Because "they started it", despite Apple not starting it.
Originally Posted by photoeditor
I am completely fed up with Apple's behavior. …patent trolling company… What, exactly, is Apple patenting? The stuff they're actually suing over, on the other hand, is abuse of the legal system. This is just another one of those things, rather like the serious possibility that we'll be disallowed from selling our second-hand imported electronics to others without manufacturer permission, that shows the patent system to have spiraled completely out of control.
Blah blah, lies about Apple, blah blah, the patent system is broken, blah blah, the legal system is broken, blah blah, I've never created anything worth protecting in my life…
Also,
I use Android, currently a Galaxy S3, as the iPhone has never met my needs; Apple was slow to get it up to a high-resolution display,
Complaining about Apple not having a high resolution display, yet buying a phone with a worse display than Apple's. Okay.
Originally Posted by anonymouse
You almost had us going there until that bit. Nice try. Next time, sweat the details.
He can't; he doesn't want Apple products anymore, so he doesn't get that mentality.
I come to this forum to see a multitude of people polarized on either side. Why cant anyone ever be in the middle gorund?
Color me in the middle. 4 iPhone's and 3 Android devices later, I've seen the best and worst they have to offer. I'm not at all open minded to Macs because I'm a gamer and, of course, PCs have much more to offer in that market but Apple hit on a winning formula with the iPhone. Samsung and others have ABSOLUTELY copied aspects of iOS and I don't necessarily have a problem with Apple going after infringers in court. However, I think Apple is being incredibly short sighted. Android manufacturers may copy aspects of iOS but they are also making huge strides into new technologies and improvements. Anyone who can't see that, beyond the basic UI, Apple has stayed behind the curve in advancements simply isn't being honest. That blanket claim that the fandroids make about every new improvement coming to iOS having been on Android for a year or two is true more often than not. Up 'till now Android has had performance issues that meant it wasn't generally as responsive as an iPhone (one Android that I own has horrible lag) but that won't last. Manufacturers are nearing the sweet spot in Android's true hardware requirements and, presumably, Google is designing each new ridiculously named OS to be more efficient. Android is here to stay and Apple needs to come to terms with it and try getting ahead of the curve again. As for patents, nobody owns enough patents to put out a successful cell phone that'll conform to existing standards. If Apple stays so short sighted and creates enough ill will, the courts may wind up being the last place they want to find themselves. If patent law was at all cut and dried, Apple would be cleaning up world wide right now. They're not.
How 'bout we color you "paying lip service to the middle". There is nothing of the 'middle' in your comments, other than some hand-waving intended to create an impression of "balance".
And, contrary to popular belief, not every issue has a middle. Not every story has two sides. And this is one of those.
Apple's choice is to a) use the courts to protect it's intellectual property from unscrupulous thieves like Samsung and Google or, b) sit back and watch them steal it and devalue Apple's products and brand. And that's not really a choice at all.
Apple's choice is to a) use the courts to protect it's intellectual property from unscrupulous thieves like Samsung and Google or, b) sit back and watch them steal it and devalue Apple's products and brand. And that's not really a choice at all.
There's no arguing your point there. That doesn't mean it's wise. You do know that Apple and Google are talking now right? Android's really not going anywhere. Even Apple pointed at an Android device that didn't infringe. Minor adjustments will get around the patents (only necessary in the U.S.) and it's business as usual. Do you really think after the adjustments are made Android sales will fall? So, the question is, what was gained? And what was potentially lost?
Minor adjustments will get around the patents (only necessary in the U.S.) and it's business as usual. Do you really think after the adjustments are made Android sales will fall? So, the question is, what was gained? And what was potentially lost?
Suppose Apple doesn't/will not fight patent theft. Ever.
Do you think Apple's sales will fall? What would be potentially lost? What would be gained?
