyone at AI try and use their iPhone on these message boards/ Ugggggggggggh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please tell me i'm not the only one?????????????????????????????????
    Ironically, AI's rich text editor is not compatible with any iDevice browser. As usual, great job AI.
  • Reply 51 of 102
    sennensennen Posts: 1,465member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post


    Well said and very thoughtful....but I'm leaning towards "lazy management!"


     



     


    This is what I'd point to, and unimaginative. Samsung's corporate culture perhaps.

  • Reply 52 of 102
    muppetrymuppetry Posts: 3,328member
    mac.world wrote: »
    Hmm, wonder where Apple got some of those icon ideas from? Oh yeah, stolen from Nokia in 2004 with the 7710, just like the crappy iMessage was a pathetic attempt at stealing BBM.

    If you all would stop circle jerking and actually look into history, you would find that there isn't a single thing on the iphone that is original. Not even the design.

    So pull up a Google search of Nokia 7710 From 2004? Is that a handset in a box? Is that a binder for contacts with the binding on the left? Is that a magnifying glass for search?

    Let's go back even further, to say 2002. Let's look at the Blackberry 5810. Uh oh, what is that calendar icon. Surely Apple wasn't influenced by that. And that 'To-Do' list looks suspiciously like the reminders icon. And that Airplane mode icon def had no impact on the iOS Airplane mode icon.

    Speaking of a grid of icons for an OS? I thought Apple invented that, because they invented everything.

    When you people wake up and do a little research and maybe think for yourselves, you might actually snap out of that 'reality distortion field'. Well, some of you anyway. Apple took other peoples ideas, now they are suing claiming them as their own ideas. Can't stand the hypocrisy.

    At last - a spirited defense of Samsung. Oh, hang on, maybe not. Just another tirade that Apple copied first. Except those icons are quite different. Well, never mind. Carry on.
  • Reply 53 of 102
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    Solip...always an intelligent argument...but I think the facts are against you...look at Korea's, Japan's and China's intractability when it came to Apple's imports....Apple thru sheer dominance of design over came said intransigence! :)

    Sure, but those cultures are intertwined. We know how these countries came together and when. We know how they've interacted over the generations.

    Take the way Asian businessmen dress. That is western influence. Take the way many newer countries have adopted laws that are based on the US system. And while I can't think of any examples offhand I'm certain it has gone the other way, too. My point is that what you're seeing is mostly likely entirely culture based. That means it can change, even within a generation, if a culture (as a whole) feels that it best suits their needs to change.

    As we move toward a more unified world with instant communication I don't see how our cultures won't help but intertwine even more than they already have. There will be move change from the dominate culture but we all will share, adapt and grow from each other. I think it's a beautiful thing. I also think that what Samsung is doing, while I don't agree with it, doesn't inherently mean it's bad or evil simply because I don't agree with it. That's the funny thing about culture: you don't have to like it but you do have to accept it. However, in the US Samsung has to deal with US laws that were constructed by the reigning cultural dynamics so they have to deal with it, too, even if they don't like it.
  • Reply 54 of 102
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    mac.world wrote: »
    Ironically, AI's rich text editor is not compatible with any iDevice browser. As usual, great job AI.

    it's odd that after 5 years since the iPhone was launched they decided to switch to a system that wasn't compatible with the iPhone.
  • Reply 55 of 102
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 30,690member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    Here's the kicker, though: Is it the quality of the knock-off that determines the outcome or is it the fact that they (blatantly) ARE knockoffs?



     


    Similarity to the original is the determining factor. The "messaging" icon is sufficiently different. The most problematic ones are the Phone icon, maybe the "Notes" icon (but is it different enough IMO), the "address book" is probably going to be a problem, and the "music" icon could be a problem. Designs that directly lift elements and merely change the background color or background texture, for example, are definite problems.

  • Reply 56 of 102
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 30,690member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post





    it's odd that after 5 years since the iPhone was launched they decided to switch to a system that wasn't compatible with the iPhone.


     


    Sing it, brother.

  • Reply 57 of 102
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 30,690member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sennen View Post


     


    This is what I'd point to, and unimaginative. Samsung's corporate culture perhaps.



     


    Laziness on the part of the designers. They were probably told, without any real direction, "make some icons that look like these... and you have one hour for each one".

