I think that the first any company should hear about a lawsuit is the police officers that come to their data center to protect the existing data from destruction.
If a lawyer just serves up something or other, they have all the time in the world to just delete whatever they want.
Samsung has allegedly destroyed evidence prior to trial. Why didn't they destroy this? Could there be even more damning evidence?
That's the common take away. If a jury sees this as damning and they know you've deleted other evidence but not this it's only natural to assume that the other evidence isn't just more damning, but considerably more damning. This is why it's better to convolute the data instead of bringing focus to something that allows our minds to go wild with speculation. Just think about this forum and the disappointment with each new Apple product for not meeting some impossible goal.
They had a system in place that deleted emails after a couple of weeks. As far as I know they haven't been accused of deleting internal report documents. It's the continued deletion of emails after legal proceedings were instituted that is unlawful. (And no, I'm not a lawyer.)
No, it literaly says: we need to make better looking icons, and we don't want it be in a way that they look like the iPhone's. In fact, this is clearing Samsung.
Sorry to say you are wrong on that. English may be your second language so you may miss what the translated text is saying.
Sorry Apple shareholders, but I can not see any problem with this report. You do analyse your products with competition and improve on competition. This is what you call 'innovation' that Apple has been doing, isnt it?
Based on your comment, I take it you did not read the report. You should take the time and actually look at it.
For innovation, look at WP7. MS has done a great job there with some great new and fresh ideas. Google and Android? Samsung and TouchWiz? Not so much.
This is pretty damning stuff, but only if Apple lawyers can maximize its potential. Can't say that I am overly impressed with what we have heard of their case to date. Bringing in a 3rd party expert witness that Samsung lawyers was able to discredit so easily? C'mon!
Furthermore, I am puzzled by the lack of logical flow to the presentation of evidence. People here have done a better job of assembling the damning evidence. But I do recognize we are getting the play-by-play second hand, and the case has months to come.
They had a system in place that deleted emails after a couple of weeks. As far as I know they haven't been accused of deleting internal report documents. It's the continued deletion of emails after legal proceedings were instituted that is unlawful. (And no, I'm not a lawyer.)
Close but not completely accurate.
There's no claims that Samsung deleted emails or anything else after they were sued by Apple. It's that they didn't start keeping allemail communications applicable to Apple and it's products when they first knew, or should have known, that that a lawsuit was likely. According to the court that should have been about 6 months prior to the lawsuit. Oddly tho, that's not when Apple considered a lawsuit would be likely, saying that was determined about four months later than the court thinks it should be. That's the reason Apple gives as to why they supposedly didn't keep a specific record of appropriate emails either. The difference, and the reason the court probably won't view the two in the same light, is that Apple says they didn't actually delete any as far as they know, unlike what happened in the home offices of Samsung in Korea.
FWIW other Samsung locations most often used a different email system (Outlook or others) which didn't automatically delete after two weeks according to court docs. It's generally only the Korean home offices that are under the gun.
From everything I've been reading thus far, it's appears Samsung will lose and lose big. But this is a California jury, so they just might say not guilty -- remember the O.J. trial??
I'm wondering..... how do both companies manage to acquire such sensitive documents?
When one party sues another both parties are required to submit upon request to the other relevant documents. In fact, they have a duty to preserve such documents if they suspect there will be a lawsuit. Samsung is also accused of trying to destroy relevant information.
From everything I've been reading thus far, it's appears Samsung will lose and lose big. But this is a California jury, so they just might say not guilty -- remember the O.J. trial??
So far the only evidence presented is from Apple's side. Samsung's chance to present their competing experts and evidence hasn't come yet. That would be the biggest reason it seems one-sided.
From everything I've been reading thus far, it's appears Samsung will lose and lose big. But this is a California jury, so they just might say not guilty -- remember the O.J. trial??
