The problem with AAPL as an investment is that there is never a good time to get out. I've been gradually accumulating shares since Jobs came back and it's been hugely profitable. But now I want to finish my basement or buy a car, and I'm loath to sell any of my AAPL shares because they are my best investment by far. The few times I have sold some shares to lock in my gains, I've just found myself buying more shares at a higher price a few months later.
Oh, the hardship of being a long-term AAPL investor :-)
Numbers are numbers. You can't make a valid comparison between numbers that have a lot of inflation between them, if comparing them in current dollars vs old dollars.
Personally, I think less about inflation and the general mood of the markets In 2000, MSFT was riding 10 years of great news, a president and a congress that balanced the budget, a president that kept us out of wars and therefore a peacetime economy, and the naive invention of 'outsourcing' (which arguably increased [U.S.] worker productivity numbers) and the unlimited 'invention' of the Internet. Then came:
The DotComBomb
Sept 11
Afghanistan War
WMDs and the Iraq War
Peak Oil (oil becomes a strategic [we fight for it] asset)
Bush Tax cuts as a stimulus (sort of)
The globalization of the consumer market (China sneezes, US catches pneumonia)
The Real Estate Bubble Bursting
the Credit Default Swaps debacle
Bank Bailouts as a stimulus (not)
Automotive Bailouts as a stimulus (sort of)
The Global economic Crisis (Greece)
Iran/Israel sabre rattling
Arab Spring and Libya, Egypt, and Syria destabalizing Middle East (see peak oil, and Israel/Iran above).
China moving from 2nd world to 1st World power
China running a inflationary economy
The Internet as a means to instigate a Cyber cold war
So in 2012, the fact that any large consumer product company is growing in consumer perception of value, is amazing.
Eliminate any 4 of the above, and Apple would be worth a heckuva lot more than $800 Billion current money.
Obviously, as many here points out, any valid comparison of the market cap has to be made in inflation adjusted currency. However, it should be noted that while MS P/E at the top was around 35, Apples P/E is currently around 15, which indicates a sounder economy with better earnings.
The P/E is indeed a very important stat to take into account. Apple market cap may be high, but its valuation is still outstanding. Its the first time we have a company with both a huge market cap and good valuation. In fact, if apple would be a small company, its growth potential would probably make it have a multiple of 20+ This is where the law of large numbers takes effect, it keeps Apple stock price in check with earnings.
Given the january 2012 monster earnings, its possible investors are going to drive the stock up and expand the PE prior to january 2013 earnings. But make no mistake, Apple will need to deliver in january because the stock will come back down to a more normal PE or 14 or 15 regardless of what the estimates were.
But if Apple delivers good earnings in january, the TTM EPS will rise and Apple may hold its stock price while compressing its PE back to 14. That would be very good news. If everything is goes well Apple may rise to 800$ and hold it through jan 2013 earnings. Apple need a TTM EPS of 55$ in january to hold a stock price of 800$. To get that TTM EPS Apple will need to report a jan 2013 EPS of 16$ or more. Watch the guidance in october, if apple guide 12$ or more we are golden.
If Apple devivers on the rumor of a 6th iPhone that start selling in september and an iPad mini I don't think there will be a sell of "on the news" But if there is no iPad mini there is will be a sell off. On the TV side, if we get something more than the usual Apple TV upgrade its more in favor on the upside. Hoping to finally get AppleTV apps this time.
The small wildcard will be the imac upgrades. When do you guys think it will happen?
No computers at the iPhone event. As much as I'd love to see an updated Mac Mini and updated iMac with no optical drive (and, Apple, an entirely new design? Hmm?), this next keynote is about their biggest seller. If Apple wants to sell any iMacs or Mac Minis this holiday season, they'll pop out refreshes (and, Apple, and entirely new design for the iMac? Hmm?) in October or something (with another keynote to, Apple, highlight the entirely new design for th—okay, I think we get it now ) after the iPhone hype dies down.
I see MAYBE an iPod nano update (actually hardware this time) alongside the iPhone, and if they're doing anything to the touch, now would be the time as well.
