I assume you realize that a dropped call can happen between your device, the connecting tower, all the interchange between networks and carriers, the receiver's tower and the receiver's device. Having made a career in networking you can't just say it's the first thing that comes to mind because it was in the paper and claim that is the culprit. In your case, it very well could be, but it's certainly not inherent to using an externally placed antenna for the reasons noted above.
Where is your evidence to say it's not any of the other things in the chain every time a call was dropped? I seem to recall AT&T being the most likely carrier for dropped calls well before the iPhone 4 was ever demoed but it's all the iPhone 4's fault? How that is objective or critical thinking?
It's pretty simple. Finger on iPhone 4, it cuts out. Take finger off, you can call again.
Finger on, 3G slows or stalls. Finger off, 3G transmits as normal again.
Repeat ad nauseam.
I do doubt that my finger was causing disruption to the interchange between networks and carriers.
Not just my model. Not just my carrier. Every one of them in my local Apple Store did the same. Connected to all the UK carriers: Orange, O2, T-Mobile, Vodafone, Three. I went along the line touching them, and watched the bars fall.
iPhone 4 - the worst Apple product I've ever owned (and I've had many, I'm a die-hard fan).
If it's a conceptual flaw with the antenna being on the outside then why are the iPhone 4S and 5 both on the outside?
Because both the 4S and 5 have a different antenna arrangement from the GSM 4. The 4S uses two separate GSM antennas, which mitigates the issue. The 5 presumably has some other solution entirely.
It's not a conceptual flaw with an external antenna - it was an implementation issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Why didn't they recall them all instead of continuing to sell them?
Because a total recall would have cost loads of money, as well as generating horrific PR. You don't do a total recall unless the product is either dangerous or essentially unusable. It was easier to assuage the relatively small proportion of buyers who complained to Apple with a bumper.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Yes, that's what all the whiners and media whores say.
Why is it 'whining' to complain if you buy a phone which loses signal when you hold it the 'wrong' way? Do you seriously think that all the people who reported this issue were just making it up because they wanted media attention or just liked moaning?
I don't see how you can possibly refute the countless videos of the phone losing reception which have been posted on the internet, through any strategy other than wilful ignorance.
They've sold, what, at least 60 M of these units. You think they all have cases on them? I used Bumpers at first to protect it but the Bumper wears out and I hated the bulk. Haven't had any case on it for about 1.5 years of the 2.25 years I've been using it. Dropped it plenty of times and it didn't break. Have made countless calls and didn't have to pinch the glass to keep the call from dropping.
Don't confuse a single being attenuated with a dropped call. Also don't confuse the dB rating as represented by bars as meaning a single isn't usable. Three bars doesn't mean you get a better call over 4 bars as it doesn't represent call quality or data throughput. As AnandTech clearly showed the bars representing the dB were way off, they hadn't been adjusted for this revolutionary new external design that is still on the iPhone 3 generations later despite some saying they will all be recalled, Apple will put the antenna back inside the device, and Apple was foolish to try something new in an industry they know nothing about. None of those things happened. AT showed that the iPhone 4 could not only hold a call but also make a call in areas that all other devices had no signal because the antenna was more sensitive to a lower dB because of the clever antenna design. Why ignore this part of their article?
The number of bars does seem to be significant for me. Anything less than three and I can't expect to get any data through on EDGE or 3G, in any locale. A little bit of data comes through, but it's unreliable and it takes minutes to give up. At 3 bars, it's usually fine.
It's pretty simple. Finger on iPhone 4, it cuts out. Take finger off, you can call again.
Finger on, 3G slows or stalls. Finger off, 3G transmits as normal again.
Repeat ad nauseam.
I do doubt that my finger was causing disruption to the interchange between networks and carriers.
Not just my model. Not just my carrier. Every one of them in my local Apple Store did the same. Connected to all the UK carriers: Orange, O2, T-Mobile, Vodafone, Three. I went along the line touching them, and watched the bars fall.
iPhone 4 - the worst Apple product I've ever owned (and I've had many, I'm a die-hard fan).
iPhone 4S - the best so far. They fixed it.
