You can defend apple as you will, but clearly there is an issue that is above normal levels. I will surely reply my experience here once I get my retina.
Really? So please tell us:
1. What are 'normal levels'?
2. What is the incidence rate for this problem you are referring to?
After all, if you are claiming that it's 'above normal levels', you must be able to answer both of those questions, right?
In reality, people complain about stuff all the time that ends up being very rare. Apple, in particular seems to suffer from bloggers making mountains out of molehills. I wish I had a dollar for every time someone reported on some 'widespread' Apple problem - that ended up being a very rare event.
And it has nothing to do with 'defending Apple'. As I stated, if the screen doesn't work as it should, you should definitely take it back. So how is that defending Apple?
I'm sure there is some exaggeration in the truth, as i thought happened with the iPhone 4, but the iPhone is 200 not 2500 (at least through a carrier)
Great example. You thought it happened with the iPhone 4 - yet were apparently unable to confirm it - and no one else has reported on such a problem. That's the problem with these anecdotal complaints - there's no way to verify their accuracy.
The language is just fine, if the laptop screen is retaining an image within just 20 minutes, i'm sure it'll get to the point where it is permanent(or at least seem like it). CRTs aren't even that crappy.
No, it's not. 'Burn in' is permanent damage to a display. The complaints that you're referring to go away after a few minutes. There's absolutely no sign that it's permanent.
Really? So please tell us:
1. What are 'normal levels'?
2. What is the incidence rate for this problem you are referring to?
After all, if you are claiming that it's 'above normal levels', you must be able to answer both of those questions, right?
In reality, people complain about stuff all the time that ends up being very rare. Apple, in particular seems to suffer from bloggers making mountains out of molehills. I wish I had a dollar for every time someone reported on some 'widespread' Apple problem - that ended up being a very rare event.
And it has nothing to do with 'defending Apple'. As I stated, if the screen doesn't work as it should, you should definitely take it back. So how is that defending Apple?
Great example. You thought it happened with the iPhone 4 - yet were apparently unable to confirm it - and no one else has reported on such a problem. That's the problem with these anecdotal complaints - there's no way to verify their accuracy.
No, it's not. 'Burn in' is permanent damage to a display. The complaints that you're referring to go away after a few minutes. There's absolutely no sign that it's permanent.
-The iPhone 4 certainly did not come out perfect and was a big enough problem to call for a public announcement directly from apple. (though I personally had no problem with my 4)
- given that a CRT doesn't burn in when in is brand new in 20 minutes, it is only safe to assume the retina display will with enough time. Given that it is 2500, well, it's an assumption I will make.
- I understand there are a lot of apple haters out there but when you go to the apple store and find 2 laptops that have the issue. Well yea. Enough said.
The problem has attracted enough attention for me to be concern about my 2500 purchase. Being a college student, that's almost all of my excess money.
But i am an apple fan and it seems like even when the LG displays work. They are very subpar to the Samsung lcds. Which makes me wonder why I paid 2500 for consistency and excellency when I get neither.
But we will see, my status changed to "preparing for shipment". I hope for apples sake, they gave me a Samsung LCD. I hate samsung, but I want quality.
Really? So please tell us:
1. What are 'normal levels'?
2. What is the incidence rate for this problem you are referring to?
After all, if you are claiming that it's 'above normal levels', you must be able to answer both of those questions, right?
In reality, people complain about stuff all the time that ends up being very rare. Apple, in particular seems to suffer from bloggers making mountains out of molehills. I wish I had a dollar for every time someone reported on some 'widespread' Apple problem - that ended up being a very rare event.
And it has nothing to do with 'defending Apple'. As I stated, if the screen doesn't work as it should, you should definitely take it back. So how is that defending Apple?
Great example. You thought it happened with the iPhone 4 - yet were apparently unable to confirm it - and no one else has reported on such a problem. That's the problem with these anecdotal complaints - there's no way to verify their accuracy.
No, it's not. 'Burn in' is permanent damage to a display. The complaints that you're referring to go away after a few minutes. There's absolutely no sign that it's permanent.
One must also assume that you have no personal experience with the MacBook pro retina? As I have sat down with a few of them. And will have one shortly enough. (though for how long may be a question)
-The iPhone 4 certainly did not come out perfect and was a big enough problem to call for a public announcement directly from apple. (though I personally had no problem with my 4).
Another great example. All of the whining about the iPhone 4 was shown to be garbage. When tested by independent labs, the iPhone 4 had better reception than most of the competitor's phones - even when 'gripped'. Yet that didn't stop bloggers and whiners (most of whom didn't even own one) from acting like it was a major disaster - and here you are parroting the same nonsense.
- given that a CRT doesn't burn in when in is brand new in 20 minutes, it is only safe to assume the retina display will with enough time. Given that it is 2500, well, it's an assumption I will make. .
Or, maybe you could learn something about how displays work and the differences between a CRT and an LCD.
- I understand there are a lot of apple haters out there but when you go to the apple store and find 2 laptops that have the issue. Well yea. Enough said.
Yes, people who aren't capable of critical thinking always want to stop the discussion when they really don't have a point.
There are millions of rMBP owners out there who are happy with their laptops and it has widely been reported as the best display on the market - by far. Now, there will be a very small percentage of lemons, and I told you how to deal with that. But you're suggesting that there's a massive problem that's so great that people should reconsider their decision to buy one - yet there's no evidence to back you up.
