WSJ: Next-gen iPhone will have 'around the world' LTE functionality

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 38

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


     


    And it only took them eleven months, too. So let's give them a hand. As we slap them across the face and kick them out the door since the 6th iPhone is being released.



     


    No, wait, it's emotional fanboy comments like THIS that make it hard to take anything you say seriously. Way to one up yourself, Skil.


     


    It's a phone, for Christ's sake.. no need for slapping and/or kicking, proverbial or otherwise.

  • Reply 22 of 38
    solipsismxsolipsismx Posts: 19,566member
    kotatsu wrote: »
    The Galaxy S 3 is now the best selling phone, and that's just one Android phone out of a choice of hundreds.
    EVen MS claimed the Zune was the best selling PMP when it first came out. Maybe you should review your data and see why only the month before the new iPhone is expected to launch that the current model iPhone stopped being the best seller and a new device was on top. I'm hopeful you can come to a rational conclusion.
    For Apple to finally support LTE outside of America (I realise it must be a shock for Apple to discover there are actually other countries in the world) would obviously be a plus, but over the past year larger screens have become standard. When I compare my iPhone 4 to a current Android phone it looks like a toy, so tiny and yet so fat.  If rumours are to be believed the i5 won't have NFC, which just seems bizarre. Does nobody in Apple ever travel to Japan? Do they not realise how big a deal NFC is there?

    Nice strawman about a company that does more revenue and profit outside the US. A company that long ago supported more languages in their OSes by default without requiring you to buy different versions with partially complete support.
    I'm sure the iPhone 5 will sell well, but nobody stays on top forever, at least not without trying very hard, and Apple have sadly gone from leading the smart phone world (in terms of innovation) to playing perpetual catch-up.  They've become complacent.
    "Nobody stays on top forever" is your reasoning as to why you think Apple will fail right now? How the **** to get from one stupid concept to the other? if you review history you'll see Apple has been destined to fail by people like you from the start.

    Apple is foolish to buy NeXT. Apple is foolish to sell the iPod. Apple is foolish to offer an expensive model that was only NAND-based. Apple is foolish to create a phone when the market is so established. Apple is foolish for not offering a physical keyboard. Apple is foolish for creating a tablet that doesn't use Mac OS X.

    In retrospect people like you always like to conceded Apple's achievements to some degree to make yourself seem fair "Yeah well, they did good then, but now it's all gone to hell." is what you and your ilk say over and over again and have yet to be correct. One day, in your lifetime, you may actually be correct, and with that one tiny victory your sad and pathetic comments will be forever recorded on the internet letting the world that you were wrong every... other... fucking... time you made this claim.
  • Reply 23 of 38


    Originally Posted by Cash907 View Post

    Um.. there were already LTE phones on the market when it was released last year, so it was hardly the fastest. It's nonsense fanboy posts like this that make anything you say hard to agree with.


     


    Please show me where I said anything at all about cellular telephony.





    Originally Posted by Cash907 View Post

    No, wait, it's emotional fanboy comments like THIS that make it hard to take anything you say seriously. Way to one up yourself, Skil. It's a phone, for Christ's sake.. no need for slapping and/or kicking, proverbial or otherwise.


     


    Of course there is. That's what companies do to one another. It's not my fault that you don't like the words appropriate to describe the scenario. 


     


    Galaxy becomes "best selling" phone 11 months after the former champion comes out. Hours later the announcement for the new iPhone event goes out, taking away not only all the interest in that story, but also its legitimacy, within just a few weeks. What can you call that other than a kick in the genitals? And don't get me started on how that court case of theirs turned out. image Or how their upcoming lawsuit over LTE will turn out… 

  • Reply 24 of 38
    solipsismx wrote: »
    In retrospect people like you always like to conceded Apple's achievements to some degree to make yourself seem fair "Yeah well, they did good then, but now it's all gone to hell." is what you and your ilk say over and over again and have yet to be correct. One day, in your lifetime, you may actually be correct, and with that one tiny victory your sad and pathetic comments will be forever recorded on the internet letting the world that you were wrong every... other... fucking... time you made this claim.