Yup, just did another test with my wife's iPhone 4.
WiFi off, 3G on, sitting in an open palm
WiFi off, 3G on, me holding it in my hand (it wouldn't even finish the test, and after about 30 seconds went from "Searching" to "No Signal")
My wife's iPhone 4, open palm vs my wife's iPhone 4 with death grip (signal drops)
My iPhone 4s with open palm vs my iPhone 4S with death grip (no changes in signal)
Mazda3 ... Your wife may or may not be having a problem ... I won't comment on that but, the way you are holding the phone in the two "death grip" photos are so different it almost seems like you want to see a drop off in the bars showing. In the iPhone4 photo you have your thumb on the opposing side of where you fingers are and the fingers show me that you are squeezing it rather hard, from the looks of it, but in the iPhone 4s photo your thumb is at the top and your top finger looks to be elevated off of the phone completely. I would call bullshit if this was posted by someone with an agenda. Is it ?
Mazda3 ... Your wife may or may not be having a problem ... I won't comment on that but, the way you are holding the phone in the two "death grip" photos are so different it almost seems like you want to see a drop off in the bars showing. In the iPhone4 photo you have your thumb on the opposing side of where you fingers are and the fingers show me that you are squeezing it rather hard, from the looks of it, but in the iPhone 4s photo your thumb is at the top and your top finger looks to be elevated off of the phone completely. I would call bullshit if this was posted by someone with an agenda. Is it ?
WOW, LET ME DO THIS AGAIN... I'll make sure that every single thing lines up and that the hairs on arms are in alignment
And why would I have an agenda? I seriously don't get this need to demonize posters. WTF?
When 99.6% of users reported not having this problem, it's not a problem with the phone.
I honestly just don't know how to respond to this.
Again, I'm not blaming anybody. I'm not shouting. I'm not accusing anyone of being a liar. I'm just simply saying that there is clearly a problem with my wife's iPhone 4 that I can easily reproduce. It doesn't show up on my iPhone 4S.
I just don't understand how you could basically just dimiss those that have a problem. It's almost as if you just want to go ahead and call me a liar to my face.
And that's all I'm saying. Can he not even entertain the possibility that not everyone's experiences are exactly the same?
I'm not saying that everyone is having a problem, or that everyone is having a perfect life with iPhone 4 reception. We've just found in our case that there is a clear problem. It just infuriates me when people try to talk down to you and make you seem like you're crazy because "I don't have a problem so THERE IS NO PROBLEM" or "I'm an expert; I'm right, YOU'RE WRONG."
Now whereas as my wife's iPhone 4 is hit or miss without a case, my iPhone 4S gets excellent reception without a case in any condition and rarely ever drops a call. And I can cup the device in my hand when surfing the web without 3G performance taking a nosedive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee
Mazda3 ... Your wife may or may not be having a problem ... I won't comment on that but, the way you are holding the phone in the two "death grip" photos are so different it almost seems like you want to see a drop off in the bars.... I would call bullshit if this was posted by someone with an agenda. Is it ?
In his previous post he said his iphone4s gets excellent reception. What agenda can he possibly have except for reporting balanced & truthful information?
I honestly just don't know how to respond to this.
Again, I'm not blaming anybody. I'm not shouting. I'm not accusing anyone of being a liar. I'm just simply saying that there is clearly a problem with my wife's iPhone 4 that I can easily reproduce. It doesn't show up on my iPhone 4S.
I just don't understand how you could basically just dimiss those that have a problem. It's almost as if you just want to go ahead and call me a liar to my face.
I honestly just don't know how to respond to this.
Again, I'm not blaming anybody. I'm not shouting. I'm not accusing anyone of being a liar. I'm just simply saying that there is clearly a problem with my wife's iPhone 4 that I can easily reproduce. It doesn't show up on my iPhone 4S.