Once again, you said that the number of rejects was above normal levels. So please tell us:
1. What are 'normal levels'?
2. What is the incidence rate for this problem you are referring to?
After all, if you are claiming that it's 'above normal levels', you must be able to answer both of those questions, right?
Another great example. All of the whining about the iPhone 4 was shown to be garbage. When tested by independent labs, the iPhone 4 had better reception than most of the competitor's phones - even when 'gripped'. Yet that didn't stop bloggers and whiners (most of whom didn't even own one) from acting like it was a major disaster - and here you are parroting the same nonsense.
Or, maybe you could learn something about how displays work and the differences between a CRT and an LCD.
Yes, people who aren't capable of critical thinking always want to stop the discussion when they really don't have a point.
There are millions of rMBP owners out there who are happy with their laptops and it has widely been reported as the best display on the market - by far. Now, there will be a very small percentage of lemons, and I told you how to deal with that. But you're suggesting that there's a massive problem that's so great that people should reconsider their decision to buy one - yet there's no evidence to back you up.
Once again, you said that the number of rejects was above normal levels. So please tell us:
1. What are 'normal levels'?
2. What is the incidence rate for this problem you are referring to?
After all, if you are claiming that it's 'above normal levels', you must be able to answer both of those questions, right?
Given that 2 laptops on apples floor have the issue, thats not good. 2 out of 2. I know that is not a very wide testing base, but thats enough for me to be concerned. Because when my hard drive broke within 2 weeks of owning my current computer, the 2nd one did not go bad.
I understand the differences between a LCD and CRT but for 2500 dollars, its a safe assumption to say that it will get worse and permanent(which has been reported by those with issues). You also have to realize, that most people would not notice this issue. Its like having a scale that says your weight is 2 lbs heavier except you paid 400 bucks for a scale. Its not a big issue but not acceptable for the price paid.
And i PRAY i am wrong and all your "points" are correct, but there seems to be more issues than i am used to with a product from apple.
The iphone 4 has much better reception than the 3 (never used s GS) but there was certainly some level of an issue with the iphone (given why engineers used a modified setup with the 4s) additionally, steve made apple look stupid by "you are holding it wrong"
Anyway, you won't convince me that this is a few lemons because of the 2 out of 2 but i'll wait to get my retina and let you know how that goes
Given that 2 laptops on apples floor have the issue, thats not good. 2 out of 2. I know that is not a very wide testing base, but thats enough for me to be concerned. Because when my hard drive broke within 2 weeks of owning my current computer, the 2nd one did not go bad.
You misspelled "2 out of the several million sold". Furthermore, how do you know they weren't messed up somehow while on display? Display computers take a real beating.
I'm still waiting for you to support your assertion that the failure rate was 'more than normal.'
I understand the differences between a LCD and CRT but for 2500 dollars, its a safe assumption to say that it will get worse and permanent(which has been reported by those with issues). You also have to realize, that most people would not notice this issue. Its like having a scale that says your weight is 2 lbs heavier except you paid 400 bucks for a scale. Its not a big issue but not acceptable for the price paid.
And i PRAY i am wrong and all your "points" are correct, but there seems to be more issues than i am used to with a product from apple.
The iphone 4 has much better reception than the 3 (never used s GS) but there was certainly some level of an issue with the iphone (given why engineers used a modified setup with the 4s) additionally, steve made apple look stupid by "you are holding it wrong"
Anyway, you won't convince me that this is a few lemons because of the 2 out of 2 but i'll wait to get my retina and let you know how that goes
IOW, you don't have any facts, just fearmongering. That's what I said.
3. Apple Stores have a money-back return policy. Buy the computer and take it home and if it has a problem, return it.
4. Buy the computer and take it home and if it has a problem, return it for warranty repair.
BTW, 'burn in' is not accurate. That phrase is used to describe permanent changes to the screen. That doesn't occur here - what a small number of people are complaining about is a temporary screen memory issue.
If you want to turn up white papers on the topic, the correct name to use would be "image persistence". One thing that is unfortunately not mentioned by many of these claims is that it's usually a temporary effect. Modern displays shouldn't have trouble with lasting image persistence. Some of the older ones did have potentially permanent issues. I've seen quite a few 24" imacs with this. It used to be a problem with a variety of lcd display brands. I haven't seen it so much in recent years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seankill
I pray it is a small amount of people. On the apple forums I see quiet a few. So i pray you are right.
Getting a quality product is a good reason to chose a product. Though the reason the dell didn't come close is people appear to be having trouble with the Wifi.
But for 2500, DAMN, it better work and work well.
I custom ordered it, for school. So it'll take about another week to get it. Then i have to test it (which i knew how). Then if it doesn't work I have to start school without a proper computer cause god knows how long a replacement will take. But we will see.
I really hope the display works properly (kinda just hoping for a samsung screen so i dont need to worry about it) Because I REALLY like the laptop. Its an awesome design. Oddly, the retina display was like 5th on my list of why i bought it.
The term burn in is good enough thats why it is in quotes
Your words indicate that you likely budgeted an uncomfortable amount. I really suggest against doing this. It's a much better idea to avoid the new shiny things and just buy a quality item that you can really afford. I've dropped thousands on computers and related peripherals many times. If one of them gets a big scratch a month later, I don't care. If it's a dent, that is likely to annoy me. It's just a matter of whether it affects functionality or structural integrity. If something simply looks scratched up, it doesn't matter to me as it's just a tool. When these things become too seductive, people budget well beyond their comfort levels. In the case of the rMBP, you should remember that Apple tries to push out new things that are not necessarily well tested as mass market technology. Making hundreds of thousands of these things is quite different from making prototypes. If this makes you nervous, the best suggestion would be not to buy a relatively new design. I tend to stick with what is stable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Really? So please tell us:
1. What are 'normal levels'?
2. What is the incidence rate for this problem you are referring to?
After all, if you are claiming that it's 'above normal levels', you must be able to answer both of those questions, right?