    I think this every time I read these trolls, but it is nice to see it put to print every now and again...
  • Reply 25 of 38

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Russell View Post


    Unless Apple starts to pay Samsung for licensing agreements, Apple will be the one that gets a slap across the face when the iPhone5 launches.


     


     


    The top 4 LTE patent holders are Samsung with 1177 patents, Qualcomm 710, Panasonic 389, InterDigital 336. Nokia, Ericsson & LG less than 300 each. The consortium, that included Apple and others, acquired Nortel's 152 LTE patents. 


     



     


    The number of patents is not the accurate measure. The importance of the patents is. From the analysis done on this front (and pointed out on this very forum a few times in the past), Nokia and Qualcomm hold the keys to the treasure chest. They together hold the largest share of the important patents. These two have cross-lisensed with each other allowing the other to resell and sue if needed from the other's portfolio. Apple is using Qualcomm's chipsets so I'd venture a guess they are pretty safe on the LTE front due to that, not due to the consortium.


     


    In short, Samsung has a lot of patents, but not very important ones at that.

  • Reply 26 of 38
    kotatsukotatsu Posts: 1,010member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post





    EVen MS claimed the Zune was the best selling PMP when it first came out. Maybe you should review your data and see why only the month before the new iPhone is expected to launch that the current model iPhone stopped being the best seller and a new device was on top. I'm hopeful you can come to a rational conclusion.

    Nice strawman about a company that does more revenue and profit outside the US. A company that long ago supported more languages in their OSes by default without requiring you to buy different versions with partially complete support.

    "Nobody stays on top forever" is your reasoning as to why you think Apple will fail right now? How the **** to get from one stupid concept to the other? if you review history you'll see Apple has been destined to fail by people like you from the start.

    Apple is foolish to buy NeXT. Apple is foolish to sell the iPod. Apple is foolish to offer an expensive model that was only NAND-based. Apple is foolish to create a phone when the market is so established. Apple is foolish for not offering a physical keyboard. Apple is foolish for creating a tablet that doesn't use Mac OS X.

    In retrospect people like you always like to conceded Apple's achievements to some degree to make yourself seem fair "Yeah well, they did good then, but now it's all gone to hell." is what you and your ilk say over and over again and have yet to be correct. One day, in your lifetime, you may actually be correct, and with that one tiny victory your sad and pathetic comments will be forever recorded on the internet letting the world that you were wrong every... other... fucking... time you made this claim.


     


    Oh my, what a deeply unpleasant tirade of nastiness. The internet sadly brings out the very worst in people.


     


    If you can possibly stay your unpleasantness for a few seconds, could you tell me which smart phone platform is currently in the lead? Is it iOS? It was my understanding that Android is currently quite far ahead. I realise that must be an uncomfortable fact, but a fact it is. So sorry.


     


    I dread to think what rage I have summoned up, but if you could find it within yourself to hold back, I'd appreciate it.

  • Reply 27 of 38
    I think 4S had better propotions.
  • Reply 28 of 38


    Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

    If you can possibly stay your unpleasantness for a few seconds, could you tell me which smart phone platform is currently in the lead? Is it iOS? It was my understanding that Android is currently quite far ahead. I realise that must be an uncomfortable fact, but a fact it is. So sorry.


     


    Can you first tell me what that has to do with absolutely anything whatsoever that you said earlier? 


     


    You can stop pretending that Apple at any time had 90% smartphone marketshare or that any sort of "decrease" in marketshare has happened since its first announcement, thanks. We can see through that charade.

  • Reply 29 of 38


    Bottom line is that whatever samsung or android or anyone else does, Apple have revolutionised the world with regards to interfacing with technology and while being mocked by people who spend a good chunk of their lives grappling with viruses, malware and fugly, clumsy, soul destroying OS's, they single handedly dragged the smartphone market into the 21st century and with their one hundred billion dollar booty, will no doubt continue to make the world a more pleasant place for the haters to live in.

  • Reply 30 of 38

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jahonen View Post


     


    The number of patents is not the accurate measure. The importance of the patents is. From the analysis done on this front (and pointed out on this very forum a few times in the past), Nokia and Qualcomm hold the keys to the treasure chest. They together hold the largest share of the important patents. These two have cross-lisensed with each other allowing the other to resell and sue if needed from the other's portfolio. Apple is using Qualcomm's chipsets so I'd venture a guess they are pretty safe on the LTE front due to that, not due to the consortium.