There's no arguing your point there. That doesn't mean it's wise. You do know that Apple and Google are talking now right? Android's really not going anywhere. Even Apple pointed at an Android device that didn't infringe. Minor adjustments will get around the patents (only necessary in the U.S.) and it's business as usual. Do you really think after the adjustments are made Android sales will fall? So, the question is, what was gained? And what was potentially lost?
Well, actually, if there's no arguing the point, then there's no arguing the point that Apple's course of action is the only "wise" thing to do.
No one's talking about making sure, "Android sales will fail." The point is, if they do their own innovation, if they stop stealing from Apple, they are a) welcome to succeed, if they can do so on the strength of their own efforts, and b) consumers really will benefit from increased innovation, whereas all we have now is rampant copying.
The last point cannot be emphasized enough. Despite Samsung's disingenuous statements to the contrary, not a single consumer will experience less innovation as a result of these legal actions decided in Apple's favor. There will either, by necessity, be more innovation as Google, Samsung, et al. stop copying Apple OR there will be exactly the same amount of innovation if Google were to give up on Android. The latter isn't going to happen, but, since those are the only two possibilities, increased innovation is the guaranteed outcome of cases decided in Apple's favor.
Suppose Apple doesn't/will not fight patent theft. Ever.
Do you think Apple's sales will fall? What would be potentially lost? What would be gained?
Pick your battles. Samsung will probably make good on their threat to sue over the LTE patents they hold. Can anyone predict how any case will go in another country? So far, nobody outside the U.S. has been very receptive to Apple's claims. Samsung isn't the only company holding LTE patents or any of the other technologies that are considered standardized. Who can predict what a European or Asian court will consider fair use? Would Apple be talking to Google right now if not for the Moto patent portfolio?
Well, actually, if there's no arguing the point, then there's no arguing the point that Apple's course of action is the only "wise" thing to do.
No one's talking about making sure, "Android sales will fail." The point is, if they do their own innovation, if they stop stealing from Apple, they are a) welcome to succeed, if they can do so on the strength of their own efforts, and b) consumers really will benefit from increased innovation, whereas all we have now is rampant copying.
The last point cannot be emphasized enough. Despite Samsung's disingenuous statements to the contrary, not a single consumer will experience less innovation as a result of these legal actions decided in Apple's favor. There will either, by necessity, be more innovation as Google, Samsung, et al. stop copying Apple OR there will be exactly the same amount of innovation if Google were to give up on Android. The latter isn't going to happen, but, since those are the only two possibilities, increased innovation is the guaranteed outcome of cases decided in Apple's favor.
I agree with you. This won't limit choices. It will promote innovation. Hopefully some from Apple too.
Pick your battles. Samsung will probably make good on their threat to sue over the LTE patents they hold. Can anyone predict how any case will go in another country? So far, nobody outside the U.S. has been very receptive to Apple's claims. Samsung isn't the only company holding LTE patents or any of the other technologies that are considered standardized. Who can predict what a European or Asian court will consider fair use? Would Apple be talking to Google right now if not for the Moto patent portfolio?
Ah, to think that, for a moment, I thought you were actually beginning to make sense in your postings.
Ah, to think that, for a moment, I thought you were actually beginning to make sense in your postings.
Oh well, moving along.....
If you're not all in for Windows/Android/Apple or whatever.... nobody wants to hear from you. Hold this post for as long as you like. I'll not be back.
There's no arguing your point there. That doesn't mean it's wise. You do know that Apple and Google are talking now right? Android's really not going anywhere. Even Apple pointed at an Android device that didn't infringe. Minor adjustments will get around the patents (only necessary in the U.S.) and it's business as usual. Do you really think after the adjustments are made Android sales will fall? So, the question is, what was gained? And what was potentially lost?
If it's so trivial to get around the patents, why hasn't anyone done so? Some estimates say that Samsung spent well over $50 M on legal expenses for the California case (not counting the $1 B in fines). So why didn't they simply work around the patents if it was so easy?
The most likely scenario is that it's not as easy as you and all the other Samsung shills claim.