In reality, people complain about stuff all the time that ends up being very rare. Apple, in particular seems to suffer from bloggers making mountains out of molehills. I wish I had a dollar for every time someone reported on some 'widespread' Apple problem - that ended up being a very rare event.
And it has nothing to do with 'defending Apple'. As I stated, if the screen doesn't work as it should, you should definitely take it back. So how is that defending Apple?
Great example. You thought it happened with the iPhone 4 - yet were apparently unable to confirm it - and no one else has reported on such a problem. That's the problem with these anecdotal complaints - there's no way to verify their accuracy.
No, it's not. 'Burn in' is permanent damage to a display. The complaints that you're referring to go away after a few minutes. There's absolutely no sign that it's permanent.
Burn in is somewhat colloquial, but it may have come from the crt generation term "phosphor burn". There are a lot of weird assessments on these things from people who know nothing about displays. Comparing it to their iphones or anything of that sort is a bad idea. Neither should be considered a reference grade source.
If you want to turn up white papers on the topic, the correct name to use would be "image persistence". One thing that is unfortunately not mentioned by many of these claims is that it's usually a temporary effect. Modern displays shouldn't have trouble with lasting image persistence. Some of the older ones did have potentially permanent issues. I've seen quite a few 24" imacs with this. It used to be a problem with a variety of lcd display brands. I haven't seen it so much in recent years.
Your words indicate that you likely budgeted an uncomfortable amount. I really suggest against doing this. It's a much better idea to avoid the new shiny things and just buy a quality item that you can really afford. I've dropped thousands on computers and related peripherals many times. If one of them gets a big scratch a month later, I don't care. If it's a dent, that is likely to annoy me. It's just a matter of whether it affects functionality or structural integrity. If something simply looks scratched up, it doesn't matter to me as it's just a tool. When these things become too seductive, people budget well beyond their comfort levels. In the case of the rMBP, you should remember that Apple tries to push out new things that are not necessarily well tested as mass market technology. Making hundreds of thousands of these things is quite different from making prototypes. If this makes you nervous, the best suggestion would be not to buy a relatively new design. I tend to stick with what is stable.
Burn in is somewhat colloquial, but it may have come from the crt generation term "phosphor burn". There are a lot of weird assessments on these things from people who know nothing about displays. Comparing it to their iphones or anything of that sort is a bad idea. Neither should be considered a reference grade source.
You are 100% wrong and unaware of my money situation, i currently owe no one or no company a single dime and have plenty of money to stay on track to graduate debt free (due to scholarships, internships etc..) . I believe somewhere I noted that it was most of my EXCESS income, meaning I did not need it for school, car, etc....... But 2500 is a lot for a laptop and it best be the best. If the laptop wasn't working great for launch, then Apple should not put their name on it.
I ran the same test on my laptop that they are doing on the mackbook pro to determine if they retain their image, and my laptop ran it prefect(meaning no retention at all). Keep in mind, this is a 6+ year old dell laptop. So, being a PC, shouldn't it be subpar to the macbook pro?
Notice, I also said, it seems to me that the levels of issues seem higher than normal. Granted, I normally don't look into many Apple products except the iPad and iPhone. However, its like the assumption I made retaining to the dell PC that I considered getting over the macbook. A high amount of the reviews said that the computer had a wifi issue. Though, not everyone said that, there's clearly some issue that is fairly common that out of the box, this dell laptop has a wifi issue (though, i think that is a software issue with that pc).
In general, when you buy a fancy german car and pay a premium for it (which i will never do, even if i had 5 billion dollars), you expect it to be pretty damn good.
Anyway, my laptop is due to be in next tuesday or wednesday, which i won't be in town to get it until that wednesday anyway, on thursday, we all should return to this form and see what i can report. (hopefully that i got a samsung screen, but probably not)
You misspelled "2 out of the several million sold". Furthermore, how do you know they weren't messed up somehow while on display? Display computers take a real beating.
I'm still waiting for you to support your assertion that the failure rate was 'more than normal.'
IOW, you don't have any facts, just fearmongering. That's what I said.
Additionally: Reporting, even one from this very website:
sources and personal experience says: Macbook Pro Retinas shipped with a LG display have image retention issues. And it general, suck compared to a Samsung display.
You have to spend $3600 to get a $160 saving? You can just go to the Apple Educational Store and get $200 off for a Macbook Pro with Retina display. Starting at $1,999.
IIRC the Apple educational discounts aren't cash back. Last I checked they were all just against future App store, iTunes and etc purchases. Best Buy has a legit student discount (just enter .edu email, get coupon and show up at store with ID) that works. Given that the BB prices are completely in line with the rest, it's a good deal.
MacMall I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole. Used to use them decades ago and gave them a few more chances a few years ago with horrible results (used and re-shrink wrapped sold as new), stuff that didn't ship and then went out of stock, etc etc. My personal experience with them has been awful and done.
IIRC the Apple educational discounts aren't cash back. Last I checked they were all just against future App store, iTunes and etc purchases. Best Buy has a legit student discount (just enter .edu email, get coupon and show up at store with ID) that works. Given that the BB prices are completely in line with the rest, it's a good deal.