     


    In short, Samsung has a lot of patents, but not very important ones at that.



     


    Reread my post or the document I linked to. Samsung has the largest share of seminal patents. Samsung has more seminal patents than Nokia and Qualcomm combined.


     


     


    Communication Reliability? Samsung 10, Nokia 1 & Qualcomm 4.


    Power management? 16, 3 & 4.


    Network Deployment? 16, 9 & 2


    Data Transfer Rate? 451, 147 & 260


    Spectra Efficiency? 678, 121 & 424


     


     


    "Samsung, compared to its competitors, accelerated and increased its investments in 4G-LTE ahead of the curve (2001 – 2005)."


    "While most of the companies have a similar trend in terms of filing patents, Samsung got its patents approved and granted by USPTO earlier than other players (2003 – 2005)."


    "Qualcomm also saw a similar spike in number of patents granted during the period 2007 – 1010."

    "Samsung continues to have a strong pipeline of pending applications with the patent office."

  • Reply 31 of 38


    From Bloomberg


     


    Quote:


    A victory could let HTC seek an import ban of the latest iPad and even the newest iPhone, if it uses LTE when it’s unveiled as early as next week.



    http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-09-06/htc-patents-challenged-by-apple-probably-valid-judge-say


     


    Another Oops?

  • Reply 32 of 38

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Russell View Post


     


    Reread my post or the document I linked to. Samsung has the largest share of seminal patents. Samsung has more seminal patents than Nokia and Qualcomm combined.


     


     


    Communication Reliability? Samsung 10, Nokia 1 & Qualcomm 4.


    Power management? 16, 3 & 4.


    Network Deployment? 16, 9 & 2


    Data Transfer Rate? 451, 147 & 260


    Spectra Efficiency? 678, 121 & 424


     



    And another detailed analysis dividing the patents into 5 tiers of relevance and defendability (instead of 2) shows that of Grade A patents:


    Nokia: 13.7%


    Qualcomm: 14.4%


    Samsung: 9.9%


     


    Based on novelty (should be well defendable):


    Nokia: 18.9%


    Qualcomm: 12.5%


    Samsung: 12.2%


     


    And since Nokia & Qualcomm have pooled their patents together, the figures become quite formidable against Samsung in the importance category: 28.1% vs. 9.9% and in the novelty category: 31.4 vs 12.2% should Samsung sue Apple, who is using Qualcomm tech.


     


    Source: http://newsletters.articleonepartners.com/news_4296e045-efdc-f819-c332-f181a6d2e012LTE Standard Essential Patents Now and in the Future_AOP.pdf


     


    I'm not saying that Samsung doesn't have a lot of patents and a fair number of important ones, but the combo of Nokia and Qualcomm is quite formidable should a patent war ignite.

  • Reply 33 of 38
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,615member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jahonen View Post


     


    And since Nokia & Qualcomm have pooled their patents together, the figures become quite formidable against Samsung in the importance category: 28.1% vs. 9.9% and in the novelty category: 31.4 vs 12.2% should Samsung sue Apple, who is using Qualcomm tech.


     


    Source: http://newsletters.articleonepartners.com/news_4296e045-efdc-f819-c332-f181a6d2e012LTE Standard Essential Patents Now and in the Future_AOP.pdf


     


    I'm not saying that Samsung doesn't have a lot of patents and a fair number of important ones, but the combo of Nokia and Qualcomm is quite formidable should a patent war ignite.



    Why do you believe Nokia and Qualcomm are partnered and working towards the same goals? FWIW Nokia is still after Apple, placing another package of (F)RAND-pledged patents with a NPE to bring another IP infringement suit against Apple. Perhaps you've mistaken Qualcomm as Microsoft.


    http://www.patentlyo.com/patent/2012/03/microsoft-and-nokia-sue-apple-for-patent-infringement-through-a-holding-company.html

  • Reply 34 of 38

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    Why do you believe Nokia and Qualcomm are partnered and working towards the same goals? FWIW Nokia is still after Apple, placing another package of (F)RAND-pledged patents with a NPE to bring another IP infringement suit against Apple. Perhaps you've mistaken Qualcomm as Microsoft.


