Apple's new mini Dock Connector to feature 9-pin, orientation independent design - sources

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  • Reply 41 of 107
    welshdogwelshdog Posts: 1,663member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post




    2. It's 9 reversible pins but the cable will negotiate how it's connected once it gets power. [somewhat complex, more expensive per cable design]



    And this way Apple gets to control the cable market with proprietary tech that third parties are not allowed to license.

  • Reply 42 of 107
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    I wonder if there are long-term reliability concerns with making the 8 pins on each side independent in such a thin area? In such a case, I guess, option 2 with 8 solid blocks of pins assemble from either side of the connector would be the most robust.

    If anyone can make it happen, may it look easily and make it cost effective it's Apple. That holds true for number 2, as well, because if they want the audio line-out, video, etc. to be available they will have to use electronics somewhere to negotiate the type of data over what pins. Seems unlikely to keep it all in an otherwise dumb cable if you don't have to.


    PS: When you now type "etc." in iOS 6 and double tap the space bar to add a period it no longer auto-capitalizes the next letter like it's starting a new sentence. It's about time!
  • Reply 43 of 107
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,507member
    Most likely cost and the volumes Apple needs.

    http://www.anandtech.com/show/5258/apple-acquires-anobit-bringing-nand-endurance-technology-inhouse

    Not only is the NAND slow, it's also less reliable than SSD NAND. One of the reasons Apple is thought to have bought Anobit is that they have technology to increase the endurance of cheap NAND through controller logic.

    There is no evidence that Apple is using cheap NAND. In fact, according to testing done at Anandtech, Apple has some of, if not the fastest NAND transfer rates available on mobile devices, attesting to their use of higher quality NAND. Some other devices have NAND speeds several times slowed, showing that they are using cheaper AND, as well as no controller. Apple appears to be using an effective controller.
  • Reply 44 of 107
    asciiascii Posts: 5,941member


    Apple seem obsessed with constantly designing new ports. Do they have a special ports division or something?

  • Reply 45 of 107
    pendergastpendergast Posts: 1,358member
    tortri wrote: »
    I'm leaning towards a thunderbolt connection but I guess we'll see september.

    I'd reckon it depends on if the ARM SoC supports Thunderbolt. So far it has been Intel-only.
  • Reply 46 of 107


    It makes sense to utilize the extra pins on the other side, but like you said, this mystery could be easily resolved if we could either see inside the iPhone end of the connector or see how many signals/pads there are to the wire in the cable connection side. At the rate these leaks are going, we will know by the end of this week. 

  • Reply 47 of 107
    pendergastpendergast Posts: 1,358member
    Others of which are what? orientation independence and smaller size are the only two I see. 2 pros. here are 2 cons. It's not a standard plug, so i can't use any micro usb cord i have hanging around (dozens of these things) and it seems to have lost a few pins in the process, which i dont know if that impacts this thing negatively or not functionality wise for accessory makers. Can't imagine it does since they likely have to start over anyway for this new adapter. 

    iOS devices have always used proprietary connections, so what's your point? It's not like you suddenly can't use your micro USB plug.

    And for the average consumer, what defines a standard? I'm not talking about the technical definition. For the average user, standard has the same meaning as ubiquitous, as in it's easy to find a cable and your friend probably has one if you forgot yours. Considering the MASSIVE user base (all iOS devices sold and the majority of iPods sold throughout history), the Dock Connector is ubiquitous. I'd say a "friend" is more likely to have one than a micro USB plug, too.

    Given time, the new Dock Connector will have the same fate. Apple has the mindshare and the user base to push it as a pseudo-"standard". You forget who helped "standardize" USB.
  • Reply 48 of 107
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    What about that faster Samsung NAND? And why the heck has Apple deigned to keep such slow NAND in their devices?!

    Apple does use Samsung NAND. As Melgross notes, Apple uses the beat NAND available. Remember that an SSD isn't just NAND. Think of the controller as RAID 0. The drives are the same speed as before but performance is sped up because they are working in tandem. You could do that on CE but the negatives outweigh the pros. Let's see what Anobit can come up with.
  • Reply 49 of 107
    normmnormm Posts: 555member
    pendergast wrote: »
    As far as I'm aware, Thunderbolt requires an Intel chipset. The iPhone uses ARM SoC's. They are not currently compatible with Thunderbolt.
    It's a similar reason why Apple is only just now supporting USB3; they were waiting for Ivy Bridge, which is compatible as opposed to older Intel chipsets.
    You can't always just "plug" something in.

    There's also the issue that most people currently don't have a Thunderbolt device to plug this into! USB3 is compatible with earlier USB, so that's what is likely to be used here. Hopefully, though, they'll design this as a hybrid, so that future devices can also support Thunderbolt without another change in the connector.
  • Reply 50 of 107
    mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post


    Just what society needs another idiot proof connector, are people that stupid they do not know how to plug something in, I know people still have problem plug in two prong power cords into the wall with on prong bigger, they have not figure out how to rotate it 180 degrees.



     


    God forbid that designers and engineers make things easier, simpler, more obvious and more "idiot proof" so we don't have to waste time, energy and brain cells on stupid shit.

  • Reply 51 of 107
    slurpyslurpy Posts: 5,118member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post


    Just what society needs another idiot proof connector, are people that stupid they do not know how to plug something in, I know people still have problem plug in two prong power cords into the wall with on prong bigger, they have not figure out how to rotate it 180 degrees.