MacMall I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole. Used to use them decades ago and gave them a few more chances a few years ago with horrible results (used and re-shrink wrapped sold as new), stuff that didn't ship and then went out of stock, etc etc. My personal experience with them has been awful and done.
On my retina. Well, the laptop that I ordered, they took 200 off the model, upgrades were cheaper and I got a 100 dollar gift card.
Saved 220 because of education discount and got 100 gft card
On my retina. Well, the laptop that I ordered, they took 200 off the model, upgrades were cheaper and I got a 100 dollar gift card.
Saved 220 because of education discount and got 100 gft card
And if you have any issues at all you can bring it to any Apple Store and if it's the kind of thing you can demonstrate it'll be dealt with then and there, no denying that the sky is blue and all that. If you had bought from MacMall and had an obvious, glaring legit issue you'd be SOOL.
You are 100% wrong and unaware of my money situation, i currently owe no one or no company a single dime and have plenty of money to stay on track to graduate debt free (due to scholarships, internships etc..) . I believe somewhere I noted that it was most of my EXCESS income, meaning I did not need it for school, car, etc....... But 2500 is a lot for a laptop and it best be the best. If the laptop wasn't working great for launch, then Apple should not put their name on it.
I ran the same test on my laptop that they are doing on the mackbook pro to determine if they retain their image, and my laptop ran it prefect(meaning no retention at all). Keep in mind, this is a 6+ year old dell laptop. So, being a PC, shouldn't it be subpar to the macbook pro?
Notice, I also said, it seems to me that the levels of issues seem higher than normal. Granted, I normally don't look into many Apple products except the iPad and iPhone. However, its like the assumption I made retaining to the dell PC that I considered getting over the macbook. A high amount of the reviews said that the computer had a wifi issue. Though, not everyone said that, there's clearly some issue that is fairly common that out of the box, this dell laptop has a wifi issue (though, i think that is a software issue with that pc).
In general, when you buy a fancy german car and pay a premium for it (which i will never do, even if i had 5 billion dollars), you expect it to be pretty damn good.
Anyway, my laptop is due to be in next tuesday or wednesday, which i won't be in town to get it until that wednesday anyway, on thursday, we all should return to this form and see what i can report. (hopefully that i got a samsung screen, but probably not)
I'm not sure I worded that very well. It's often more an issue of what you're comfortable spending on such a machine rather than what you can afford. I also agree that it's a lot to drop on a notebook. I didn't buy one. Regarding PCs, you are drinking the kool-aid there. There is nothing inherently inferior. You can spend a lot on a Windows PC or a Mac. There's nothing to say one must break prior to the other. In terms of Dell specifically, they have some okay products if you don't bother looking at their low end.
I'm not sure I worded that very well. It's often more an issue of what you're comfortable spending on such a machine rather than what you can afford. I also agree that it's a lot to drop on a notebook. I didn't buy one. Regarding PCs, you are drinking the kool-aid there. There is nothing inherently inferior. You can spend a lot on a Windows PC or a Mac. There's nothing to say one must break prior to the other. In terms of Dell specifically, they have some okay products if you don't bother looking at their low end.
I hope your next one turns out better.
You seem to be very rational with your views and words. (just a compliment)
I love my current dell. And have not gotten my retina yet.
I am comfortable with spending such money; however, if I buy a German car, I expect the premium to be worth it
You seem to be very rational with your views and words. (just a compliment)
I love my current dell. And have not gotten my retina yet.
I am comfortable with spending such money; however, if I buy a German car, I expect the premium to be worth it
Ordered it online via apple
Past experience makes me not want first generation products. Much of this for Apple is trying to get the latest thing out ahead of everyone else. The rMBP and possibly the inclusion of usb3 do quite a lot to prop up an otherwise potentially slow year in tech updates. If you look at Ivy Bridge, the jump is nowhere near what we saw with Sandy. The biggest gains are at the level of the 13" pro and air where integrated graphics are the only option and the clock speed bumps were noticeable. At the quad core level the overall core count was kept the same with the process shrink and the space gained was largely allocated to integrated graphics, even though these models are less dependent on them. I don't see this changing too much either in the next couple years. Even if programming allowed tasks to further be split up among discrete and integrated gpus, the macbook pros hit a wall on power consumption relative to what the chargers can deliver.
Regarding German cars, AMGs are quite impressive in their construction. I find it fascinating how they plan out some of the blends and tertiary surfaces into something that can actually be manufactured. Anyway I hope your new computer is perfect.
Past experience makes me not want first generation products. Much of this for Apple is trying to get the latest thing out ahead of everyone else. The rMBP and possibly the inclusion of usb3 do quite a lot to prop up an otherwise potentially slow year in tech updates. If you look at Ivy Bridge, the jump is nowhere near what we saw with Sandy. The biggest gains are at the level of the 13" pro and air where integrated graphics are the only option and the clock speed bumps were noticeable. At the quad core level the overall core count was kept the same with the process shrink and the space gained was largely allocated to integrated graphics, even though these models are less dependent on them. I don't see this changing too much either in the next couple years. Even if programming allowed tasks to further be split up among discrete and integrated gpus, the macbook pros hit a wall on power consumption relative to what the chargers can deliver.
Regarding German cars, AMGs are quite impressive in their construction. I find it fascinating how they plan out some of the blends and tertiary surfaces into something that can actually be manufactured. Anyway I hope your new computer is perfect.
I agree, the only thing that Ivy bridge may do is save power for a laptop but benchmarks show little improvement in speed, except like you said GPU.