The other possibility is that even if they can work around the patents, they believe it will cost them more in lost sales than their paid shill army claims. Clearly, it would have SOME impact since so many Tab tablets were returned to Best Buy when people found out that they weren't iPads (by Samsung's own testimony).
So, again, if it's trivial to get around the patents and it wouldn't cost Samsung any business, why haven't they done so?
In the REAL world, though, there is ample evidence that Samsung's blatant copying was done intentionally with the hope of confusing the market and obtaining more sales than they would have otherwise. Their rapid growth in market share while all of the other competitors (who weren't as obvious about copying Apple) confirms that.
Google financially backed the initial developer of the software, Android Inc., and later purchased it in 2005.[8] The unveiling of the Android distribution in 2007 was announced with the founding of the Open Handset Alliance
ive had all the iphones and about 5 android phones ,and id rather have the freedom i have with my samsung galaxy s3 than be forced by apple how to have my phone any day .
i rest my case .
Did you really just compare the iPhone's unveiling to Android's classified development?
Pick your battles. Samsung will probably make good on their threat to sue over the LTE patents they hold. Can anyone predict how any case will go in another country? So far, nobody outside the U.S. has been very receptive to Apple's claims. Samsung isn't the only company holding LTE patents or any of the other technologies that are considered standardized. Who can predict what a European or Asian court will consider fair use? Would Apple be talking to Google right now if not for the Moto patent portfolio?
Only one country has shown a willingness to allow STANDARDS ESSENTIAL patents to prevail in a court case and that is South Korea.
Should we get rid of standards altogether, due to the litigious nature of some of the participants?
People complain about a "broken" patent system while ignoring a far more insidious threat the abuse of standards essential patents threatening the setting of standards.
The stuff they're actually suing over, on the other hand, is abuse of the legal system.
What abuse? Where?
If someone has a dispute or feel they've been wronged, they take the matter to court. That's why courts exist.
And for all the bleating about Apple "abusing" the "legal system", isn't it interesting that it's also the "legal system" that has decided Apple's case has merit? So much merit, in fact, that it supported Apple's claims to the tune of over a billion dollars.
In fact, this win shows it is incumbent upon Apple to pursue their claims further. It's in their best interests (and everyone's) to bring clarity to the question of exactly where everyone stands with their patents (or "alleged" patents.)
A lot of companies are already waking up to the fact that not all is well with their very cavalier activities in the market, that they have conveniently labeled "competition." Business-as-usual isn't good enough anymore. There's a serious problem with it. It took Apple to finally begin the process of house-cleaning in the industry.
At some point there has to be a reckoning. It's happening now. Those who can't hang with the game shouldn't get any sympathy from anyone.
You're assuming incorrectly that the click wheel was invented by Ive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
You know I've seen this picture million times and I still don't get it. Does anyone confuse an iPod with a Braun thermostat? They look nothing alike except they're both white. This Braun own a patent on the color white?
Good points. Furthermore, it's well documented that Ive didn't come up with the click wheel concept himself. It was Phil Schiller's idea. And he isn't quite the Braun devotee that Ive is.
Comments
Originally Posted by sibod
Why cant anyone ever be in the middle gorund?
Because "they started it", despite Apple not starting it.
Originally Posted by photoeditor
I am completely fed up with Apple's behavior. …patent trolling company… What, exactly, is Apple patenting? The stuff they're actually suing over, on the other hand, is abuse of the legal system. This is just another one of those things, rather like the serious possibility that we'll be disallowed from selling our second-hand imported electronics to others without manufacturer permission, that shows the patent system to have spiraled completely out of control.
Blah blah, lies about Apple, blah blah, the patent system is broken, blah blah, the legal system is broken, blah blah, I've never created anything worth protecting in my life…
Also,
I use Android, currently a Galaxy S3, as the iPhone has never met my needs; Apple was slow to get it up to a high-resolution display,
Complaining about Apple not having a high resolution display, yet buying a phone with a worse display than Apple's. Okay.
