Apple and the whole nation in technology is a "third-world country." Eastern countries mostly have these technologies like couples of years ago. It seems America had been sleeping too long.
Basically yes. Google's version left a lot of security entries into the system. I'm not aware of any security flaws in iOS that would happen when someone scanned a barcode on the screen. There could be some, of course, but who know?
Hmm. I suppose they could implement the Authentec tech in, as well. Basically you just hold your phone up, place your finger on the reader, and the retailer scans the barcode, presto.
The minor benefit here is that people can no longer talk on their phones while checking out in stores :-)
...except on AT&T. I can see the commercials already...
People who live in major cities seem to think that everyone else has the same fancy stuff as them.
Not everyone lives in major cities. If fact, people who live in major cities are, well, the minority.
NFC is nowhere near ubiquitous outside of Asia and parts of Europe.
EDIT: By "major city" I'm not referring to urban areas or even standard major metropolitan areas. Instead I am referring generally to cities known world-wide like New York and Chicago. Not all cities are created equal. The one I live near doesn't even have a subway system and recently gained light-rail.
I really, really prefer Bluetooth 4 for NFC over some specialized hardware. You can't create a real revolution if you force the same workflow.
The entire article is a bit...weird, to me. I had to confirm that it's saying "hey, look, the barcode scan option is better than NFC, kids." I"m not saying I'd like NFC, I just think overall, NFC would be a safer option than a barcode. UNLESS there is additional security like the Authentec scanners, etc.
I do agree with the point that every retailer on the planet has the ability to scan barcodes (well, almost all I'm sure). So that's a pretty low hurdle to jump if you're wanting people to start using their phones to pay for purchases.
Guess we'll find out soon. Apple, send out that announcement already!
I wonder if passbook will still work if there's no data connection or GPS is unavailable. Does it kick in immediately when one approaches the destination? How will it work when checking out and one is deep inside the store and there's a paucity of signal and/or no wifi?
Seems like this will all take a loooong time to really happen, NFC or otherwise. But Apple’s the one to do it right, so get started! Have to start somewhere.
Utterly false. Globally more people now live in city/urban areas than rural.
In the US 62% of the population live in areas of 200k+ people.
I said major cities, not urban areas.
The city where I live outside of doesn't have ubiquitous NFC. Technically it's a major metropolitan area, but it's not a major city like New York, Chicago, etc.
The entire article is a bit...weird, to me. I had to confirm that it's saying "hey, look, the barcode scan option is better than NFC, kids." I"m not saying I'd like NFC, I just think overall, NFC would be a safer option than a barcode. UNLESS there is additional security like the Authentec scanners, etc.
I do agree with the point that every retailer on the planet has the ability to scan barcodes (well, almost all I'm sure). So that's a pretty low hurdle to jump if you're wanting people to start using their phones to pay for purchases.
Guess we'll find out soon. Apple, send out that announcement already!
Well hopefully when the new administration takes office next year much of the public transportation in the USA will be dismantled or at the very least people will be forced to pay their way on such systems. For the most part public transportation in the USA has been a failure often resulting in the wealthy being supported buy the poor. The whole idea is rather disgusting when you think about it.
As for NFC communications it wouldn't be the first technology that sees a bit of adoption before buring out because nobody wants to deal with it. I'm not one to support the fear mongers but there has yet to be a case made for NFC that addresses outstanding security issues, the need for even more hardware nor the fact that Bluetooth is built into most cell phones these days.
Folks there is nothing to imply that Apples devices will never have NFC, nor that NFC communications might not work with PassBook in the future. All apple is offering up here is a solution that doesn't require massive capital investments across the nation. Instead they are stepping into the game with a rather innovative solution to the chicken and egg problem.
How's that? They leverage existing technology to get acceptance off the ground. If a year or ten down the road NFC is widely used passbook simply gets an update and some new hardware gets built into Apples devices. The thing is Apples solution appears to be ready to go, and usable country wide right now.
I disagree there, with the exception of a few big box retailers with old or custom POS systems, those PayPass / NFC readers are everywhere, particularly in shops.
Not sure what that means. and as I already said many many places actually already do
Here in the UK there are a few food retailers (EAT, McDonalds etc) who have limited deployment of NFC, however most big retailers have yet to deploy anything. The UK has just been through deployment of Chip and Pin, something that the United States sorely lacks.
I have a Visa card with NFC, and an iPhone app that shows me where I can use them, in my local shopping centre (over 200 shops) less than 10 of them have NFC enabled kit at present. This is probably because of the £20 limit on use, which for goods that can range upto £5000, it's of no use the retailer investing in NFC kit, software changes etc, as it gives them no benefit.