Apple put their name on it, so something as bad as that shouldn't slip QC. (Assuming the problem is a little bigger than normal, but i could be wrong)
I hope mine is prefect too, i love the design of the laptop and the retina display is pretty cool
I agree, the only thing that Ivy bridge may do is save power for a laptop but benchmarks show little improvement in speed, except like you said GPU.
Apple put their name on it, so something as bad as that shouldn't slip QC. (Assuming the problem is a little bigger than normal, but i could be wrong)
I hope mine is prefect too, i love the design of the laptop and the retina display is pretty cool
Displays are not a strong point for Apple. While some on this site like to deny it, they've always been hit and miss, and I've never really counted on getting a perfect one. If it's actually bad, I'll send it back. Looking at my current notebook that I've had for a while, I can definitely see unevenness toward the bottom with a black screen if the ambient light is dark enough. I don't really care. The notebook display isn't suitable for a lot of things anyway, and you only really see it if you're viewing a near black screen in a very dark room. As an example if you were watching a movie on it in a very dark room, you might see some unevenness around the black bars. Even if it bothered me and I took it in, trying to show that to the genius would be difficult.
Displays are not a strong point for Apple. While some on this site like to deny it, they've always been hit and miss, and I've never really counted on getting a perfect one. If it's actually bad, I'll send it back. Looking at my current notebook that I've had for a while, I can definitely see unevenness toward the bottom with a black screen if the ambient light is dark enough. I don't really care. The notebook display isn't suitable for a lot of things anyway, and you only really see it if you're viewing a near black screen in a very dark room. As an example if you were watching a movie on it in a very dark room, you might see some unevenness around the black bars. Even if it bothered me and I took it in, trying to show that to the genius would be difficult.
Well, at least you are honest.
I am currently typing on my macbook, first macbook, the screen looks great but i have yet to check for IR. With this hurricane coming in, its just not important enough ATM.
Comments
Really? So please tell us:
1. What are 'normal levels'?
2. What is the incidence rate for this problem you are referring to?
After all, if you are claiming that it's 'above normal levels', you must be able to answer both of those questions, right?
In reality, people complain about stuff all the time that ends up being very rare. Apple, in particular seems to suffer from bloggers making mountains out of molehills. I wish I had a dollar for every time someone reported on some 'widespread' Apple problem - that ended up being a very rare event.
And it has nothing to do with 'defending Apple'. As I stated, if the screen doesn't work as it should, you should definitely take it back. So how is that defending Apple?
Great example. You thought it happened with the iPhone 4 - yet were apparently unable to confirm it - and no one else has reported on such a problem. That's the problem with these anecdotal complaints - there's no way to verify their accuracy.
No, it's not. 'Burn in' is permanent damage to a display. The complaints that you're referring to go away after a few minutes. There's absolutely no sign that it's permanent.
-The iPhone 4 certainly did not come out perfect and was a big enough problem to call for a public announcement directly from apple. (though I personally had no problem with my 4)
- given that a CRT doesn't burn in when in is brand new in 20 minutes, it is only safe to assume the retina display will with enough time. Given that it is 2500, well, it's an assumption I will make.
- I understand there are a lot of apple haters out there but when you go to the apple store and find 2 laptops that have the issue. Well yea. Enough said.
The problem has attracted enough attention for me to be concern about my 2500 purchase. Being a college student, that's almost all of my excess money.
But i am an apple fan and it seems like even when the LG displays work. They are very subpar to the Samsung lcds. Which makes me wonder why I paid 2500 for consistency and excellency when I get neither.
But we will see, my status changed to "preparing for shipment". I hope for apples sake, they gave me a Samsung LCD. I hate samsung, but I want quality.
One must also assume that you have no personal experience with the MacBook pro retina? As I have sat down with a few of them. And will have one shortly enough. (though for how long may be a question)
Another great example. All of the whining about the iPhone 4 was shown to be garbage. When tested by independent labs, the iPhone 4 had better reception than most of the competitor's phones - even when 'gripped'. Yet that didn't stop bloggers and whiners (most of whom didn't even own one) from acting like it was a major disaster - and here you are parroting the same nonsense.
Or, maybe you could learn something about how displays work and the differences between a CRT and an LCD.
Yes, people who aren't capable of critical thinking always want to stop the discussion when they really don't have a point.
There are millions of rMBP owners out there who are happy with their laptops and it has widely been reported as the best display on the market - by far. Now, there will be a very small percentage of lemons, and I told you how to deal with that. But you're suggesting that there's a massive problem that's so great that people should reconsider their decision to buy one - yet there's no evidence to back you up.
Once again, you said that the number of rejects was above normal levels. So please tell us:
1. What are 'normal levels'?
2. What is the incidence rate for this problem you are referring to?
After all, if you are claiming that it's 'above normal levels', you must be able to answer both of those questions, right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Another great example. All of the whining about the iPhone 4 was shown to be garbage. When tested by independent labs, the iPhone 4 had better reception than most of the competitor's phones - even when 'gripped'. Yet that didn't stop bloggers and whiners (most of whom didn't even own one) from acting like it was a major disaster - and here you are parroting the same nonsense.
Or, maybe you could learn something about how displays work and the differences between a CRT and an LCD.
Yes, people who aren't capable of critical thinking always want to stop the discussion when they really don't have a point.
There are millions of rMBP owners out there who are happy with their laptops and it has widely been reported as the best display on the market - by far. Now, there will be a very small percentage of lemons, and I told you how to deal with that. But you're suggesting that there's a massive problem that's so great that people should reconsider their decision to buy one - yet there's no evidence to back you up.