I chuckled at the thought that having no iPad mini would kick the stock down. That's funny.
And yeah, I'd love to see an Apple TV with NAiTL, but that's the only thing that would get me to buy one (I'd buy THREE), even IF they magically managed to complete all their deals in two months and completely revolutionize TV the same way they did music. Seriously, I want to be able to see my own previously-existing content without a computer on and iTunes open. I don't want it to require a computer at all beyond the initial setup of the files in iTunes Library format. In the post-PC world, you'd think Apple would be leading the charge on connecting a hard drive to an AirPort to view content over the network on an Apple TV… Allow any (allowed) computer on the network to manage the NAiTL just as it does the local iTunes Library, copy files, edit metadata and such, but don't force me to have iTunes open and a computer on to PLAY the stuff.
But now I want to finish my basement or buy a car, and I'm loath to sell any of my AAPL shares because they are my best investment by far.
I know what you mean. I got out about 5 years ago to build a house. I have zero AAPL shares at this point. I still earned a huge profit from 2000. Oh well I enjoy my house everyday.
The problem with AAPL as an investment is that there is never a good time to get out. I've been gradually accumulating shares since Jobs came back and it's been hugely profitable. But now I want to finish my basement or buy a car, and I'm loath to sell any of my AAPL shares because they are my best investment by far. The few times I have sold some shares to lock in my gains, I've just found myself buying more shares at a higher price a few months later.
Oh, the hardship of being a long-term AAPL investor :-)
Yes... this is a dilemma, as I think small caps are having the air sucked out of them by the behemoths,and globalization. Apple is trending high on my portfolio, but actually UnderArmor is higher/faster growth, and was ahead, literally until today. I need to redistribute as Apple is now 15% of my portfolio, and UnderArmor 8% (my suck*ss 401K mutual funds are lagging, and I need to quit my job to roll them over, which I hear isn't a good investment strategy [quit good job to micromanage your retirement accounts])
Obviously, as many here points out, any valid comparison of the market cap has to be made in inflation adjusted currency. However, it should be noted that while MS P/E at the top was around 35, Apples P/E is currently around 15, which indicates a sounder economy with better earnings.
I wouldn't use "sounder economy" but "conservative investment climate." The economy is not sound... Apple's financials are (no debt, good margins, earning more money than it can spend wisely, hence a dividend).
The fact that the Dividend is being offered will drive up demand, as AAPL now qualifies for Large Cap Income Investment Funds. And could potentially be in the Dow, although the argument is there is no 1 for 1 candidate replaceable companies that would make sense (Read: AAPL is too highly valued to be a Dow Candidate now... removing a 'dog' and adding Apple would overweight (multiplier of 5-10 over any dogs that are dying) it so much it would 'drive' or 'dive' the Dow too much on any single day.
The problem with AAPL as an investment is that there is never a good time to get out. I've been gradually accumulating shares since Jobs came back and it's been hugely profitable. But now I want to finish my basement or buy a car, and I'm loath to sell any of my AAPL shares because they are my best investment by far. The few times I have sold some shares to lock in my gains, I've just found myself buying more shares at a higher price a few months later.
Oh, the hardship of being a long-term AAPL investor :-)
Use some of them as collateral against a loan. If the value goes up faster than the interest rate, you come out ahead.
Finish your basement if it will increase the value of your house. If you buy a car, be sure to calculate the depreciation in your figuring. Trading $30,000 worth of shares for a car could cost you $15,000 in lost share appreciation AND another $10,000 in car depreciation the first year. Second year might cost you $22,000 in lost stock appreciation plus another 5 or 7,000 in car depreciation.
Maybe you could use the dividend to pay for a loan? Then you keep all your shares and stretch the payments on the basement or the car.
I'd rather see you putting the money into a solid home project rather than a depreciating car.
Use some of them as collateral against a loan. If the value goes up faster than the interest rate, you come out ahead.