     


    You're so right, this whole Apple strategy of 'making this simpler' is just so idiotic, and clearly the wrong way to go about it. Look where it's led them the past few years! Utterly Disastrous! What are they THINKING??!


     


    I'll never understand posts like yours- people who actively get angry when something gets more intuitive, better, faster, simpler, etc. It's not about being 'too stupid' to plug something in'. Half the time I try connecting the phone the wrong way, because either the symbol is faded, or the lights are off and it's too dark to see it, etc. What does this have to do with intelligence? It's another small, albeit slightly frustrating point of friction that will now be removed. Your post and those like yours is evidence that you don't fundamentally understand Apple, what they're trying to accomplish, their philosophy, and that probably never have. It's the combined effect of small details like this that have contributed to their success. 

  • Reply 52 of 107
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,507member
    welshdog wrote: »
    And this way Apple gets to control the cable market with proprietary tech that third parties are not allowed to license.

    And there's a problem with a company controlling its own fate, because of what reason, exactly?
  • Reply 53 of 107
    ssquirrelssquirrel Posts: 1,196member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    Terrible idea; we've been over that.


     


    Who says it isn't?



     


    Yes but in case he didn't read that thread, the reason MagSafe would be bad for the phone connector is that magnets can interfere w/audio.  As far as who says it isn't, the Thunderbolt spec.  It calls for 20 pins.


     


     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post





    Dock Connector 5.

    I addressed that in a thread yesterday. I see 3 possibilities for this design.


    1. It's 9 reversible pins but the device end will only read from one side. [least complex, last costly, least future forward]


    2. It's 9 reversible pins but the cable will negotiate how it's connected once it gets power. [somewhat complex, more expensive per cable design]


    3. It's 17 reversible pins but the device will negotiate orientation of pins (perhaps by having two pins for DC power that are opposite each other so the negotiation is simple). [most complex, most future forward, more expensive in the device]

    That said, the additional cost and complexity for the 3rd option doesn't seem that high considering the longterm benefits.


     


    A 4th option (or tweak on #2) is that it is USB3x2.  Let's say that since the pin counts match, it might be USB3, just w/a different connector.  What if the pins being on each side to allow for it to be inserted either way all function when it is inserted?  The 9th pin would not be doubled, but it's possible they could maybe push extra power beyond spec this way for faster charging, maybe faster data.  I'm probably wrong for several technical reasons, but it's a fun idea.  If the edge was forming the ground pin, it might not matter that it wasn't duplicated.

  • Reply 54 of 107
    welshdogwelshdog Posts: 1,663member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by WelshDog View Post


    And this way Apple gets to control the cable market with proprietary tech that third parties are not allowed to license.



     


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by melgross View Post





    And there's a problem with a company controlling its own fate, because of what reason, exactly?


    Don't believe I mentioned a problem.


    Speaking of problems, what's yours?

  • Reply 55 of 107

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post


    Just what society needs another idiot proof connector, are people that stupid they do not know how to plug something in, I know people still have problem plug in two prong power cords into the wall with on prong bigger, they have not figure out how to rotate it 180 degrees.



    Wow. I hope you don't work in customer service for a tech company. 

  • Reply 56 of 107
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,507member
    [VIDEO][/VIDEO]
    normm wrote: »
    There's also the issue that most people currently don't have a Thunderbolt device to plug this into! USB3 is compatible with earlier USB, so that's what is likely to be used here. Hopefully, though, they'll design this as a hybrid, so that future devices can also support Thunderbolt without another change in the connector.

    I'm hoping that the USB support in this new connector is for USB 3. I don't know of any reason why the old one couldn't support it too. But there are issues with termination in connectors going to higher speeds. That's why, with Ethernet, new connectors are required every time a newer, faster standard comes up, in addition to newer wires. Looking at some old, never crimped, Cat 3 connectors I have, and newer Cat 5, Cat 5E and Cat 6, I can see very subtle differences, but pretty much, a magnifier is needed to tell the difference.
  • Reply 57 of 107
    pendergastpendergast Posts: 1,358member
    welshdog wrote: »
    And this way Apple gets to control the cable market with proprietary tech that third parties are not allowed to license.

    You mean like now, where Apple controls the market but third-parties can pay a royalty fee to make cables.
  • Reply 58 of 107
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 31,507member
    welshdog wrote: »
    Don't believe I mentioned a problem.
    Speaking of problems, what's yours?

    Don't be a wiseass. Your comment reads negatively, as you must know. I was wondering why you apparently think its not a good thing.
  • Reply 59 of 107
    ssquirrelssquirrel Posts: 1,196member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Pendergast View Post





    I'd reckon it depends on if the ARM SoC supports Thunderbolt. So far it has been Intel-only.


     


    It's from January, but that is all addressed here:  http://www.anandtech.com/show/5425/why-thunderbolt-wont-come-to-the-iphone-anytime-soon

  • Reply 60 of 107

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by journeyman79 View Post


    Actually, the L shaped Magsafe adapters are 2nd Gen. The first generation of MagSafe were also T Shaped, making MagSafe2 the third generation MagSafe.



     


    No, not really. The original T-shape and L-Shape magsafe connectors were otherwise exactly the same, and completely interchangable. Magsafe 2 is a new, incompatible connector.

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