    http://www.patentlyo.com/patent/2012/03/microsoft-and-nokia-sue-apple-for-patent-infringement-through-a-holding-company.html



     


    Not necessarily the same goals, but due to their cross licensing:: “In 2008, Nokia and Qualcomm entered into a new 15 year agreement, under the terms of which Nokia was granted a license to all Qualcomm’s patents for the use in Nokia mobile devices and Nokia Siemens Networks infrastructure equipment.” Thus, the company has complete access to an unrivaled 31.4% of the essential LTE patents", Qualcomm's position is pretty solid just like Nokia's. My understanding is, that Qualcomm likewise has access to the Nokia pool of LTE essential patents. That's two separate analysises claiming that Nok/Qual hold roughly 30% of LTE essential vs. Samsungs 10-12%.


     


    Is the NPE case about LTE? Or something else? This discussion was about LTE essential patents and Samsung's possible lawsuit threat against Apple in the LTE space. I don't know if Qualcomm's licensing deal with Nokia in the LTE front protects Apple, but the potential is there. That's why I think (possibly wrongly) that Apple is relatively protected from Samsung, when it comes to LTE essential patents due to Qualcomms strong position via their own strong patents and their deal with the other LTE patent powerhouse - Nokia.


     


    This article (http://itcompanyegypt.com/nokia-patent-portfolio-an-untapped-goldmine-seeking-alpha/) contains the forementioned data and lots of other very interesting bits of information about important patents in the LTE space.


     


    The article also discusses  an even more interesting tidbit of mapping patents (Nokia and Microsoft apparently together hold most of the patents in the outdoor and especially indoor positioning space). Once the war on mapping gets afoot, it may be an interesting one to watch.


     


     

  • Reply 35 of 38
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,615member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jahonen View Post


    Is the NPE case about LTE? Or something else? .


     


     



    Yes, it includes Apple's use of 4G technologies in the infringement claims. Read the link I supplied for additional clarity.

  • Reply 36 of 38

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    Yes, it includes Apple's use of 4G technologies in the infringement claims. Read the link I supplied for additional clarity.



    The link didn't clarify too much as it only had patent numbers. Patentlyapple had a bit more detail as to what exactly those patent numbers mean. It seems to revolve around 3G state machines and general packet data transfer over cellular networks. At first glance not much LTE specific, but some seem to be broad enough to cover LTE as well.


     


    An interesting detail was how Nok&MS sold patents to this patent suit company with interesting terms: The patents were cheap, but they must capitalize on the said patents, any money they get over the initial purchase price get split evenly between this company, MS and Nok. If there is no return of money to MS and Nok, then the patents automatically revert back to Nok and MS.

  • Reply 37 of 38
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,615member

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jahonen View Post


    An interesting detail was how Nok&MS sold patents to this patent suit company with interesting terms: The patents were cheap, but they must capitalize on the said patents, any money they get over the initial purchase price get split evenly between this company, MS and Nok. If there is no return of money to MS and Nok, then the patents automatically revert back to Nok and MS.



    Correct, and it's generally been overlooked. FOSSPATENTS (and Hill60 too IIRC) has called out Google for "loaning" patents to HTC for defensive counterclaims against Apple's IP infringement suit. This one is along the same lines since Core Wireless doesn't actually own the patents outright, but much more aggregious IMO since some of Nokia's SEP's are included. When I asked Florian about it he claimed he knew nothing about the company and didn't follow any NPE's. Convenient that Microsoft is a client of his isn't it?

  • Reply 38 of 38

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post



    It's hard to believe Apple would have a different iPhone for each market but it's finally time to introduce LTE now that the 3rd gen LTE chips (2nd gen Gobi LTE chips) are here. Tech doesn't always line up the way we want it so if they have to do a split for a year or two i could see it, but I'm hoping and guessing that won't be the case.

     


     


    Well they did bring a different phone for each market. Now they have three different models.


     


    2 GSM models (1 for North America, 1 for the rest)


    1 CDMA model


     


    Even the "rest of the world" model is limited to three bands which doesn't really cut it as 2600 is not there to be thought of as a world phone. Then again DC HSDPA is more  than enough for most.

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