The cheap cables do have a functional purpose! They allow you to charge your device. They donot transfer data so you cannot sync or connect to your car stereo.
But they do let you recharge your iphone using your PC at your desk at work without spending big money.
That's a good point! And really, what else do you use them for? Everything is backed up to iCloud now(which I love), so you really only need to transfer data through the cable the first time you setup the phone, right? Use the one that came with the phone and get a cheapy for charging it up at the office or whatever.
You're thinking of the sodas. The fries cost more than that. The do make a killing on the drinks tho, you're right about that. I know the cables cost more than $3.50 - they're probably twice that after all's said and done. Still, a $29 selling price is extortion. Give me the crappy knockoffs all day long. I could care less how aesthetically pleasing the cable is.
Extortion? So they hold a gun to your head to make you buy it?
When will the Apple haters learn that manufacturing cost is totally irrelevant. The market determines what selling price Apple can achieve. If they price it at more than people will pay, they won't sell many (if any at all).
So it proves that Apple is gouging their customers. Costs = $3.50 & Sell = $29.00 that is a pretty steep markup and is simply not justifiable under any circumstances. We have no choice but to pay the ridiculous price since no one can make a true 3rd party cable. Shameful Apple, simply SHAMEFUL.
It's a GUESS. A GUESS! By somebody who's GUESSING. And it's a guess of the value of one part (a chip that nobody knows what it does). Just one part of the cable, which has 2 ends, and a wire between them, and needs to be manufactured and transported. It's also for the $19 cable, not for the $29 adaptor. Oh, and did I mention that it's a GUESS?
A simple charging adapter shouldn't need a chip.
My guess is lightning is "Thunderbolt Lite" and the chip is a converter.
This is not a simple charging cable. I'm not so sure that is an "authentication" chip but remember the male end of the plug is reversible which means that they need to split the connection and rollover the pins so when you flip it 180° it's still the same when you insert it. I'd imagine this is better to do with a chip.
I see total of three chips on the connector. I think it is PCI-e Gen2 to USB2 chip, the reason is Thunderbolt is based on 2 lanes of PCIe Gen2 , in case of lighting it is single lane of PCIe, PCIe plays well as all peripharel Chip in PC world are based on PCIe. So they are all commodity priced. So this chip in the cable is PCIe <=> USB2 , other cables will be PCIe < => HDMI and so on, Also there is authentication MCU onboard and LDO for power for these two chips.
Apple has a captive audience, they have us locked into their proprietary standard and they control everything. Given the sheer volume at which Apple purchases components and the fact that they do not market the cables themselves and enjoy a nice % of any "authorized" made for iPod, iPhone,iPad product their profit margins and greed have no limits.
Extortion? So they hold a gun to your head to make you buy it?
When will the Apple haters learn that manufacturing cost is totally irrelevant. The market determines what selling price Apple can achieve. If they price it at more than people will pay, they won't sell many (if any at all).
Oh, and btw, Apple's not the only one who charges a lot of money for an active cable. Try this one:
So where is all the whining about Apple's competitors overcharging for cables?
People can choose not to buy that micro usb cable, and go with a cheaper cable. With the new Apple connector, people have no choice. If your cable breaks, you HAVE to pay the price Apple sets, there is no "Market" determining the price. Apple can sell the cable for $80 if it felt like it and people have to buy it because there's no competitor that makes the cable at the moment.
1. Apple lightning connector is an “active” component (vs. 30pin is an passive one)
2. Only Apple authorized MFi Manufacturing licensees can buy lightning from AVNET.
3. AVNET is about to accept orders for lightning production.
4. MFi licensees can now buy lightning samples from AVNET (one licensee one set only).
The chip is a requirement!!!! it will not work without it. Currently AVNET has only released test units so any vendor promising delivery quicker then end of September to early October is questionable.
Production is due to ramp up next week and then there is a Holiday the first week in Asia.
How do I know this? I am a seller of these cables. In Apple's defense to the best of my knowledge these cables shouldn't cost $80.00. My suppliers have assured me that the cables can be produced properly with the IC chip at a reasonable cost to still retail at $8.99
I will know better next week but delivery times are beginning to look like mid to late October now. Shame on Apple for not planning better, but I don't think they planned on selling 2 million units in a few hours vs last years 1 million in 24 hours.