I just don't understand how you could basically just dimiss those that have a problem. It's almost as if you just want to go ahead and call me a liar to my face.
And, as has been explained before, it's not specific to the iPhone.
ANY phone can suffer signal degradation under some circumstances such as cupping the phone in your hand. The iPhone is not dramatically different than the rest of the industry. Part of the problem is that the iPhone is more sensitive and was able to make phone calls in marginal areas where other phones might not have connected in the first place (see Anand's review of the issue).
In the end, the behavior happens with all phones to a greater or lesser degree. In the case of the iPhone, if you happen to be one of the ones affected, a simple bumper largely fixes the problem. And Apple even gave users a free bumper at the time the problem was happening. If, OTOH, you are using a different phone, a bumper doesn't fix it.
And, as has been explained before, it's not specific to the iPhone.
ANY phone can suffer signal degradation under some circumstances such as cupping the phone in your hand. The iPhone is not dramatically different than the rest of the industry. Part of the problem is that the iPhone is more sensitive and was able to make phone calls in marginal areas where other phones might not have connected in the first place (see Anand's review of the issue).
In the end, the behavior happens with all phones to a greater or lesser degree. In the case of the iPhone, if you happen to be one of the ones affected, a simple bumper largely fixes the problem. And Apple even gave users a free bumper at the time the problem was happening. If, OTOH, you are using a different phone, a bumper doesn't fix it.
So it's largely a non-issue for Apple.
But I'm not talking about other phones. I'm talking about the only smartphones I've ever used: iPhones.
I've had an iPhone 3GS, iPhone 4, and iPhone 4S (and soon to be iPhone 5). The iPhone 4 was the only one to have problems with dropped calls, or signal degradation to the point of losing 3G internet connectivity when holding it in my hand.
Again, as I said. I'm not really upset, nor does it really bother me in the end. My wife has a bumper case that alleviates the problem. I just get a little annoyed when people dismiss the underlying issue outright.
This is a thread where I think I am stupid not to shoot a video when I got iPhone 4 for my wife. It could be fun when this old myth surfaced again. The first thing I do is sqeezing it real hard the way I saw people do in YouTube. Nothing happned. The best I got after several tries was one bar dropped. So much for the mighty death grip. Funny I got dropped calls all the time with bumper on because my carrier is shit.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
I assume you realize that a dropped call can happen between your device, the connecting tower, all the interchange between networks and carriers, the receiver's tower and the receiver's device. Having made a career in networking you can't just say it's the first thing that comes to mind because it was in the paper and claim that is the culprit. In your case, it very well could be, but it's certainly not inherent to using an externally placed antenna for the reasons noted above.
Where is your evidence to say it's not any of the other things in the chain every time a call was dropped? I seem to recall AT&T being the most likely carrier for dropped calls well before the iPhone 4 was ever demoed but it's all the iPhone 4's fault? How that is objective or critical thinking?
It's pretty simple. Finger on iPhone 4, it cuts out. Take finger off, you can call again.
Finger on, 3G slows or stalls. Finger off, 3G transmits as normal again.
Repeat ad nauseam.
I do doubt that my finger was causing disruption to the interchange between networks and carriers.
Not just my model. Not just my carrier. Every one of them in my local Apple Store did the same. Connected to all the UK carriers: Orange, O2, T-Mobile, Vodafone, Three. I went along the line touching them, and watched the bars fall.
iPhone 4 - the worst Apple product I've ever owned (and I've had many, I'm a die-hard fan).
iPhone 4S - the best so far. They fixed it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
If it's a conceptual flaw with the antenna being on the outside then why are the iPhone 4S and 5 both on the outside?
Because both the 4S and 5 have a different antenna arrangement from the GSM 4. The 4S uses two separate GSM antennas, which mitigates the issue. The 5 presumably has some other solution entirely.
It's not a conceptual flaw with an external antenna - it was an implementation issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
Why didn't they recall them all instead of continuing to sell them?