Originally Posted by anonymouse
You almost had us going there until that bit. Nice try. Next time, sweat the details.
He can't; he doesn't want Apple products anymore, so he doesn't get that mentality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by photoeditor
I am completely fed up with Apple's behavior. ...... As for smartphones, I use Android....
Bravo! You put your money where your mouth is. Good for you.
Now, go put your fingers to the keyboard where your product interest lies. Run along, to some fandroid forums.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by photoeditor
I am completely fed up with Apple's behavior.
Why? Are they suing *you*?
Apple's always been this way. They've always been very litigious and very aggressive about protecting their intellectual property.
It's just that today, infringement of Apple's IP is occurring on a grand scale. So naturally, Apple's response is far-reaching.
There's really nothing to see here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibod
I come to this forum to see a multitude of people polarized on either side. Why cant anyone ever be in the middle gorund?
Color me in the middle. 4 iPhone's and 3 Android devices later, I've seen the best and worst they have to offer. I'm not at all open minded to Macs because I'm a gamer and, of course, PCs have much more to offer in that market but Apple hit on a winning formula with the iPhone. Samsung and others have ABSOLUTELY copied aspects of iOS and I don't necessarily have a problem with Apple going after infringers in court. However, I think Apple is being incredibly short sighted. Android manufacturers may copy aspects of iOS but they are also making huge strides into new technologies and improvements. Anyone who can't see that, beyond the basic UI, Apple has stayed behind the curve in advancements simply isn't being honest. That blanket claim that the fandroids make about every new improvement coming to iOS having been on Android for a year or two is true more often than not. Up 'till now Android has had performance issues that meant it wasn't generally as responsive as an iPhone (one Android that I own has horrible lag) but that won't last. Manufacturers are nearing the sweet spot in Android's true hardware requirements and, presumably, Google is designing each new ridiculously named OS to be more efficient. Android is here to stay and Apple needs to come to terms with it and try getting ahead of the curve again. As for patents, nobody owns enough patents to put out a successful cell phone that'll conform to existing standards. If Apple stays so short sighted and creates enough ill will, the courts may wind up being the last place they want to find themselves. If patent law was at all cut and dried, Apple would be cleaning up world wide right now. They're not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dvoraak
Color me in the middle. ...
How 'bout we color you "paying lip service to the middle". There is nothing of the 'middle' in your comments, other than some hand-waving intended to create an impression of "balance".
And, contrary to popular belief, not every issue has a middle. Not every story has two sides. And this is one of those.
Apple's choice is to a) use the courts to protect it's intellectual property from unscrupulous thieves like Samsung and Google or, b) sit back and watch them steal it and devalue Apple's products and brand. And that's not really a choice at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
Apple's choice is to a) use the courts to protect it's intellectual property from unscrupulous thieves like Samsung and Google or, b) sit back and watch them steal it and devalue Apple's products and brand. And that's not really a choice at all.
There's no arguing your point there. That doesn't mean it's wise. You do know that Apple and Google are talking now right? Android's really not going anywhere. Even Apple pointed at an Android device that didn't infringe. Minor adjustments will get around the patents (only necessary in the U.S.) and it's business as usual. Do you really think after the adjustments are made Android sales will fall? So, the question is, what was gained? And what was potentially lost?
All of the ignorant people who defend Samsung have chosen their path, and their path is one of ignorance and one that follows the dark side.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dvoraak
Minor adjustments will get around the patents (only necessary in the U.S.) and it's business as usual. Do you really think after the adjustments are made Android sales will fall? So, the question is, what was gained? And what was potentially lost?
Suppose Apple doesn't/will not fight patent theft. Ever.