I do wish they would have provided a adaptor in the box with the phone. Can't even get a sample of that. Apple's not even shipping them until October. Still couldn't think of a better phone to have! On that note just imagine what we are going to be able to do with this new all digital connector? Change is a pain, but I we are going to see some really neat accessories coming from this change.
Most of you are used to being ripped off. Here in Hong Kong I payed $2 usd for 30 pin connectors before lightning came out. I guarantee that in 2 weeks i'll be paying the same for lightning cables.
Most of you are used to being ripped off. Here in Hong Kong I payed $2 usd for 30 pin connectors before lightning came out. I guarantee that in 2 weeks i'll be paying the same for lightning cables.
It's kind of amazing how online tech blogs have detached themselves entirely from the notion of journalistic integrity, and how quickly hundreds of sites will propagate an unfounded rumor posted by one of their peers.
An "authentication chip"? Seriously?
How about the far more rational explanation that Apple has gone with a solution based on MyDP for Lightning in order to enable USB OTG and HDMI/VGA over a single 8-pin connector? This would be a sensible way to counter Samsung's choice of MHL over a modified USB Micro AB connector.
I would imagine the chips are there to deMUX the USB D+ and D- signals off of the MyDP main link and perform hot plug detect and voltage regulation duties.
It's very possible that the el-cheapo Lightning cables support charging but not sync, seeing as it would be pretty easy to make a cable with VBUS, GND and HPD via simple circuitry.
It would have also been nice if AppleInsider had requested that the person who originally submitted this information finish cleaning the glue off the chip and take a proper photo of it. As it is, it's pretty much impossible to make out the chip markings and perform any reasonable identification. I've seen some claim it's an NXP device and elsewhere it's reported as being from TI. My money would actually be on Analogix as the supplier of the IP and silicon for Lightning.
And if I were to totally armchair reverse engineer this one, the pinout for Lightning goes something like:
It will. They will copy it and charge $2. Chip and all.
Good luck with that and the legal ramifications thereof.
You don't get his point, Tallest. There are no legal ramifications to copying cables in Hong Kong and China. None. There is next to no chance that someone will have an issue with counterfeit (but perfectly functional) cables to the extent that it would make such cables scarce in places like Mong Kok, Wanchai, Sham Shui Po and Windsor House.
You don't get his point, Tallest. There are no legal ramifications to copying cables in Hong Kong and China. None. There is next to no chance that someone will have an issue with counterfeit (but perfectly functional) cables to the extent that it would make such cables scarce in places like Mong Kok, Wanchai, Sham Shui Po and Windsor House.
Why does Apple bother doing business there at all if their stuff can be stolen wholesale with no ramifications (as it IS, and has been for years)?
Why does Apple bother doing business there at all if their stuff can be stolen wholesale with no ramifications (as it IS, and has been for years)?
Simple answer: The benefits outweigh the drawbacks.
If Apple didn't sell to China they would still have a huge number of iPhones, just not as many and with Apple making less per unit than selling directly to customers and carriers in China.
Let's remember that Apple has to design these cables and that the new Lightening cable is much complex than the previous 30-pin connector. They have a chip that, at the very least, will split and rollover the pins so that it can be reversed. Perhaps it's the phone itself and not the connector/cable that has been improved but I do feel as if it both charges and syncs faster than with previous devices. I wonder how these technically functional cables compare to Apple's in durability and performance.
Also, when you can still someone's IP so easily you have to factor in these costs into the product so when people claim that something is too expensive which is why they bought the knock off they are only helping to keep the original at a higher price, not reduce it. They could also irrevocably hurt the bottom line of the original they so desire, especially if it's an appearance that is the primary factor for its success, like with LV bags (not saying that LV is irrevocably hurt by all the knock offs only that they are an appearance based product unlike an iPhone KIRF that will be an inferior OS and HW under the surface regardless of how great it looks on the surface).
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by sportytoes
The cheap cables do have a functional purpose! They allow you to charge your device. They donot transfer data so you cannot sync or connect to your car stereo.
But they do let you recharge your iphone using your PC at your desk at work without spending big money.
That's a good point! And really, what else do you use them for? Everything is backed up to iCloud now(which I love), so you really only need to transfer data through the cable the first time you setup the phone, right? Use the one that came with the phone and get a cheapy for charging it up at the office or whatever.
Extortion? So they hold a gun to your head to make you buy it?
When will the Apple haters learn that manufacturing cost is totally irrelevant. The market determines what selling price Apple can achieve. If they price it at more than people will pay, they won't sell many (if any at all).