Once again, you said that the number of rejects was above normal levels. So please tell us:
1. What are 'normal levels'?
2. What is the incidence rate for this problem you are referring to?
After all, if you are claiming that it's 'above normal levels', you must be able to answer both of those questions, right?
Given that 2 laptops on apples floor have the issue, thats not good. 2 out of 2. I know that is not a very wide testing base, but thats enough for me to be concerned. Because when my hard drive broke within 2 weeks of owning my current computer, the 2nd one did not go bad.
I understand the differences between a LCD and CRT but for 2500 dollars, its a safe assumption to say that it will get worse and permanent(which has been reported by those with issues). You also have to realize, that most people would not notice this issue. Its like having a scale that says your weight is 2 lbs heavier except you paid 400 bucks for a scale. Its not a big issue but not acceptable for the price paid.
And i PRAY i am wrong and all your "points" are correct, but there seems to be more issues than i am used to with a product from apple.
The iphone 4 has much better reception than the 3 (never used s GS) but there was certainly some level of an issue with the iphone (given why engineers used a modified setup with the 4s) additionally, steve made apple look stupid by "you are holding it wrong"
Anyway, you won't convince me that this is a few lemons because of the 2 out of 2 but i'll wait to get my retina and let you know how that goes
You misspelled "2 out of the several million sold". Furthermore, how do you know they weren't messed up somehow while on display? Display computers take a real beating.
I'm still waiting for you to support your assertion that the failure rate was 'more than normal.'
IOW, you don't have any facts, just fearmongering. That's what I said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Seems like a silly reason to choose a computer platform. There are plenty of alternatives:
1. Ask to open the computer when you buy it and test it. If it has image retention, ask for another.
2. This site tells you how to identify the source of the display:
http://tengize.wordpress.com/2012/08/18/macbook-pro-with-retina-display-owners-suffer-from-burn-in-markings/
Ask to do so at time of purchase.
3. Apple Stores have a money-back return policy. Buy the computer and take it home and if it has a problem, return it.
4. Buy the computer and take it home and if it has a problem, return it for warranty repair.
BTW, 'burn in' is not accurate. That phrase is used to describe permanent changes to the screen. That doesn't occur here - what a small number of people are complaining about is a temporary screen memory issue.
If you want to turn up white papers on the topic, the correct name to use would be "image persistence". One thing that is unfortunately not mentioned by many of these claims is that it's usually a temporary effect. Modern displays shouldn't have trouble with lasting image persistence. Some of the older ones did have potentially permanent issues. I've seen quite a few 24" imacs with this. It used to be a problem with a variety of lcd display brands. I haven't seen it so much in recent years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seankill
I pray it is a small amount of people. On the apple forums I see quiet a few. So i pray you are right.
Getting a quality product is a good reason to chose a product. Though the reason the dell didn't come close is people appear to be having trouble with the Wifi.
But for 2500, DAMN, it better work and work well.
I custom ordered it, for school. So it'll take about another week to get it. Then i have to test it (which i knew how). Then if it doesn't work I have to start school without a proper computer cause god knows how long a replacement will take. But we will see.
I really hope the display works properly (kinda just hoping for a samsung screen so i dont need to worry about it) Because I REALLY like the laptop. Its an awesome design. Oddly, the retina display was like 5th on my list of why i bought it.
The term burn in is good enough thats why it is in quotes
Your words indicate that you likely budgeted an uncomfortable amount. I really suggest against doing this. It's a much better idea to avoid the new shiny things and just buy a quality item that you can really afford. I've dropped thousands on computers and related peripherals many times. If one of them gets a big scratch a month later, I don't care. If it's a dent, that is likely to annoy me. It's just a matter of whether it affects functionality or structural integrity. If something simply looks scratched up, it doesn't matter to me as it's just a tool. When these things become too seductive, people budget well beyond their comfort levels. In the case of the rMBP, you should remember that Apple tries to push out new things that are not necessarily well tested as mass market technology. Making hundreds of thousands of these things is quite different from making prototypes. If this makes you nervous, the best suggestion would be not to buy a relatively new design. I tend to stick with what is stable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Really? So please tell us:
1. What are 'normal levels'?
2. What is the incidence rate for this problem you are referring to?
After all, if you are claiming that it's 'above normal levels', you must be able to answer both of those questions, right?
In reality, people complain about stuff all the time that ends up being very rare. Apple, in particular seems to suffer from bloggers making mountains out of molehills. I wish I had a dollar for every time someone reported on some 'widespread' Apple problem - that ended up being a very rare event.
And it has nothing to do with 'defending Apple'. As I stated, if the screen doesn't work as it should, you should definitely take it back. So how is that defending Apple?
Great example. You thought it happened with the iPhone 4 - yet were apparently unable to confirm it - and no one else has reported on such a problem. That's the problem with these anecdotal complaints - there's no way to verify their accuracy.
No, it's not. 'Burn in' is permanent damage to a display. The complaints that you're referring to go away after a few minutes. There's absolutely no sign that it's permanent.
Burn in is somewhat colloquial, but it may have come from the crt generation term "phosphor burn". There are a lot of weird assessments on these things from people who know nothing about displays. Comparing it to their iphones or anything of that sort is a bad idea. Neither should be considered a reference grade source.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm
If you want to turn up white papers on the topic, the correct name to use would be "image persistence". One thing that is unfortunately not mentioned by many of these claims is that it's usually a temporary effect. Modern displays shouldn't have trouble with lasting image persistence. Some of the older ones did have potentially permanent issues. I've seen quite a few 24" imacs with this. It used to be a problem with a variety of lcd display brands. I haven't seen it so much in recent years.