  • Reply 58 of 102
    shaminoshamino Posts: 409member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TBell View Post


    Exactly. You can show note taking many different ways. I took notes on plain white paper. 



     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post


    Go to Google and type in the following searches (search for "images").


     


    notes icons


    telephone icons


    contacts icons


    messaging icons


     


    There are numerous different examples for these, which makes Samsung look even worse. ...



     


    It may be interesting to see the Android-standard icons, for comparison.  Visit this page and scroll down to image titled "Standard Launcher Icons".  I know that many Android deployments don't use these, but they are the standard.  My first-generation Droid used them, and I don't think it's the only one.  Note that they don't look a thing like Apple's standard icons.  For example


     



    • The dialer (row 3, column 5) is a blue square with a white handset, at a 45-degree angle (vs. Apple's -45-degree orientation).  Looks much more like the icon found on Bell Telephone pay phones than Apple's icon


    • The Gallery (Android's picture viewer) (row 2, column 3) is a rectangle showing the silhouette of a mountain against a yellow-brown gradient sunset


    • The text message icon (row 3 column 3) is the green rectangular speech bubble with a smiley emoticon that Samsung used.  But I don't think it's that similar to Apple's icon


    • There is no standard Android Notes app, so no icon here.


    • The contacts (row 1 column 6) is an image of three white "rolodex" cards with an android silhouette


     


    But this isn't the only alternative.  On my Motorola Atrix phone (using Motorola's "MotoBlur" UI), (sorry, I don't have an available link to the images) the icons are all clearly based on the Android-standard iconography::


     



    • The dialer is a green square with a white human silhouette, with a phone handset covering it at about a -10-degree angle


    • The gallery is a gray square with photo-tabs in two corners, showing a brown mountain range with a blue sky above


    • The text messaging is a blue speech bubble with a white "smile" emoticon overlayed


    • The contacts is two blue rolodex cards with a human silhouette


     


    and then there are more general similarities.  Samsung's icons are generally objects on round-rect backgrounds, like all of Apple's.  Android-standard icons tend to be either on square backgrounds, or without a background (with the object itself defining the icon outline.)


     


    I don't think every one of Apple's examples is a good one, but it seems clear that Samsung intended to copy Apple.  If they were just being lazy, they would've used the Andoid-standard icons or designed something similar.


     


    And if they were trying to be original, there are plenty of ways to represent these concepts.  We've already seen plenty of examples just in this discussion.

  • Reply 59 of 102

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post





    Sure, but those cultures are intertwined. We know how these countries came together and when. We know how they've interacted over the generations.

    Take the way Asian businessmen dress. That is western influence. Take the way many newer countries have adopted laws that are based on the US system. And while I can't think of any examples offhand I'm certain it has gone the other way, too. My point is that what you're seeing is mostly likely entirely culture based. That means it can change, even within a generation, if a culture (as a whole) feels that it best suits their needs to change.

    As we move toward a more unified world with instant communication I don't see how our cultures won't help but intertwine even more than they already have. There will be move change from the dominate culture but we all will share, adapt and grow from each other. I think it's a beautiful thing. I also think that what Samsung is doing, while I don't agree with it, doesn't inherently mean it's bad or evil simply because I don't agree with it. That's the funny thing about culture: you don't have to like it but you do have to accept it. However, in the US Samsung has to deal with US laws that were constructed by the reigning cultural dynamics so they have to deal with it, too, even if they don't like it.


    Again, Solip...well said and "in a perfect world......"


     


    If you or I were caught in a "lie," we would feel humiliated and shamed.....Samsung on the other hand, would just think they messed up their processes/negotiations....I think it is naive to espouse western morals and values on asian/middl eastern cultures. One only has to go to a bazaar to learn that! Again, don't mean to sound ethnocentric....but in the cold light of day, it is what it is! :)

  • Reply 60 of 102

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post





    Sure, but those cultures are intertwined....


    With all due respect... not quite so sure about your premise. Like most cultures, the vietnamese "hate" the Chinese, the South Korean's distrust the North Koreans, etc., etc.


     


    Rather like Northern Ireland has a problem with the south or Israel has a problem with Arabs when essentially they are basically the same people or "peoples...." Could you tell the difference between a tutsi and a hutu? Me neither!  :)

Sign In or Register to comment.