Finish your basement if it will increase the value of your house. If you buy a car, be sure to calculate the depreciation in your figuring. Trading $30,000 worth of shares for a car could cost you $15,000 in lost share appreciation AND another $10,000 in car depreciation the first year. Second year might cost you $22,000 in lost stock appreciation plus another 5 or 7,000 in car depreciation.
Maybe you could use the dividend to pay for a loan? Then you keep all your shares and stretch the payments on the basement or the car.
I'd rather see you putting the money into a solid home project rather than a depreciating car.
Good ole shorting the stock...
edit... while thinking about it... not exactly, because your loss can only be the value of the loan...(if the shares as collateral are locked) whereas in true shorting (if the share prices increases) you owe amount of the shares shorted plus the delta value between the shorted value and the now value...
But now I want to finish my basement or buy a car, and I'm loath to sell any of my AAPL shares because they are my best investment by far.
I know what you mean. I got out about 5 years ago to build a house. I have zero AAPL shares at this point. I still earned a huge profit from 2000. Oh well I enjoy my house everyday.
Wow!
Who would have known... I bought my first 100 shares of AAPL in 2003 at $17. After increasing my AAPL holdings, I switched to a margin account and have been averaging up ever since. I bought some more today.
Though, AAPL will eventually dip (maybe this November) and the housing market will eventually revive... nothing is sure but death and taxes!
Use some of them as collateral against a loan. If the value goes up faster than the interest rate, you come out ahead.
Finish your basement if it will increase the value of your house. If you buy a car, be sure to calculate the depreciation in your figuring. Trading $30,000 worth of shares for a car could cost you $15,000 in lost share appreciation AND another $10,000 in car depreciation the first year. Second year might cost you $22,000 in lost stock appreciation plus another 5 or 7,000 in car depreciation.
Maybe you could use the dividend to pay for a loan? Then you keep all your shares and stretch the payments on the basement or the car.
I'd rather see you putting the money into a solid home project rather than a depreciating car.
Some of you guys are so silly. Cars are not investments. You really don't need to calculate them this way. They are sunken costs. Whether you're buying a new phone or car, they are expected to depreciate over time. Even if it's a rental car business, these things are marked down over time. The comparison makes no sense as you already know the outcome. In terms of stock, you can lock in gains when you decide to do so. Cashing out doesn't guarantee that you will lose out in the long term. This is just a determination of whether or not to spend money. Even with the basement, the increase in value is most likely incidental there. He would be finishing it out of desire for a finished basement. It gives me a headache whenever people add so much unnecessary abstraction to things which should already be entirely obvious.
No computers at the iPhone event. As much as I'd love to see an updated Mac Mini and updated iMac with no optical drive (and, Apple, an entirely new design? Hmm?), this next keynote is about their biggest seller. If Apple wants to sell any iMacs or Mac Minis this holiday season, they'll pop out refreshes (and, Apple, and entirely new design for the iMac? Hmm?) in October or something (with another keynote to, Apple, highlight the entirely new design for th—okay, I think we get it now ) after the iPhone hype dies down.
I see MAYBE an iPod nano update (actually hardware this time) alongside the iPhone, and if they're doing anything to the touch, now would be the time as well.
I chuckled at the thought that having no iPad mini would kick the stock down. That's funny.
And yeah, I'd love to see an Apple TV with NAiTL, but that's the only thing that would get me to buy one (I'd buy THREE), even IF they magically managed to complete all their deals in two months and completely revolutionize TV the same way they did music. Seriously, I want to be able to see my own previously-existing content without a computer on and iTunes open. I don't want it to require a computer at all beyond the initial setup of the files in iTunes Library format. In the post-PC world, you'd think Apple would be leading the charge on connecting a hard drive to an AirPort to view content over the network on an Apple TV… Allow any (allowed) computer on the network to manage the NAiTL just as it does the local iTunes Library, copy files, edit metadata and such, but don't force me to have iTunes open and a computer on to PLAY the stuff.