Your words indicate that you likely budgeted an uncomfortable amount. I really suggest against doing this. It's a much better idea to avoid the new shiny things and just buy a quality item that you can really afford. I've dropped thousands on computers and related peripherals many times. If one of them gets a big scratch a month later, I don't care. If it's a dent, that is likely to annoy me. It's just a matter of whether it affects functionality or structural integrity. If something simply looks scratched up, it doesn't matter to me as it's just a tool. When these things become too seductive, people budget well beyond their comfort levels. In the case of the rMBP, you should remember that Apple tries to push out new things that are not necessarily well tested as mass market technology. Making hundreds of thousands of these things is quite different from making prototypes. If this makes you nervous, the best suggestion would be not to buy a relatively new design. I tend to stick with what is stable.
Burn in is somewhat colloquial, but it may have come from the crt generation term "phosphor burn". There are a lot of weird assessments on these things from people who know nothing about displays. Comparing it to their iphones or anything of that sort is a bad idea. Neither should be considered a reference grade source.
You are 100% wrong and unaware of my money situation, i currently owe no one or no company a single dime and have plenty of money to stay on track to graduate debt free (due to scholarships, internships etc..) . I believe somewhere I noted that it was most of my EXCESS income, meaning I did not need it for school, car, etc....... But 2500 is a lot for a laptop and it best be the best. If the laptop wasn't working great for launch, then Apple should not put their name on it.
I ran the same test on my laptop that they are doing on the mackbook pro to determine if they retain their image, and my laptop ran it prefect(meaning no retention at all). Keep in mind, this is a 6+ year old dell laptop. So, being a PC, shouldn't it be subpar to the macbook pro?
Notice, I also said, it seems to me that the levels of issues seem higher than normal. Granted, I normally don't look into many Apple products except the iPad and iPhone. However, its like the assumption I made retaining to the dell PC that I considered getting over the macbook. A high amount of the reviews said that the computer had a wifi issue. Though, not everyone said that, there's clearly some issue that is fairly common that out of the box, this dell laptop has a wifi issue (though, i think that is a software issue with that pc).
In general, when you buy a fancy german car and pay a premium for it (which i will never do, even if i had 5 billion dollars), you expect it to be pretty damn good.
Anyway, my laptop is due to be in next tuesday or wednesday, which i won't be in town to get it until that wednesday anyway, on thursday, we all should return to this form and see what i can report. (hopefully that i got a samsung screen, but probably not)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
You misspelled "2 out of the several million sold". Furthermore, how do you know they weren't messed up somehow while on display? Display computers take a real beating.
I'm still waiting for you to support your assertion that the failure rate was 'more than normal.'
IOW, you don't have any facts, just fearmongering. That's what I said.
Additionally: Reporting, even one from this very website:
http://www.extremetech.com/computing/134985-apples-new-retina-display-dogged-by-image-retention-increasingly-unhappy-users#disqus_thread
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2406360,00.asp
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/12/06/25/retina_display_image_retention_reported_by_new_macbook_pro_owners.html
http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/27/some-retina-macbook-pro-users-experiencing-display-ghosting/
So, there you go.
sources and personal experience says: Macbook Pro Retinas shipped with a LG display have image retention issues. And it general, suck compared to a Samsung display.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewan
You have to spend $3600 to get a $160 saving? You can just go to the Apple Educational Store and get $200 off for a Macbook Pro with Retina display. Starting at $1,999.
http://store.apple.com/us-hed/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macbook_pro/select
IIRC the Apple educational discounts aren't cash back. Last I checked they were all just against future App store, iTunes and etc purchases. Best Buy has a legit student discount (just enter .edu email, get coupon and show up at store with ID) that works. Given that the BB prices are completely in line with the rest, it's a good deal.
MacMall I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole. Used to use them decades ago and gave them a few more chances a few years ago with horrible results (used and re-shrink wrapped sold as new), stuff that didn't ship and then went out of stock, etc etc. My personal experience with them has been awful and done.
On my retina. Well, the laptop that I ordered, they took 200 off the model, upgrades were cheaper and I got a 100 dollar gift card.
Saved 220 because of education discount and got 100 gft card
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seankill
On my retina. Well, the laptop that I ordered, they took 200 off the model, upgrades were cheaper and I got a 100 dollar gift card.
Saved 220 because of education discount and got 100 gft card
And if you have any issues at all you can bring it to any Apple Store and if it's the kind of thing you can demonstrate it'll be dealt with then and there, no denying that the sky is blue and all that. If you had bought from MacMall and had an obvious, glaring legit issue you'd be SOOL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seankill
You are 100% wrong and unaware of my money situation, i currently owe no one or no company a single dime and have plenty of money to stay on track to graduate debt free (due to scholarships, internships etc..) . I believe somewhere I noted that it was most of my EXCESS income, meaning I did not need it for school, car, etc....... But 2500 is a lot for a laptop and it best be the best. If the laptop wasn't working great for launch, then Apple should not put their name on it.
I ran the same test on my laptop that they are doing on the mackbook pro to determine if they retain their image, and my laptop ran it prefect(meaning no retention at all). Keep in mind, this is a 6+ year old dell laptop. So, being a PC, shouldn't it be subpar to the macbook pro?