Oh, and btw, Apple's not the only one who charges a lot of money for an active cable. Try this one:
http://www.amazon.com/Power-WPL009-Flashing-Worldwide-shiping/dp/B009A6VOU0/ref=sr_1_25?s=mobile&ie=UTF8&qid=1348268644&sr=1-25&keywords=usb+cable+micro
So where is all the whining about Apple's competitors overcharging for cables?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaptorOO7
So it proves that Apple is gouging their customers. Costs = $3.50 & Sell = $29.00 that is a pretty steep markup and is simply not justifiable under any circumstances. We have no choice but to pay the ridiculous price since no one can make a true 3rd party cable. Shameful Apple, simply SHAMEFUL.
It's a GUESS. A GUESS! By somebody who's GUESSING. And it's a guess of the value of one part (a chip that nobody knows what it does). Just one part of the cable, which has 2 ends, and a wire between them, and needs to be manufactured and transported. It's also for the $19 cable, not for the $29 adaptor. Oh, and did I mention that it's a GUESS?
This is not a simple charging cable. I'm not so sure that is an "authentication" chip but remember the male end of the plug is reversible which means that they need to split the connection and rollover the pins so when you flip it 180° it's still the same when you insert it. I'd imagine this is better to do with a chip.
I see total of three chips on the connector. I think it is PCI-e Gen2 to USB2 chip, the reason is Thunderbolt is based on 2 lanes of PCIe Gen2 , in case of lighting it is single lane of PCIe, PCIe plays well as all peripharel Chip in PC world are based on PCIe. So they are all commodity priced. So this chip in the cable is PCIe <=> USB2 , other cables will be PCIe < => HDMI and so on, Also there is authentication MCU onboard and LDO for power for these two chips.
Apple has a captive audience, they have us locked into their proprietary standard and they control everything. Given the sheer volume at which Apple purchases components and the fact that they do not market the cables themselves and enjoy a nice % of any "authorized" made for iPod, iPhone,iPad product their profit margins and greed have no limits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
Extortion? So they hold a gun to your head to make you buy it?
When will the Apple haters learn that manufacturing cost is totally irrelevant. The market determines what selling price Apple can achieve. If they price it at more than people will pay, they won't sell many (if any at all).
Oh, and btw, Apple's not the only one who charges a lot of money for an active cable. Try this one:
http://www.amazon.com/Power-WPL009-Flashing-Worldwide-shiping/dp/B009A6VOU0/ref=sr_1_25?s=mobile&ie=UTF8&qid=1348268644&sr=1-25&keywords=usb+cable+micro
So where is all the whining about Apple's competitors overcharging for cables?
People can choose not to buy that micro usb cable, and go with a cheaper cable. With the new Apple connector, people have no choice. If your cable breaks, you HAVE to pay the price Apple sets, there is no "Market" determining the price. Apple can sell the cable for $80 if it felt like it and people have to buy it because there's no competitor that makes the cable at the moment.
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Straight from my supplier:
1. Apple lightning connector is an “active” component (vs. 30pin is an passive one)
2. Only Apple authorized MFi Manufacturing licensees can buy lightning from AVNET.
3. AVNET is about to accept orders for lightning production.
4. MFi licensees can now buy lightning samples from AVNET (one licensee one set only).
The chip is a requirement!!!! it will not work without it. Currently AVNET has only released test units so any vendor promising delivery quicker then end of September to early October is questionable.
Production is due to ramp up next week and then there is a Holiday the first week in Asia.
How do I know this? I am a seller of these cables. In Apple's defense to the best of my knowledge these cables shouldn't cost $80.00. My suppliers have assured me that the cables can be produced properly with the IC chip at a reasonable cost to still retail at $8.99
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009ATOZTE/ref=cm_sw_r_tw_myi?m=A1VVVCFMK6UD9X
I will know better next week but delivery times are beginning to look like mid to late October now. Shame on Apple for not planning better, but I don't think they planned on selling 2 million units in a few hours vs last years 1 million in 24 hours.
I do wish they would have provided a adaptor in the box with the phone. Can't even get a sample of that. Apple's not even shipping them until October. Still couldn't think of a better phone to have! On that note just imagine what we are going to be able to do with this new all digital connector? Change is a pain, but I we are going to see some really neat accessories coming from this change.
Originally Posted by Rango98
How do I know this? I am a seller of these cables. In Apple's defense to the best of my knowledge these cables shouldn't cost $80.00.