I think that if Apple ever support an itunes file structure outside itunes its going to be in there netdrive which is TimeCapsuled. They may come out with itune support in an external USB drive in Airport, but imo thats unlikely. I am overdue to upgrade my old D-link net drive and I am waiting on the next Time capsuled upgrade to do it. Have you ever tried "identify" to populate you're metadata? Its on the app store and its pretty good.
I was hoping on a imac refresh with no key notes prior to the iphone event, they need to do a refresh soon imo. The last one was more than a year ago right?
I was hoping on a imac refresh with no key notes prior to the iphone event, they need to do a refresh soon imo. The last one was more than a year ago right?
Yeah, it has been a good long while. I figure, hey, you're dropping the stupid ODD once and for all, maybe take a gander at ways that you could further improve the design as a whole instead of just making the stupid thing thinner. Who knows, they might come up with something that lets us have a desktop GPU for a change… Been since the G3 iMac that we haven't had one.
edit... while thinking about it... not exactly, because your loss can only the value of the loan...(if the shares as collateral are locked)whereas in true shorting (if the share prices increases) you owe amount of the shares shorted plus the delta value between the shorted value and the now value... so much for trite comments
Using the shares as collateral is nothing like shorting the stock. If the price goes down, you would have to give them more shares. If the price goes up, you are fine.
Generally there are limits on what percentage of current value can be offset with your loan. Maybe 50%? I don't really know. But you would get full share price appreciation, and if the investment ever goes south, you could make a decision as to whether you want to contribute more shares or pay down the loan.
If you sell immediately, and use the cash, you miss the upside.
No computers at the iPhone event. As much as I'd love to see an updated Mac Mini and updated iMac with no optical drive (and, Apple, an entirely new design? Hmm?), this next keynote is about their biggest seller. If Apple wants to sell any iMacs or Mac Minis this holiday season, they'll pop out refreshes (and, Apple, and entirely new design for the iMac? Hmm?) in October or something (with another keynote to, Apple, highlight the entirely new design for th—okay, I think we get it now ) after the iPhone hype dies down.
I see MAYBE an iPod nano update (actually hardware this time) alongside the iPhone, and if they're doing anything to the touch, now would be the time as well.
I chuckled at the thought that having no iPad mini would kick the stock down. That's funny.
And yeah, I'd love to see an Apple TV with NAiTL, but that's the only thing that would get me to buy one (I'd buy THREE), even IF they magically managed to complete all their deals in two months and completely revolutionize TV the same way they did music. Seriously, I want to be able to see my own previously-existing content without a computer on and iTunes open. I don't want it to require a computer at all beyond the initial setup of the files in iTunes Library format. In the post-PC world, you'd think Apple would be leading the charge on connecting a hard drive to an AirPort to view content over the network on an Apple TV… Allow any (allowed) computer on the network to manage the NAiTL just as it does the local iTunes Library, copy files, edit metadata and such, but don't force me to have iTunes open and a computer on to PLAY the stuff.
I think that if Apple ever support an itunes file structure outside itunes its going to be in there netdrive which is TimeCapsuled. They may come out with itune support in an external USB drive in Airport, but imo thats unlikely. I am overdue to upgrade my old D-link net drive and I am waiting on the next Time capsuled upgrade to do it. Have you ever tried "identify" to populate you're metadata? Its on the app store and its pretty good.
I was hoping on a imac refresh with no key notes prior to the iphone event, they need to do a refresh soon imo. The last one was more than a year ago right?
I, too am waiting for an iMac refresh (my BDay is the 29th) and we Virgos are anal about having the latest tech toys...
Actually, tomorrow or the 28th would be a good day for a soft rollout of a new iMac and a new FCP X.
Comments
The problem with AAPL as an investment is that there is never a good time to get out. I've been gradually accumulating shares since Jobs came back and it's been hugely profitable. But now I want to finish my basement or buy a car, and I'm loath to sell any of my AAPL shares because they are my best investment by far. The few times I have sold some shares to lock in my gains, I've just found myself buying more shares at a higher price a few months later.
Oh, the hardship of being a long-term AAPL investor :-)
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
Numbers are numbers. You can't make a valid comparison between numbers that have a lot of inflation between them, if comparing them in current dollars vs old dollars.