Notice, I also said, it seems to me that the levels of issues seem higher than normal. Granted, I normally don't look into many Apple products except the iPad and iPhone. However, its like the assumption I made retaining to the dell PC that I considered getting over the macbook. A high amount of the reviews said that the computer had a wifi issue. Though, not everyone said that, there's clearly some issue that is fairly common that out of the box, this dell laptop has a wifi issue (though, i think that is a software issue with that pc).
In general, when you buy a fancy german car and pay a premium for it (which i will never do, even if i had 5 billion dollars), you expect it to be pretty damn good.
Anyway, my laptop is due to be in next tuesday or wednesday, which i won't be in town to get it until that wednesday anyway, on thursday, we all should return to this form and see what i can report. (hopefully that i got a samsung screen, but probably not)
I'm not sure I worded that very well. It's often more an issue of what you're comfortable spending on such a machine rather than what you can afford. I also agree that it's a lot to drop on a notebook. I didn't buy one. Regarding PCs, you are drinking the kool-aid there. There is nothing inherently inferior. You can spend a lot on a Windows PC or a Mac. There's nothing to say one must break prior to the other. In terms of Dell specifically, they have some okay products if you don't bother looking at their low end.
I hope your next one turns out better.
You seem to be very rational with your views and words. (just a compliment)
I love my current dell. And have not gotten my retina yet.
I am comfortable with spending such money; however, if I buy a German car, I expect the premium to be worth it
Ordered it online via apple
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seankill
You seem to be very rational with your views and words. (just a compliment)
I love my current dell. And have not gotten my retina yet.
I am comfortable with spending such money; however, if I buy a German car, I expect the premium to be worth it
Ordered it online via apple
Past experience makes me not want first generation products. Much of this for Apple is trying to get the latest thing out ahead of everyone else. The rMBP and possibly the inclusion of usb3 do quite a lot to prop up an otherwise potentially slow year in tech updates. If you look at Ivy Bridge, the jump is nowhere near what we saw with Sandy. The biggest gains are at the level of the 13" pro and air where integrated graphics are the only option and the clock speed bumps were noticeable. At the quad core level the overall core count was kept the same with the process shrink and the space gained was largely allocated to integrated graphics, even though these models are less dependent on them. I don't see this changing too much either in the next couple years. Even if programming allowed tasks to further be split up among discrete and integrated gpus, the macbook pros hit a wall on power consumption relative to what the chargers can deliver.
Regarding German cars, AMGs are quite impressive in their construction. I find it fascinating how they plan out some of the blends and tertiary surfaces into something that can actually be manufactured. Anyway I hope your new computer is perfect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm
Past experience makes me not want first generation products. Much of this for Apple is trying to get the latest thing out ahead of everyone else. The rMBP and possibly the inclusion of usb3 do quite a lot to prop up an otherwise potentially slow year in tech updates. If you look at Ivy Bridge, the jump is nowhere near what we saw with Sandy. The biggest gains are at the level of the 13" pro and air where integrated graphics are the only option and the clock speed bumps were noticeable. At the quad core level the overall core count was kept the same with the process shrink and the space gained was largely allocated to integrated graphics, even though these models are less dependent on them. I don't see this changing too much either in the next couple years. Even if programming allowed tasks to further be split up among discrete and integrated gpus, the macbook pros hit a wall on power consumption relative to what the chargers can deliver.
Regarding German cars, AMGs are quite impressive in their construction. I find it fascinating how they plan out some of the blends and tertiary surfaces into something that can actually be manufactured. Anyway I hope your new computer is perfect.
I agree, the only thing that Ivy bridge may do is save power for a laptop but benchmarks show little improvement in speed, except like you said GPU.
Apple put their name on it, so something as bad as that shouldn't slip QC. (Assuming the problem is a little bigger than normal, but i could be wrong)
I hope mine is prefect too, i love the design of the laptop and the retina display is pretty cool
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seankill
I agree, the only thing that Ivy bridge may do is save power for a laptop but benchmarks show little improvement in speed, except like you said GPU.
Apple put their name on it, so something as bad as that shouldn't slip QC. (Assuming the problem is a little bigger than normal, but i could be wrong)
I hope mine is prefect too, i love the design of the laptop and the retina display is pretty cool
Displays are not a strong point for Apple. While some on this site like to deny it, they've always been hit and miss, and I've never really counted on getting a perfect one. If it's actually bad, I'll send it back. Looking at my current notebook that I've had for a while, I can definitely see unevenness toward the bottom with a black screen if the ambient light is dark enough. I don't really care. The notebook display isn't suitable for a lot of things anyway, and you only really see it if you're viewing a near black screen in a very dark room. As an example if you were watching a movie on it in a very dark room, you might see some unevenness around the black bars. Even if it bothered me and I took it in, trying to show that to the genius would be difficult.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmm
Displays are not a strong point for Apple. While some on this site like to deny it, they've always been hit and miss, and I've never really counted on getting a perfect one. If it's actually bad, I'll send it back. Looking at my current notebook that I've had for a while, I can definitely see unevenness toward the bottom with a black screen if the ambient light is dark enough. I don't really care. The notebook display isn't suitable for a lot of things anyway, and you only really see it if you're viewing a near black screen in a very dark room. As an example if you were watching a movie on it in a very dark room, you might see some unevenness around the black bars. Even if it bothered me and I took it in, trying to show that to the genius would be difficult.
Well, at least you are honest.
I am currently typing on my macbook, first macbook, the screen looks great but i have yet to check for IR. With this hurricane coming in, its just not important enough ATM.
I do like the computer though