Because a total recall would have cost loads of money, as well as generating horrific PR. You don't do a total recall unless the product is either dangerous or essentially unusable. It was easier to assuage the relatively small proportion of buyers who complained to Apple with a bumper.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Yes, that's what all the whiners and media whores say.
Why is it 'whining' to complain if you buy a phone which loses signal when you hold it the 'wrong' way? Do you seriously think that all the people who reported this issue were just making it up because they wanted media attention or just liked moaning?
I don't see how you can possibly refute the countless videos of the phone losing reception which have been posted on the internet, through any strategy other than wilful ignorance.
Thanks for that title, AI. That was really necessary to bring up that blatant lie all over again for absolutely no reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphonious
... wilful ignorance.Bingo.
(see post directly above)
The number of bars does seem to be significant for me. Anything less than three and I can't expect to get any data through on EDGE or 3G, in any locale. A little bit of data comes through, but it's unreliable and it takes minutes to give up. At 3 bars, it's usually fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevt
It's pretty simple. Finger on iPhone 4, it cuts out. Take finger off, you can call again.
Finger on, 3G slows or stalls. Finger off, 3G transmits as normal again.
Repeat ad nauseam.
I do doubt that my finger was causing disruption to the interchange between networks and carriers.
Not just my model. Not just my carrier. Every one of them in my local Apple Store did the same. Connected to all the UK carriers: Orange, O2, T-Mobile, Vodafone, Three. I went along the line touching them, and watched the bars fall.
iPhone 4 - the worst Apple product I've ever owned (and I've had many, I'm a die-hard fan).
iPhone 4S - the best so far. They fixed it.
Yup, just did another test with my wife's iPhone 4.
WiFi off, 3G on, sitting in an open palm
WiFi off, 3G on, me holding it in my hand (it wouldn't even finish the test, and after about 30 seconds went from "Searching" to "No Signal")
Originally Posted by Habanero
Bingo.
(see post directly above)
lol, yeah, it was a real problem. Consumer Reports even said so!
????
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s
My wife's iPhone 4, open palm vs my wife's iPhone 4 with death grip (signal drops)
My iPhone 4s with open palm vs my iPhone 4S with death grip (no changes in signal)
Mazda3 ... Your wife may or may not be having a problem ... I won't comment on that but, the way you are holding the phone in the two "death grip" photos are so different it almost seems like you want to see a drop off in the bars showing. In the iPhone4 photo you have your thumb on the opposing side of where you fingers are and the fingers show me that you are squeezing it rather hard, from the looks of it, but in the iPhone 4s photo your thumb is at the top and your top finger looks to be elevated off of the phone completely. I would call bullshit if this was posted by someone with an agenda. Is it ?
Originally Posted by new bee
…so different it almost seems like you want to see a drop off in the bars showing.
Imagine that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee
Mazda3 ... Your wife may or may not be having a problem ... I won't comment on that but, the way you are holding the phone in the two "death grip" photos are so different it almost seems like you want to see a drop off in the bars showing. In the iPhone4 photo you have your thumb on the opposing side of where you fingers are and the fingers show me that you are squeezing it rather hard, from the looks of it, but in the iPhone 4s photo your thumb is at the top and your top finger looks to be elevated off of the phone completely. I would call bullshit if this was posted by someone with an agenda. Is it ?
WOW, LET ME DO THIS AGAIN... I'll make sure that every single thing lines up and that the hairs on arms are in alignment
And why would I have an agenda? I seriously don't get this need to demonize posters. WTF?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Imagine that.
Seriously? Really?
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s
Seriously? Really?
When 99.6% of users reported not having this problem, it's not a problem with the phone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
When 99.6% of users reported not having this problem, it's not a problem with the phone.
I honestly just don't know how to respond to this.
Again, I'm not blaming anybody. I'm not shouting. I'm not accusing anyone of being a liar. I'm just simply saying that there is clearly a problem with my wife's iPhone 4 that I can easily reproduce. It doesn't show up on my iPhone 4S.