OJ was found not-guilty in the criminal trial but was found guilty in the civil trial. That is very telling of how the justice system works between criminal and civil cases. Because this is a civil case it's more likely Samsung will be found guilty than had this been a criminal case with the same jury, judge and lawyers.
When one party sues another both parties are required to submit upon request to the other relevant documents. In fact, they have a duty to preserve such documents if they suspect there will be a lawsuit. Samsung is also accused of trying to destroy relevant information.
In truth they're accused of not retaining all email communications at an earlier enough date to ensure nothing pertinent was deleted. They aren't accused of destroying specific documents or communications favorable to Apple. Quite a difference in reality. That's why the Court's statement to be made to the jury in it's instructions is relatively mild.
This blog is becoming increasingly tedious to read.
I remember years ago around the time of the original iPhone AppleInsider used to have interesting stories about what you can expect in the next apple products.
Nowadays those stories are sandwiched, or rather, swamped amongst boring, one sided commentary on legal cases.
I don't know who to blame, AppleInsider for getting sucked into the Apple vs Samsung/HTC/(Insert any other big mobile manufacturer here) flame war and losing touch with what made this blog interesting.
Or Apple, who by all accounts in the media these days have gone from the most exciting consumer electronics company to a large 'Suing Company' with a side business in consumer electronics.
And we all think Apple does not compare iOS to android usings sheets and states
* We need to alter notifications and have them drop from the top bar
* We need to have camera button on the lock screen
yeah right, Apple developed those features with designers who had been locked in an isolation cell since 2004...
Yes, but Apple didn't implement those items in the exact same way as Android. They differentiated it and/or improved upon it. Sammy, on the other hand, saw the iPhone and copy and pasted without improving upon it.
Comments
Samsung has allegedly destroyed evidence prior to trial. Why didn't they destroy this? Could there be even more damning evidence?
Originally Posted by ankleskater
Could there be even more damning evidence?
That's what they managed to destroy in time.
I think that the first any company should hear about a lawsuit is the police officers that come to their data center to protect the existing data from destruction.
If a lawyer just serves up something or other, they have all the time in the world to just delete whatever they want.
Geezz....
I'd never buy another Samsung product.
I hope the burn to the ground. Look at their top executives in SK behaved, they are above the law.
That's the common take away. If a jury sees this as damning and they know you've deleted other evidence but not this it's only natural to assume that the other evidence isn't just more damning, but considerably more damning. This is why it's better to convolute the data instead of bringing focus to something that allows our minds to go wild with speculation. Just think about this forum and the disappointment with each new Apple product for not meeting some impossible goal.
They had a system in place that deleted emails after a couple of weeks. As far as I know they haven't been accused of deleting internal report documents. It's the continued deletion of emails after legal proceedings were instituted that is unlawful. (And no, I'm not a lawyer.)
Sorry to say you are wrong on that. English may be your second language so you may miss what the translated text is saying.
Based on your comment, I take it you did not read the report. You should take the time and actually look at it.
For innovation, look at WP7. MS has done a great job there with some great new and fresh ideas. Google and Android? Samsung and TouchWiz? Not so much.
This is pretty damning stuff, but only if Apple lawyers can maximize its potential. Can't say that I am overly impressed with what we have heard of their case to date. Bringing in a 3rd party expert witness that Samsung lawyers was able to discredit so easily? C'mon!
Furthermore, I am puzzled by the lack of logical flow to the presentation of evidence. People here have done a better job of assembling the damning evidence. But I do recognize we are getting the play-by-play second hand, and the case has months to come.
Samsung looks like they are f*cked in this one... If Apple wins this everyone else that copied their design might as well get their checkbooks ready.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wings
They had a system in place that deleted emails after a couple of weeks. As far as I know they haven't been accused of deleting internal report documents. It's the continued deletion of emails after legal proceedings were instituted that is unlawful. (And no, I'm not a lawyer.)
Close but not completely accurate.