Apple's lack of NFC although an inconvenience is not a show stopper as there are technologies like http://www.barclaycard.co.uk/personal/paytag/what-is-paytag which lets you put an NFC sticker on your phone, so you get the same NFC convenience of tapping your phone (however as it's external you dont get real control over it)
Agree. And if iPhone 5 contains NFC, On the 12th Cook will bring onstage one or more CEOs from major national retailers (Target? BestBuy? Staples?....) and announce that by the 21st their check-out stations will have the readers and back end to support it.
I don’t know much about NFC, but as a user, Square’s app seems like the future to me. I have the Square app on my phone, but I haven’t fired it up in a long time. Still, the donut shop down the street uses the square app too (an iPad is their cash register). I walked into their store, placed my order, and told them I was a Square user. They checked their iPad, and there was my profile photo. I didn’t have to press a button or wave anything in front of a reader. Sure, I registered somewhere about a year ago, but that was hardly an arduous process.
I think that’s the future (unless you count the barter system, after the grid collapses). Will Passbook offer similar features?
The Starbucks App already works similar. You can pull out your iPhone to pay using the Starbucks App. If Apple utilized a central payment system which Apps could tie into, this probably would gain traction. Starbucks ties special perks to the people who use the app to pay.
I really, really prefer Bluetooth 4 for NFC over some specialized hardware. You can't create a real revolution if you force the same workflow.
I think this is what Apple will do. Bluetooth 4 is already on millions of iPhones (iPhone 4S), iPads, and Macs. This would give Apple a good start compared to starting from zero devices with NFC with iPhone 5 (6th generation ????)
The Starbucks App already works similar. You can pull out your iPhone to pay using the Starbucks App. If Apple utilized a central payment system which Apps could tie into, this probably would gain traction. Starbucks ties special perks to the people who use the app to pay.
Agreed, if Apple open the PassBook SDK a little to developers this could be very useful, especially for some retailers with dedicated payment apps/loyalty schemes.
I can imaging going into Starbucks, opening passbook (or having it open in the background), paying by NFC and still getting any loyalty discount etc associated with the loyalty card/app they have.
Mind you, have we seen a Siri SDK yet ? or public release of Facetime code/spec (I'd love to have facetime from my windows PC)
the actual deployment of NFC around the world is sporadic, and in the US it is minimal. the jury is still out on its future. will crucial security issues all be resolved satisfactorily? will some newer alternative - like Bluetooth 4 - prove superior? or how about smart credit cards instead?
Apple's app-centric web approach is a good interim strategy. businesses will like it more than generic NFC because it connects you more tightly with their brand and package of services (that's why they issue their own branded credit cards now). we will see in the coming year what they can do with that. which is why Google is now rushing to copy it too of course as part of its Wallet.
things will change over the next 10 years, that's for sure, to some kind of new smart technology. but no one today can say how it will all turn out.
Comments
Apple and the whole nation in technology is a "third-world country." Eastern countries mostly have these technologies like couples of years ago. It seems America had been sleeping too long.
I really, really prefer Bluetooth 4 for NFC over some specialized hardware. You can't create a real revolution if you force the same workflow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSquirrel
Basically yes. Google's version left a lot of security entries into the system. I'm not aware of any security flaws in iOS that would happen when someone scanned a barcode on the screen. There could be some, of course, but who know?
Hmm. I suppose they could implement the Authentec tech in, as well. Basically you just hold your phone up, place your finger on the reader, and the retailer scans the barcode, presto.
The minor benefit here is that people can no longer talk on their phones while checking out in stores :-)
...except on AT&T. I can see the commercials already...
Not everyone lives in major cities. If fact, people who live in major cities are, well, the minority.
NFC is nowhere near ubiquitous outside of Asia and parts of Europe.
EDIT: By "major city" I'm not referring to urban areas or even standard major metropolitan areas. Instead I am referring generally to cities known world-wide like New York and Chicago. Not all cities are created equal. The one I live near doesn't even have a subway system and recently gained light-rail.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
I really, really prefer Bluetooth 4 for NFC over some specialized hardware. You can't create a real revolution if you force the same workflow.
The entire article is a bit...weird, to me. I had to confirm that it's saying "hey, look, the barcode scan option is better than NFC, kids." I"m not saying I'd like NFC, I just think overall, NFC would be a safer option than a barcode. UNLESS there is additional security like the Authentec scanners, etc.
I do agree with the point that every retailer on the planet has the ability to scan barcodes (well, almost all I'm sure). So that's a pretty low hurdle to jump if you're wanting people to start using their phones to pay for purchases.
Guess we'll find out soon. Apple, send out that announcement already!
I wonder if passbook will still work if there's no data connection or GPS is unavailable. Does it kick in immediately when one approaches the destination? How will it work when checking out and one is deep inside the store and there's a paucity of signal and/or no wifi?