Do you think Apple's sales will fall? What would be potentially lost? What would be gained?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dvoraak
There's no arguing your point there. That doesn't mean it's wise. You do know that Apple and Google are talking now right? Android's really not going anywhere. Even Apple pointed at an Android device that didn't infringe. Minor adjustments will get around the patents (only necessary in the U.S.) and it's business as usual. Do you really think after the adjustments are made Android sales will fall? So, the question is, what was gained? And what was potentially lost?
Well, actually, if there's no arguing the point, then there's no arguing the point that Apple's course of action is the only "wise" thing to do.
No one's talking about making sure, "Android sales will fail." The point is, if they do their own innovation, if they stop stealing from Apple, they are a) welcome to succeed, if they can do so on the strength of their own efforts, and b) consumers really will benefit from increased innovation, whereas all we have now is rampant copying.
The last point cannot be emphasized enough. Despite Samsung's disingenuous statements to the contrary, not a single consumer will experience less innovation as a result of these legal actions decided in Apple's favor. There will either, by necessity, be more innovation as Google, Samsung, et al. stop copying Apple OR there will be exactly the same amount of innovation if Google were to give up on Android. The latter isn't going to happen, but, since those are the only two possibilities, increased innovation is the guaranteed outcome of cases decided in Apple's favor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
Suppose Apple doesn't/will not fight patent theft. Ever.
Do you think Apple's sales will fall? What would be potentially lost? What would be gained?
Pick your battles. Samsung will probably make good on their threat to sue over the LTE patents they hold. Can anyone predict how any case will go in another country? So far, nobody outside the U.S. has been very receptive to Apple's claims. Samsung isn't the only company holding LTE patents or any of the other technologies that are considered standardized. Who can predict what a European or Asian court will consider fair use? Would Apple be talking to Google right now if not for the Moto patent portfolio?
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
Well, actually, if there's no arguing the point, then there's no arguing the point that Apple's course of action is the only "wise" thing to do.
No one's talking about making sure, "Android sales will fail." The point is, if they do their own innovation, if they stop stealing from Apple, they are a) welcome to succeed, if they can do so on the strength of their own efforts, and b) consumers really will benefit from increased innovation, whereas all we have now is rampant copying.
The last point cannot be emphasized enough. Despite Samsung's disingenuous statements to the contrary, not a single consumer will experience less innovation as a result of these legal actions decided in Apple's favor. There will either, by necessity, be more innovation as Google, Samsung, et al. stop copying Apple OR there will be exactly the same amount of innovation if Google were to give up on Android. The latter isn't going to happen, but, since those are the only two possibilities, increased innovation is the guaranteed outcome of cases decided in Apple's favor.
I agree with you. This won't limit choices. It will promote innovation. Hopefully some from Apple too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dvoraak
Pick your battles. Samsung will probably make good on their threat to sue over the LTE patents they hold. Can anyone predict how any case will go in another country? So far, nobody outside the U.S. has been very receptive to Apple's claims. Samsung isn't the only company holding LTE patents or any of the other technologies that are considered standardized. Who can predict what a European or Asian court will consider fair use? Would Apple be talking to Google right now if not for the Moto patent portfolio?
Ah, to think that, for a moment, I thought you were actually beginning to make sense in your postings.
Oh well, moving along.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
Ah, to think that, for a moment, I thought you were actually beginning to make sense in your postings.
Oh well, moving along.....
If you're not all in for Windows/Android/Apple or whatever.... nobody wants to hear from you. Hold this post for as long as you like. I'll not be back.
If it's so trivial to get around the patents, why hasn't anyone done so? Some estimates say that Samsung spent well over $50 M on legal expenses for the California case (not counting the $1 B in fines). So why didn't they simply work around the patents if it was so easy?
The most likely scenario is that it's not as easy as you and all the other Samsung shills claim.
The other possibility is that even if they can work around the patents, they believe it will cost them more in lost sales than their paid shill army claims. Clearly, it would have SOME impact since so many Tab tablets were returned to Best Buy when people found out that they weren't iPads (by Samsung's own testimony).