There's no claims that Samsung deleted emails or anything else after they were sued by Apple. It's that they didn't start keeping all email communications applicable to Apple and it's products when they first knew, or should have known, that that a lawsuit was likely. According to the court that should have been about 6 months prior to the lawsuit. Oddly tho, that's not when Apple considered a lawsuit would be likely, saying that was determined about four months later than the court thinks it should be. That's the reason Apple gives as to why they supposedly didn't keep a specific record of appropriate emails either. The difference, and the reason the court probably won't view the two in the same light, is that Apple says they didn't actually delete any as far as they know, unlike what happened in the home offices of Samsung in Korea.
FWIW other Samsung locations most often used a different email system (Outlook or others) which didn't automatically delete after two weeks according to court docs. It's generally only the Korean home offices that are under the gun.
From everything I've been reading thus far, it's appears Samsung will lose and lose big. But this is a California jury, so they just might say not guilty -- remember the O.J. trial??
Quote:
Originally Posted by jay1985
I'm wondering..... how do both companies manage to acquire such sensitive documents?
When one party sues another both parties are required to submit upon request to the other relevant documents. In fact, they have a duty to preserve such documents if they suspect there will be a lawsuit. Samsung is also accused of trying to destroy relevant information.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Potsie Webber
From everything I've been reading thus far, it's appears Samsung will lose and lose big. But this is a California jury, so they just might say not guilty -- remember the O.J. trial??
So far the only evidence presented is from Apple's side. Samsung's chance to present their competing experts and evidence hasn't come yet. That would be the biggest reason it seems one-sided.
OJ was found not-guilty in the criminal trial but was found guilty in the civil trial. That is very telling of how the justice system works between criminal and civil cases. Because this is a civil case it's more likely Samsung will be found guilty than had this been a criminal case with the same jury, judge and lawyers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell
When one party sues another both parties are required to submit upon request to the other relevant documents. In fact, they have a duty to preserve such documents if they suspect there will be a lawsuit. Samsung is also accused of trying to destroy relevant information.
In truth they're accused of not retaining all email communications at an earlier enough date to ensure nothing pertinent was deleted. They aren't accused of destroying specific documents or communications favorable to Apple. Quite a difference in reality. That's why the Court's statement to be made to the jury in it's instructions is relatively mild.
This blog is becoming increasingly tedious to read.
I remember years ago around the time of the original iPhone AppleInsider used to have interesting stories about what you can expect in the next apple products.
Nowadays those stories are sandwiched, or rather, swamped amongst boring, one sided commentary on legal cases.
I don't know who to blame, AppleInsider for getting sucked into the Apple vs Samsung/HTC/(Insert any other big mobile manufacturer here) flame war and losing touch with what made this blog interesting.
Or Apple, who by all accounts in the media these days have gone from the most exciting consumer electronics company to a large 'Suing Company' with a side business in consumer electronics.
However, when you see that Apple seems to be able to patent anything nowadays: (This is ridiculous) http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/08/08/apple_patent/ , it hardly seems surprising.
How long until Apple patent the patent?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
$2,500,000,000?
?
$25,000,000,000.
Plus 250 years in jail for their top execs, how does that sound ?
Seems excessive. How about until 10% of Android phones are running 4.1 Jelly Bean. Oh, wait, 250 years might be shorter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Seems excessive. How about until 10% of Android phones are running 4.1 Jelly Bean. Oh, wait, 250 years might be shorter.
We only have one Samsung product - a printer. It will soon be replaced.
How about Samsung top exec carrying a sign around their neck (in jail) : iTHIEVE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mausz
And we all think Apple does not compare iOS to android usings sheets and states
* We need to alter notifications and have them drop from the top bar
* We need to have camera button on the lock screen
yeah right, Apple developed those features with designers who had been locked in an isolation cell since 2004...
Yes, but Apple didn't implement those items in the exact same way as Android. They differentiated it and/or improved upon it. Sammy, on the other hand, saw the iPhone and copy and pasted without improving upon it.