Personally, I think less about inflation and the general mood of the markets In 2000, MSFT was riding 10 years of great news, a president and a congress that balanced the budget, a president that kept us out of wars and therefore a peacetime economy, and the naive invention of 'outsourcing' (which arguably increased [U.S.] worker productivity numbers) and the unlimited 'invention' of the Internet. Then came:
The DotComBomb
Sept 11
Afghanistan War
WMDs and the Iraq War
Peak Oil (oil becomes a strategic [we fight for it] asset)
Bush Tax cuts as a stimulus (sort of)
The globalization of the consumer market (China sneezes, US catches pneumonia)
The Real Estate Bubble Bursting
the Credit Default Swaps debacle
Bank Bailouts as a stimulus (not)
Automotive Bailouts as a stimulus (sort of)
The Global economic Crisis (Greece)
Iran/Israel sabre rattling
Arab Spring and Libya, Egypt, and Syria destabalizing Middle East (see peak oil, and Israel/Iran above).
China moving from 2nd world to 1st World power
China running a inflationary economy
The Internet as a means to instigate a Cyber cold war
So in 2012, the fact that any large consumer product company is growing in consumer perception of value, is amazing.
Eliminate any 4 of the above, and Apple would be worth a heckuva lot more than $800 Billion current money.
I found this interesting article on where it is going in price.
http://beta.fool.com/jaans/2012/08/18/understanding-apple-flash-new-high-where-it-going/9958/
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPT
Obviously, as many here points out, any valid comparison of the market cap has to be made in inflation adjusted currency. However, it should be noted that while MS P/E at the top was around 35, Apples P/E is currently around 15, which indicates a sounder economy with better earnings.
The P/E is indeed a very important stat to take into account. Apple market cap may be high, but its valuation is still outstanding. Its the first time we have a company with both a huge market cap and good valuation. In fact, if apple would be a small company, its growth potential would probably make it have a multiple of 20+ This is where the law of large numbers takes effect, it keeps Apple stock price in check with earnings.
Given the january 2012 monster earnings, its possible investors are going to drive the stock up and expand the PE prior to january 2013 earnings. But make no mistake, Apple will need to deliver in january because the stock will come back down to a more normal PE or 14 or 15 regardless of what the estimates were.
But if Apple delivers good earnings in january, the TTM EPS will rise and Apple may hold its stock price while compressing its PE back to 14. That would be very good news. If everything is goes well Apple may rise to 800$ and hold it through jan 2013 earnings. Apple need a TTM EPS of 55$ in january to hold a stock price of 800$. To get that TTM EPS Apple will need to report a jan 2013 EPS of 16$ or more. Watch the guidance in october, if apple guide 12$ or more we are golden.
Originally Posted by herbapou
If Apple devivers on the rumor of a 6th iPhone that start selling in september and an iPad mini I don't think there will be a sell of "on the news" But if there is no iPad mini there is will be a sell off. On the TV side, if we get something more than the usual Apple TV upgrade its more in favor on the upside. Hoping to finally get AppleTV apps this time.
The small wildcard will be the imac upgrades. When do you guys think it will happen?
No computers at the iPhone event. As much as I'd love to see an updated Mac Mini and updated iMac with no optical drive (and, Apple, an entirely new design? Hmm?), this next keynote is about their biggest seller. If Apple wants to sell any iMacs or Mac Minis this holiday season, they'll pop out refreshes (and, Apple, and entirely new design for the iMac? Hmm?) in October or something (with another keynote to, Apple, highlight the entirely new design for th—okay, I think we get it now
I see MAYBE an iPod nano update (actually hardware this time) alongside the iPhone, and if they're doing anything to the touch, now would be the time as well.
I chuckled at the thought that having no iPad mini would kick the stock down. That's funny.