I just don't understand how you could basically just dimiss those that have a problem. It's almost as if you just want to go ahead and call me a liar to my face.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s
And that's all I'm saying. Can he not even entertain the possibility that not everyone's experiences are exactly the same?
I'm not saying that everyone is having a problem, or that everyone is having a perfect life with iPhone 4 reception. We've just found in our case that there is a clear problem. It just infuriates me when people try to talk down to you and make you seem like you're crazy because "I don't have a problem so THERE IS NO PROBLEM" or "I'm an expert; I'm right, YOU'RE WRONG."
Now whereas as my wife's iPhone 4 is hit or miss without a case, my iPhone 4S gets excellent reception without a case in any condition and rarely ever drops a call. And I can cup the device in my hand when surfing the web without 3G performance taking a nosedive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee
Mazda3 ... Your wife may or may not be having a problem ... I won't comment on that but, the way you are holding the phone in the two "death grip" photos are so different it almost seems like you want to see a drop off in the bars.... I would call bullshit if this was posted by someone with an agenda. Is it ?
In his previous post he said his iphone4s gets excellent reception. What agenda can he possibly have except for reporting balanced & truthful information?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s
I honestly just don't know how to respond to this.
Again, I'm not blaming anybody. I'm not shouting. I'm not accusing anyone of being a liar. I'm just simply saying that there is clearly a problem with my wife's iPhone 4 that I can easily reproduce. It doesn't show up on my iPhone 4S.
I just don't understand how you could basically just dimiss those that have a problem. It's almost as if you just want to go ahead and call me a liar to my face.
It's dumbfounding, isn't it?
And, as has been explained before, it's not specific to the iPhone.
ANY phone can suffer signal degradation under some circumstances such as cupping the phone in your hand. The iPhone is not dramatically different than the rest of the industry. Part of the problem is that the iPhone is more sensitive and was able to make phone calls in marginal areas where other phones might not have connected in the first place (see Anand's review of the issue).
In the end, the behavior happens with all phones to a greater or lesser degree. In the case of the iPhone, if you happen to be one of the ones affected, a simple bumper largely fixes the problem. And Apple even gave users a free bumper at the time the problem was happening. If, OTOH, you are using a different phone, a bumper doesn't fix it.
So it's largely a non-issue for Apple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
When 99.6% of users reported not having this problem, it's not a problem with the phone.
If it's not a problem with the phone, then why did Steve Jobs say "Just don't hold it that way"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
And, as has been explained before, it's not specific to the iPhone.
How many other phones can lose phone capability with just a pinkie touch?
Mazda 3s, can you show us what a pinkie can do to your phones? Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
And, as has been explained before, it's not specific to the iPhone.
ANY phone can suffer signal degradation under some circumstances such as cupping the phone in your hand. The iPhone is not dramatically different than the rest of the industry. Part of the problem is that the iPhone is more sensitive and was able to make phone calls in marginal areas where other phones might not have connected in the first place (see Anand's review of the issue).
In the end, the behavior happens with all phones to a greater or lesser degree. In the case of the iPhone, if you happen to be one of the ones affected, a simple bumper largely fixes the problem. And Apple even gave users a free bumper at the time the problem was happening. If, OTOH, you are using a different phone, a bumper doesn't fix it.
So it's largely a non-issue for Apple.
But I'm not talking about other phones. I'm talking about the only smartphones I've ever used: iPhones.
I've had an iPhone 3GS, iPhone 4, and iPhone 4S (and soon to be iPhone 5). The iPhone 4 was the only one to have problems with dropped calls, or signal degradation to the point of losing 3G internet connectivity when holding it in my hand.
Again, as I said. I'm not really upset, nor does it really bother me in the end. My wife has a bumper case that alleviates the problem. I just get a little annoyed when people dismiss the underlying issue outright.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell
Mazda 3s, can you show us what a pinkie can do to your phones? Thanks.
Gotta feed the baby, but here's my wife's phone with a pinky: