Apple's products are good enough to stand up to criticism by themselves, and you do not need to defend them.
Sadly in this case Apple have not done a good job and are receiving, justly, criticism for that. I think it's ok if you let people express thier disappointment about this without feeling the need to blindly defend Apple.
I'm not defending anything, I'm stating facts. You want to add a road, go add it yourself. You want to add new satellite imagery, you can't. So complain about that.
Likely, Apple maps usage will go up and Google maps usage will go down -– so that a year from now the results from the two apps will be closer together.
I think the point is that Map is a core function of the mobile phone. Everyone looks at Google maps as the best and I can promise you that Google/Moto/Samsung et al will make a point of it in their advertisement.
This has the potential of market loss if in the next month or so they do not solve the problem!
I agree with what to say.
However, the agreement between Apple and Google had come to an end.
I suspect that Apple wanted to continue using Google maps data but couldn't come to an agreement with Google.
I read somewhere that Google wanted to include ads along with the maps in addition to gathering tracking data from the users.
Google holds all the aces.
So, what was Apple to do?
I suspect that Google, Android, Samsung, etc. will milk this to the nth degree.
But, within a year, I think it will be a non-issue.
Despite being a huge apple fanatic, I also have agree that the new maps is not quite there.
There are huge pros and cons. For pros; the maps themselves do look great, turn by turn navigation works fantastic (which is no surprise since the whole thing is actually Tom Tom and it is genuinely a huge advantage how searching for something now auto fills result options.
As for cons, I'm not concerned about location errors. Annoying yes, but every map out there had that. It will get fixed as people find them. Street view is a big downfall. It was really useful and I have already had instances where I needed it. Although on the bright side I have already seen the Tom Tom camera car driving around my city a bunch so it's clearly coming. My biggest personal complaint is that the map itself is just hard to read when just using it as a map. I fee like if the made the streets a bit bigger and more bubbly and made the labels a bit more bold it would be 100% better.
Harsher notes were sounded by All Things D's Walt Mossberg, who called it the "biggest drawback" of the iPhone 5. Daring Fireball's John Gruber labeled the app "a downgrade," and Bloomberg's Rich Jaroslavsky found it was "too easily confused, especially in urban areas."
City-dwellers are particularly rankled that the app provides no native transit directions, instead redirecting users to third-party apps.
Well wouldn't you know it, but Google is reminding people today that it has an alternative. Brian McClendon, vice president of engineering for maps at Google, told the New York Times that an update to Google Maps for Android coming today would include a host of new features, including the ability to synchronize across devices.
If you search for a location on your desktop while signed into Google, that location will pop up as a recent search inside the Google Maps app on your phone, saving you from having to type out the address again on your phone. Previous searches will show up inside the app under the heading "My Places," and users can save various locations using "work," "home" and other labels.
Apple doesn't have a desktop maps application, of course, giving Google an edge over its rival. The Times notes that Google's app is also better at auto-completing partial queries and allowing people to make edits using Google Map Maker.
Still unanswered is whether Google will build a standalone Maps app for iOS. McClendon wouldn't say.
Google could decide against building an iOS app in order to give consumers a compelling reason to choose Android devices over the iPhone. Maps has long been a competitive advantage for Google, and making it Android-only could help keep it way.
But there's a disadvantage, too. Scott Rafer, CEO of mapping application company Lumatic, notes in a blog post that Google relies on its users to get data that is invaluable for improving the maps experience.
"More than half of Google's mobile map usage is going away in the next month or two," Rafer said. "Usage makes maps better a lot faster than software does."
That's a big reason we might see Google Maps back on iOS after all, and soon.
I don't like Google any more than the next person around here. But Apple has had Google Maps on iOS from the very start. They *need* to take that into account before they go ahead and f with it.
You've already answered that question. Fix it yourself at the source.
Right! The latter is a valid complaint, the former is not.
Not really. Add it yourself. Who better to do it than a native?
To everyone that is saying well just add it yourself...there that fixed it for you. That is not the point.....they replaced a great app with a substandard one that should still be in beta. At least google has people driving all over the world to map out things for their application. Apple is bigger than Google with a better track record for relasing great products.....you would think if they wanted to hey could have had the world mapped correctly BEFORE they relased a replacement app......
But they've *already* had all that time in development.
Why are we being asked to wait for something we already had?
Apple could have at least made their Map app as an App Store offering, with a *Beta* disclaimer somewhere, until it was ready. OR NOT RELEASE IT AT ALL UNTIL IT WAS PERFECT.
I give Forstall a lot of slack, but it's time to reel it in a bit.
I think the new Maps is a bit of a PR disaster for Apple, but that isn't all bad. Apple responds the quickest and most drastic when the PR is not good. So the worse the press gets the quicker and update will come to fix some of the more glaring issues.
Also, I would be absolutely SHOCKED if Google doesn't wind up releasing a stand alone Google Maps app within the next year, especially after so many people are screaming they want Google Maps back. It'd be stupid for Google to ignore that.
I'm not defending anything, I'm stating facts. You want to add a road, go add it yourself. You want to add new satellite imagery, you can't. So complain about that.
I can complain, the version before, I never had to add, the road down my house was already labeled. Apple screwed up, they should of waited. Admit it, you wont melt, I promise.
However, the agreement between Apple and Google had come to an end.
What exactly were the details of this fabled agreement we keep hearing about?
Was it Apple walking away? Was it Google that didn't want to "renew"? We keep hearing that Apple had no choice. Did they *really* have no choice? Somehow I doubt that.
The now unfortunate thing about Apple - they don't like to play with others. By corraling their technology system... They essentially kill innovation. Think $100 billion would fix it? Ask the government. Resources alone doesn't make a company more innovate or able to perfect a technology.
Google pretty much owns maps. And right behind them... Is Nokia.
I'm not defending anything, I'm stating facts. You want to add a road, go add it yourself. You want to add new satellite imagery, you can't. So complain about that.
If you take a few minutes and read over your posts of the last half hour I think you will soon see that you are defending :-) maybe you don't realise it!
But actually I was just looking up open street maps, as you suggested, to see if I can edit the things in my area and it is very basic for here in Flekkerøy, Norway... do you think that they use some other provider for this area? Any ideas who that may be?
EDIT: Just looked on the Maps app and it says Norwegian Mapping Authority -
Thing is, Apple actually comes through when they do this.
That's useful when they create something new. It's not useful when it's a replacement for something that works well. In the latter event, Apple needs to get it (largely) right now, or make it a beta (e.g., Siri), and/or give the user options to use the new and existing.
It'd be like if your OSX suddenly became incompatible with Excel.
I'm not defending anything, I'm stating facts. You want to add a road, go add it yourself.
That is absolutely a defence. You are shifting the onus to get this product right onto the user. It should clearly be upon Apple, since it was Apple who replaced a product which worked well with this new solution.
I'm not sure why you can't see this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
So then neither Apple nor Google should have released any sort of maps until they were done. Neither service should exist now.
Of course not. But if you elect to replace a mature product which users are happy with, you'd better damn hope that your own product is comparable. If it's not, you are going to be under fire. Users don't like upgrades which take away functionality.
Comments
Originally Posted by sedney
Tallest Skil,
Apple's products are good enough to stand up to criticism by themselves, and you do not need to defend them.
Sadly in this case Apple have not done a good job and are receiving, justly, criticism for that. I think it's ok if you let people express thier disappointment about this without feeling the need to blindly defend Apple.
I'm not defending anything, I'm stating facts. You want to add a road, go add it yourself. You want to add new satellite imagery, you can't. So complain about that.
I agree with what to say.
However, the agreement between Apple and Google had come to an end.
I suspect that Apple wanted to continue using Google maps data but couldn't come to an agreement with Google.
I read somewhere that Google wanted to include ads along with the maps in addition to gathering tracking data from the users.
Google holds all the aces.
So, what was Apple to do?
I suspect that Google, Android, Samsung, etc. will milk this to the nth degree.
But, within a year, I think it will be a non-issue.
There are huge pros and cons. For pros; the maps themselves do look great, turn by turn navigation works fantastic (which is no surprise since the whole thing is actually Tom Tom and it is genuinely a huge advantage how searching for something now auto fills result options.
As for cons, I'm not concerned about location errors. Annoying yes, but every map out there had that. It will get fixed as people find them. Street view is a big downfall. It was really useful and I have already had instances where I needed it. Although on the bright side I have already seen the Tom Tom camera car driving around my city a bunch so it's clearly coming. My biggest personal complaint is that the map itself is just hard to read when just using it as a map. I fee like if the made the streets a bit bigger and more bubbly and made the labels a bit more bold it would be 100% better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
I fail to see what they deceived anyone on. If you believed something they never stated, that's your fault.
Do you not recall the huge sensational presentation at WWDC about the superiority of the new Apple mapping technology?
Not good. At all.
Quote:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57516114-93/amid-weak-reviews-of-apple-maps-google-offers-alternative/
Harsher notes were sounded by All Things D's Walt Mossberg, who called it the "biggest drawback" of the iPhone 5. Daring Fireball's John Gruber labeled the app "a downgrade," and Bloomberg's Rich Jaroslavsky found it was "too easily confused, especially in urban areas."
City-dwellers are particularly rankled that the app provides no native transit directions, instead redirecting users to third-party apps.
Well wouldn't you know it, but Google is reminding people today that it has an alternative. Brian McClendon, vice president of engineering for maps at Google, told the New York Times that an update to Google Maps for Android coming today would include a host of new features, including the ability to synchronize across devices.
If you search for a location on your desktop while signed into Google, that location will pop up as a recent search inside the Google Maps app on your phone, saving you from having to type out the address again on your phone. Previous searches will show up inside the app under the heading "My Places," and users can save various locations using "work," "home" and other labels.
Apple doesn't have a desktop maps application, of course, giving Google an edge over its rival. The Times notes that Google's app is also better at auto-completing partial queries and allowing people to make edits using Google Map Maker.
Still unanswered is whether Google will build a standalone Maps app for iOS. McClendon wouldn't say.
Google could decide against building an iOS app in order to give consumers a compelling reason to choose Android devices over the iPhone. Maps has long been a competitive advantage for Google, and making it Android-only could help keep it way.
But there's a disadvantage, too. Scott Rafer, CEO of mapping application company Lumatic, notes in a blog post that Google relies on its users to get data that is invaluable for improving the maps experience.
"More than half of Google's mobile map usage is going away in the next month or two," Rafer said. "Usage makes maps better a lot faster than software does."
That's a big reason we might see Google Maps back on iOS after all, and soon.
I don't like Google any more than the next person around here. But Apple has had Google Maps on iOS from the very start. They *need* to take that into account before they go ahead and f with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
You've already answered that question. Fix it yourself at the source.
Right! The latter is a valid complaint, the former is not.
Not really. Add it yourself. Who better to do it than a native?
To everyone that is saying well just add it yourself...there that fixed it for you. That is not the point.....they replaced a great app with a substandard one that should still be in beta. At least google has people driving all over the world to map out things for their application. Apple is bigger than Google with a better track record for relasing great products.....you would think if they wanted to hey could have had the world mapped correctly BEFORE they relased a replacement app......
I give Forstall a lot of slack, but it's time to reel it in a bit.
I think the new Maps is a bit of a PR disaster for Apple, but that isn't all bad. Apple responds the quickest and most drastic when the PR is not good. So the worse the press gets the quicker and update will come to fix some of the more glaring issues.