Good. And sorry, seller, but I'll trust Apple's cables over generic ones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_128
Wow! $3.50 to make, and they charge $19.00 for it. That's an 80% profit.
As someone else previously pointed out, component cost is only part of the total product cost.
Depending on the product, it might anywhere from 90% to 2% of the final cost. (Highly-scientific WAG applied to produce the answer.)
Originally Posted by Lerxt
Most of you are used to being ripped off. Here in Hong Kong I payed $2 usd for 30 pin connectors before lightning came out. I guarantee that in 2 weeks i'll be paying the same for lightning cables.
Enjoy paying for something that won't work.
Standard Micro USB connector = $1 in ebay
Lightning connector = $39
http://store.apple.com/us/product/MD824ZM/A/lightning-to-30-pin-adapter-02-m?fnode=3a
LOL
all the poor iSheep getting milked again and again.
No wonder why Apple is the richest company in the world.
Originally Posted by Lerxt
It will. They will copy it and charge $2. Chip and all.
Good luck with that and the legal ramifications thereof.
It's kind of amazing how online tech blogs have detached themselves entirely from the notion of journalistic integrity, and how quickly hundreds of sites will propagate an unfounded rumor posted by one of their peers.
An "authentication chip"? Seriously?
How about the far more rational explanation that Apple has gone with a solution based on MyDP for Lightning in order to enable USB OTG and HDMI/VGA over a single 8-pin connector? This would be a sensible way to counter Samsung's choice of MHL over a modified USB Micro AB connector.
I would imagine the chips are there to deMUX the USB D+ and D- signals off of the MyDP main link and perform hot plug detect and voltage regulation duties.
It's very possible that the el-cheapo Lightning cables support charging but not sync, seeing as it would be pretty easy to make a cable with VBUS, GND and HPD via simple circuitry.
It would have also been nice if AppleInsider had requested that the person who originally submitted this information finish cleaning the glue off the chip and take a proper photo of it. As it is, it's pretty much impossible to make out the chip markings and perform any reasonable identification. I've seen some claim it's an NXP device and elsewhere it's reported as being from TI. My money would actually be on Analogix as the supplier of the IP and silicon for Lightning.
And if I were to totally armchair reverse engineer this one, the pinout for Lightning goes something like:
Shield
1 C-Wire / Aux+
2 Aux-
3 VBUS
4 HPD
5 GND
6 Main Link Tx+
7 Main Link TX-
8 System Clock
Shield
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Originally Posted by Lerxt
It will. They will copy it and charge $2. Chip and all.
Good luck with that and the legal ramifications thereof.
You don't get his point, Tallest. There are no legal ramifications to copying cables in Hong Kong and China. None. There is next to no chance that someone will have an issue with counterfeit (but perfectly functional) cables to the extent that it would make such cables scarce in places like Mong Kok, Wanchai, Sham Shui Po and Windsor House.
Originally Posted by tonton
You don't get his point, Tallest. There are no legal ramifications to copying cables in Hong Kong and China. None. There is next to no chance that someone will have an issue with counterfeit (but perfectly functional) cables to the extent that it would make such cables scarce in places like Mong Kok, Wanchai, Sham Shui Po and Windsor House.
Why does Apple bother doing business there at all if their stuff can be stolen wholesale with no ramifications (as it IS, and has been for years)?
Simple answer: The benefits outweigh the drawbacks.
If Apple didn't sell to China they would still have a huge number of iPhones, just not as many and with Apple making less per unit than selling directly to customers and carriers in China.
Let's remember that Apple has to design these cables and that the new Lightening cable is much complex than the previous 30-pin connector. They have a chip that, at the very least, will split and rollover the pins so that it can be reversed. Perhaps it's the phone itself and not the connector/cable that has been improved but I do feel as if it both charges and syncs faster than with previous devices. I wonder how these technically functional cables compare to Apple's in durability and performance.
Also, when you can still someone's IP so easily you have to factor in these costs into the product so when people claim that something is too expensive which is why they bought the knock off they are only helping to keep the original at a higher price, not reduce it. They could also irrevocably hurt the bottom line of the original they so desire, especially if it's an appearance that is the primary factor for its success, like with LV bags (not saying that LV is irrevocably hurt by all the knock offs only that they are an appearance based product unlike an iPhone KIRF that will be an inferior OS and HW under the surface regardless of how great it looks on the surface).