So, again, if it's trivial to get around the patents and it wouldn't cost Samsung any business, why haven't they done so?
In the REAL world, though, there is ample evidence that Samsung's blatant copying was done intentionally with the hope of confusing the market and obtaining more sales than they would have otherwise. Their rapid growth in market share while all of the other competitors (who weren't as obvious about copying Apple) confirms that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sibod
As for my computer, I can no longer justify the Apple Premium, and instead am looking to buy a Windows machine instead.
I won't pay any premium. I'll just keep using my three year old MacBook, it's still working fine with Mountain Lion.
My two year old iPhone 4, I'll update as soon as a new iPhone comes out, I'm out of contract and ready to go, I wonder what the pricing will be like?
I'll update it to iOS 6 and sell it, I've already had offers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vitaminjayz
it says on wiki that android 1st developed 2005 and the 1st iphone came out in 2007
so looks like apple was the theives .
quotes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone
The first iPhone was unveiled by Steve Jobs, late CEO of Apple, on January 9, 2007,[1] and released on June 29, 2007
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_(operating_system)
Google financially backed the initial developer of the software, Android Inc., and later purchased it in 2005.[8] The unveiling of the Android distribution in 2007 was announced with the founding of the Open Handset Alliance
ive had all the iphones and about 5 android phones ,and id rather have the freedom i have with my samsung galaxy s3 than be forced by apple how to have my phone any day .
i rest my case .
Did you really just compare the iPhone's unveiling to Android's classified development?
Do you think things through before you post???
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dvoraak
Pick your battles. Samsung will probably make good on their threat to sue over the LTE patents they hold. Can anyone predict how any case will go in another country? So far, nobody outside the U.S. has been very receptive to Apple's claims. Samsung isn't the only company holding LTE patents or any of the other technologies that are considered standardized. Who can predict what a European or Asian court will consider fair use? Would Apple be talking to Google right now if not for the Moto patent portfolio?
Only one country has shown a willingness to allow STANDARDS ESSENTIAL patents to prevail in a court case and that is South Korea.
Should we get rid of standards altogether, due to the litigious nature of some of the participants?
People complain about a "broken" patent system while ignoring a far more insidious threat the abuse of standards essential patents threatening the setting of standards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dvoraak
Hold this post for as long as you like. I'll not be back, using this name.
There, fixed that for you...
Quote:
Originally Posted by photoeditor
The stuff they're actually suing over, on the other hand, is abuse of the legal system.
What abuse? Where?
If someone has a dispute or feel they've been wronged, they take the matter to court. That's why courts exist.
And for all the bleating about Apple "abusing" the "legal system", isn't it interesting that it's also the "legal system" that has decided Apple's case has merit? So much merit, in fact, that it supported Apple's claims to the tune of over a billion dollars.
In fact, this win shows it is incumbent upon Apple to pursue their claims further. It's in their best interests (and everyone's) to bring clarity to the question of exactly where everyone stands with their patents (or "alleged" patents.)
A lot of companies are already waking up to the fact that not all is well with their very cavalier activities in the market, that they have conveniently labeled "competition." Business-as-usual isn't good enough anymore. There's a serious problem with it. It took Apple to finally begin the process of house-cleaning in the industry.
At some point there has to be a reckoning. It's happening now. Those who can't hang with the game shouldn't get any sympathy from anyone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mocseg
I'm sure you all already know where a so called genius Jony Ivy inspiration comes from, but for me this was a complete game changer back in 2007.
http://gizmodo.com/343641/1960s-braun-products-hold-the-secrets-to-apples-future
You're assuming incorrectly that the click wheel was invented by Ive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan
You know I've seen this picture million times and I still don't get it. Does anyone confuse an iPod with a Braun thermostat? They look nothing alike except they're both white. This Braun own a patent on the color white?
Good points. Furthermore, it's well documented that Ive didn't come up with the click wheel concept himself. It was Phil Schiller's idea. And he isn't quite the Braun devotee that Ive is.