And yeah, I'd love to see an Apple TV with NAiTL, but that's the only thing that would get me to buy one (I'd buy THREE), even IF they magically managed to complete all their deals in two months and completely revolutionize TV the same way they did music. Seriously, I want to be able to see my own previously-existing content without a computer on and iTunes open. I don't want it to require a computer at all beyond the initial setup of the files in iTunes Library format. In the post-PC world, you'd think Apple would be leading the charge on connecting a hard drive to an AirPort to view content over the network on an Apple TV… Allow any (allowed) computer on the network to manage the NAiTL just as it does the local iTunes Library, copy files, edit metadata and such, but don't force me to have iTunes open and a computer on to PLAY the stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by malax
But now I want to finish my basement or buy a car, and I'm loath to sell any of my AAPL shares because they are my best investment by far.
I know what you mean. I got out about 5 years ago to build a house. I have zero AAPL shares at this point. I still earned a huge profit from 2000. Oh well I enjoy my house everyday.
Quote:
Originally Posted by malax
The problem with AAPL as an investment is that there is never a good time to get out. I've been gradually accumulating shares since Jobs came back and it's been hugely profitable. But now I want to finish my basement or buy a car, and I'm loath to sell any of my AAPL shares because they are my best investment by far. The few times I have sold some shares to lock in my gains, I've just found myself buying more shares at a higher price a few months later.
Oh, the hardship of being a long-term AAPL investor :-)
Yes... this is a dilemma, as I think small caps are having the air sucked out of them by the behemoths,and globalization. Apple is trending high on my portfolio, but actually UnderArmor is higher/faster growth, and was ahead, literally until today. I need to redistribute as Apple is now 15% of my portfolio, and UnderArmor 8% (my suck*ss 401K mutual funds are lagging, and I need to quit my job to roll them over, which I hear isn't a good investment strategy [quit good job to micromanage your retirement accounts])
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
Best post so far!
;D
Quote:
Originally Posted by RPT
Obviously, as many here points out, any valid comparison of the market cap has to be made in inflation adjusted currency. However, it should be noted that while MS P/E at the top was around 35, Apples P/E is currently around 15, which indicates a sounder economy with better earnings.
I wouldn't use "sounder economy" but "conservative investment climate." The economy is not sound... Apple's financials are (no debt, good margins, earning more money than it can spend wisely, hence a dividend).
The fact that the Dividend is being offered will drive up demand, as AAPL now qualifies for Large Cap Income Investment Funds. And could potentially be in the Dow, although the argument is there is no 1 for 1 candidate replaceable companies that would make sense (Read: AAPL is too highly valued to be a Dow Candidate now... removing a 'dog' and adding Apple would overweight (multiplier of 5-10 over any dogs that are dying) it so much it would 'drive' or 'dive' the Dow too much on any single day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by malax
The problem with AAPL as an investment is that there is never a good time to get out. I've been gradually accumulating shares since Jobs came back and it's been hugely profitable. But now I want to finish my basement or buy a car, and I'm loath to sell any of my AAPL shares because they are my best investment by far. The few times I have sold some shares to lock in my gains, I've just found myself buying more shares at a higher price a few months later.
Oh, the hardship of being a long-term AAPL investor :-)
Use some of them as collateral against a loan. If the value goes up faster than the interest rate, you come out ahead.
Finish your basement if it will increase the value of your house. If you buy a car, be sure to calculate the depreciation in your figuring. Trading $30,000 worth of shares for a car could cost you $15,000 in lost share appreciation AND another $10,000 in car depreciation the first year. Second year might cost you $22,000 in lost stock appreciation plus another 5 or 7,000 in car depreciation.
Maybe you could use the dividend to pay for a loan? Then you keep all your shares and stretch the payments on the basement or the car.
I'd rather see you putting the money into a solid home project rather than a depreciating car.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrence22
Use some of them as collateral against a loan. If the value goes up faster than the interest rate, you come out ahead.
Finish your basement if it will increase the value of your house. If you buy a car, be sure to calculate the depreciation in your figuring. Trading $30,000 worth of shares for a car could cost you $15,000 in lost share appreciation AND another $10,000 in car depreciation the first year. Second year might cost you $22,000 in lost stock appreciation plus another 5 or 7,000 in car depreciation.