Seems like this will all take a loooong time to really happen, NFC or otherwise. But Apple’s the one to do it right, so get started! Have to start somewhere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendergast
Not everyone lives in major cities. If fact, people who live in major cities are, well, the minority.
Utterly false. Globally more people now live in city/urban areas than rural.
In the US 62% of the population live in areas of 200k+ people.
I said major cities, not urban areas.
The city where I live outside of doesn't have ubiquitous NFC. Technically it's a major metropolitan area, but it's not a major city like New York, Chicago, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe
Utterly false. Globally more people now live in city/urban areas than rural.
In the US 62% of the population live in areas of 200k+ people.
It's actually even higher now. 250M or about 75% of the US population lives on 3% of the land. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States#Cities It cites a report by CBS News, citation #44.
How are barcodes less safe than NFC?
As for NFC communications it wouldn't be the first technology that sees a bit of adoption before buring out because nobody wants to deal with it. I'm not one to support the fear mongers but there has yet to be a case made for NFC that addresses outstanding security issues, the need for even more hardware nor the fact that Bluetooth is built into most cell phones these days.
How's that? They leverage existing technology to get acceptance off the ground. If a year or ten down the road NFC is widely used passbook simply gets an update and some new hardware gets built into Apples devices. The thing is Apples solution appears to be ready to go, and usable country wide right now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe
I disagree there, with the exception of a few big box retailers with old or custom POS systems, those PayPass / NFC readers are everywhere, particularly in shops.
Not sure what that means. and as I already said many many places actually already do
Here in the UK there are a few food retailers (EAT, McDonalds etc) who have limited deployment of NFC, however most big retailers have yet to deploy anything. The UK has just been through deployment of Chip and Pin, something that the United States sorely lacks.
I have a Visa card with NFC, and an iPhone app that shows me where I can use them, in my local shopping centre (over 200 shops) less than 10 of them have NFC enabled kit at present. This is probably because of the £20 limit on use, which for goods that can range upto £5000, it's of no use the retailer investing in NFC kit, software changes etc, as it gives them no benefit.
Apple's lack of NFC although an inconvenience is not a show stopper as there are technologies like http://www.barclaycard.co.uk/personal/paytag/what-is-paytag which lets you put an NFC sticker on your phone, so you get the same NFC convenience of tapping your phone (however as it's external you dont get real control over it)
So... Watch for the CEOs.
I don’t know much about NFC, but as a user, Square’s app seems like the future to me. I have the Square app on my phone, but I haven’t fired it up in a long time. Still, the donut shop down the street uses the square app too (an iPad is their cash register). I walked into their store, placed my order, and told them I was a Square user. They checked their iPad, and there was my profile photo. I didn’t have to press a button or wave anything in front of a reader. Sure, I registered somewhere about a year ago, but that was hardly an arduous process.
I think that’s the future (unless you count the barter system, after the grid collapses). Will Passbook offer similar features?
The Starbucks App already works similar. You can pull out your iPhone to pay using the Starbucks App. If Apple utilized a central payment system which Apps could tie into, this probably would gain traction. Starbucks ties special perks to the people who use the app to pay.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
I really, really prefer Bluetooth 4 for NFC over some specialized hardware. You can't create a real revolution if you force the same workflow.
I think this is what Apple will do. Bluetooth 4 is already on millions of iPhones (iPhone 4S), iPads, and Macs. This would give Apple a good start compared to starting from zero devices with NFC with iPhone 5 (6th generation ????)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell
The Starbucks App already works similar. You can pull out your iPhone to pay using the Starbucks App. If Apple utilized a central payment system which Apps could tie into, this probably would gain traction. Starbucks ties special perks to the people who use the app to pay.
Agreed, if Apple open the PassBook SDK a little to developers this could be very useful, especially for some retailers with dedicated payment apps/loyalty schemes.
I can imaging going into Starbucks, opening passbook (or having it open in the background), paying by NFC and still getting any loyalty discount etc associated with the loyalty card/app they have.
Mind you, have we seen a Siri SDK yet ? or public release of Facetime code/spec (I'd love to have facetime from my windows PC)
the actual deployment of NFC around the world is sporadic, and in the US it is minimal. the jury is still out on its future. will crucial security issues all be resolved satisfactorily? will some newer alternative - like Bluetooth 4 - prove superior? or how about smart credit cards instead?
Apple's app-centric web approach is a good interim strategy. businesses will like it more than generic NFC because it connects you more tightly with their brand and package of services (that's why they issue their own branded credit cards now). we will see in the coming year what they can do with that. which is why Google is now rushing to copy it too of course as part of its Wallet.
things will change over the next 10 years, that's for sure, to some kind of new smart technology. but no one today can say how it will all turn out.