Also, I would be absolutely SHOCKED if Google doesn't wind up releasing a stand alone Google Maps app within the next year, especially after so many people are screaming they want Google Maps back. It'd be stupid for Google to ignore that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
I'm not defending anything, I'm stating facts. You want to add a road, go add it yourself. You want to add new satellite imagery, you can't. So complain about that.
I can complain, the version before, I never had to add, the road down my house was already labeled. Apple screwed up, they should of waited. Admit it, you wont melt, I promise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
I agree with what to say.
However, the agreement between Apple and Google had come to an end.
What exactly were the details of this fabled agreement we keep hearing about?
Was it Apple walking away? Was it Google that didn't want to "renew"? We keep hearing that Apple had no choice. Did they *really* have no choice? Somehow I doubt that.
Google pretty much owns maps. And right behind them... Is Nokia.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
I'm not defending anything, I'm stating facts. You want to add a road, go add it yourself. You want to add new satellite imagery, you can't. So complain about that.
If you take a few minutes and read over your posts of the last half hour I think you will soon see that you are defending :-) maybe you don't realise it!
But actually I was just looking up open street maps, as you suggested, to see if I can edit the things in my area and it is very basic for here in Flekkerøy, Norway... do you think that they use some other provider for this area? Any ideas who that may be?
EDIT: Just looked on the Maps app and it says Norwegian Mapping Authority -
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Thing is, Apple actually comes through when they do this.
That's useful when they create something new. It's not useful when it's a replacement for something that works well. In the latter event, Apple needs to get it (largely) right now, or make it a beta (e.g., Siri), and/or give the user options to use the new and existing.
It'd be like if your OSX suddenly became incompatible with Excel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69
Gosh how did we ever get around pre 2007? Nobody's perfect, stop belly aching and go into a 7-11 and buy a map. It's not that difficult.
You're kidding, right?
Nobody's perfect, go buy a map??
LOL
Not in this market. That "nobody's perfect" excuse can cost tech companies A LOT.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69
Gosh how did we ever get around pre 2007? Nobody's perfect, stop belly aching and go into a 7-11 and buy a map. It's not that difficult.
Gosh how did we ever get around pre 1886? Nobody's perfect, stop belly aching and go into a stable and buy a horse, its not that difficult.
Originally Posted by geekdad
...you would think if they wanted to hey could have had the world mapped correctly BEFORE they relased a replacement app......
So Google Maps is still in beta, according to you, and will be in beta for a few more decades?
Originally Posted by Techstalker
Apple screwed up, they should of waited.
So then neither Apple nor Google should have released any sort of maps until they were done. Neither service should exist now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
I'm not defending anything, I'm stating facts. You want to add a road, go add it yourself.
That is absolutely a defence. You are shifting the onus to get this product right onto the user. It should clearly be upon Apple, since it was Apple who replaced a product which worked well with this new solution.
I'm not sure why you can't see this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
So then neither Apple nor Google should have released any sort of maps until they were done. Neither service should exist now.
Of course not. But if you elect to replace a mature product which users are happy with, you'd better damn hope that your own product is comparable. If it's not, you are going to be under fire. Users don't like upgrades which take away functionality.
1, You've lost Street View on iOS, live with it.
2. You can regain most of what the previous Google Maps offered by using the mobile web version
3. Apple maps will improve over time
4. Google may create an App Store version of Maps including Street View and most certainly ads.
5. If Apple approves the Google app, consumers will have a choice of maps
6. If Apple rejects a Google Maps app for iOS then, well that would not be a good thing for anyone...
Lets face it, Google has done this map stuff pretty well. Put a lot of time and effort into it... notice they don't have 150 billion in the bank.
Although I must say I have had my frustrations with it but really like street view. (note Apple could have done the same, paid USPS or FEDEX etc)
So Apple, just go buy Google and get it over with. /s
Unless Google provides an app (and why should they for iOS users unless it has tons of ads in it?)... going to have to buy a 3rd party app.