Maybe you could use the dividend to pay for a loan? Then you keep all your shares and stretch the payments on the basement or the car.
I'd rather see you putting the money into a solid home project rather than a depreciating car.
Good ole shorting the stock...
edit... while thinking about it... not exactly, because your loss can only be the value of the loan...(if the shares as collateral are locked) whereas in true shorting (if the share prices increases) you owe amount of the shares shorted plus the delta value between the shorted value and the now value...
so much for my trite comments
Interesting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Quote:
Originally Posted by malax
But now I want to finish my basement or buy a car, and I'm loath to sell any of my AAPL shares because they are my best investment by far.
I know what you mean. I got out about 5 years ago to build a house. I have zero AAPL shares at this point. I still earned a huge profit from 2000. Oh well I enjoy my house everyday.
Wow!
Who would have known... I bought my first 100 shares of AAPL in 2003 at $17. After increasing my AAPL holdings, I switched to a margin account and have been averaging up ever since. I bought some more today.
Though, AAPL will eventually dip (maybe this November) and the housing market will eventually revive... nothing is sure but death and taxes!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrence22
Use some of them as collateral against a loan. If the value goes up faster than the interest rate, you come out ahead.
Finish your basement if it will increase the value of your house. If you buy a car, be sure to calculate the depreciation in your figuring. Trading $30,000 worth of shares for a car could cost you $15,000 in lost share appreciation AND another $10,000 in car depreciation the first year. Second year might cost you $22,000 in lost stock appreciation plus another 5 or 7,000 in car depreciation.
Maybe you could use the dividend to pay for a loan? Then you keep all your shares and stretch the payments on the basement or the car.
I'd rather see you putting the money into a solid home project rather than a depreciating car.
Some of you guys are so silly. Cars are not investments. You really don't need to calculate them this way. They are sunken costs. Whether you're buying a new phone or car, they are expected to depreciate over time. Even if it's a rental car business, these things are marked down over time. The comparison makes no sense as you already know the outcome. In terms of stock, you can lock in gains when you decide to do so. Cashing out doesn't guarantee that you will lose out in the long term. This is just a determination of whether or not to spend money. Even with the basement, the increase in value is most likely incidental there. He would be finishing it out of desire for a finished basement. It gives me a headache whenever people add so much unnecessary abstraction to things which should already be entirely obvious.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
No computers at the iPhone event. As much as I'd love to see an updated Mac Mini and updated iMac with no optical drive (and, Apple, an entirely new design? Hmm?), this next keynote is about their biggest seller. If Apple wants to sell any iMacs or Mac Minis this holiday season, they'll pop out refreshes (and, Apple, and entirely new design for the iMac? Hmm?) in October or something (with another keynote to, Apple, highlight the entirely new design for th—okay, I think we get it now
I see MAYBE an iPod nano update (actually hardware this time) alongside the iPhone, and if they're doing anything to the touch, now would be the time as well.
I chuckled at the thought that having no iPad mini would kick the stock down. That's funny.
And yeah, I'd love to see an Apple TV with NAiTL, but that's the only thing that would get me to buy one (I'd buy THREE), even IF they magically managed to complete all their deals in two months and completely revolutionize TV the same way they did music. Seriously, I want to be able to see my own previously-existing content without a computer on and iTunes open. I don't want it to require a computer at all beyond the initial setup of the files in iTunes Library format. In the post-PC world, you'd think Apple would be leading the charge on connecting a hard drive to an AirPort to view content over the network on an Apple TV… Allow any (allowed) computer on the network to manage the NAiTL just as it does the local iTunes Library, copy files, edit metadata and such, but don't force me to have iTunes open and a computer on to PLAY the stuff.
I think that if Apple ever support an itunes file structure outside itunes its going to be in there netdrive which is TimeCapsuled. They may come out with itune support in an external USB drive in Airport, but imo thats unlikely. I am overdue to upgrade my old D-link net drive and I am waiting on the next Time capsuled upgrade to do it. Have you ever tried "identify" to populate you're metadata? Its on the app store and its pretty good.
I was hoping on a imac refresh with no key notes prior to the iphone event, they need to do a refresh soon imo. The last one was more than a year ago right?
Originally Posted by herbapou
I was hoping on a imac refresh with no key notes prior to the iphone event, they need to do a refresh soon imo. The last one was more than a year ago right?
Yeah, it has been a good long while. I figure, hey, you're dropping the stupid ODD once and for all, maybe take a gander at ways that you could further improve the design as a whole instead of just making the stupid thing thinner. Who knows, they might come up with something that lets us have a desktop GPU for a change… Been since the G3 iMac that we haven't had one.
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Originally Posted by haar
edit... while thinking about it... not exactly, because your loss can only the value of the loan...(if the shares as collateral are locked)whereas in true shorting (if the share prices increases) you owe amount of the shares shorted plus the delta value between the shorted value and the now value... so much for trite commentsGood ole shorting the stock...
Using the shares as collateral is nothing like shorting the stock. If the price goes down, you would have to give them more shares. If the price goes up, you are fine.
Generally there are limits on what percentage of current value can be offset with your loan. Maybe 50%? I don't really know. But you would get full share price appreciation, and if the investment ever goes south, you could make a decision as to whether you want to contribute more shares or pay down the loan.
If you sell immediately, and use the cash, you miss the upside.
Since this article is about Apple and Microsoft, this might be appropriate:
That's a 10.6" Surface tablet mapped bit for bit to a 9.7" iPad 3 Retina Display... in portrait mode!
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Just for fun, I mapped the pixel dimensions of a MS Surface onto the screen of an a new iPad.
For the nerds out there: That’s the surfaces 1366x768 display sizebordered in red, inside the iPad’s 2048x1536 display. And I’ve scaled the whole thing down so it more or less fits in a web browser.
http://yourhead.tumblr.com/post/25446320581/its-just-a-small-table
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Originally Posted by herbapou
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Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
No computers at the iPhone event. As much as I'd love to see an updated Mac Mini and updated iMac with no optical drive (and, Apple, an entirely new design? Hmm?), this next keynote is about their biggest seller. If Apple wants to sell any iMacs or Mac Minis this holiday season, they'll pop out refreshes (and, Apple, and entirely new design for the iMac? Hmm?) in October or something (with another keynote to, Apple, highlight the entirely new design for th—okay, I think we get it now
I see MAYBE an iPod nano update (actually hardware this time) alongside the iPhone, and if they're doing anything to the touch, now would be the time as well.
I chuckled at the thought that having no iPad mini would kick the stock down. That's funny.
And yeah, I'd love to see an Apple TV with NAiTL, but that's the only thing that would get me to buy one (I'd buy THREE), even IF they magically managed to complete all their deals in two months and completely revolutionize TV the same way they did music. Seriously, I want to be able to see my own previously-existing content without a computer on and iTunes open. I don't want it to require a computer at all beyond the initial setup of the files in iTunes Library format. In the post-PC world, you'd think Apple would be leading the charge on connecting a hard drive to an AirPort to view content over the network on an Apple TV… Allow any (allowed) computer on the network to manage the NAiTL just as it does the local iTunes Library, copy files, edit metadata and such, but don't force me to have iTunes open and a computer on to PLAY the stuff.
I think that if Apple ever support an itunes file structure outside itunes its going to be in there netdrive which is TimeCapsuled. They may come out with itune support in an external USB drive in Airport, but imo thats unlikely. I am overdue to upgrade my old D-link net drive and I am waiting on the next Time capsuled upgrade to do it. Have you ever tried "identify" to populate you're metadata? Its on the app store and its pretty good.
I was hoping on a imac refresh with no key notes prior to the iphone event, they need to do a refresh soon imo. The last one was more than a year ago right?
I, too am waiting for an iMac refresh (my BDay is the 29th) and we Virgos are anal about having the latest tech toys...
Actually, tomorrow or the 28th would be a good day for a soft rollout of a new iMac and a new FCP X.